Is Celestia really the right ruler for the job?

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Cleverclover, 

Can you back this up? I admit, the fact the writers seem disinterested in developing Celestia's character or go into want she actually does while the Mane Six save the day doesn't help, but you can really only criticize a few of her discisions. Even then you don't have enough of the 'full picture' to really complain, only bits and pieces of the situation.

Edited January 16, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Fractured 2,683]

@,

I feel a full 4 seasons of character development and growth from Twilight, will for the most part prove effective in assuring Twilight wont become evil or corrupt as an alicorn princess thus becoming a threat to Equestria. Heck, Celestia has had a 1000+ years to fall from grace yet she hasn't thus proving that power does not always corrupt.

I was actually responding to Roughshod's statement that Celestia should have made Twilight an alicorn much sooner, Crystal Empire, if not before that. I'm not sure that would have been the best idea.

 

 

Oh, please. We're talking about the same pony who can apparently bring herself to the point of wanting to take a life, and then just snap right back to normal, mentally unscathed. Twilight is virtually incorruptible. 

 

 

Everything in this episode:

Edited January 16, 2015 by Shimmer5000

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@,

I can agree with that, it wouldn't have been for the better if Twilight became an alicorn before she did. 

[Dulset Tarn 441]

So I'm not sure how on-topic this is, and I'm sure the point has been made countless times in the past but...

Twilight has proven time and time again to be completely worthless without her friends, only able to succeed with them at her side. Not once was she able to solve a problem in her own, unless you count things like Winter Wrap Up. Now I know that's sort of the point of being Princes of Friendship, but think about that in comparison to this.

Fluttershy took the Princesses' worst nemesis and made him a good guy, on her own, without support. That's kinda way more impressive that ANYTHING Twilight has done, even with all her friends constantly supporting her. Why doesn't Fluttershy get a freaking crown for that?

[Cleverclover 1,525]

 

 

Can you back this up? I admit, the fact the writers seem disinterested in developing Celestia's character or go into want she actually does while the Mane Six ave the day doesn't help, but you can really only criticize a few of her discisions. Even then you don't have enough of the 'full picture' to really complain only bits and pieces.

 

Can I back---? 

 

You have seen Twilight's Kingdom, haven't you? That's all the evidence you need right there. Not one decision Celestia made helped the crisis, and instead did just the opposite:

 

"I know what to do! Let's let Discord be the one to deal with Tirek! Surely, we can trust him completely, right? Yep, there's no reason at all to think that we need an ulterior or backup plan of any sort because Discord's got this!"  

 

"Well, that plan fell through, but it's okay because I've got an even better one! Let's transfer all of our power to Twilight and hope that Tirek never finds out about a fourth alicorn, even though Discord would have easily had more than enough opportunity to tell him! It's genius!!!!" 

 

"Twilight, you must not tell your friends about your increased power, because less support you have, the better. Also, they would most likely get captured and stuff, and surely that would not happen if they were to remain ignorant. So...good luck to you, then." 

 

Uhh, yeah, Equestria needs a new ruler ASAP. 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Dulset Tarn,

Please it is not based on that, heck all Cadance did to become an alicorn was defeat a witch that was attacking her village with love. It is the realization of an ideal that led Twilight to becoming an alicorn. That and lets note that without Twilight not a single one of the major threats that Equestria faced recently would have been defeated. Nightmare Moon would have brouht eternal night, as the others didn't have a clue what was going on, Discord would have then come around and turned the land to chaos, and King Sombra would have regained control of the Crystal Empire without a challange, and the changlings... well they may admittingly have to look elsewhere for food since Equestria would be a living hell at that point.

 

Twilight is the key stone, with the pieces of the arc her friends. Without her the arc would fall along with Equestria, but without her friends Twilight would have never risen up to the height she is now.

 

@@Cleverclover,

That is one episode, and the fridge logic has already been pointed out for it.

 

Though I will note that Celestia was trusting Discord given his good behavior and because there wasn't at the time reason to doubt him, with hope later not that he was still on their side.... putting aside my own 'dislike' of Discord reform and finding the whole of his development not to my liking. I feel the writers wrote themselves in a corner with how they handed Discord' reform.

