"Feeling Pinkie Keen": is it a true controversy?

[BronyPony 575]

 

 

The My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic episode "Feeling Pinkie Keen" has incited some controversy on internet message boards.

 

Since discussion on this topic will contain some spoilers, I'll continue after the jump.

 

The controversy with the episode has to do interpretations of the moral at the end of the episode, which states "..there are wonderful things in this world you just can't explain, but that doesn't necessarily make them any less true. It just means you have to choose to believe in them."

 

Some interpret the moral, and the episode, as implying that it's bad to search for explanations for things one doesn't understand. Elisto at the MLP Arena wrote,

"If the moral really were clearly "'tolerance for things you don't understand', even if it seems unrealistic", I'd be fine with that. And it easily could have been, since clearly Pinkie has some sort of weird if unexplained ability. But that doesn't actually seem to be at all what the moral was since since Twilight's shown as being totally cynical and close minded (as opposed to just skeptical) by denying anything's even going on, shot down for even attempting to figure it out, and at the end says she learns to just "have faith". It may not have been intentional, but it all together suggests that trying to understand things isn't valuable!"

MLP News reader Stephen sent me the following message, along the same lines:

"...Twilight is cast in a very simplistic light as being driven by a blinkered agenda to simply disprove Pinkie throughout the entire episode. I feel you missed an opportunity to portray Twilights natural skepticism as being more than just a narrow-mindedness that needs to be overcome by faith....

If a real skeptic ever saw the kind of consistency that Pinkie Pie displayed in her ESP they would ideally be compelled to try to explain it, but not simply to "explain it away". If no explanation is possible that doesn't mean they'd deny the obvious..."

There are also some people who interpreted the moral at the end of the episode as having religious undertones, since the idea of "just 'have faith'", as Elisto put it, is often associated with religion.

 

In responses to comments on her DeviantArt page, Lauren Faust, the show's creator, has said that these interpretations were not the intent of the episode. In response to Jukashi's comment "Personally, as with others, I was a little put off by the "lesson" of the episode, which came off to me as "don't bother trying to understand things"...", Lauren wrote,

"Wow. It's so not what I ever hoped anybody would ever take away from that episode. It's a really awful message and I'd never dream of suggesting it.

 

I'm so disappointed, especially since it's seems to be completely ruining what I thought was one of our funniest episodes.

 

I'm really sorry and if I could have anticipated such a misunderstanding, I would have revised it."

She also wrote,

"From the sounds of it, I really blew it with the letter at the end---- even for people who didn't immediately jump to the conclusion that such a statement could only apply to religion. I wish I could back and clarify it further."

and

"I can't speak for others who worked on this episode, but from my perspective, it's kind of like you said: there are simply phenomenons that are difficult to explain. And I'm of the opinion that "faith" can apply to more things than just religion. For instance: are we alone in the universe or is there life on some other planet somewhere? We don't have convincing evidence that aliens exist, but it takes "faith" to say that's it's not possible at all. I've heard some pretty heated debates from smart people regarding certain cases of cryptozoology. In the end, if there is an idea we explore that leads us to inconclusive answers, we are left with a choice: believe it anyway, reject it, or wait for more answers.

 

Obviously rather deep for our audience, I know. And obviously up to lots and lots of interpretation. Maybe it was a mistake. Honestly, we started the process with the concept of Pinkie having that old fashioned cliche "knee's achey, it's gonna rain," Twilight not buying it and the humor we thought came out of that."

While it is nice to know that the intent of the moral was good, it's unfortunate that it wasn't more clear, and allowed negative interpretations. Hopefully future episodes will take more care to prevent any such confusion.

http://www.mylittleponynews.com/2011/02/feeling-pinky-keen-controversy.html

 

I just find it ridiculous that bronies would get angry at Faust for this episode. For one thing, it wasn't even about religion. Another thing is if it were about religion people shouldn't go all negative and start hating someone. If they don't like the episode, then they shouldn't start sending death threats(not that they did) because someone was promoting a religious outlook.

 

Another thing to point out is how much I just am annoyed about these type of bronies. I mean, the original message could even apply to religion: If your friend believes in God, then don't question it and let them believe in God.

