Is Sunset Shimmer the Worst Major Villain?

[tlcbonaparte 15]

Something tells me that Sauron is not a villain you can just have a rated Y Villain based off him in only 40 minutes. Sombra might been better off based off the Empreror from Star Wars. Doesn't talk much and stays in the shadows but corrupts good guys and makes them do stuff for them. Perhabs hes the one who turned Luna into NMM.

So defeating Shining Armor is nothing? Trying to eat Spike is nothing? Heck look at this gif

From the looks of it Sombra activated that No teleportations crystal trap by himself. Thats pretty cool.

 

You know if you replace Sombra with a very powerful wild animal, the story would be the same. Sure those deeds are cool but the person behind them are still no less dull. The fact is Sombra has no personality, he is the embodiment of a series of expositions meant to move the plot along. SS may not be a good villain, but at least we know what kind of villain she is, and she is much better than a mindless monster.

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[Mywas 687]

You know if you replace Sombra with a very powerful wild animal, the story would be the same. Sure those deeds are cool but the person behind them are still no less dull. The fact is Sombra has no personality, he is the embodiment of a series of expositions meant to move the plot along. SS may not be a good villain, but at least we know what kind of villain she is, and she is much better than a mindless monster.

>She is much better than a mindless monster

No you are wrong on that one. Sure Sombra has no personality but it doesn't mean that hes a weak villain.

This guy has no personality either but DBZ fans think he is one of the greatest villains of all time.

She is basicly the most popular horror movie villain and yet she has no personality.

He is the most scary disney villain yet barely has a personality.

 

A Demon who just goes straight into the action is a better villain than a Villain with a bad plan, motive and lame personality.

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

You know if you replace Sombra with a very powerful wild animal, the story would be the same. Sure those deeds are cool but the person behind them are still no less dull. The fact is Sombra has no personality, he is the embodiment of a series of expositions meant to move the plot along. SS may not be a good villain, but at least we know what kind of villain she is, and she is much better than a mindless monster.

 

Funny, i was thinking the same about Sunset, if you replace her with Diamond Tiara or some other bullies, i could not tell the difference.

But no, Sombra is not a mindless monster, his traps, you know? Those who could have trapped TS more than once without Spike help?

Sunset was defeated by her own stupidity and a dumb deus ex crap device, Sombra was defeated by sheer luck.

[#1 Flutterfan 174]

>She is much better than a mindless monster

No you are wrong on that one. Sure Sombra has no personality but it doesn't mean that hes a weak villain.

This guy has no personality either but DBZ fans think he is one of the greatest villains of all time.

Okay, I'm going off a tangent here just to explain why Broly's not the best villain of all time and what the reason for him being "The best of all time" is and why it's still a stupid reason; on top of this--it'll also explain why Sombra's a tool.

 

Broly's ridiculous powerlevel was only attributed to the fact that he "was born with this power" and that "he gets stronger over time." Well--so does Goku and Vegeta, and we don't see them harboring this power, why? They don't because Broly is unrestrained only due to the fact that he could not control his emotions (specifically his rage). Does this sound like anyone? I think so--anyway, Broly became a super saiyan well before Goku and Vegeta had (we can assume this, and most people would agree) and on top of that we hear a few issues in Broly's level of strength. The first is that he can wipe a galaxy out in one hit (no, he can't); the next is that he destroyed a whole galaxy (no; he attacked it, Goku goes to it) and thirdly that he has no power level limit (he does).

 

The first movie we see a few things, we see Broly and we see various super saiyans, we can inherintely think that Broly's the strongest in this movie, which he is. He seriously outclasses every single warrior on the Z-side. Now, you say that Sombra's better because he's mindless/not weak. The other poster said that it's better than a mindless monster and I can prove that they're right.

 

You say that Broly is one of the greatest villains of all time--based on "DBZ fans" but here's the issue with that:

 

Frieza, while he was "weaker" than Broly, still had a better plot behind his reason. Frieza was a part of a race that collected planets and he was a slave trader by nature. 

 

Cell, he was bred to destroy the Z-warriors so his reason for fighting is explained through that.

 

Buu was made FOR destruction--ended up losing that will to destroy when absorbing a Kai; in turn when the Evil and Good nature of Buu split apart you had Super Buu who was a very intelligent and logical creature (less controlled by rage) and then you had the PURE Evil Kid Buu who was ruled by nothing but rage (Very similar to Broly) what is his story? Besides being bred for the destruction of the universe, that's all he needed.

