Jesus Not Born On December 25, 1 A.D?

[Denim&Venöm 18,989]

I remember watching a program on Nat Geo w/ my folks on what the Star of Bethlehem could have been, when it mentioned that astronomical records compared to the bible indicated that Jesus wouldn't have been born in the established time of 1 A.D. but more between 2-7 B.C. Funny, that the timeline we use for everything is inaccurate.

 

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/what-year-was-jesus-born-the-answer-may-surprise-you

 

Also, line sin the bible contradict Jesus being born in Winter, like Shepherds tending their flocks (not in the winter) and that Mary & Joseph traveled for the roman census (done in the summer where roads are clearest)

 

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/biblical-evidence-shows-jesus-christ-wasnt-born-dec-25/

 

So if this information were broadly publicized, how would it affect the celebration of Christmas in the religious sense?

[Steel Accord 6,660]

In the religious sense? Not very much. I mean, haven't you ever celebrated someone's birthday even if it wasn't on that specific day?

 

The importance of Christmas is that Jesus was born at all; the timing is just traditionally convenient.

[A Black Circle 1,586]

I personally belive He was born on winter solstice.

Darkest day of the year.

Makes sense.

As for the year? I always believed it was a bit before 1 AD. Just a bit. Like, 5 years or so.

[Trixie Heartstrings 434]

December 25th was originally a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. The other pagan tradition is the Christmas tree. It pretty much has been broadly publicized, but there's too much people in denial for it to affect anything. Look at Kirk Cameron's recent film Saving Christmas. In the movie, he "explains" how Santa and the tree tie in to the birth of Jesus. It's barely 2 months old, but this is almost as infamous as the Star Wars Holiday Special.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,499]

Well, in a religious sense, Christmas is a Pagan holiday. Many of the traditions associated with the holiday come straight from its Pagan roots. So I don't think that would affect it at all on a technical sense.

 

As for it being Jesus's birthdate, if he did exist, I have heard that many biblical scholars have thought he might have been born in the spring or summer months. Also, the BC/AD dating system was not actually fully implemented until a few centuries after his supposed death.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

December 25th was originally a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. The other pagan tradition is the Christmas tree. It pretty much has been broadly publicized, but there's too much people in denial for it to affect anything. Look at Kirk Cameron's recent film Saving Christmas. In the movie, he "explains" how Santa and the tree tie in to the birth of Jesus. It's barely 2 months old, but this is almost as infamous as the Star Wars Holiday Special.

 

Well even if people weren't "in denial" as you put it. Why should it be changed? It's a time of year that many religions have considered sacred. Why is it so important that the birth of Jesus be celebrated on the dot? You think He cares if we're off by a few months?

Edited January 6, 2015 by Steel Accord

[A Black Circle 1,586]

Well even if people weren't "in denial" as you put it. Why should it be changed? It's a time of year that many religions have considered sacred. Why is it so important that the birth of Jesus be celebrated on the dot? You think He cares if were off by a few months?

Jesus Christ

Born 21/06/-4

(Maybe)

[catnet 9,356]

In a religious sense? I doubt it'd make any difference. Christians are meant to be busy celebrating the spirit of the Bible, not fussing over the details. December 25th most likely isn't his birthday (provided he ever existed at all...), but at least deciding on a certain day for it does help with the symbolism...

[Misty Rose 3,216]

I personally strongly disagree that he was born on the 25th due to some videos me and my mom watched about two years ago

 

First of all, he couldn't have been born during winter. It mentions in the Bible that there were shepherds out looking after their sheep when they found out Jesus had been born. That's not at all possible during winter since it snows hard in Israel during that time. That's not a good time for pasturing sheep or for a baby to be born in what was really a stable, baby Jesus could have frozen to death

 

Also there's also the whole thing about the 25th originally being a pagan holiday and all

Edited January 6, 2015 by Pink Mist

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

Also there's also the whole thing about the 25th originally being a pagan holiday and all

 

Yeah, it was . . . . your point?

 

(Not trying to sound combative, just curious.) 

 

 

(provided he ever existed at all...)

 

Most people are pretty damn certain that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person. Plenty of documentation attests to His existence. Whether He was the son of God, I don't know and no one can. 

[A Black Circle 1,586]

I think he was born on the brightest day of the year.

You could argue the day became so light because of him, though that'd require some more in-depth studies to confirm/deconfirm anything

[catnet 9,356]

Most people are pretty damn certain that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person. Plenty of documentation attests to His existence. Whether He was the son of God, I don't know and no one can. 

Historically, I'd say it's quite probable he was real, actually. It's him being the Son of God I'm not certain about; I should probably have stated that in the first place. :/

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Historically, I'd say it's quite probable he was real, actually. It's him being the Son of God I'm not certain about; I should probably have stated that in the first place. :/

 

Sorry about quoting you on that then. It is of course, your choice what you have faith in (if anything) but it grinds my gears when people claim that Jesus didn't exist at all.

