Celestia vs Luna

[blank 88]

Evenly matched? For that to work, you have to make her stronger than Discord, which is sheer insanity, seeing as how Discord smashed Celestia and Luna's collective butts with no effort

 

 

Also, that's not holding it back. Her beam was forced back the entire time

 

Luna hasn't really shown any combat intelligence

 

 

That was Nightmare Moon doing it and in the first case, something was up, in their last fight, Nightmare Moon went through quite some trouble to catch her

the fact that she was able to push the rainbow beam back once or twice, says something, she only won because of the elements.

[Hive King 2,001]

the fact that she was able to push the rainbow beam back once or twice, says something, she only won because of the elements.

Welp, the case is over. Nightmare Moon is stronger than Discord, lol

 

This point is moot, by the way, the threat title is Celestia vs Luna, not Celestia vs NMM

[blank 88]

Welp, the case is over. Nightmare Moon is stronger than Discord, lol

 

This point is moot, by the way, the threat title is Celestia vs Luna, not Celestia vs NMM

NMM has the same power as Luna, just being possesed by nightmare forces.

 

Discord can win easily because he can bend really and magic off unicorn horns...oh and he is unpredictable and so is his magic, celly and Luna were younger too...

[Hive King 2,001]

NMM has the same power as Luna, just being possesed by nightmare forces.

 

Discord can win easily because he can bend really and magic off unicorn horns...oh and he is unpredictable and so is his magic, celly and Luna were younger too...

He still whipped their butts in the present.

 

And we saw with Tirek that his magic doesn't affect those stronger than him, so no. 

 

And if you wish to bring in the comics, Rarity got stronger when possessed by the nightmare forces. Luna must have too

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

Also, that's not holding it back. Her beam was forced back the entire time

Actually, no.  The first time the two beams collided, she pushed back the beam from the EoH.  Watch closely, and slow down the video if you need to.

 

Ps: I believe Luna woukd be smarter than to just 1v1 a creature who is using a kind of life force for power, Luna hasn't really shown any combat intelligence

Combat intelligence is the knowledge of how to fight.  What Nightmare Jerremy was saying is that Luna would have more common sense.

 

in their last fight, Nightmare Moon went through quite some trouble to catch her

Nightmare Moon wasn't trying to catch Celestia, she was trying to shoot her.  To put this into perspective, try using a sniper rifle to hit a strafing player in any Call of Duty game.  If you're good, it shouldn't be too difficult, but it would be a lot harder hitting a moving target (as was the case in the NIghtmare Moon vs. Celestia fight) than hitting a stationary target.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Actually, no.  The first time the two beams collided, she pushed back the beam from the EoH.  Watch closely, and slow down the video if you need to.

She moved it back a foot. That's not impressive when 5 second later, she gets wrecked. Also, Celestia's connection to the Elements as weird, she couldn't purify Luna while the Mane 6 could

 

 

Combat intelligence is the knowledge of how to fight.  What Nightmare Jerremy was saying is that Luna would have more common sense.

This would be the same pony who screams all the time and doesn't know the meaning of subtlety, yes?

 

 

Nightmare Moon wasn't trying to catch Celestia, she was trying to shoot her.  To put this into perspective, try using a sniper rifle to hit a strafing player in any Call of Duty game.  If you're good, it shouldn't be too difficult, but it would be a lot harder hitting a moving target (as was the case in the NIghtmare Moon vs. Celestia fight) than hitting a stationary target.

That still makes her aim really crappy or it makes Celestia's flying skills very good 

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

She moved it back a foot. That's not impressive when 5 second later, she gets wrecked. Also, Celestia's connection to the Elements as weird, she couldn't purify Luna while the Mane 6 could

She still pushed it back.  You stated, earlier, that she didn't push it back once.  You were wrong.

 

This would be the same pony who screams all the time and doesn't know the meaning of subtlety, yes?

That maybe so.  I'm saying you either didn't understand Jerremy's post or you don't know what combat intelligence is.

 

That still makes her aim really crappy or it makes Celestia's flying skills very good 

To put this into even GREATER perspective, try hitting a bird moving at a speed of 10-20 mph with a sniper rifle.  In Call of Duty, people can't fly nor can they run very fast. 

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

To put this into even GREATER perspective, try hitting a bird moving at a speed of 10-20 mph with a sniper rifle.  In Call of Duty, people can't fly nor can they run very fast. 

Okay then, you agree that Celestia can dance around blasts all day and if so inclined, could return fire?

 

Also, using Nightmare Moon feats =/= Luna feats.

 

They're not the same thing 

[Plato's Pony 455]

Okay then, you agree that Celestia can dance around blasts all day and if so inclined, could return fire?