 

Broly's story? He was born. Goku cried next to him. And he became upset. And since then he's always hated that cry, and everything about Goku, and just raged.

 

Seriously. What's a better story? Frieza had more depth, Piccolo had more depth, Tien had more depth.

 

Toei just wanted a reason to make "The Legendary super saiyan" and they did a terrible job making Broly the one.

 

Sombra may be stronger innately but that doesn't make him a better villain. We see that Frieza is a better villain innately than Broly, and he's better than Piccolo; however is he better than Cell or Buu? It depends on what you want the reason to be. 

 

Overall--personality DOES go a long way. And being able to say more than "MAUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH AHAHHHHHHAHAHAAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA MUAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MAUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MAWAWAWAWAWAW" and "KAKAARRRROOOOOOT" is a plus.

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

Funny, i was thinking the same about Sunset, if you replace her with Diamond Tiara or some other bullies, i could not tell the difference.

But no, Sombra is not a mindless monster, his traps, you know? Those who could have trapped TS more than once without Spike help?

Sunset was defeated by her own stupidity and a dumb deus ex crap device, Sombra was defeated by sheer luck.

 

There is a significant difference between your analogy and mine. Mine shows Sombra has no actual personality, much like a wild beast. Yours just shows there is another pony with similar personality, which actually makes my point, because you admit SS has a personality. I never claimed she was a good villain, I simply think she is better than Sombra who has absolutely no personality.

 

About Sombra not being mindless, I admit I misspoke there. He's not mindless, he can think, but he is dull. So let's say he is dull, uninspiring, a set piece meant to move the plot. How is that?

[Mywas 687]

There is a significant difference between your analogy and mine. Mine shows Sombra has no actual personality, much like a wild beast. Yours just shows there is another pony with similar personality, which actually makes my point, because you admit SS has a personality. I never claimed she was a good villain, I simply think she is better than Sombra who has absolutely no personality.

 

About Sombra not being mindless, I admit I misspoke there. He's not mindless, he can think, but he is dull. So let's say he is dull, uninspiring, a set piece meant to move the plot. How is that?

And what makes you think that a personality makes a villain?

Like I said, Broly, Janemba, The Lich, Sauron, The Reapers, Darth Maul, Ganondorf all have as much as personality as King Sombra.

And he does have HINTS at a personality, he is possessive of the crystal ponies as shown when two crystal mares try to run away and he stops them. He is a master planner, he is a sadist as he makes tortures the crystal ponies for the heck of it. And more importantly, he is fearless, its shown the moment he is dies as he shows an angry face while all of the other villains were afraid.

[FNGRpony 658]

You know if you replace Sombra with a very powerful wild animal, the story would be the same. Sure those deeds are cool but the person behind them are still no less dull. The fact is Sombra has no personality, he is the embodiment of a series of expositions meant to move the plot along. SS may not be a good villain, but at least we know what kind of villain she is, and she is much better than a mindless monster.

 

Do we as fans put to much stock in a villain with a personalty?  Style over substance?

Does every villain need to be a WWF heal?

If he can't talk smack people feel he doesn't rate.

[Mywas 687]

Do we as fans put to much stock in a villain with a personalty?  Style over substance?

Does every villain need to be a WWF heal?

If he can't talk smack people feel he doesn't rate.

People just expected him to be DiscordNo.2. So when he was shown as a different type of villain People started a hate bandwaggon. It doesn't only happen in this fandom. Some people think Dracula Mihawk from One Piece is a terrible character because he doesn't joke around as much as his friend Shanks does.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

There is a significant difference between your analogy and mine. Mine shows Sombra has no actual personality, much like a wild beast. Yours just shows there is another pony with similar personality, which actually makes my point, because you admit SS has a personality. I never claimed she was a good villain, I simply think she is better than Sombra who has absolutely no personality.

 

About Sombra not being mindless, I admit I misspoke there. He's not mindless, he can think, but he is dull. So let's say he is dull, uninspiring, a set piece meant to move the plot. How is that?

 

So being a lame copy of an already make villain for you is having a personality? Being some kind of bully that we already saw at least 3 times is being original? Give me a break.

The only problem of Sombra is that this fanbase got some villains that would talk and boast all around with smart-ass comments. Sombra talk alot less and acted much more than Sunset has done in the movie. He moved the plot so much better than her.