Edited January 16, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Dulset Tarn 441]

@@Dulset Tarn,

Please it is not based on that, heck all Cadance did to become an alicorn was defeat a witch that was attacking her village with love. It is the realization of an ideal that led Twilight to becoming an alicorn. That and lets note that without Twilight not a single one of the major threats that Equestria faced recently would have been defeated. Nightmare Moon would have brouht eternal night, as the others didn't have a clue what was going on, Discord would have then come around and turned the land to chaos, and King Sombra would have regained control of the Crystal Empire without a challange, and the changlings... well they may admittingly have to look elsewhere for food since Equestria would be a living hell at that point.

 

Twilight is the key stone, with the pieces of the arc her friends. Without her the arc would fall along with Equestria, but without her friends Twilight would have never risen up to the height she is now.

So logically, Fluttershy gets just as much credit for Twilight's accomplishments as Twilight does. But Fluttershy reformed Discord while Twilight already gave up.

 

Oh, and even if this "realization of an ideal makes you an alicorn" headcanon is true, it has nothing to do with becoming a princess.

[Fractured 2,683]

So I'm not sure how on-topic this is, and I'm sure the point has been made countless times in the past but...

Twilight has proven time and time again to be completely worthless without her friends, only able to succeed with them at her side. Not once was she able to solve a problem in her own, unless you count things like Winter Wrap Up. Now I know that's sort of the point of being Princes of Friendship, but think about that in comparison to this.

Fluttershy took the Princesses' worst nemesis and made him a good guy, on her own, without support. That's kinda way more impressive that ANYTHING Twilight has done, even with all her friends constantly supporting her. Why doesn't Fluttershy get a freaking crown for that?

Because a Princess also has to be a good leader, and despite her abilities, Fluttershy would make a terrible leader. For one, it requires not holding your personal feelings above others, which we've seen Fluttershy is not very good at. It also requires clear thinking and mental stability, at the least... Fluttershy's not too good at that either.

 

Of course, relying on your friends isn't a weakness. Quite the opposite; it's takes a lot of strength to realize that you can't always do things alone.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Because a Princess also has to be a good leader, and despite her abilities, Fluttershy would make a terrible leader. For one, it requires not holding your personal feelings above others, which we've seen Fluttershy is not very good at. It also requires clear thinking and mental stability, at the least... Fluttershy's not too good at that either.

 

Of course, relying on your friends isn't a weakness. Quite the opposite; it's takes a lot of strength to realize that you can't always do things alone.

But everything we've seen of Twilight since she became a princess is a testament to how bad of a leader she is.

 

Which is strangely ironic considering she actually used to be a good leader.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

So logically, Fluttershy gets just as much credit for Twilight's accomplishments as Twilight does. But Fluttershy reformed Discord while Twilight already gave up.

 

Oh, and even if this "realization of an ideal makes you an alicorn" headcanon is true, it has nothing to do with becoming a princess.

Well that is the thing, while it was through the help of her friends that Twilight overcame the threats before her... she was the leading/driving force in overcoming such challenges. She has proven she would made a good leader, and has many of the traits needed to become such. Unlike any of her friends, her destiny has from the beginning proven to be something greater. As the personal student of Celestia, her talent for magic itself, her organization and willingness to take the lead, along with the purpose of being personally trained by Celestia all point to her being becoming a leader.

Edited January 16, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Cleverclover 1,525]

@, I see now that you were referring simply to unicorn Twilight, in which case, I could understand your concern. It's only the flawless alicorn Twilight who is incorruptible. Therefore, as it stands now, it's not an issue. 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Fluttershy has never shown any greater interest then taking care of animals.

Rarity's drive and motivation has always been to be a famous fashion designer.

Rainbow Dash's goal has always been to become a member of the Wonder Bolts.

Applejack has shown no greater focus then in her family and running the farm.

Pinkie Pie has shown little more then wishing to be the best party pony around.

 

Twilight, though has shown so much more. A gifted unicorn with a special talent in magic, personally trained and mentored by the greatest authority figure in Equestria in a 1000 years, the one to lead in the rediscovery of the Elements of Harmony and with her friends rising up to face challenges that few ponies would even dream of. Twilight's friends are her companions in the journey of discovery of who she is and in learning what friendship is. This is Twilight Sparkle, this is the one who would become an alicorn and princess.

Edited January 16, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Dulset Tarn 441]

As the personal student of Celestia, her talent for magic itself, her organization and willingness to take the lead, along with the purpose of being personally trained by Celestia all point to her being becoming a leader.

