Is Nightmare Moon Evil?

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Denim&Venom,

Magic=Friendship in the series, so no, Nightmare Moon wouldn't be wielding that.  

 

Nightmare Moon prefers stealth and subterfuge, she hates 1v1 battles. She's too big a serpent to strike directly, she'll do it from the shadows.

 

Again 

Moving the Moon =/= Destructive Power. Nightmare Moon was going for the kill against Twilight(in their charge, she had her horn aimed at Twilight's chest) yet when she fired magic at Twilight, it barely even shook Twilight up. Clearly combat magic isn't her strong suit. Besides, if Discord can be made sick by the Tatzlworm, Nightmare Moon will too.

 

The rest is opinion

[Denim&Venöm 19,075]

@@Denim&Venom,

Magic=Friendship in the series, so no, Nightmare Moon wouldn't be wielding that.  

 

Nightmare Moon prefers stealth and subterfuge, she hates 1v1 battles. She's too big a serpent to strike directly, she'll do it from the shadows.

 

Again 

Moving the Moon =/= Destructive Power. Nightmare Moon was going for the kill against Twilight(in their charge, she had her horn aimed at Twilight's chest) yet when she fired magic at Twilight, it barely even shook Twilight up. Clearly combat magic isn't her strong suit. Besides, if Discord can be made sick by the Tatzlworm, Nightmare Moon will too.

 

The rest is opinion

NMM as a stealth and subterfuge style adversary is a bit of an assumption.

 

Having her horn aimed at Twi's chest is a bit of a stretch. Remember, NMM is much bigger than Twi. She had to lower her aim to even hit Twi. To go for the chest, NMM would practically have to charge looking straight at the ground, and in that scene, she was looking directly at Twi.

 

Not outright decimating Twi  with her magic fits with the rest of my theory that NMM had no intentions to kill.  She has already demonstrated some degree of offensive capability in her dual with Celestia. If the sun god can be knocked down by a shot from NMM, than a mere unicorn would be crippled. 

 

Not even sure if NMM can get sick. Not even sure if she is a living creature like the rest of the ponies. She can transform into either a magic mist or a form of energy. There's a possibility that she can't suffer infliction by conventional means. 

[SharpWit 2,673]

 

 

how do we know that Nightmare Moon can create fire?

If she can create lighting just like that, she can easily use that to light something on fire. She could even stall the bleeding by turning into her smoke cloud form. 

 

Nightmare Moon has no right to the throne, Luna did

Nightmare Moon, physically is Princess Luna. She may be going by a different persona, but she is still Celestia's biological sister, making her next in line. This isn't a democracy, that's how monarchy works. 

 

Nightmare Moon is too arrogant to even keep guards

From what we know, she didn't have guards banished with her to the moon. In my opinion she hired bat ponies as her guards because they are well suited for the night. However, their contract was only for their service to Luna, so when Nightmare Moon was banished, the contract was temporarily on hold, until she were to return. Celestia without enough guards to serve both day and night, created a night unit, that resulted in mass enlistment. Since the contract wasn't canceled, the bat ponies went back to doing normal stuff, keeping a unit ready for Luna's return.

 

Nightmare Moon wouldn't even be able to use the Elements

True, she can't use them. but they are still the most powerful line of defense that equestria has, and maybe one day, there would be another set of six ponies that could wield them under Nightmare Moons guidance.

 

Tatzlworms seem somewhat intelligent and if they find out Nightmare Moon did this

Being a creature with the ability to problem solve or feel, is not the same as being a creature of intelligence. So I doubt they would take the effort to go after someone they don't know, all the way across equestria, even if they are told of what happened. We've already cleared up that Discord, Celestia, and Luna/Nightmare Moon can be killed. So your repetitive mention of the Tatzlworm, isn't necessary.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Denim&Venom,

The fact that Nightmare Moon didn't just teleport in front of the Mane and go "Yeah, you can't go any further" and just scare them away or fight them either means she's an idiot or doesn't like close combat

 

Even if it wasn't Twilight's chest, it would have impaled Twilight's neck at least. 

