To Those Of You Afraid To Give Critique (Please Sticky, This Is Very Important)

[Sir Wulfington 276]

So I've looked over countless threads in this section, and what I've consistently seen is that no matter how low quality the art, there are ALWAYS people giving the artist praise for it. Severe anatomy errors, lack of depth, too much dead space, awkward angles and poses, etc., doesn't matter, it'll get positive feedback. FAR too many posters here are either ignorant to quality in art, don't care as long as it involves their favorite character and or "waifu", or, what I believe is true for almost all cases, they're simply afraid to criticize.

Okay, here's the thing guys, if you're going to tell an artist that they did a good job, fully knowing that they did not, that they're work is very seriously flawed, you're doing nothing but hindering them as an artist. You're stunting their artistic growth, because I see a lot of them responding to the false praise and they seem to genuinely believe you. You're hurting them in the long run, because they'll get in their heads that they really are great, and won't get better. What if they try to get a job in art and get turned down by people who have the guts to tell them the truth, shattering their dreams. Maybe then they'll truly realize what's wrong with their work, that they're bad artists, and finally try to improve. But how many years will they have wasted being awful, when in that time, if it wasn't for false-praisers like yourselves telling them they don't need to get better because they're already "AWESOME !", they could've actually practiced and became truly awesome. But they listened to you and wasted so much time, and now they have to start from scratch.

Do you guys know how long it takes to become a good or great artist? Answer: A long fucking time. And you know what they may feel, towards you? Anger, anger for lying to them all that time, for filling their heads with bullshit, and wasting their time. They likely already suffer from something called Kruger-Dunning syndrome, which causes them to have a warped percetion of their own abilities, as in, it causes a horrible artist to think they're the humanity's gift to art.

 

 

So not telling them the truth is allowing them to remain stuck in this terrible mentality of bullshit. And maybe one day they'll overcome their Kruger-Dunning on their own, but the same negative consequences for your lies will happen. And even if they don't want a career in art, what if they just want to be a great artist for their own sake, to be able to beautifully represent the worlds, characters, and creatures in their heads on paper? Again, not being truthful and telling them what they're doing wrong will hold them back. Unless you think that them forever remaining blissfully ignorant to their own incompetence is a good thing. I don't, personally.

 

So I'm making this thread, to tell those of you who don't have the courage to critique a bad artist, to either do one of two things

 

A) Be honest, tell them everything they did wrong and suggest they find help to improve, if you know how to, great, tell them, if not, just encourage to seek it.

 

or

 

B  )DONT, SAY, ANY, THING

 

If you can't find it in you to tell the bad artists that they're bad and need to improve, than if you really care about them, if you really want to do the right thing, you'll say nothing. Nothing at all, because all you're doing is hurting them in the long run, and most likely, they won't be too happy with you once they realize how bad they really are and that you were lying to them all this time.

 

And those of you who only say you like it because you're fav/waifu is the subject of the picture, same goes for you too, I don't care if you like it anyway, it's bad, you know it's bad, tell them it's bad. Just because a character you like is in it doesn't mean you can say it's good, doesn't mean that it even is good. That's an extremely shallow reason to like a piece of art.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Ribbonfree 2,384]

It's kind of hard to be a critic, almost an art form in and of itself. To some extent you have to be better than the person who you're judging, so you can really understand the nitty gritty of what it is they need to improve on. After all, criticism is useless if it isn't constructive. Besides, art is subjective, and simplistic or weird styles can also garner a following.

 

Both those things said I overall agree with you. As an artist myself (musician) I really don't like seeing generic comments praising work. Even the smallest suggestions and observations help an artist grow. But it's not easy to give good suggestions in the first place, if you're not an artist yourself. That's probably why artists as a community tend to become insular to some extent. They need one another for valid advice and criticism.

