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[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Blue,

 

I just told Sudo that this should be relegated to PM as it's tangential to the thread's point. 

[Sudo Krenton 243]

I'm fine with making a group PM of this, if @Steel Accord is fine with it.... and it is deemed of substantial interest.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I'm fine with making a group PM of this, if @Steel Accord is fine with it.... and it is deemed of substantial interest.

 

Ehhh I don't know. I'm sure it's not the intention, but I'm getting the feeling of being put on trial.

[Sudo Krenton 243]

 

 

Ehhh I don't know. I'm sure it's not the intention, but I'm getting the feeling of being put on trial.

 

Well, now that you say that, I wasn't going for a mass PM for the sake of trial... though now I realize the err of me mentioning that as a possibility.

 

For record though, the PM between Steel and I isn't trying to prove him wrong or put him on trial. It is merely for the sake of learning more about his ideas on the subject. 

[AlbaTross 1,586]

I'm a bit worried about a friend of mine. He was once a Christian but he no longer believes that God created heaven and the earth. He hasn't been to church in a while and has immersed himself in scientific studies. He's adamant that it has been proven that God did not create the universe, but I know that unless he has information that the top scientists in the world don't have that is beyond false. I fear the enemy has gotten hold of him. I suppose all I can do is pray that he will find his way back to the Kingdom of God one day as I don't believe that a relationship with God is something that can be forced on someone(yeah, I've never been good at this evangelism thing my church is pretty big on). I wish he could truly know how great a relationship with God is, but I guess that's something I'll have to circle in prayer. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?

[Sudo Krenton 243]

Well, remember. Religion isn't necessarily here to prove how things were made. That's what science is here to do. What religion is here for is to give spiritual guidance, to meet our spiritual needs. That is something that which science cannot do. I can't really say more than this at the moment. PM is always available if you need help in the future. I'm sure others here have some input as well.

 

I would like to point this out: http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

 

Around 75% of the US is of some religion, that's saying something. However, that will probably change with the coming of the 501.c.3 amendments due to the marriage equality issues.

 

Before Columbus and all the people came over to the US, the Indians already had a form of religion set up with their gods. Almost anywhere in the world... no matter how secluded, you can practically find someone who has someone they look to as a god... in some religion. This would give in logical reasoning that there is "someone(s)" that exists that take charge over us. Yes, there are those that believe that it was just spread around and just a notion. However, with the Indians and their lack of contact and lack of world progress with the Eastern world to have a religion of their own.... that would make it highly plausible that it is in man's natural self that there is some higher power.(I'm probably contradicting myself to my questions with Buddhism xD).

Edited July 14, 2015 by Sudo Krenton

[AlbaTross 1,586]

Well, remember. Religion isn't necessarily here to prove how things were made. That's what science is here to do. What religion is here for is to give spiritual guidance, to meet our spiritual needs. That is something that which science cannot do. I can't really say more than this at the moment. PM is always available if you need help in the future. I'm sure others here have some input as well.

Thanks. I'll wait and see what other people have to say for now, but I might decide to take you up on that offer.

 

I disagree that science has the proof people claim it does though. I believe it's useful in explaining things like how our world and the surrounding universe work, and even how old it is(I don't actually believe the earth is 6000 years old), but as far as I know, no one has been able to determine what happened before the big bang, which I actually don't disbelieve in. I think there's plenty of opening to believe that God set it in motion, especially since I learned that the Hebrew word for day is actually the same word they use for era, which could just as well mean that God created the world in six eras. Still, you're right that I don't go to God for proof of anything, since that would defeat the purpose of faith. I can't prove God is behind the creation of the universe, just that it hasn't been disproven. I go to God for answers this world and the knowledge of man can't provide.

[Sudo Krenton 243]

 

 

I disagree that science has the proof people claim it does though. I believe it's useful in explaining things like how our world and the surrounding universe work, and even how old it is(I don't actually believe the earth is 6000 years old), but as far as I know, no one has been able to determine what happened before the big bang, which I actually don't disbelieve in. I think there's plenty of opening to believe that God set it in motion, especially since I learned that the Hebrew word for day is actually the same word they use for era, which could just as well mean that God created the world in six eras. Still, you're right that I don't go to God for proof of anything, since that would defeat the purpose of faith. I can't prove God is behind the creation of the universe, just that it hasn't been disproven. I go to God for answers this world and the knowledge of man can't provide.