 

Again, Celestia being a sun god means very little. Twilight, who should know pretty well the limits of Celestia's power, was scared of Parasprites attacking Celestia. It also does help that Nightmare Moon charged up her blast more against Celestia(probably due to not having a time limit)

 

If Discord can get sick, Nightmare Moon can get sick

If she can create lighting just like that, she can easily use that to light something on fire. She could even stall the bleeding by turning into her smoke cloud form. 

 

Nightmare Moon, physically is Princess Luna. She may be going by a different persona, but she is still Celestia's biological sister, making her next in line. This isn't a democracy, that's how monarchy works. 

 

From what we know, she didn't have guards banished with her to the moon. In my opinion she hired bat ponies as her guards because they are well suited for the night. However, their contract was only for their service to Luna, so when Nightmare Moon was banished, the contract was temporarily on hold, until she were to return. Celestia without enough guards to serve both day and night, created a night unit, that resulted in mass enlistment. Since the contract wasn't canceled, the bat ponies went back to doing normal stuff, keeping a unit ready for Luna's return.

 

True, she can't use them. but they are still the most powerful line of defense that equestria has, and maybe one day, there would be another set of six ponies that could wield them under Nightmare Moons guidance.

 

Being a creature with the ability to problem solve or feel, is not the same as being a creature of intelligence. So I doubt they would take the effort to go after someone they don't know, all the way across equestria, even if they are told of what happened. We've already cleared up that Discord, Celestia, and Luna/Nightmare Moon can be killed. So your repetitive mention of the Tatzlworm, isn't necessary.

 

Her lightning that barely even stunned the guards and was unable to even burn wood? That was magic that happened to look like lightning, it was nothing like lightning.

 

If someone says "I am not X, I am Y!" then they are Y in the eyes of the law. Even if this is taken out of account, Luna/Nightmare Moon would be counted as dead by this point, due to being viewed as a legend, which suggests she had her records scrubbed from history.

 

 

 

From what we know, she didn't have guards banished with her to the moon. In my opinion she hired bat ponies as her guards because they are well suited for the night. However, their contract was only for their service to Luna, so when Nightmare Moon was banished, the contract was temporarily on hold, until she were to return. Celestia without enough guards to serve both day and night, created a night unit, that resulted in mass enlistment. Since the contract wasn't canceled, the bat ponies went back to doing normal stuff, keeping a unit ready for Luna's return.

Headcanon, not usable

[Denim&Venöm 19,075]

@@Denim&Venom,

The fact that Nightmare Moon didn't just teleport in front of the Mane and go "Yeah, you can't go any further" and just scare them away or fight them either means she's an idiot or doesn't like close combat

 

Even if it wasn't Twilight's chest, it would have impaled Twilight's neck at least. 

 

Again, Celestia being a sun god means very little. Twilight, who should know pretty well the limits of Celestia's power, was scared of Parasprites attacking Celestia. It also does help that Nightmare Moon charged up her blast more against Celestia(probably due to not having a time limit)

 

If Discord can get sick, Nightmare Moon can get sick

That seems to be where we're getting stuck. NMM either isn't completely callous, she's an idiot, or she's a wimp. 

 

Hoofed animals with horns don't tend to impale their predators and especially not each other. Bucks, Steers and Rams tend to clash their horns with each other as a sign of dominance. The same could be extended to equines had they evolved with head implements. Twi and NMM were likely going into a head on collision.

 

Twi should know the limits of Celestia's power, but she doesn't seem to know much about Celestia at all. Twi didn't know Celestia  was easy going and casual at parties, that her pet was a phoenix, thought that she was going to banish FlutterShy for taking it, didn't know that Celestia regularly attends the running of the leaves event, and that her friendship lessons didn't need to be sent in every week. But then again, Celestia was Twilight's teacher, not her friend. Why and how would she have known any of this?

