Lack of positive male role models

[Mand'alor Dash 2,224]

If you got stung by every bee that got near you, you'd probably stay away from bees.

Because men are just buzzy bees with animal instincts who have no control over where they point their stingers, right?

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

 

 

That's why I think it would help if we can tear down this notion of "girls shows" and "boys shows," and have well developed male and female characters in every show.

 

And that's why Young Justice had to go. It dared to believe.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

If boys think all girls are bitches, then they ARE dicks.

 

The point of 'girl shows' is because of boys shows.  it's something for girls to relate to in such a man-dominated world.  How can you not see that?

 

Do we even live on the same planet? Just asking, because your reasoning is waaaaaaay out there. Last I checked, women are allowed to vote, play sports, join the armed forces, become CEOs, and otherwise pursue their dreams... exactly the same things men can do. We almost had a female president over here in the United States, and still, many governors, senators, and representatives are women.

 

Case in point, I don't have any idea what you're talking about.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

It seems that a lot of people do have that attitude, yes. Pardon my language, but boys think all girls are bitches, and girls think all guys are dicks. I hear it all the time, and it gets old really quickly. Please, can't we just stop that nonsense? We're all human, here.

 

That's why I think it would help if we can tear down this notion of "girls shows" and "boys shows," and have well developed male and female characters in every show. But, hey, maybe I'm just being a little too idealistic.

 

I don't hate girls . . . 

 

In fact, I the majority of my friends are girls. On average, girls are just easier to talk to and have candid conversation with. Men tend to be more guarded. Sure it's easy when you have something in common, such as this show which brings out passion. But I'm the odd man out for wearing my passion on my sleeve.

 

Anyway, I do appreciate what you are saying. We must make an effort for equal treatment. One of my favorite episodes of the Powerpuff Girls, Equal Fights, had pretty much this same lesson on mind. (And three guesses who wrote it.   ) 

Buttercup: Susan B. Anthony didn't want special treatment . . . she wanted everyone to be treated equally.

 

Bubbles: She demanded she be sent to jail just like any man who broke the law.

 

Blossom:  . . . . . And that's exactly what we're gonna do to you! 

Edited September 19, 2014 by Steel Accord

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

*sees direction the conversation is starting to go*

 

[Nulln 755]

Because men are just buzzy bees with animal instincts who have no control over where they point their stingers, right?

i know that is a joke, but it does sound familiar.  

 

Do we even live on the same planet? Just asking, because your reasoning is waaaaaaay out there. Last I checked, women are allowed to vote, play sports, join the armed forces, become CEOs, and otherwise pursue their dreams... exactly the same things men can do. We almost had a female president over here in the United States, and still, many governors, senators, and representatives are women.

 

Case in point, I don't have any idea what you're talking about.

"allowed" as in we need permission to do it  just how long ago do you think we got permission to do those things?  it wasn't very long ago.  even now women are still blamed for being victims of assault.  

of course you have no idea what i'm talking about, you don't have to live life as a female.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

Fancy Pants is probably best role model.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

I don't hate girls . . . 

 

That was a generalization. I know you don't hate girls... that's my whole point. A lot of us don't. I don't hate girls either, but all too often I get the feeling that girls hate me because they immediately assume I must have some sort of malicious intentions. A lot of girls do that and a lot of guys do that... I just don't get it. Not everyone does, and all the hate makes life worse for the rest of us.

 

I wish some woman would see me as a human being capable of all the same emotions that other girls are, rather than as some greedy overlord dictator who's trying to oppress them.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Regulus

[Steel Accord 6,660]

That was a generalization. I know you don't hate girls... that's my whole point. A lot of us don't. I don't hate girls either, but all too often I get the feeling that girls hate me because they immediately assume I must have some sort of malicious intentions.

 

I wish some woman would see me as a human being capable of all the same emotions that other girls are, rather than as some greedy overlord dictator who's trying to oppress them.

 

I agree. Although I can't say I sympathize. Most girls I talk to just seemed more concerned with whatever situation we happen to be in at the time, be it school or work. So no negative assumptions on either person's part. 

[Mand'alor Dash 2,224]

i know that is a joke, but it does sound familiar.  

 

You really do believe that junk, don't you?

 

 

"allowed" as in we need permission to do it  just how long ago do you think we got permission to do those things?  it wasn't very long ago.  even now women are still blamed for being victims of assault.  

of course you have no idea what i'm talking about, you don't have to live life as a female.

 

Women gained the right to vote in 1920. 94 years ago. There is almost no possible way you or anyone you know was even alive back then.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

It seems that a lot of people do have that attitude, yes. Pardon my language, but boys think all girls are bitches, and girls think all guys are dicks. I hear it all the time, and it gets old really quickly. Please, can't we just stop that nonsense? We're all human, here.

 

That's why I think it would help if we can tear down this notion of "girls shows" and "boys shows," and have well developed male and female characters in every show. But, hey, maybe I'm just being a little too idealistic.

You're kind of working from the position of what an ideal world would look like though. We don't live in that ideal world, we live in a world where there is a deficiency of female role models in media.