[Sir Wulfington 276]

It's kind of hard to be a critic, almost an art form in and of itself. To some extent you have to be better than the person who you're judging, so you can really understand the nitty gritty of what it is they need to improve on. After all, criticism is useless if it isn't constructive. Besides, art is subjective, and simplistic or weird styles can also garner a following.

 

Both those things said I overall agree with you. As an artist myself (musician) I really don't like seeing generic comments praising work. Even the smallest suggestions and observations help an artist grow. But it's not easy to give good suggestions in the first place, if you're not an artist yourself. That's probably why artists as a community tend to become insular to some extent. They need one another for valid advice and criticism.

 

Well, art is subjective to a point (different styles, fantasy vs sci fi, cartoony vs realism, etc.), but quality is certainly not. And while yes, it could be hard or impossible to give proper criticism when you don't know what's even wrong, my point is, if you know that it's bad, don't tell the artist that it's not. Be honest, or don't say anything. This is the internet people, you don't have to fear that these artists are gonna jump through your monitors to get you for criticizing their work.

 

I have heard, tho, that most people are unable to distinguish good from bad art. Still, the people that can need to critique, they're the ones that can help the bad artists become good.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Ribbonfree 2,384]

Well, art is subjective to a point (different styles, fantasy vs sci fi, cartoony vs realism, etc.), but quality is certainly not. And while yes, it could be hard or impossible to give proper criticism when you don't know what's even wrong, my point is, if you know that it's bad, don't tell the artist that it's not. Be honest, or don't say anything. This is the internet people, you don't have to fear that these artists are gonna jump through your monitors to get you for criticizing their work.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your point at all, I'm just pointing out why it may be easier for most others to give generic praise. They don't know how to say what's wrong, and don't want to come off as just giving criticism with no constructive reason.

[Sir Wulfington 276]

I'm not disagreeing with your point at all, I'm just pointing out why it may be easier for most others to give generic praise. They don't know how to say what's wrong, and don't want to come off as just giving criticism with no constructive reason.

 

Than don't say anything, this is the internet, so unless someone specifically mails you and asks for your opinion, than you don't have to respond. In real life, yeah, you can't just be silent, and it's admittedly harder to critique them when they're standing 2 feet away from you, but still, you should be honest anyway. Unless they're mentally unstable and or psychotic, but in that case there are much bigger problems to worry about.....

Edited May 30, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Ribbonfree 2,384]

Than don't say anything, this is the internet, so unless someone specifically mails you and asks for your opinion, than you don't have to respond. In real life, yeah, you can't just be silent, and it's admittedly harder to critique them when they're standing 2 feet away from you, but still, you should be honest anyway. Unless they're mentally unstable and or psychotic, but in that case there are much bigger problems to worry about.....

 

But then the artist potentially runs into the problem of having no feedback at all. And that's just as bad, especially for the artist in question, if nobody seems to even care enough to give them a word or two on their hard work, regardless of it's quality. In a void of feedback the artist might assume things about their work that aren't necessarily true, which also distorts their style. So either way you have a problem. How many people do you know who have the know how and willingness to give the forum artists honest appraisal? 

[Sir Wulfington 276]

But then the artist potentially runs into the problem of having no feedback at all. And that's just as bad, especially for the artist in question, if nobody seems to even care enough to give them a word or two on their hard work, regardless of it's quality. In a void of feedback the artist might assume things about their work that aren't necessarily true, which also distorts their style. So either way you have a problem. How many people do you know who have the know how and willingness to give the forum artists honest appraisal? 

 

At least if they aren't getting praise, they may potentially improve by perhaps taking another look at their work with a critical eye and trying to find problems in it, thus actually seeing what's wrong and working to fix those issues. Giving them false approval does NOTHING good for them, absolutely NOTHING. And I have seen a handful of people here give good critique, I don't think I can find examples, but it does happen. But very rarely. I think it only happens when a person's art is a very specific level of terrible, it's really bizarre.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,825]

I critique with my utmost honesty, but with it, I put encouragement to it. Oh sure, I've gotten some "ouches" from people, but it's all to help them become better. It is good to be honest, because even though it may sting for a short while, in the long run, it benefits. 