I AM NOT saying this!!!! I never said Celestia could dance around blasts all day, I said it's difficult to hit a moving target!!!  And, I never said anything about Celestia returning fire!!!  Come on, stop backing up all your claims with your own ASSUMPTIONS and start backing up your claims with FACTS. 

 

 

 

Nightmare Moon wasn't trying to catch Celestia, she was trying to shoot her.  To put this into perspective, try using a sniper rifle to hit a strafing player in any Call of Duty game.  If you're good, it shouldn't be too difficult, but it would be a lot harder hitting a moving target (as was the case in the NIghtmare Moon vs. Celestia fight) than hitting a stationary target.

(I know it says Hive King said this, but I was the one who originally said this.  I am merely quoting Hive King's quote of me.  Sorry for any confusion) This is what I said before.  I never mentioned anything about Celestia able to dodge blasts all day and I never said anything about her returning fire.

 

To put this into even GREATER perspective, try hitting a bird moving at a speed of 10-20 mph with a sniper rifle.  In Call of Duty, people can't fly nor can they run very fast. 

This is my other post regarding this mini-debate.  Again, notice I never said anything about Celestia being able to dodge blasts all day nor did I mention her returning fire.

 

 

 

Also, using Nightmare Moon feats =/= Luna feats.   They're not the same thing 

 For all we know, Luna COULD POSSIBLY have the same powers and abilities as Nightmare Moon.  We do not have enough evidence, and so, therefore, this argument is invalid.

Edited November 5, 2014 by MLP Enthusiast

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

I AM NOT saying this!!!! I never said Celestia could dance around blasts all day, I said it's difficult to hit a moving target!!!  And, I never said anything about Celestia returning fire!!!  Come on, stop backing up all your claims with your own ASSUMPTIONS and start backing up your claims with FACTS. 

You said that NMM couldn't hit Celestia because she was moving around too much, Celestia wasn't trying to fire back. It's simple logic from there

 

 

For all we know, Luna COULD POSSIBLY have the same powers and abilities as Nightmare Moon.  We do not have enough evidence, and so, therefore, this argument is invalid.

And so is yours. Irony

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

You said that NMM couldn't hit Celestia because she was moving around too much

Nightmare Moon wasn't trying to catch Celestia, she was trying to shoot her.  To put this into perspective, try using a sniper rifle to hit a strafing player in any Call of Duty game.  If you're good, it shouldn't be too difficult, but it would be a lot harder hitting a moving target (as was the case in the NIghtmare Moon vs. Celestia fight) than hitting a stationary target.

No.  Anyone who has the ability to read can see that this is not true.

 

 

 

And so is yours. Irony

 Okay then.  Where's your proof?

Edited November 6, 2014 by MLP Enthusiast

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

No.  Anyone who has the ability to read can see that this is not true.

So you are denying yourself? Okay

 

 

Okay then.  Where's your proof?

Chrysalis's statements, Celestia being the elder, having had 1,000 years to study new magic, and being the more dominant of the two 

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

Okay then.  Where's your proof? Chrysalis's statements, Celestia being the elder, having had 1,000 years to study new magic, and being the more dominant of the two 

I was asking for proof that my claim was invalid, but whatever.

 

 

 

So you are denying yourself? Okay

Read the edit.  I forgot to add a quote.

 

 

 

Chrysalis's statements

Chrysalis never says "Celestia is more powerful than Luna" or something along those lines.  If she did, that would be proof and I would respect your claim.  Watch the wedding episode, if you want proof of my claim.

 

 

 

Celestia being the elder

That's true, but you need proof that Celestia is more powerful than Luna because she is older.  Therefore, this is not proof regarding your argument, but an assumption on your part.  You want to find "Since Celestia was 5 years older than Luna, she was more powerful" or something like that in the series.

 

 

 

having had 1,000 years to study new magic

Oh, really?  Show me the episode stating that Celestia spent 1,000 years learning new magic while her sister was trapped in the moon.

 

 

 

and being the more dominant of the two

That is just your opinion.  Some people may say that Luna was more dominant than Celestia.  Look up the word "dominant" in the dictionary.

 

Still, no proof regarding your claims.  Just your opinions and assumptions.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Chrysalis never says "Celestia is more powerful than Luna" or something along those lines.  If she did, that would be proof and I would respect your claim.  Watch the wedding episode, if you want proof of my claim.

She's unafraid of Luna and was ecstatic after defeating Celestia. Her happiness would be stupid if Luna were stronger

 

 

That's true, but you need proof that Celestia is more powerful than Luna because she is older.  Therefore, this is not proof regarding your argument, but an assumption on your part.  You want to find "Since Celestia was 5 years older than Luna, she was more powerful" or something like that in the series.