People just expected him to be DiscordNo.2. So when he was shown as a different type of villain People started a hate bandwaggon. It doesn't only happen in this fandom. Some people think Dracula Mihawk from One Piece is a terrible character because he doesn't joke around as much as his friend Shanks does.

 

Exactly, people should stop complaining about his character and count what he has done in the past and in his return.

I guess that people weren't ready for a change of a character "Action > Words" after.

[FNGRpony 658]

well,

Sombra's gimmick is "Look at me i'm cool."  and the cool gimmick has flown sense the happy days.

Seriously a king with no minions.  tell me that's not lame.

 

No he didn't need a mindless army of changelings.  NO HE DIDN't need snips and snails.

 

I think the over all problem is the show simply refuses to build up a legion of evil.  (And don't you dare say kids show, the legion of evil is from the saddest, gooniest cartoon in existence)

[Mywas 687]

well,

Sombra's gimmick is "Look at me i'm cool."  and the cool gimmick has flown sense the happy days.

Seriously a king with no minions.  tell me that's not lame.

 

No he didn't need a mindless army of changelings.  NO HE DIDN't need snips and snails.

 

I think the over all problem is the show simply refuses to build up a legion of evil.  (And don't you dare say kids show, the legion of evil is from the saddest, gooniest cartoon in existence)

*Facepalm*

No, thats not his gimmick. He doesn't do what he does for attention, He does it because he enjoys seeing other suffer, he enjoys seeing others bleed, he enjoys seeing other work untill they drop and die.

 

Also he may not have minions, but he has traps that are so powerfull and smart that Twilight who is the smartest unicorn in the current time barely passed them but thats only because of like 30 small details, take any of them away and Sombra would have won.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

And what makes you think that a personality makes a villain?

Like I said, Broly, Janemba, The Lich, Sauron, The Reapers, Darth Maul, Ganondorf all have as much as personality as King Sombra.

And he does have HINTS at a personality, he is possessive of the crystal ponies as shown when two crystal mares try to run away and he stops them. He is a master planner, he is a sadist as he makes tortures the crystal ponies for the heck of it. And more importantly, he is fearless, its shown the moment he is dies as he shows an angry face while all of the other villains were afraid.

Broly has a rich back story which portray his character. forgive me I don't watch much Dragon Ball movies so I can't comment on Janemba. Sauron's lack of appearance is suppose to make him mysterious, but Peter Jackson's film failed to capture that. Darth Maul is not a good villain, he's not even the main villain, he is a pawn, and he served his purpose as a pawn quite well. Ganondorf has personality, what are you talking about?

 

 

Do we as fans put to much stock in a villain with a personalty?  Style over substance?

Does every villain need to be a WWF heal?

If he can't talk smack people feel he doesn't rate.

This is a TV show, so yes, style is quite important. Substance would be interesting plot? How is a trap that's suppose to keep ponies off the key to his defeat anything but predictable? If you don't approve judging a villain base on his/her personality, I don't see how you can consent to judging the villain base on how powerful he is. Because that's what all the pro Sombra people are saying. He's powerful, so he must be a good villain.

 

So being a lame copy of an already make villain for you is having a personality? Being some kind of bully that we already saw at least 3 times is being original? Give me a break.

The only problem of Sombra is that this fanbase got some villains that would talk and boast all around with smart-ass comments. Sombra talk alot less and acted much more than Sunset has done in the movie. He moved the plot so much better than her.

 

Exactly, people should stop complaining about his character and count what he has done in the past and in his return.

I guess that people weren't ready for a change of a character "Action > Words" after.

 

Why yes, being a copy of something means it is something, just not original. So yes, being a copy of personality = having a personality.

 

The reason why Sombra moves plot better than SS is because that's Sombra's point of being. He is nothing BUT a plot mover.

 

Let me ask you this. If you think villains should be solely judged base on their deeds, do you think heroes should also be solely judged base on deeds? 

[FNGRpony 658]

*Facepalm*

No, thats not his gimmick. He doesn't do what he does for attention, He does it because he enjoys seeing other suffer, he enjoys seeing others bleed, he enjoys seeing other work untill they drop and die.

 

Also he may not have minions, but he has traps that are so powerfull and smart that Twilight who is the smartest unicorn in the current time barely passed them but thats only because of like 30 small details, take any of them away and Sombra would have won.