[Ribbonfree 2,384]

At least if they aren't getting praise, they may potentially improve by perhaps taking another look at their work with a critical eye and trying to find problems in it, thus actually seeing what's wrong and working to fix those issues. Giving them false approval does NOTHING good for them, absolutely NOTHING. And I have seen a handful of people here give good critique, I don't think I can find examples, but it does happen. But very rarely. I think it only happens when a person's art is a very specific level of terrible, it's really bizarre.

 

Depends on the artist in question to some extent, people react differently to critique and the lack thereof. I remember I spent a good half day giving another forum member who I won't name very thorough critique and he took it very badly. But overall I do agree with you. I'm just pointing out why things might not change on this specific site. Look at the notable lack of feedback from anybody else besides me on this concept, for example. Never mind, they've finally arrived.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Little Black Dress

[Zhortac 1,475]

There are a few, where it's a joke when there's praise, since the drawing is also a gag.

 

However, we live in such a fragile age, that people think that saying ANYTHING bad about something, means you hate it and you're some kind of giant douchebag. Gets really annoying when they all flood you with, "If you don't like it, don't look at it." or, "its their thing, keep your opinion to yourself!" Seriously, its like they WANT humanity to stay stagnate, and never improve.

 

People need to learn the difference between critique, and hate, because they're not the same damn thing.

[Sir Wulfington 276]

Depends on the artist in question to some extent, people react differently to critique and the lack thereof. I remember I spent a good half day giving another forum member who I won't name very thorough critique and he took it very badly. But overall I do agree with you. I'm just pointing out why things might not change on this specific site. Look at the notable lack of feedback from anybody else besides me on this concept, for example.

 

Oh yeah, I remember one time I tried it, was as polite as possible, yet the person was obviously offended anyway. I'm confident that when he or she called me "bud" or "bro" he had much less polite terms he wanted to refer to me with.....sometimes you get the "it's just my style excuse" when it's clearly a poorly drawn manga style that they've someone convinced themselves is their own very unique style. Some people need to help themselves before anyone else can, I think. Still, we should try regardless until it becomes clear that logic and reason are not things they much care for.

 

As much as I'd like to, if I were to critique every last bad artist here.......yeah, there's just WAY too much for one person. I could make a big tutorial thread giving all the advice I can, but why would anyone who thinks they're awesome read it? That's the problem.

[PE Brony 1,712]

The first thread I started was actually my first attempt at ponifying (spelling? haha) one of my favorite characters from a different show. I had to be vocal that I wanted some sort of comments because I knew I needed some definite improvement! I finally got one critique and it was very helpful!! I was able to receive advice that was honest and helpful, I have yet to work on any others, but I now have a basis to work from and some tips to make improvements!

 

When it comes to paintings etc, I found I can't stand abstractions (like Picasso, I can't stand a lot of Picasso's stuff) because I really love and appreciate realism. I don't connect well with people's emotions, so connecting to a painting/drawing that was made to show their feelings is pretty alien to me.

 

Now, I found I wasn't terribly good at making ponies, but I did make most of the flags for the MLPF World Cup (as you can see in my signature) and I feel like those fit more of my skill level and technique. I found something that worked for me and had fun with it! I didn't have to keep beating a dead "horse" (sorry, it had to be used...) with my attempts at ponifying for the for the time being.

[Sir Wulfington 276]

There are a few, where it's a joke when there's praise, since the drawing is also a gag.

 

However, we live in such a fragile age, that people think that saying ANYTHING bad about something, means you hate it and you're some kind of giant douchebag. Gets really annoying when they all flood you with, "If you don't like it, don't look at it." or, "its their thing, keep your opinion to yourself!" Seriously, its like they WANT humanity to stay stagnate, and never improve.

 

People need to learn the difference between critique, and hate, because they're not the same damn thing.