 

It's hard to argue with facts when they are pretty obvious in science  Yes, millions have been wrong before with hypotheses(world is flat) but they hadn't been tested in full. Again, science and only give worldly, tangible proof. Whether we like it or not, what science has proven must be taken for granted. Science barely knows anything about what our world is (that being the cosmos etc.)... If I remember correctly from an article, it's estimated to know less than 10% of the universe. To be honest, with the creation story, not that I'm saying the Bible is wrong(that would be wrong for me to say so) but people, as you mentioned, usually refer to it as 6 days rather than eras. But what time is this? God's time, our time? God didn't create the sun and moon until the 4th day. Was this in an instant? Just my input.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I'm a creationist to the extent that the Bible it correct, but I am not stuck to the 24 hours as a day portion. I am also a more recent evolutionist, as it would seem fit to match the proof given by science(also what more recently the Catholic church... my faith... has deemed as being "ok").... I still have doubts on it, but it would be logical in my opinion as to why some things are now compared to hundreds of years ago.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@,

 

Well think of it this way at it's most simplest. If all your concerned with is the what, then science is the perfect tool. However, science can't tell you "the why?" The greater purpose of the universe and intelligence.

[Lexamena 391]

I'm a bit worried about a friend of mine. He was once a Christian but he no longer believes that God created heaven and the earth. He hasn't been to church in a while and has immersed himself in scientific studies. He's adamant that it has been proven that God did not create the universe, but I know that unless he has information that the top scientists in the world don't have that is beyond false. I fear the enemy has gotten hold of him. I suppose all I can do is pray that he will find his way back to the Kingdom of God one day as I don't believe that a relationship with God is something that can be forced on someone(yeah, I've never been good at this evangelism thing my church is pretty big on). I wish he could truly know how great a relationship with God is, but I guess that's something I'll have to circle in prayer. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?

The best thing you can do is be a witness to him as much as you think is appropriate and most of all, pray for him. Of course you must realize that it is in Gods hands and when He feels it is the right time to work within your friends heart, He will. Have faith!

[Sudo Krenton 243]

Well, even with religion, some things are left unexplained, or more as just mysteries. i.e."Why am I here, vs. another person?" We could say, "because God has a purpose for you." But then we would be left asking, "what is this purpose." Only God knows the true purpose.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Sudo Krenton

[Steel Accord 6,660]

The best thing you can do is be a witness to him as much as you think is appropriate and most of all, pray for him. Of course you must realize that it is in Gods hands and when He feels it is the right time to work within your friends heart, He will. Have faith!

 

That's a hard pill to swallow for many and I would not suggest pitching it that way.

[AlbaTross 1,586]

@,

 

Well think of it this way at it's most simplest. If all your concerned with is the what, then science is the perfect tool. However, science can't tell you "the why?" The greater purpose of the universe and intelligence.

Well said. I don't think I could have put it so eloquently. As I said before, I have no plans on forcing my faith on others largely because I had to come to God on my own terms and not because my family made me, but I came to God because he has answered a few of my why questions.

The best thing you can do is be a witness to him as much as you think is appropriate and most of all, pray for him. Of course you must realize that it is in Gods hands and when He feels it is the right time to work within your friends heart, He will. Have faith!

Thanks. I think Daniel is my favourite biblical figure other than Jesus, just because he has such a strong unwavering faith, so I should follow his example and leave everything in God's hands.

[Sudo Krenton 243]

Actually, being a witness to him as much as possible would probably be anti-climatic, and probably make him more obstinate. That's just my input, I don't know. It really depends on the person.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Well said. I don't think I could have put it so eloquently. As I said before, I have no plans on forcing my faith on others largely because I had to come to God on my own terms and not because my family made me, but I came to God because he has answered a few of my why questions.

 

See, you said it right there. One must come to faith on their own.

[AlbaTross 1,586]

See, you said it right there. One must come to faith on their own.

Yeah, that's why I don't plan on forcing my views on my friend. I'm not even planning on having a theological debate with him. That's something I'll leave up to God.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Yeah, that's why I don't plan on forcing my views on my friend. I'm not even planning on having a theological debate with him. That's something I'll leave up to God.

 

That being said, I would personally defend my faith if he attacks it.

