Forced Reformation:Moral or Immoral?

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

So about a month or two ago i stumbled upon a fanfic that featured an alternative ending of it. 
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/188234/to-lose-when-you-win
Needless to say i appreciate changeling fics whatever the outcome ((although i prefer it if there is a characterization of all characters and not simply making one party be an instinctive monster)). But i was baffled by one thing and one thing only...

So apparently Chrysalis got through a highly traumatic experience. Right now i am going to make a pause and say that in no way am i doing this topic as an apology because i like said character. I want to tackle the general immorality of an issue. Moving on... she was forced to see in high detail what she had done to the people of Canterlot ((It is implied she did things wrong her whole life but i see no such thing being analyzed a bit, though i can't really expect something like this in a one-shot)). This whole thing leaves said Queen in a catatonic state that makes her a vegetable... Probably a psychological defensive reaction that leaves her soul completely broken in shams. I know i got a little colorful in my description right here but please don't let it make you biased.

I was stunned... why wasn't she at least warned or prepared about this? Why would Celestia even do that? To me this is practically like a lobotomy... althought this might be an extreme deduction... In my opinion it's better to just kill said person right away if you're going to try and make them see things your way. It sounds awfully lot like Brainwashing... 

What happened to Chrysalis reminds me of Legion's Loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2 where Shepard was given the chance to either destroy or reprogram the heretic geth.

Take a look at this...
What Jack says "Great choices... Brainwashing or genocide. If you messed with my head... made me smile and nod... i'd rather you have killed me... make me die as me."
Samara-"Either or else what makes these geth individuals dies."
Thane-"There is no moral difference... if you changed them... you've killed them. Killed their perspective."
Jacob-"Changing their personalities is the same as killing them... who they are is gone." Mordin kinda takes both sides-"Reprogramming is kinder. Unless change for obedience is immoral." Grunt-"Take away their fighting spirit... what else matters?"
Garrus-"That sounds dangerously like indoctrination..."
Shepard-"I couldn't see myself brainwashing an organic race..."
It all fits this situation you know? Even Legion's ending where he says that the choice must be done and there is no negotiating it. There is no "true" choice here... there is no good outcome out of this. Imagine if in that mission the geth virus had just one line of code missing making all geth inactive... bypassing the fact that they are machines aka another species you do not care for... what would you do then? I would prefer that Chrysalis be given death penalty or stone imprisonment or whatever rather than this. In fact i share Jack's opinion and i think Chrysalis would too...

In said fic i was met with people saying that they would actually prefer such a way because it is far more effective than today's society... but i still don't think of it as right... it's still forced and it's still immoral.

But you will say "It's a fanfic... if you don't like it don't read it/downvote it." Hang on for a moment... I want to put another thing into the Equation... from "Keep Calm and Flutter On" Twilight was considering of a "Reform Spell"! Well guys that's the closest thing to magical brainwashing that i've ever seen if i ever read about one! Is it moral to make those choices? Just because said people are threatening you? Or that you "feel" threatened by them? What if something goes wrong with said spell and you start having permanent mental damage? In my opinion that is tottaly wrong... and i would never do that.

So guys your opinion on the subject?

[Silver Letter 1,832]

You put a lot of effort into this question. I had not thought of the "reform spell" like that but the comparison to the Geth is precise even so far as that neither are actual living things as the normal definition would apply. Discord is a spirit and the Geth is a machine "hive mind". I would suppose that there is a measurable level of corruption in the idea of forced reformation. Although, can the destruction of Nightmare Moon be seen as the same thing? Maybe some might try to justify it and others may see it is morally wrong. Finally, I see that while it may be used for good, trying to undo the individual like that is probably too morally corrupt to be used. Although, I did not utilize that mindset with the Geth because they are just machines, not organic beings and there is no individual. Just Geth. Even Discord isn't truly artificial like they are and is an individual. I should think about the issue more.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

had not thought of the "reform spell" like that but the comparison to the Geth is precise even so far as that neither are actual living things as the normal definition would apply. Discord is a spirit and the Geth is a machine "hive mind".

Actually in my own mind Discord is an individual and likely it is that way because Cherilee refers to him as a species and not as a singular embodiment of a force. He is likely however both... Now i did ask midway of this arguement to choose for a moment to ignore the fact that geth are machines. Because in the future of Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3 Legion asks a question... "Does this unit... have a soul?" they are not soul-less machines... they are advanced AIs something close to actual sentient living being but in machine form. They CAN be held accountable for their actions...

 

Although, can the destruction of Nightmare Moon be seen as the same thing?

In my own mind i see Nightmare Moon as an external forced influence of Dark Magic... likely it is a dark force called upon by Luna's jealousy... but that's just me...

 

I should think about the issue more.

I look forward to more analysis on the subject. Call your friends in this thread! Let's make this fun! 

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

Cherilee refers to him as a species and not as a singular embodiment of a force.

For some reason, my computer isn't acting right so I can't check the episode to make sure. I thought she simply gave him a name and didn't say what it was referring to. I always believed that she shouldn't know anything about Discord and would see him only as a legend and not a real spirit at all.

 

 

Because in the future of Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3 Legion asks a question

I can continue with the assumption (for argument's sake) that they operate very close to what an organic being would behave. I didn't play the final game though as I would not finish as a different character than the one I started with. So anyway, if they are considered in the same way as a human or a spirit like Discord then reprogramming them would be perhaps more wrong than simply destroying them.

 

 

likely it is a dark force called upon by Luna's jealousy... but that's just me...

It does seem that the Elements automatically reformed her, not merely cleansed her of the Nightmare.

[NightGuard 251]

Hmm..I saw this in another thread. It is pretty fucked up in my opinion. I think that change in mindset or change in personality is a horrible thing to do and to leave her in a fucking vegetable state. Oh sweet Celestia you've done fucked up.

 

Can I make a video response possibly?

Edited June 29, 2014 by NightGuard

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

It does seem that the Elements automatically reformed her, not merely cleansed her of the Nightmare.

We may never know why they didn't do so in the first place.

 

Hmm..I saw this in another thread. It is pretty fucked up in my opinion. I think that change in mindset or change in personality is a horrible thing to do and to leave her in a fucking vegetable state. Oh sweet Celestia you've done fucked up.

Can I make a video response possibly?

Why yes indeed! That would be glorious! I mean i would feel honored that someone would choose to spend that much time in such an arguement. If you wish to refer me in that video i would be okay with that!