 

Here here, oh, and you forgot to add my personal favorite : "Oh YEAH?! I'd like to see YOU do better!" as if my supposed ineptitude somehow justifies the other person's.....

The first thread I started was actually my first attempt at ponifying (spelling? haha) one of my favorite characters from a different show. I had to be vocal that I wanted some sort of comments because I knew I needed some definite improvement! I finally got one critique and it was very helpful!! I was able to receive advice that was honest and helpful, I have yet to work on any others, but I now have a basis to work from and some tips to make improvements!

 

When it comes to paintings etc, I found I can't stand abstractions (like Picasso, I can't stand a lot of Picasso's stuff) because I really love and appreciate realism. I don't connect well with people's emotions, so connecting to a painting/drawing that was made to show their feelings is pretty alien to me.

 

Now, I found I wasn't terribly good at making ponies, but I did make most of the flags for the MLPF World Cup (as you can see in my signature) and I feel like those fit more of my skill level and technique. I found something that worked for me and had fun with it! I didn't have to keep beating a dead "horse" (sorry, it had to be used...) with my attempts at ponifying for the for the time being.

Yeah, seriously, I don't see what's so great about picasso's, he was awful at worst and average at best. I swear, if some DeviantArt nobody did art like he did nobody would care. I think there's some other reason why his stuff is so popular. Than again, a fucking balloon dog sold for 58 MILLION DOLLARS:

 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/11/14/an-orange-balloon-dog-sold-for-58-4-million-so-here-are-10-cool-jeff-koons-balloon-pieces/

 

THIS is considered art.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,178]

The art of critiquing is a difficult ones, because a lot of people don't want to be mean... For those of you that this applies please watche the breezies episode of mlp FIM.

[PE Brony 1,712]

Here here, oh, and you forgot to add my personal favorite : "Oh YEAH?! I'd like to see YOU do better!" as if my supposed ineptitude somehow justifies the other person's.....

Yeah, seriously, I don't see what's so great about picasso's, he was awful at worst and average at best. I swear, if some DeviantArt nobody did art like he did nobody would care. I think there's some other reason why his stuff is so popular. Than again, a fucking balloon dog sold for 58 MILLION DOLLARS:

 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/11/14/an-orange-balloon-dog-sold-for-58-4-million-so-here-are-10-cool-jeff-koons-balloon-pieces/

 

THIS is considered art.

Ok, TBH, I totally laughed at that site! This picture is what did me in:

 

 

Actually, if someone hadn't popped it, I had made a balloon dog on Cinco de Mayo--it wasn't 20 freakin' feet tall, but I made one!! I was so proud of it because it was my first balloon creation ever. See?

 

 

 

[AppleGearRising 526]

Human beings are sensitive creatures, if you don't like that then something needs to be done to change that fact.

 

Ever heard the quote "The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence"? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. People DO receive criticism for their work from time to time constructive or otherwise, and unless I've completely misjudged your 'benevolence'  then I would recommend avoiding making any needlessly negative appraisals of anyone's work lest you upset them and end up on the wrong end of the stick :/

[PE Brony 1,712]

Human beings are sensitive creatures, if you don't like that then something needs to be done to change that fact.

 

Ever heard the quote "The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence"? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. People DO receive criticism for their work from time to time constructive or otherwise, and unless I've completely misjudged your 'benevolence'  then I would recommend avoiding making any needlessly negative appraisals of anyone's work lest you upset them and end up on the wrong end of the stick :/

Well, there is a difference between pure negativity and constructive criticism.

A negative person would just say, "That is horrible. You suck at art. Never draw anything again." You know, trolls.

A constructive criticizer would say, "You've done well with what you have, but there is plenty of room for improvement. Try changing ______ and use some ______ and let's see what happens next time! Don't give up. Learn and improve." You know, teachers.

 

And that quote totally made me think of religious debates. I think I've heard it before, but it was just worded less eloquently.