Actually, being a witness to him as much as possible would probably be anti-climatic, and probably make him more obstinate. That's just my input, I don't know. It really depends on the person.

 

That reminds me of a joke.

 

A person is standing atop their house in a flood. The waters are rising and they can't swim. A boat comes to them.

 

"No thanks, God will save me." So they leave. Another boat comes.

 

"No thanks, God will save me." So they leave. As the water is up to their chest a helicopter comes.

 

"No thanks, God will save me!" The person ends up drowning. In Heaven, the person asks God.

 

"God, why didn't you save me?"

 

To which God says, "I sent ya TWO BOATS AND A HELICOPTER!"

Edited July 14, 2015 by Steel Accord

[AlbaTross 1,586]

That being said, I would personally defend my faith if he attacks it.

 

 

That reminds me of a joke.

 

A person is standing atop their house in a flood. The waters are rising and they can't swim. A boat comes to them.

 

"No thanks, God will save me." So they leave. Another boat comes.

 

"No thanks, God will save me." So they leave. As the water is up to their chest a helicopter comes.

 

"No thanks, God will save me!" The person ends up drowning. In Heaven, the person asks God.

 

"God, why didn't you save me?"

 

To which God says, "I sent ya TWO BOATS AND A HELICOPTER!"

Yeah, I have no difficulty defending my faith if need be. I've heard two versions of that joke, but that one is the better one. Another is one where a woman hears God telling her one morning that he will be stopping by her house that day. I don't remember how it goes word for word, but a few people in need come by her house seeking shelter including a hobo and a pregnant woman and one other person but she turns them away saying that God is coming so she can't have company. She waits all day and he doesn't show, so she asks "why didn't you come?" God responds, "what are you talking about? I came by three times today and you turned me away each time".

[Lexamena 391]

That's a hard pill to swallow for many and I would not suggest pitching it that way.

Interesting. Why do you say that?

[starshine wonder 79]

I've seen that joke before. The second one is sadder though....

 

Tross, if I may add my two bits, as it where... The best thing you can do, apart from pray (obvious), is to just love him with the love that God gives you. Our lives are called to be shining lights in the darkness that draw people in, even on bad days It's hard when that happens, I know, and the best thing to do is give him to Daddy and keep praying   

[AlbaTross 1,586]

I've seen that joke before. The second one is sadder though....

 

Tross, if I may add my two bits, as it where... The best thing you can do, apart from pray (obvious), is to just love him with the love that God gives you. Our lives are called to be shining lights in the darkness that draw people in, even on bad days It's hard when that happens, I know, and the best thing to do is give him to Daddy and keep praying

 

I'm good at that. Thanks for the advice. Edited July 14, 2015 by Tross

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Interesting. Why do you say that?

 

Because you are asking someone who's skeptical of the very existence of such a divinity to pray and have faith, at all and in, something they're less likely to think is even real. Like some above, I'm of the mind the better Christian is the one who evangelizes through action, but when one must speak, you can't talk to them like they are a faith filled Christian. You have to put yourself in their shoes.

[starshine wonder 79]

steel, you may have read that post wrong.... Lexa was talking to tross.

[Lexamena 391]

Because you are asking someone who's skeptical of the very existence of such a divinity to pray and have faith, at all and in, something they're less likely to think is even real. Like some above, I'm of the mind the better Christian is the one who evangelizes through action, but when one must speak, you can't talk to them like they are a faith filled Christian. You have to put yourself in their shoes.

Oooh i see. Well my intention was for the person asking to be the one to pray and have faith(and be a witness if the friend has questions etc), which, my perception of that individual was that he or she was not in question about their own faith, only their friend's situation. Maybe i read the post wrong? I can see that just 'having faith and praying' can be a hard thing to do but sometimes its the only thing a person can do. And prayer is powerful.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Oooh i see. Well my intention was for the person asking to be the one to pray and have faith(and be a witness if the friend has questions etc), which, my perception of that individual was that he or she was not in question about their own faith, only their friend's situation. Maybe i read the post wrong? I can see that just 'having faith and praying' can be a hard thing to do but sometimes its the only thing a person can do. And prayer is powerful.

 

No I was the one mistaken. Of course telling a person of faith to pray, they'll at least take it under better consul than someone not of faith. Even still though, I've always held true to the notion of "God helps those who help themselves." By all means pray, but you have to meet God halfway.