 

Another thing to point out is even many scientists agree that there are things that are unexplained, such as the existence of the Universe. Should they stop looking for more information on our Universe? Of course not, but there are things that are unexplained and must be left to the opinions of the people.

 

I just find it frustrating that if ONE episode is about religion then people go hay wire and everything just goes crazy. I mean, I wouldn't be offended if the episode had the theme of there must be a rational explanation to things, and yet this episode just gets beat up.

 

Sorry about a limited poll. If you would like me to add choices then you can just ask.

Edited August 21, 2013 by BronyPony

[Misty Rose 3,217]

I really just ignored this entire fiasco and watch the episode and enjoy it like normal It's a really good episode, and people ruin it because of the big drama over the moral. There is no need to get in the creator's face over something like this. I'm glad that Lauren responded in a nice way but I would personally hate for people to nitpick over something like the moral. Sure it's important, but you don't need to cause so much drama over it.

 

I didn't even notice anything wrong with the moral the first time I watched the episode. I just enjoyed it laughed at the jokes, and Twilight getting beat up. I personally liked that the writers wanted to give Pinkie something different than just her hyper and random personality. It's like her own superpower This is a great idea that has been tarnished alot from the negative reviews of the moral. Seriously people stop nitpicking so much and just try to enjoy the episode.

[BronyPony 575]

Seriously people stop nitpicking so much and just try to enjoy the episode.

I don't really see how this controversy is important, but that is just me. http://taylorramage.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/christianity-and-my-little-pony-pinkie-pie-and-christian-stereotypes/

 

As presented in this person's essay, people take things either to seriously or aren't tolerant of an idea that may be presented within a show. I just say if you don't like the episode just don't watch it. It is that easy.

 

EDIT: I do like this person's take on it:

 

 

 

Therefore, Twilight’s “conversion” at the end of the episode shouldn’t be taken as replacing faith with science, but rather as making room for science and faith to coexist. Pinkie Pie doesn’t question or protest Twilight’s scientific experiments on her, so in a sense she’s already accommodated science and faith within her understanding. She never tries to discount Twilight’s views; she only tells her what she knows and lets Twilight come to her own conclusions. She doesn’t try to force Twilight to accept without understanding. This is ideally how Christians should share the gospel. Nothing about it should be forced and non-believers should be given the space to discover the truth on their own. So although it’s very easy to read this episode as a religion vs. science debate, I think it’s important to look a little bit beneath the surface. Otherwise, all we’ll see is implications that one is better than the other.

Edited August 21, 2013 by BronyPony

[)O( Scarlet )O( 1,259]

You see, this is one of the things I really despise about the fandom and just people in general. How people always tend to read too much into things like this! I mean, can't they just enjoy it for what it is?

[DubWolf 20,695]

I could see where people get the "religion" aspect from this episode. Like most religions, there isn't hard proof that guarantees the existence of a deity and such, but are believed to be true anyways.

 

I'm not a very critical person. Any Pinkie Pie episode is a good episode. I digress, Derpy dropped a piano on Twilight's head!!!

 

I un-digress. Twilight just kept beating a dead horse (haha!) trying to find an explanation for Pinkie Pie's sixth sense and how they yielded accurate predictions of the near-future. I think if Twilight had a bigger understanding of how pink mares work, she could have eventually (after years and years maybe) found a theory that explains the Pinkie Pie phenomena.

 

But for the sake of the plot line and the fact that the show isn't about the experimentation of Pinkie Pie, they decided that her pinkie sense is just something they'll have to believe is ermm... true.

 

If you can test something you're wondering about, go for it!

 

If it's outside the scope of your understanding, I'd reconsider going any futher.

[BronyPony 575]

I could see where people get the "religion" aspect from this episode. Like most religions, there isn't hard proof that guarantees the existence of a deity and such, but are believed to be true anyways.

 

I'm not a very critical person. Any Pinkie Pie episode is a good episode. I digress, Derpy dropped a piano on Twilight's head!!!

 

I un-digress. Twilight just kept beating a dead horse (haha!) trying to find an explanation for Pinkie Pie's sixth sense and how they yielded accurate predictions of the near-future. I think if Twilight had a bigger understanding of how pink mares work, she could have eventually (after years and years maybe) found a theory that explains the Pinkie Pie phenomena.