 

In line with this topic's purpose, we take the life of Jesus very seriously. He is, after all, someone we attempt to emulate in His compassion and wisdom. Again, whether He was born on the day we traditionally celebrate Christmas is not as important as the event itself occurring at all.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Red Cedar 1,408]

It's pretty well documented that the early church chose the December date for Christmas not because that was when he was born but because it was close to the dates if a lot of Roman and Pagan festivals that were widely known and celebrated. I've also heard of Biblical historians who surmise that the Wise Men didn't actually appear until about 4 A.D.

[KiwiPony 125]

Well it's like a Birthday party, I'm sorry I can't remember the full reason why Christmas was chosen as the date of celebration but its because there was already an event on that date and Christ's followers rejected the original event on that day and celebrated Christ's birth (I believe, its something like that)

But the important part is that he was born. Also, for future religious questions, I wouldn't advise watching Nat Geo Docos, they do twist words and scripture, they used scripture from "the bible" which was never put in because of historical reasons which defeats it's own purpose. If you'd like to learn about religion you really need to research it yourself All the best to you

[Misty Rose 3,216]

Yeah, it was . . . . your point?

 

(Not trying to sound combative, just curious.)

 

 

Most people are pretty damn certain that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person. Plenty of documentation attests to His existence. Whether He was the son of God, I don't know and no one can.

My point on that was it's another reason why I disagree on that being his birthday Since we can't know for certain the date he was born, I don't think it's fitting to celebrate that on such a day with bad origins

[sweetolebob18 728]

Isaac Asimov once wrote one of his articles on this (sorry I'm VERY bad at names & can't recall the title).  His point was that, by the Bible accounts, the 3 Wise Men had to tell the king about their star and the king was surprised.  This was about 1600 years before telescopes were invented & thus the Wise Men couldn't possibly see anything the king couldn't see just by stepping outdoors on any dark, clear night.  His idea was that this meant it was something a casual observer would miss but a careful observer would see.  To him, this ruled out the usual suspects (Nova, comet, etc.) & suggested it could have been an unusual astrological event.  He suggested some conjunction in 6 BC as likely.

 

The shepherds watching over their flocks could be any time, but would be least likely in winter & most likely at lambing time (around Easter).  Historians believe the date was fixed at Dec 25 because this was about the time of the Roman holiday Saturnalia.

 

IIRC, the date of his birth was set in the Middle Ages when some bishop added up the ages of everyone in the bible to set the dates for various events.  Many people believe he got it wrong

 

But no, IMO the religious significance of the holiday has nothing to do w the calendar date.

Edited January 6, 2015 by sweetolebob18

[Steel Accord 6,660]

My point on that was it's another reason why I disagree on that being his birthday Since we can't know for certain the date he was born, I don't think it's fitting to celebrate that on such a day with bad origins

 

What bad origins are you referring to?

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

Silly people. The *real* reason why we celebrate Christmas is to celebrate Newton's birthday, which is on Dec 25. Jesus is just a scapegoat.xD

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Silly people. The *real* reason why we celebrate Christmas is to celebrate Newton's birthday, which is on Dec 25. Jesus is just a scapegoat.xD

 

All the more reason to celebrate. Truly one of God's gifts. The good Sir might not be the Second Coming, but he is "the deadliest son of a bitch in space!" 

[Misty Rose 3,216]

What bad origins are you referring to?

The whole Saturnalia thing and Yule. More than one pagan holiday was celebrated around this time from what I've seen

[Steel Accord 6,660]

The whole Saturnalia thing and Yule. More than one pagan holiday was celebrated around this time from what I've seen

 

Again, your point? If many religions have celebrated a central or at least important holiday around that time of year, than they all agree it must have some significance. 

 

I spent some time with my former girlfriend who is a Wiccan when she was celebrating Yule. Nothing offensive or heretical as far as what I saw.

[Misty Rose 3,216]

Again, your point? If many religions have celebrated a central or at least important holiday around that time of year, than they all agree it must have some significance.

 

I spent some time with my former girlfriend who is a Wiccan when she was celebrating Yule. Nothing offensive or heretical as far as what I saw.

It's just to me personally, Jesus' birth should be celebrated on a truly special day where other religions don't celebrate for their own purposes Again, that's just my opinion. It just feels weird to me personally knowing that while people celebrate Christmas, people are participating in other celebrations elsewhere

[Steel Accord 6,660]

It's just to me personally, Jesus' birth should be celebrated on a truly special day where other religions don't celebrate for their own purposes Again, that's just my opinion. It just feels weird to me personally knowing that while people celebrate Christmas, people are participating in other celebrations elsewhere

 

Can't say I agree. To me, that makes the time more special. To know that Christmas, even if it's not celebrated specifically by some, is seen as a time of peace and charity. After all, aren't those virtues central to Jesus' teachings, whether people "knew" Him or not?

 

As I'm sure you pieced together, I'm not exactly a conventional Catholic.

[Misty Rose 3,216]

Can't say I agree. To me, that makes the time more special. To know that Christmas, even if it's not celebrated specifically by some, is seen as a time of peace and charity. After all, aren't those virtues central to Jesus' teachings, whether people "knew" Him or not?

 

As I'm sure you pieced together, I'm not exactly a conventional Catholic.

Well when it comes to me, I don't really see much of the peace of this holiday, at least not in the places I've lived Plus it's mostly been turned into a huge marketing scheme these days It's quite sad -_-