General stereotype. The elder sibling is typically the stronger, on average. But this isn't the best, true

 

 

Oh, really?  Show me the episode stating that Celestia spent 1,000 years learning new magic while her sister was trapped in the moon.

She runs a school for gifted unicorns and has a library of magic, I'm sure she picked up some new tricks while Luna rotted

 

 

That is just your opinion.  Some people may say that Luna was more dominant than Celestia.  Look up the word "dominant" in the dictionary.

Luna felt she wasn't getting enough attention and that she should be in sole charge of Equestria. That's previous dominance on Celestia's part 

[Pixie Doodle 144]

I see a lot of ponies saying Celestia, but I have to disagree.
Both sisters are powerful. I have no doubt that Luna could do what Celestia. 
But, if you think of it in a more tactical sort of way, Celestia wouldn't expect it, so Luna already has the drop on her because of that. And I feel Luna would me more aggressive and prone to delving into her darker side, so she'd be more sadistic and wielding the power of Nightmare Moon again.
It is a tough one. I think it'd depend on circumstances.
Even though, to me, they are very close, in an actual throne room brawl, I'd put my money on Luna.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Pixie Doodle

[Princess-Sunbutt 268]

Celestia wins, no contest. Game over man, game over....

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

She's unafraid of Luna and was ecstatic after defeating Celestia

She never said she was unafraid of Luna, nor did she act like it.  If I remember, she never even mentioned Luna.

 

 

 

I'm sure she picked up some new tricks while Luna rotted

"I'm sure she picked up some new tricks..." - That's what's called a guess

"...while Luna rotted" - another guess (unless Luna was dead inside some kind of tank of bacteria, she could not have rotted.  You need bacteria to rot, and there is no oxygen on the moon (bacteria need oxygen to survive))

 

 

 

Luna felt she wasn't getting enough attention and that she should be in sole charge of Equestria. That's previous dominance on Celestia's part 

 Luna may have felt that she was the non-dominant one between the two, but that does not necessarily mean she was the non-dominant one.

 

 

Celestia wins, no contest. Game over man, game over....

Hey, no claims without proof!!!  Your argument is invalid. 

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Pixie Doodle,

The OP says they start off in the throne room. There is no sneak attack and both are going full out 

 

 

She never said she was unafraid of Luna, nor did she act like it.  If I remember, she never even mentioned Luna

The fact that she didn't mention her is enough to say she isn't afraid

 

 

I'm sure she picked up some new tricks..." - That's what's called a guess

She runs a school for unicorns, did you think she derped around the entire time? Celestia is a smart mare and the head of that school

 

 

"...while Luna rotted" - another guess (unless Luna was dead inside some kind of tank of bacteria, she could not have rotted.  You need bacteria to rot, and there is no oxygen on the moon (bacteria need oxygen to survive))

It's an expression that she was unable to study anything or train against anything noteworthy

 

 

Luna may have felt that she was the non-dominant one between the two, but that does not necessarily mean she was the non-dominant one.

So Luna's thoughts are now incorrect, okay

[Plato's Pony 455]

The fact that she didn't mention her is enough to say she isn't afraid

No, it does not.  There is a POSSIBILITY that she was just concealing her fears.

 

 

 

She runs a school for unicorns, did you think she derped around the entire time?

If I was Celestia, I would just derp around the entire time.

 

 

 

It's an expression that she was unable to study anything or train against anything noteworthy

For all we know, there could have been books filled with pony knowledge of magic for her to study, and, for all we know, Discord could have teleported to the moon and gave Luna combat training.

 

 

 

So Luna's thoughts are now incorrect, okay

 I'm not saying her thoughts were incorrect, I'm saying it's a possibility.  People underestimate themselves all the time.

Edited November 6, 2014 by MLP Enthusiast

[Pixie Doodle 144]

@@Hive King
Ah right! Got a head of myself there it seems. x3
I'd still have to say Luna.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

No, it does not.  There is a POSSIBILITY that she was just concealing her fears.

Chrysalis isn't the type to do that. She freely admitted that Shining Armor's love was stronger than she thought, meaning she flat out said she was wrong. If Luna was a threat, she'd be surrounding herself with Changelings and juicing up, that's how paranoid she is

 

 

If I was Celestia, I would just derp around the entire time.  

This is the mare who's the most hands on princess ever, right? 

 

 

For all we know, there could have been books filled with pony knowledge of magic for her to study, and, for all we know, Discord could have teleported to the moon and gave Luna combat training.