 

Just because the physical god of chaos can get sick doesn't mean that the semi-ethereal dream walker and sometimes cloud of tacky, space faring blue smoke can be infected by the same illness. 

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Denim&Venom,

Twilight face was aimed at Nightmare Moon, her horn wasn't lowered. Twilight was just making a mad rush while Nightmare Moon had her horn down.

 

Those things that Twilight didn't know, those are personality traits. As Twilight's teacher in magic, Twilight should know what Celestia can and can't do when it comes to magic. 

 

Discord can also turn himself intangible yet that didn't come up as option to heal himself. Besides, Nightmare Moon's hooves made a clopping noise when she walked and she had to skid to stop

[SharpWit 2,673]

@@Denim&Venom,

The fact that Nightmare Moon didn't just teleport in front of the Mane and go "Yeah, you can't go any further" and just scare them away or fight them either means she's an idiot or doesn't like close combat

 

Even if it wasn't Twilight's chest, it would have impaled Twilight's neck at least. 

 

Again, Celestia being a sun god means very little. Twilight, who should know pretty well the limits of Celestia's power, was scared of Parasprites attacking Celestia. It also does help that Nightmare Moon charged up her blast more against Celestia(probably due to not having a time limit)

 

If Discord can get sick, Nightmare Moon can get sick

Her lightning that barely even stunned the guards and was unable to even burn wood? That was magic that happened to look like lightning, it was nothing like lightning.

 

If someone says "I am not X, I am Y!" then they are Y in the eyes of the law. Even if this is taken out of account, Luna/Nightmare Moon would be counted as dead by this point, due to being viewed as a legend, which suggests she had her records scrubbed from history.

 

 

 

Headcanon, not usable

Like we've discussed earlier, she doesn't want them to resent her more than they already do. So direct confrontation is out of the question, until necessary. There were some holes in her plan but there are some in any. 

 

She could have readjusted the angle she charged at, at the last second, then have a stand off like that of Celestia and Chrysalis.

 

Her lightning didn't stun them, it acted as a protective barrier. They never actually touched it. You have no basis on it being able to burn would or not. Presuming it's real lightning, then indeed it will most certainly light wood on fire.

 

Unless you legally change your name from X to Y the law considers you to be X. Even as Y this does not change your title. She is still the biological sister of Celestia, and unless she is defeated or held in custody, she still has the right. The fact that the public isn't very aware of this, doesn't make it any less true.

 

I know headcanon isn't usable, which is why I state when something is an opinion

[Hive King 2,001]

@@SharpWit,

Her plan was doomed from the beginning. Again, the smart thing would have been to just smash the Elements before hand. Granted, it wouldn't have worked, but it would have made sense.

 

 Then why was she charging with her horn like that in the first place? Also, check the scene again, Nightmare Moon literally doesn't move her horn at all when Twilight teleports. Last minute change indeed.

 

Real lightning would have blinded everyone in the room, blown out their ear drums, and other nasty stuff. Whatever the case may be, it doesn't work like real world lightning

 

No, if lawyers and contracts don't know about her, she has no witness to back her claim. For all they know, she could be King Sombra

[SharpWit 2,673]

@, If she had smashed the elements and throw them in a nearby ditch, all would have went well for her.

 

The thing with the horn is that it is one of those what ifs  that we will never be sure of. Could have gone either way

 

The lightning either doesn't act like real world lighting, or it was more like a tesla coil. Makes electricity which is confirmed as the same thing as lightning, only it can't be generated at the same intensity.

 

For a witness, she has Celestia. For further evidence there is the the tale of the mare in the moon, and archives found both in canterlot castle and the castle of the two sisters. Even if she wasn't Celestia's sister, she has taken over by force, and is therefore has the right to do as she pleases, until successfully taken down, by her subjects, or another nation. Case closed

[Hive King 2,001]

@@SharpWit,

You think Celestia is going to help Nightmare Moon? She has put her life on the line for her subject's freedom and will do so again. Another nation attacking is very likely, the dragons wont be happy about her little eternal night stunt, the gryphons, mules, and donkeys appear to have a decent relationship with Equestria and would be upset about Nightmare Moon attacking.