[Nulln 755]

 

You really do believe that junk, don't you?

 

 

Women gained the right to vote in 1920. 94 years ago. There is almost no possible way you or anyone you know was even alive back then.

http://www.infopleas...stimeline3.html

 

this is recent years.  you can also look through the older years on that.  and there are plenty of 94+ year olds.  and the fact that we had to fight for those(and are still fighting for some) rights in a 'civilized' world is awful.  plus there are tons of people who still believe that the world should still be that way.

Edited September 19, 2014 by ScumCandy

[Steel Accord 6,660]

You know who actually have been great role models for me?

 

 

Yeah, strangest thing isn't it? The thing is, I realized how immature I was through their example.

 

For the longest time I wanted to be in the military, I convinced myself it was my destiny to join it. As I watched the show, I grew more confidant but my world was still not "sparking" the way I thought it would in my young adult life. 

 

I went to writing some fanfiction for this show, the first I had ever written. I really liked doing it, I found a comfort and thrill in the creative process. I looked back on my life, how all the school projects and personal diary entries were times I enjoyed.

 

Then the CMC would come to that moment of epiphany that would lead them to their true destiny but it would fly over their heads.

 

 . . . . That's when I realized I was no different from the Cutie Mark Crusaders. Only they had an excuse, at least they're kids!

 

I felt like I had discovered my cutie mark. So I dropped the military aspirations and switched schools to become a writer and here I am! Happy as a clam, with ideas in my head and passion in my heart. Thanks to the Mane Six and the CMC. 

[mars 4,862]

There's so many girls in MLP of so many personalities that the idea that they're all "female role models" is weird to me. What, would I not be able to appreciate the elements of Harmony if they were held by dudes? Introduce more male characters, fine, but not out of an idea that boys can't learn from female characters and need their ponies to be 'just like them' to identify.

Wow, you make a very excellent point! Why can't males look up to female characters as role models and vice versa? There doesn't have to be more males just for more boy role models, you're right. Even if, I admit, I'd like at least one more male role model.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

I agree. Although I can't say I sympathize. Most girls I talk to just seemed more concerned with whatever situation we happen to be in at the time, be it school or work. So no negative assumptions on either person's part. 

 

Well, it's only happened to me once in real life, so I suppose I could chalk it up to some rare occurrence. But still, it hurt to have someone think less of me just because I'm a guy. At times it's led me to believe my existence is worth less than that of a female. Since, I've had moments where I wished I could have been born a girl so that I'd be more valuable to society.

 

I wish I was kidding, but I'm really not.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,302]

Discord is a positive male role model. 

Even Discord is shocked by this claim lol.  He's quick-witted and imaginative, ambitious and intelligent, and he knows how to make a situation work to his advantage.  We've also seen him undergo quite the transformation from an insensitive, self-serving creature (still an excellent villain, though xD - role model for up and coming villains) to a remorseful, genuine...  Still creature I guess lol, who had come to appreciate the value of true friendship.  I think anyone who's capable of changing for the right reasons (even though the road there was a bumpy and chaotic one) must possess some merits.  And ya know...  Nobody's perfect.  Discord is practically the poster boy for "second chances."

 

And Spike is the only other male character on the show I care about really. xD  Spike has a "dragon code" to which he fiercely adhered.  He may be portrayed as a "baby" dragon, but I don't know lotsa babies that have a strict moral code.  Admittedly, I don't know any babies, but I don't think they're the most morally conscious bunch.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Wow, you make a very excellent point! Why can't males look up to female characters as role models and vice versa? There doesn't have to be more males just for more boy role models, you're right. Even if, I admit, I'd like at least one more male role model.

 

Well there is one although this is kind of cheating.

 

 

And to counterbalance it, you know who has been an utter inspiration to me?

 

 

I sometimes am tempted to actually pray to this pony, her example of heroism and righteousness is that firmly rooted in my soul!

Well, it's only happened to me once in real life, so I suppose I could chalk it up to some rare occurrence. But still, it hurt to have someone think less of me just because I'm a guy. At times it's led me to believe my existence is worth less than that of a female. Since, I've had moments where I wished I could have been born a girl so that I'd be more valuable to society.

 

I wish I was kidding, but I'm really not.

 

Don't feel that way. You should never be ashamed of who you are, gender, race, orientation or whatever. Look inwards, it is only by examining our own souls that we truly find direction and purpose in our existence.

 

The ponies have cutie marks as a sort of magical "CONGRATULATIONS! You've figured out your life purpose!" We can only sense our own happiness for that same confirmation.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Steel Accord

[Jeric 46,851]

 

 

It seems that a lot of people do have that attitude, yes. Pardon my language, but boys think all girls are bitches, and girls think all guys are dicks. I hear it all the time, and it gets old really quickly. Please, can't we just stop that nonsense? We're all human, here.

 

I think that may be a touch overgeneralized.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I think Doctor Whoves would be a great addition to the show, although we all know it can't happen because Doctor Who is owned by other people and ugh.