 

But for the sake of the plot line and the fact that the show isn't about the experimentation of Pinkie Pie, they decided that her pinkie sense is just something they'll have to believe is ermm... true.

 

If you can test something you're wondering about, go for it!

 

If it's outside the scope of your understanding, I'd reconsider going any futher.

But to recap from the other source talking about the episode, the point was that just because something can't be explained doesn't mean it doesn't exist. For example, if someone dies all the sudden and there is no explanation for it, does it mean the person didn't die? No, it just means that it is unexplained with the information you have.

[Misty Rose 3,217]

I don't really see how this controversy is important, but that is just me. http://taylorramage.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/christianity-and-my-little-pony-pinkie-pie-and-christian-stereotypes/

 

As presented in this person's essay, people take things either to seriously or aren't tolerant of an idea that may be presented within a show. I just say if you don't like the episode just don't watch it. It is that easy.

 

EDIT: I do like this person's take on it:

Exactly! If you don't like something simply ignore it and move on. In my case, I just try to ignore the moral and enjoy the rest of the awesome episode!! For others, don't take things like this too seriously, and don't make a big fuss about it to the creator and writers. It's not their fault because it never was their intention to cause such controversy in the first place.

[Dsanders 5,750]

As fascinating and amusing as this is, in the end I'm just left thinking, "What the hell guys?" Lol

 

Like Pink Mist just explained this is only just another of the many examples of how some of us bronies tend to overlook the simplistic and childishly innocent attributes of an episode and get our rage on with no real reason whatsoever. Just theory's and controversys.

 

The show was funny and Pinkie Pie can do all that crap because she is Pinkie Pie. Get over it you crazy conspiracy bronies.

 

Just enjoy the darn show!

 

I did, and it's one of my favorites.

[Moonlight 7,291]

I don't mind the controversy of the episode, and while the moral was a little odd, it wasn't that big of a deal. I didn't like the episode and it's not because of the moral or anything.

[NavelColt 22,884]

This thread appears to be discussing MLP:FiM in some way, shape or form. Thus, it has been sentenced to Show Discussion.

This is an automatically generated message, by the way.

 

--

 

While this does contain some potential controversy for religion as a topic, as the Debate Pit handbook topic states, anything fandom related still needs to go in Show Discussion or Sugarcuibe, appropriately.

Edited August 21, 2013 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[John 793]

I just find it ridiculous that bronies would get angry at Faust for this episode. For one thing, it wasn't even about religion. Another thing is if it were about religion people shouldn't go all negative and start hating someone. If they don't like the episode, then they shouldn't start sending death threats(not that they did) because someone was promoting a religious outlook.

 

You are absolutely right about this.  First of all, it wasn't about religion specifically in any way, shape or form.  Second of all, even if it was about religion, it doesn't seem like they are promoting any particular denomination of any particular religion, and thus are non-biased and should be accepted.

 

The "moral" of the story was to be able to accept that there are things which you may not be able to explain instead of wasting your time trying to explain them when it serves no real purpose.  Its a message to be humble and accept that, although we are sentient beings, we are limited by the constraints of our senses and minds which prevent us from being able to holistically understand the universe in a state of omniscience.

 

In the end, MLP FIM is Hasbro's franchise.  THEY get to decide what lessons they want to promote through their show, not overgrown intolerant raging atheist pseudo-scientist man-children with no sense of place in the world...

[Freewave 1,145]

Problem i had with this episode is that Pinkie Sense has barely made a reappearance in the show on followup episodes (except for a few shoutouts). Overall I think the biggest issue with the the EP is that in the larger sense it seemed to VALIDATE religion but in reality it was mostly about Twi's inability to handle other people's beliefs or to try to answer the unexplained. Twi wasn't being respectful. In reality it didn't do THAT good a job on having a bigger analogy to real world issues like so many episodes did and in that way i can see why there was a bit of over-analysis on what the writers were trying to convey. Still pretty hilarious w/o the bigger message attached.

[BronyPony 575]

Problem i had with this episode is that Pinkie Sense has barely made a reappearance in the show on followup episodes (except for a few shoutouts). Overall I think the biggest issue with the the EP is that in the larger sense it seemed to VALIDATE religion but in reality it was mostly about Twi's inability to handle other people's beliefs or to try to answer the unexplained. Twi wasn't being respectful. In reality it didn't do THAT good a job on having a bigger analogy to real world issues like so many episodes did and in that way i can see why there was a bit of over-analysis on what the writers were trying to convey. Still pretty hilarious w/o the bigger message attached.