That's of course ignoring how everything she's done since becoming a princess showcases how bad of a leader she is.

 

 

Fluttershy has never shown any greater interest then taking care of animals.

Rarity's drive and motivation has always been to be a famous fashion designer.

Rainbow Dash's goal has always been to become a member of the Wonder Bolts.

Applejack has shown no greater focus then in her family and running the farm.

Pinkie Pie has shown little more then wishing to be the best party pony around.

Twilight has never shown any concern beyond being a good student and learning about magic.

FTFY, you're welcome

[GreyScholar 1,584]

FTFY, you're welcome

Please do not change my post without permission! I am not appreciative of such changing of my post, especially since the rest does still apply.

 

 

That's of course ignoring how everything she's done since becoming a princess showcases how bad of a leader she is.

Well she was never really given any royal duties after becoming a princess, that is the problem. Also not fully true, when Celestia and Luna disappear she stepped up and took charge as a leader should in Princess Twilight Sparkle.

Edited January 16, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Dulset Tarn 441]

when Celestia and Luna disappear she stepped up and took charge as a leader should in Princess Twilight Sparkle.

The point of that was to show she did a terrible job. She had no idea how to be a leader, and that hasn't changed. That was seriously the whole point of those scenes.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Dulset Tarn,

When the royal guards came to her for guidance what did Twilight do, what of the citizens? The only mistake she make was leaving her friends to find they Tree of Harmony by themselves, after being pressured into doing such by them and she came right back after Discord spoke with her. She is young and not perfect.

 

Stop demanding perfection from Equestrian leaders. Heck if we were to even begin to apply real world standards Luna would have been given life imprisonment if not killed for almost, if inadvertently, committing genocide of her subjects if she succeeded in bringing eternal night... though I don't believe there are any laws for a leader that has been possessed by a dark force.

Edited January 16, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Cleverclover 1,525]

 

 

She is young and not perfect.

 

She's getting there, though. Definitely getting there.  

[Dulset Tarn 441]

@@Dulset Tarn,

When the royal guards came to her for guidance what did Twilight do, what of the citizens?

No really, what did she do?

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Cleverclover,

Someone that is perfect wouldn't be able to make mistakes at all.

 

No really, what did she do?

She took charge, kept others calm, and offered direction without freaking out herself while doing so.

Edited January 16, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Cleverclover 1,525]

 

 

Someone that is perfect wouldn't be able to make mistakes at all.

 

And, for the most part, Twilight does not.  

[Dulset Tarn 441]

She took charge, kept others calm, and offered direction without freaking out herself while doing so.

Ha, no, no she didn't. She did nothing. She just said "Uh, just keep doing the usual" and left.

Go on, show me one instance of good leadership since she became a princess.

 

Again, the irony is that she really used to be a good leader, such as in the opening or Return of Harmony. Then comes Magical Mystery Cure and her friends are literally just pawns to be used on each other without even giving them the time of day.

And, for the most part, Twilight does not.  

Doesn't Twilight only make mistakes?

[GreyScholar 1,584]

And, for the most part, Twilight does not.  

Well while I wouldn't fully agree with that I would counter that Twilight has had 4 seasons to develop and learn as a character, thus get to the point where she wouldn't make a lot of mistakes.

 

 

Doesn't Twilight only make mistakes?

Sighs I think I am done for the day, you have already tired me out. I think I will sit back and see who else posts and come back later. 

Edited January 16, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Cleverclover 1,525]

 

 

Well while I wouldn't fully agree with that I would counter that Twilight has had 4 seasons to develop and learn as a character, thus get to the point where she wouldn't make a lot of mistakes.

 

In any case, Twilight now makes Celestia look like a joke. I'd definitely say that she's ready to take the throne right now.  

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Cleverclover,

I disagree, but that is for another day. 

[RainbowTashie 378]

I think it's the writing that's messing them up. They're making Celestia the hurdle that Twi has to overcome, and that makes her character seem idiotic and somewhat of a troll. I think that if they included her in the fight, but then make her fail due to her 'old age' and being out of a fight for so long she would seem more interesting.

 

This is why I like the Chrys -vs- Celes thing in 'A Canterlot Wedding', she was shown to be weak and someday she won't be able to fight anymore.

Celestia's just a pussy. and let's twi do the dirty :/ she talks about all the time she conquered villains but i swear shes full of hot air she's worse than trixie