On the Moon there are books? And Discord was frozen in stone at the time.

 

I'm not saying her thoughts were incorrect, I'm saying it's a possibility.  People underestimate themselves all the time.

But she has never corrected herself on this, not ever. She just says that her reasoning was childish 

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

Chrysalis isn't the type to do that. She freely admitted that Shining Armor's love was stronger than she thought, meaning she flat out said she was wrong

Yeah, she admitted she was wrong about her initial thoughts on the power of Shining Armor's love, but she never said she was unafraid of Luna nor did she say she was afraid of Luna.

 

 

 

If Luna was a threat, she'd be surrounding herself with Changelings and juicing up, that's how paranoid she is

That's your assumption, not necessarily fact.

 

 

 

This is the mare who's the most hands on princess ever, right? 

I don't know, it's your opinion.

 

 

 

On the Moon there are books?

This is the pony universe, Uranus could be made of cheese for all we know.

 

 

 

Discord was frozen in stone at the time

Maybe a combat-training robot landed on the moon and gave Luna some lessons.

 

 

 

She just says that her reasoning was childish 

Where does she say that in the series?

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Yeah, she admitted she was wrong about her initial thoughts on the power of Shining Armor's love, but she never said she was unafraid of Luna nor did she say she was afraid of Luna.  

Luna is the only other threat to her power, would she not worthy some note?

 

 

That's your assumption, not necessarily fact.

She overestimated Celestia's power and clearly wanted to get more power before dropping the disguise. She's a very preppy person

 

 

This is the pony universe, Uranus could be made of cheese for all we know.   Hive King, on 05 Nov 2014 - 8:00 PM, said: Discord was frozen in stone at the time Maybe a combat-training robot landed on the moon and gave Luna some lessons.

Luna is dumbass who wants Celestia's horn inside of her and is constantly horny for more of her horn fetish

 

After all, pony universe

 

 

Where does she say that in the series?

She compares her judgement to Sweetie Belle, an 8 year old 

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

Luna is the only other threat to her power, would she not worthy some note?

 

Well, she wouldn't say it to anyone's face, would she?  As soon as she says "Luna is a threat to my power" everyone is gonna be like "Come on, let's wake Luna up and tell her she has an ass to kick!!" and then Chrysalis is gonna be like "Oh, no, why did I have to say that out loud?"

 

 

 

She overestimated Celestia's power and clearly wanted to get more power before dropping the disguise.

 Twilight blew her cover.  I doubt she was gonna blow the disguise before sucking up some more love.

 

 

 

Luna is dumbass who wants Celestia's horn inside of her and is constantly horny for more of her horn fetish

 WOAH WOAH WOAH!!! BIAS AND HATEFUL LANGUAGE ALERT!!! BIAS AND HATEFUL LANGUAGE ALERT!!!

 

 

 

She compares her judgement to Sweetie Belle, an 8 year old 

 

 

Princess Luna said: "I, too, have a sister who often shines more brightly than me"  Notice the word, "often".  She is not saying her sister ALWAYS shines more brightly than her.

 

 

 

 

Btw, don't show your bias or hate during a debate.  A debate is all about proving your side of the argument is true, and does not involve any hate or "inappropriate language" directed at others who hold a different side of the argument.  In fact, showing hate or bias goes against your own argument, since it shows others that you are very narrow-minded towards the topic.  Straight out of speech and debate club.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Well, she wouldn't say it to anyone's face, would she?  As soon as she says "Luna is a threat to my power" everyone is gonna be like "Come on, let's wake Luna up and tell her she has an ass to kick!!" and then Chrysalis is gonna be like "Oh, no, why did I have to say that out loud?"

Luna sleeps on the moon, they can't do that

 

 

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!! BIAS AND HATEFUL LANGUAGE ALERT!!! BIAS AND HATEFUL LANGUAGE ALERT!!!

I was being sarcastic and comparing that to your ridiculous notions that there are books on the Moon and Discord gave Luna combat training

 

 

Princess Luna said: "I, too, have a sister who often shines more brightly than me"  Notice the word, "often".  She is not saying her sister ALWAYS shines more brightly than her.

Notice how Sweetie Belle's reactions are utterly irrational. You can disguise it all you want, but Luna's judgement was immature

 

 

Btw, don't show your bias or hate during a debate.  A debate is all about proving your side of the argument is true, and does not involve any hate or "inappropriate language" directed at others who hold a different side of the argument.  In fact, showing hate or bias goes against your own argument, since it shows others that you are very narrow-minded towards the topic.  Straight out of speech and debate club.

You are the one claiming that there are giant robots on the Moon for Luna to train with