 

Think of it like Mitt Rommney throwing Obama in a gulag and then taking over. It's a rough example, but you get why people would be pissed

[SharpWit 2,673]

@, No, I think that Celestia will answer one simple question that doesn't change anything honestly. If Nightmare Moon runs things smoothly, other nations wont bother. The dragons probably wont care, since their homes and food source are formed by geological events and not celestial bodies. Of course the ponies won't like it but things aren't always fair.

 

And if they get rid of her, she might leave them in eternal darkness. I believe these last words would suite this situation very nicely. "Check Mate"

[Hive King 2,001]

@@SharpWit, 

Nightmare Moon will have a problem when Basil decides to nap, she'll have smoke covering her land for a long time. She doesn't have the diplomatic skill to deal with him peacefully and if she tries to fight him, the dragons will be very mad.

 

No, getting rid of her won't do anything. In Hearth's Warming Eve, it is revealed that simple unicorns could move the Sun and Moon if gathered together. Getting rid of Nightmare Moon, a tyrant, will be well worth the risk.

[Wild Star 141]

mayybe. i have this theory that when lune reaches maturity, she will get a little bit of NMM. in other words, all NMM's badassery.

 

i have always wanted to make a video of Luna's transformation to NMM to the tune of "Let it Go."

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Wild Star,

A bit late to the party, I've seen 4 so far. The song does fit though, since it is basically Hakuna Matata

 

Short Term Solution? Check

Thought Up On The Fly? Check

Huge Ramifications? Check

Main Character Pussying Out and Running Away? Check

Main Characters Is Too Busy Hiding to Realize What Happened? Check

 

That's not to say Let It Go is bad, I just view is as a pseudo villain song, but it's not empowering. So yeah, since Nightmare Moon poisoned Luna, it fits 

Edited February 20, 2014 by Evil Dragon Master

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Taking from the words of Lauren Faust and expanded by the comics it is made clear that yes Nightmare Moon is evil. Luna allows a dark force to over take her and bring about a transformation. This is visually shown in Princess Twilight Sparkle but explained in the comics as the Nightmare forces.

 

So for the sake of this question yes Nightmare Moon is evil, even though Princess Luna is not.

Edited February 20, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Wild Star 141]

@@Wild Star,

A bit late to the party, I've seen 4 so far. The song does fit though, since it is basically Hakuna Matata

 

Short Term Solution? Check

Thought Up On The Fly? Check

Huge Ramifications? Check

Main Character Pussying Out and Running Away? Check

Main Characters Is Too Busy Hiding to Realize What Happened? Check

 

That's not to say Let It Go is bad, I just view is as a pseudo villain song, but it's not empowering. So yeah, since Nightmare Moon poisoned Luna, it fits 

Yeah, the song does have quite a bit of that. (the past is in the past? that didn't work out for sure.) but i like singing it. I am like that.  even if the song itself is total self absorbed crap, i like it because its fun to sing.

yeah, i guess since i am a Celestia hater, i see NMM as more of Luna freed (just very very grumpy.) not really canon, but I feel like Luna is still being held back by her sister, or just...held back, and has some growing up to do.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Wild Star

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Wild Star,

The line that really sounds villainous is "No right, no wrong, no rules for me". Put that in the Joker's mouth, see how creepy it sounds.

That doesn't quite work, Luna herself says that Nightmare Moon was an evil monster to be feared and hated 

[Denim&Venöm 19,075]

@@Denim&Venom,

Twilight face was aimed at Nightmare Moon, her horn wasn't lowered. Twilight was just making a mad rush while Nightmare Moon had her horn down.