 

I think the show needs legitimate male role models. If there were more guy characters that actually DID something useful, wouldn't it make it easier for boys to come out to people about liking the show? I'm a female, but I can't even draw a bloody circle with ears without my teachers jumping to the conclusion that it's a pony.

 

Completely irrelevant, but I don't understand why the people you meet in real life hate ponies ;_;

 

Tell me about it. 

 

I told someone at a party I was a brony and he didn't believe me! That's almost worse! To be defined as not being a negative sterotype because your proof that very stereotype isn't true.

 

I will say though, ever listen to the fan audio dramas of the Doctor? They're quality crossovers!

[Jeric 46,851]

Discord is a positive male role model. 

Even Discord is shocked by this claim lol.  He's quick-witted and imaginative, ambitious and intelligent, and he knows how to make a situation work to his advantage.  We've also seen him undergo quite the transformation from an insensitive, self-serving creature (still an excellent villain, though xD - role model for up and coming villains) to a remorseful, genuine...  Still creature I guess lol, who had come to appreciate the value of true friendship.  I think anyone who's capable of changing for the right reasons (even though the road there was a bumpy and chaotic one) must possess some merits.  And ya know...  Nobody's perfect.  Discord is practically the poster boy for "second chances."

 

And Spike is the only other male character on the show I care about really. xD  Spike has a "dragon code" to which he fiercely adhered.  He may be portrayed as a "baby" dragon, but I don't know lotsa babies that have a strict moral code.  Admittedly, I don't know any babies, but I don't think they're the most morally conscious bunch.

 

I enjoyed reading your approach on Discord there. I didn't even honestly consider him when mentally checking off the male characters.

 

Good points!

[Shanks 10,816]

Big Mac has the most potential of the stallions to be a positive role model, he along with Applejack had to help raise Applebloom and run the family farm and Big Mac had to try to be a good big brother to Applejack. Due to his quiet, calm demeanor I can easily see him as the voice of reason in the Apple Family among two rather opinionated mares and a young filly who occasionally gets into some trouble.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

I think that may be a touch overgeneralized.

 

That's the whole point. It *is* overgeneralized.

 

Perhaps I should have worded that better, but I was trying to point out that it's harmful because it is such a generalization.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Uhhhhh I don't really hold Discord as much of a role model. More as a cautionary tale. His good characteristics were in service to himself at the expense of others.

 

When he half assed his own redemption, attempting to reap the rewards of friendship with none of the responsibility he and all of Equestria almost payed the price.

 

I do consider him a good character certainly but not one that I think people should aspire to be like.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,302]

This isn't strictly on-topic, but I still wanted to say it having read some of the other posts:

 

Based solely upon the women within my family (which account for the majority of social experiences I've had with women lol), the argument could be made that I have more cause to view women negatively than I do to view them otherwise.  My grandmother, and I truly think this way, is an awful human being.  She's always, always made the lives of those I care about most more difficult, and she's one of the most manipulative, self-serving, seemingly conscienceless people I've ever had the misfortune of knowing.  My aunt is an alcoholic who gave birth to five children and raised NONE of them (she had custody excepting the multiple times they were taken away, just didn't really raise them); to say nothing of the danger she exposed them to due to her selfishness and inability to exist outside a romantic relationship.  One of my female cousins is intolerably self-righteous and blatantly self-centered.  I sometimes feel as though my grandmother, aunt, and the aforementioned cousin are all slightly different versions of the same person.  All of this having been said...

 

All you really need is one good role model.  Or, ideally, one excellent one: that would be my mother.  Though I've had other female role models (fictional and otherwise), it took just this one extraordinary woman to keep the scale tipped towards, "Oh, so women can also be awesome."  Though I'm certain I've failed at times, I try not to take the unconditional love I receive from my mother for granted.  "Well she's your mother, she's supposed to be that way."  There are other "mothers" in my family that aren't like that at all; they don't hold a candle.  Their children have suffered because of it.  I don't love and esteem my mother because she is my mother.  I do so because she is more than worthy of my love and esteem.

 

And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention how she let me watch everything from Care Bears to Ninja Turtles to Pippi Longstocking to Transformers to Rainbow Brite to Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (female protagonist) to some vaguely recalled early gen My Little Pony.

 

I guess my pushing-towards on-topic point is that it only takes one.  It's quality, not quantity, and just one positive influence can well outweigh the negative ones and give you the more lasting and important impression.

Edited September 20, 2014 by PegaMister

[Simon 4,557]

Alright everybody, the feminism debate is going to end on this thread right here.

 

We already have a place to debate feminism in the debate pit.  There's absolutely no reason to be debating feminism on this thread.  The OP asked whether we felt My Little Pony should have more positive male role models.  This thread had only a very minimal connection with feminism, so turning this thread into a debate on feminism and women's right issues is completely off topic.  Please take this debate to the debate pit thread linked above, or leave it off the forum completely.

 

Please be sure to stay on topic in this thread so that it can stay open for everybody to discuss.  If you see any off-topic posts, please report them and do not respond so that the discussion in the thread will stay on topic.

 

Thanks everybody!