 

So make up makes crystal ponies suffer?  He was eccentric. 

 

 

you heard me he's eccentric (LOL).

you can't tell me that look isn't done purely for ascetics.

 

cause when i think mascara i think terror lol.

Edited September 27, 2013 by FNGRpony

[Mywas 687]

This is a TV show, so yes, style is quite important. Substance would be interesting plot? How is a trap that's suppose to keep ponies off the key to his defeat anything but predictable? If you don't approve judging a villain base on his/her personality, I don't see how you can consent to judging the villain base on how powerful he is. Because that's what all the pro Sombra people are saying. He's powerful, so he must be a good villain.

 

No, you are once again wrong. No one is saying that Sombra is a better villain because hes more powerful. He is a better villain than Sunset because he actually is threatning. Not to mention that he actually was going to win If it wasn't for Spike, heck if Spike was there when she opened the door he would been trapped with her.

He is not only the smartest villain. But the most scary villain, Because of what he did to the crystal ponies, He broke their spirit, he took away all shreds of hope from their Hearts, He chained them up and took away their freedom. Not only that, but he doesn't even let go, when the princesses tried to defeat him, he pulls a card and takes the empire with them, and erases their memories. When he returned he did not waste any time and went back to the Crystal Ponies, when there was a shield stopping him he did not even stop, he kept on lurking not letting Cadence rest, he attacks Shining Armor and Blocks his Horn so that he cannot help Cadences shield, and when the shield weared off and two crystal ponies tried to run away, he stopped them. His obsession with the crystal ponies is Scary, because he made them so scared that the mere mention of his name makes them freak out. And the most scary thing about it is, Celestia herself said that if the crystal Heart is filled with Hatred and Fear, the same will happen to all of Equestria, maybe even to the princesses themselfs, they will all turn into the state that The Crystal Ponies were in, he may not have a personality, but he has a scary dark presence and a bucked up Motivations. to make up for it.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

No, you are once again wrong. No one is saying that Sombra is a better villain because hes more powerful. He is a better villain than Sunset because he actually is threatning. Not to mention that he actually was going to win If it wasn't for Spike, heck if Spike was there when she opened the door he would been trapped with her.

He is not only the smartest villain. But the most scary villain, Because of what he did to the crystal ponies, He broke their spirit, he took away all shreds of hope from their Hearts, He chained them up and took away their freedom. Not only that, but he doesn't even let go, when the princesses tried to defeat him, he pulls a card and takes the empire with them, and erases their memories. When he returned he did not waste any time and went back to the Crystal Ponies, when there was a shield stopping him he did not even stop, he kept on lurking not letting Cadence rest, he attacks Shining Armor and Blocks his Horn so that he cannot help Cadences shield, and when the shield weared off and two crystal ponies tried to run away, he stopped them. His obsession with the crystal ponies is Scary, because he made them so scared that the mere mention of his name makes them freak out. And the most scary thing about it is, Celestia herself said that if the crystal Heart is filled with Hatred and Fear, the same will happen to all of Equestria, maybe even to the princesses themselfs, they will all turn into the state that The Crystal Ponies were in, he may not have a personality, but he has a scary dark presence and a bucked up Motivations. to make up for it.

It's too bad the mark of a good villain is not how well he scares fictional people but how well he scares audiences. Are you scared of Sombra? Do you hate him? I can see you guys are very impressed by what he did, but most of it were expositions spouted during the two parters. I feel nothing about what he did because its presentation was horrible. As for Sunset Shimmer, she is by no means a good villain but I at least hate her because her motives are more fleshed out.

[Mywas 687]

It's too bad the mark of a good villain is not how well he scares fictional people but how well he scares audiences. Are you scared of Sombra? Do you hate him? I can see you guys are very impressed by what he did, but most of it were expositions spouted during the two parters. I feel nothing about what he did because its presentation was horrible. As for Sunset Shimmer, she is by no means a good villain but I at least hate her because her motives are more fleshed out.

Yes, I am scared of him.

This is why, he broke the crystal ponies to the point that he can scare them off even if he isn't around them. Like Sauron in the LOTR movies, hes scary not because of what he does in the movies, but because of what hes gonna do. He was going to turn middle earth into a living hell, and the Valars cant even come and make the save because Middle Earth is no longer powerful enough to handle all of them in the same time.