 

Those things that Twilight didn't know, those are personality traits. As Twilight's teacher in magic, Twilight should know what Celestia can and can't do when it comes to magic. 

 

Discord can also turn himself intangible yet that didn't come up as option to heal himself. Besides, Nightmare Moon's hooves made a clopping noise when she walked and she had to skid to stop

Her horn wasn't lowered because NMM is triple her height. If anything, Twilight would be the one more likely to impale out of the two since NMM is such a big target. 

 

Why would Twi know Celestia's limits in magic? As far as can be told, Twi isn't all that intimate with Celestia. Students don't know how well their art teacher can draw, what the computer science teacher can program or the biggest equation the math teacher ever solved. All Twi needs to know is that Celestia is a political leader, a national hero, mover of the largest objects in earth's skies and her mentor.

 

Discord hasn't been intangible. He's been linked with the physical realm in one shape or another, whether that's interacting with stained glass, transforming to various objects or becoming one with the ground itself. NMM changes her state from solid to gas, perhaps a plasma, and presumably retains her ability to dream walk. 

[Wild Star 141]

@@Wild Star,

The line that really sounds villainous is "No right, no wrong, no rules for me". Put that in the Joker's mouth, see how creepy it sounds.

That doesn't quite work, Luna herself says that Nightmare Moon was an evil monster to be feared and hated 

yep. sometimes, i spit on canon.

 

I dont think Luna should NMM again, but I think Luna needs to grow up a bit more, she's awesome, but she is still in her sisters shadow (how paradoxical), and i think she needs to become her own person, so to speak.

 

Cliche, but thats just me. :comeatus:

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Denim&Venom,

Nightmare Moon has armor on her neck, she'd be fine. I just rewatched the clip, if Twilight hadn't teleported, she would have been skewered.

 

 It's more to the lines of an athlete not knowing his coach's limits, magic is very physical.

 

Discord's little trick when he showed Twilight how she misinterpreted his riddle was something like that

yep. sometimes, i spit on canon.

 

I dont think Luna should NMM again, but I think Luna needs to grow up a bit more, she's awesome, but she is still in her sisters shadow (how paradoxical), and i think she needs to become her own person, so to speak.

 

Cliche, but thats just me. :comeatus:

That's fine, Luna should mature and become a more refined ruler. The problem is, ponies will never like her as much. She brings a time when they are blind and tired, that kind of lowers happiness points

[Wild Star 141]

That's fine, Luna should mature and become a more refined ruler. The problem is, ponies will never like her as much. She brings a time when they are blind and tired, that kind of lowers happiness points

at least the bronies like her as much. probably a lot more, considering the fanart.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Wild Star,

No kidding, the bronies love Luna and Nightmare Moon while hating Celestia. I guess it's because she's black and angsty 

[Anadu Kune 668]

Nightmare Moon was pretty evil. She Plunged Equestria into eternal night which would if not for the mane six have inexorably destroyed order and life in Equestria. She also had no qualms about using deception and manipulation to further her goals. She also banished her own sister to god knows where without a second thought.

Is she a tragic villain? Absolutely. Its been made clear that Luna was a good pony that was driven to evil. She felt shunned by the world around her as the ponies never took a moment to appreciate what she did for them. Whilst they basked in Celestia's sunlight they hid away from the stars and moon. The only possible solace Luna had was her possible interactions in the dreamspace. Even that probably just made her feel more shunned. The only time she ever saw her subjects was in the mental space of their dreams which they more often than not forget upon waking or write off as insignificant. After years of that its pretty easy to see how someone would lose it.

[Sky Cutter 294]

Her goal was to make the night last forever, which meant that the sun would never shine again, meaning the plants can't photosynthesize, meaning they can't produce oxygen, which means the ponies can't breathe, causing everypony to die along with all other life on the planet.

[commander cross 0]

I'm pretty sure she was but the fact that Luna can still change into nightmare moon tells me there might be something there still or its just smoke and mirrors.