Now days the whole issue of religion is a world "issue" with the debates increasing, especially when talking about moral values.

[Not_A_Replicant 111]

I'd never believe something that I couldn't prove. That's why I like Christianity. God doesn't expect us to follow something blindly. There is plenty of evidence to back up Christianity. I didn't really like the episode's theme though. I liked the episode itself just fine. I just didn't like the theme that well.

[I used to be a stranger 7,994]

People are far too eager to bring up the (nonexistent) dichotomy of faith vs. reason, when in truth the episode was about things you don't understand, but should not begrudge others regarding them. It wasn't even about superstition.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

 

EDIT: I do like this person's take on it:

 

 

That pretty much sums it up for me. I saw it as a message about knowing the difference between healthy skepticism and close mindedness(Twilight was expressing the later because she was denying something she saw right in front her because she couldn't understand it). "Just because you can't yet explain something, doesn't mean it's not real".

[Freewave 1,145]

I'd never believe something that I couldn't prove. That's why I like Christianity. God doesn't expect us to follow something blindly. There is plenty of evidence to back up Christianity. I didn't really like the episode's theme though. I liked the episode itself just fine. I just didn't like the theme that well.

 

And that's why I'm an atheist, because i see the evidence doesn't add up, have seen no proof, and there's logical scientific explanations for many many things (and yet plenty of things that humans still haven't figured out). But the episode and life is not about attacking those things we don't understand but in accepting that others have different views, that we often can't explain some things because we just don't understand them yet, and to keep an open mind and to be willing to be proven wrong if that situation comes up.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I saw it as a message about knowing the difference between healthy skepticism and close mindedness(Twilight was expressing the later because she was denying something she saw right in front her because she couldn't understand it). "Just because you can't yet explain something, doesn't mean it's not real".

 

The episode remind me a lot of X-Files tbh as Mulder (Pinkie) was always ready to believe in the unexplained and Scully (Twilight) was the one who was always having to be convinced in when the unexplained phenomena was sometimes blatantly in her face.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Freewave

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

And that's why I'm an atheist, because i see the evidence doesn't add up, have seen no proof, and there's logical scientific explanations for many many things (and yet plenty of things that humans still haven't figured out). But the episode and life is not about attacking those things we don't understand but in accepting that others have different views, that we often can't explain some things because we just don't understand them yet, and to keep an open mind and to be willing to be proven wrong if that situation comes up.

 

The episode remind me a lot of X-Files tbh as Mulder (Pinkie) was always ready to believe in the unexplained and Scully (Twilight) was the one who was always having to be convinced in when the unexplained phenomena was sometimes blatantly in her face.

 

 

Eeyup, same principal. 

 

Funny story, X-files pretty much codified that character type, the trope for it over on Tvtropes is actually called Agent Scully(and yes Mulder has his own trope as well)

[Music Chart Fan 819]

I wrote many of my thoughts on the episode in response to another topic, which attempted to explain why this episode was not terrible.

 

http://mlpforums.com/topic/41798-this-episode-is-terriblewhy-it-isnt-2-feeling-pinkie-keen/?p=993331

 

For me, this episode is probably second only to "The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000" in terms of being the most frustrating and annoying episode of this show so far.

 

First, there are the problems with the Pinkie sense. I think that the supposed "predictive power" of the Pinkie sense is analogous to the "predictive power" of horoscopes, palm readings, and the like - the predictions made are vague and general enough that any number of coincidental events could be stretched to fit the predictions. Because of this, attempts to disprove any single one of these predictions will probably not work, since they are intentionally vague enough to allow for the predictor to worm his or her way out.

 

For example, if Pinkie's tail twitches, and nothing apparently falls, Twilight could try to say that that is proof that the Pinkie sense is not real, but Pinkie could always say that her tail twitch that time was a false alarm (since Pinkie has the final say on whether her Pinkie sense was activated), that something DID fall somewhere else in Ponyville, that it was a microscopic speck of dust that fell, etc.