With Sombra its the same. He was gonna break everyones spirit and maybe even kill some ponies, Celestia said it herself. If fear and hatred takes over then what the empire was when he was ruling will be what all of equestria will turn into. Thats pretty scary.

And if you still don't think hes scary, remember that he was about to eat Spike a baby dragon as he licked his face when he saw him, even if he did not eat him spike would have falled on the edgy crystals Sombra was riding on.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

Well he's not doing it for me. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree. When it comes to feelings there are no right or wrong.

[CornBreadGang 514]

Nah. I've seen worse villains in MLP. Like the Cockatrice. Okay, don't get me wrong here he might not be super duper major, but, the cockatrice was a cool villain, who was actually based on a mythical creature of the same name who turned people to stone if they gazed on its eyes. My problem with it in MLP was the fact of what a sissy it was. Okay, I can understand the stare being scary and all, but it won't reverse the calcification effects of the cockatrice's stare. Just putting that out.

Edited September 27, 2013 by super2379

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Why yes, being a copy of something means it is something, just not original. So yes, being a copy of personality = having a personality.

 

The reason why Sombra moves plot better than SS is because that's Sombra's point of being. He is nothing BUT a plot mover.

 

Let me ask you this. If you think villains should be solely judged base on their deeds, do you think heroes should also be solely judged base on deeds? 

 

You and i have very different ideas of what is having a personality.

Sombra was moving the plot, and is what a GOOD villain would do. The same i can't say with Sunset. The only thing that was moving the movie was the time limit of the portal. If Sombra was at her place he would have manage to take the crown, kill the humane 5 and Twilight Sparkle and conquer the human dimension, and once that he would have taken control of some real army (instead of some houndreds of teenagers) Equestria would have fall too. Sunset was talk and some really dumb plan. Sombra is smart and was many steps further that Twilight.

I REAL VILLAIN must be valuted by what he/she do. It counts to play out very smart plan that give smart characters a hard time solving it. Sunset really didn't do anything really smart, all her plan failed one after an other in a matter of minuts, and when it works it is because the character in EQG were all idiots. Sombra instead, well, What already made a good job explain it why Sombra is much more threathing.

A REAL GOOD VILLAIN must be the above but must also have a good attitude, and being original. And act like a villain.

Really, when it come to think about it Sunset is a bully that take control of a school and only because the people there were idiots who didn't thought to tell this to Celestia. Sombra is A TYRANT who has enslaved A KINGDOM and has done many horrible things.

In the end Sunset is no threatning and neither is smart.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

You and i have very different ideas of what is having a personality.

Sombra was moving the plot, and is what a GOOD villain would do. The same i can't say with Sunset. The only thing that was moving the movie was the time limit of the portal. If Sombra was at her place he would have manage to take the crown, kill the humane 5 and Twilight Sparkle and conquer the human dimension, and once that he would have taken control of some real army (instead of some houndreds of teenagers) Equestria would have fall too. Sunset was talk and some really dumb plan. Sombra is smart and was many steps further that Twilight.

I REAL VILLAIN must be valuted by what he/she do. It counts to play out very smart plan that give smart characters a hard time solving it. Sunset really didn't do anything really smart, all her plan failed one after an other in a matter of minuts, and when it works it is because the character in EQG were all idiots. Sombra instead, well, What already made a good job explain it why Sombra is much more threathing.

A REAL GOOD VILLAIN must be the above but must also have a good attitude, and being original. And act like a villain.

Really, when it come to think about it Sunset is a bully that take control of a school and only because the people there were idiots who didn't thought to tell this to Celestia. Sombra is A TYRANT who has enslaved A KINGDOM and has done many horrible things.

In the end Sunset is no threatning and neither is smart.

 

See you have no way of knowing how smart he is. I can't tell how smart Sombra is because how little of him I know besides his "resume" from the show. In fact I want to know what exactly did he do that makes you think he is very smart? 

 

The mark of a good villain is how much sense his/her action makes. Sombra's action is pretty much nonsense. Why does he torture Crystal Ponies? I don't know, Sunset Shimmer's action makes sense, she wanted power, when Celestia didn't give her the power she wanted, she left to find another way to obtain power. It's a simple premise but at least it's something. 

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[Lunas Husband 2,777]

I cant sit here and say oh my she was the worst! Because she wasn't, sure should could have done more or maybe even tried a little harder but at the end of the day she was not the worst.