[AppleGearRising 526]

Well, there is a difference between pure negativity and constructive criticism.

A negative person would just say, "That is horrible. You suck at art. Never draw anything again." You know, trolls.

A constructive criticizer would say, "You've done well with what you have, but there is plenty of room for improvement. Try changing ______ and use some ______ and let's see what happens next time! Don't give up. Learn and improve." You know, teachers.

 

And that quote totally made me think of religious debates. I think I've heard it before, but it was just worded less eloquently.

Mmhmm, that's precisely what I'm getting at, I've seen plenty of art threads where people have been kind but useful in providing pointers where the artist can improve.

 

And I don't think that would've been me using the same quote twice, I don't usually go near religious debates because those things can scare me sometimes XD

[Sir Wulfington 276]

Ok, TBH, I totally laughed at that site! This picture is what did me in:

 

 

Actually, if someone hadn't popped it, I had made a balloon dog on Cinco de Mayo--it wasn't 20 freakin' feet tall, but I made one!! I was so proud of it because it was my first balloon creation ever. See?

 

 

 

 

I would love nothing more than to go to that museum with a sharp object and pop that abomination, just to laugh at the asshole who wasted such obsene loads of money on something anyone with functioning hands and eyes could make for like not even a dollar. I swear, the art culture business consists of two people, the jerkoff rich people who are competing to see who can waste the money on garbage made using materials that cost not even 0.0000000000001% of the price they paid, and could so easily be recreated, and the (con)-artists who are laughing their asses off the banks afterwards.

 

Like, holy shit.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[PE Brony 1,712]

Mmhmm, that's precisely what I'm getting at, I've seen plenty of art threads where people have been kind but useful in providing pointers where the artist can improve.

 

And I don't think that would've been me using the same quote twice, I don't usually go near religious debates because those things can scare me sometimes XD

Oh no, it wasn't here on the forums. It was in person with someone else I knew a few years ago.

[Frostgage 7,981]

 

 

There are a few, where it's a joke when there's praise, since the drawing is also a gag.

 

I have a feeling this refers to me.

[AppleGearRising 526]

Oh no, it wasn't here on the forums. It was in person with someone else I knew a few years ago.

Ah, well I wont pry but I can imagine that having been a very interesting conversation indeed

[Sir Wulfington 276]

Human beings are sensitive creatures, if you don't like that then something needs to be done to change that fact.

 

Ever heard the quote "The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence"? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. People DO receive criticism for their work from time to time constructive or otherwise, and unless I've completely misjudged your 'benevolence'  then I would recommend avoiding making any needlessly negative appraisals of anyone's work lest you upset them and end up on the wrong end of the stick :/

As I said, I have seen it, but it's really rare, at least around here. And when was I making any "needlessly negative appraisals?".

Edited May 30, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[PE Brony 1,712]

I would love nothing more than to go to that museum with a sharp object and pop that abomination, just to laugh at the asshole who wasted such obsene loads of money on something anyone with functioning hands and eyes could make for like not even a dollar. I swear, the art culture business consists of two people, the jerkoff rich people who are competing to see who can waste the money on garbage made using materials that cost not even 0.0000000000001% of the price they paid, and could so easily be recreated, and the (con)-artists who are laughing their asses off the banks afterwards.

 

Like, holy shit.

Did you not read the article? They were steel recreations of balloon animals, painted to look like balloons...ya gotsta read! haha

Edited May 30, 2014 by PE Brony

[Zhortac 1,475]

Here here, oh, and you forgot to add my personal favorite : "Oh YEAH?! I'd like to see YOU do better!" as if my supposed ineptitude somehow justifies the other person's.....

 

True. Hell, most art/media critics that have good taste, couldn't draw, or produce media to save their own lives. Its possible to be an expert in knowing what is art, without being a good artist. Hell, people like Van Goah(sp), and DaVincci had no idea if their art was good, they just did it to express themselves.

I have a feeling this refers to me.

 

Indeed it do, indeed it do.