 

Twilight could argue that there is no reasonable way for Pinkie to know whether a particular body motion is an activation of the Pinkie sense rather than the body motion being random or caused by some unrelated factor. For example, how could Pinkie know whether an eye flutter is an activation of the Pinkie sense or simply caused by an irritant in the air? Is every instance of an itchy back always an indication of a lucky day, or might some of those instances just be random? However, Pinkie could always counter these questions with some unfalsifiable claim like "I can just tell the difference and I can't explain why." 

 

A better method of disproving the Pinkie sense is to criticize its premise. The claim of the Pinkie sense is that some seemingly random motion of Pinkie's body occurs, followed by some event; therefore, that motion of Pinkie's body predicted the following event. This claim implies a cause-effect relationship: the impending event CAUSES the random motion of Pinkie's body, or the random motion of Pinkie's body CAUSES the impending event. However, the correlation of the event happening after the body motion does NOT imply that one caused the another; that is a logical fallacy. The burden of proof is on Pinkie to come up with a causational mechanism linking the two; otherwise, the default conclusion is that the temporal and spatial proximity of the body motion and following event is coincidental (or that both might be caused by an unaccounted-for third factor).

 

The problem is, Twilight does not logic to disprove the Pinkie sense in this manner. Instead, Twilight is made to look foolish and arrogant by countering Pinkie's claims with absolute pronouncements that are "hilariously" proven wrong time after time through embarrassment and bodily harm to Twilight, which quickly becomes annoying to watch. Twilight also spends her time and effort trying to disprove specific indicators/predictions, which as I stated before, probably wouldn't work anyway. Of course, I think Pinkie is also annoying in her lack of tact toward Twilight's legitimate skepticism (even if Twilight was acting arrogantly) and obliviousness to even the possibility that the Pinkie sense might not be believable.

 

Anadu Kune, on 11 Dec 2012 - 4:56 PM, said:

Why didn't Twilight just Teleport across the gap "rather than taking a leap of faith"?

 

I think a better question would be "Why didn't Twilight take any other action with a higher probability of survival rather than taking a leap of faith?". I think this may just be the stupidest part of the episode (which isn't lacking for stupidity). What possible basis does Pinkie have for telling Twilight to take a leap of faith and she'll be fine? Twilight pretty clearly could not make that jump; even given a head start, she failed to jump to the next platform. Pinkie had no Pinkie sense telling her that Twilight would be fine making the jump, and even if she did, would Pinkie really have enough faith in her Pinkie sense to entrust Twilight's LIFE to it? And why would Twilight trust Pinkie's "faith" more than her own judgment that she couldn't make the jump?

 

I don't think that making the treacherous jump with practically no chance for survival was Twilight's only option of escape. She could have run into the woods and gotten some cover from the trees as she hid and/or tried to sneak away, which I think would have had a higher chance of survival than attempting that jump. Maybe even trying to charge right at/by the hydra (with Twilight's demonstrated good reflexes) would have been a better option.

 

In a realistic scenario (where a swamp bubble wouldn't miraculously act like a trampoline), Pinkie's insistence that Twilight take a "leap of faith" despite Twilight's obvious lack of ability to make the jump would have led to her DEATH. This really put me off of all of the talk about "faith" and "believing" when this talk put Twilight's LIFE at risk.

 

Anadu Kune, on 11 Dec 2012 - 4:56 PM, said:

Can you believe that moral, it promotes uncritical thinking and religion.

 

Let's reproduce the moral of the episode:

 

"Dear Princess Celestia,

 

I am happy to report that I now realize there are wonderful things in this world you just can't explain, but that doesn't necessarily make them any less true. It just means you have to choose to believe in them, and sometimes it takes a friend to show you the way.

 

Always your faithful student,

 

Twilight Sparkle"

 

I think this moral is misleading and incomplete. Just because you personally do not have an explanation for some phenomenon doesn't mean that it isn't true, but it also doesn't mean that you should choose to believe just any explanation of that phenomenon put forth to you. You must still have criteria to evaluate potential explanations for phenomena you don't understand. Maybe any explanation you choose to believe should be based on sound logic and evidence you can understand, or should come from an authority whom you trust has verified that the explanation is based on sound logic and evidence.

 

The Pinkie sense appears to predict future events, and Twilight doesn't understand why. That doesn't mean that the apparent correlation between the two doesn't exist. However, that also doesn't mean that Twilight should choose to believe the explanation that the Pinkie sense really does predict future events. Twilight was legitimately skeptical of that explanation, and not without good reason, yet by the end of the episode, Twilight has seemingly uncritically dropped her skepticism and chosen to just believe in the Pinkie sense. Were all of Twilight's concerns answered? Does this pass the criteria I mentioned above? I was still not convinced of the ability of the Pinkie sense to predict future events, and I don't think Twilight should have been, either.

 

Maybe the moral of this episode was not written with religion in mind, but I can see how it might be applied to justify religion. After all, I think many people would say "I choose to believe in my religion because it explains things that science just can't explain." However, just because a religion may put forth an explanation for things which science can't yet explain doesn't mean that someone should just choose to believe the religious explanation.

 

For example, science can't yet explain the origin of human consciousness, but that doesn't mean that we should choose to believe in the religious explanation that humans have souls. Science can't yet explain what happens to us after we die, but that doesn't mean that we should choose to believe in the religious explanation of an afterlife where we spend eternity in heaven or hell. In both of these cases, I have not seen sufficient logic or evidence to believe in the religious arguments, and so my stance on these issues is "we don't know yet."

 

 

[Scootalove 10,692]

 

I don't get it when people go haywire over an episode and try to put religion into their reasons. That is just totally not necessary because, even if people hated Feeling Pinkie Keen they had a reason for it like the moral nothing else. Sometimes people need to get over something, then just forget about it.

[Fridge 382]

The way I think of the moral is more along the lines of;

 

Sometimes you can't find an explanation for things and must take it as read that, this is how things are.

 

That doesn't mean you should search for the WHY of it, but should just accept that some things are yet to be answered.

It's not just about religion, but science and well... Anything that is to do with the currently unexplainable.

 

As for getting angry, I don't see why anyone should get angry, it's not like it was ordering you to and when I watched that episode I didn't think it was commenting on religion at all.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Fridge

[Pinkieparty 15]

This episode was about having faith in your friends. Not accepting things you can't explain. People are taking this way out of proportion.

[MichaelxXxTrixie 433]

Alright in the instance that it was seriously about religion and all that jazz, well then that'd easily be the worst episode and the worst lesson. I'm not even going to bother explaining.

 

Now for what the moral is being generally interpreted as after lots of thinking, it could mean, "If your friend likes something and you don't understand why, you might as well just believe he likes it." But really? How hard is it to say that? There was some bad-writing on the crews part during that episodes production, I thought it was funny, but in the end it's a really poor example of an episode. 

 

If a little girl really wants to interpret what she learned is the basis of indoctrination, "Don't question this and have faith." A little girl doesn't have the mental capacity I assume to really pull what we've been arguing from the episode, but I doubt any little girls even pull much from any of the lessons on the show. 

 

In short... Anyway you think of it the message is bullshit and poorly written out.

[BronyPony 575]

Alright in the instance that it was seriously about religion and all that jazz, well then that'd easily be the worst episode and the worst lesson. I'm not even going to bother explaining.

 

Now for what the moral is being generally interpreted as after lots of thinking, it could mean, "If your friend likes something and you don't understand why, you might as well just believe he likes it." But really? How hard is it to say that? There was some bad-writing on the crews part during that episodes production, I thought it was funny, but in the end it's a really poor example of an episode. 

 

If a little girl really wants to interpret what she learned is the basis of indoctrination, "Don't question this and have faith." A little girl doesn't have the mental capacity I assume to really pull what we've been arguing from the episode, but I doubt any little girls even pull much from any of the lessons on the show. 

 

In short... Anyway you think of it the message is bullshit and poorly written out.

Thank you for letting us know that you have an opinion. 

Don't become harsh about it. At least respectfully present your opinion. Instead of:

 

 

 

Anyway you think of it the message is bullshit and poorly written out.

It could be:

 

Anyway you think of it the message is not well made and is not written as well as the other episodes.

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,304]

I don't necessarily think it was about religion. It seemed like a strange lesson to me, as "Even if it seems weird believe it" wasn't really good advice, but it might just be something like urging them to believe in Santa or something similar. Yes, Santa is religious, but I couldn't think of a better example.