Jesus Not Born On December 25, 1 A.D?

[Doc Monochrome 173]

I remember watching a program on Nat Geo w/ my folks on what the Star of Bethlehem could have been, when it mentioned that astronomical records compared to the bible indicated that Jesus wouldn't have been born in the established time of 1 A.D. but more between 2-7 B.C. Funny, that the timeline we use for everything is inaccurate.

 

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/what-year-was-jesus-born-the-answer-may-surprise-you

 

Also, line sin the bible contradict Jesus being born in Winter, like Shepherds tending their flocks (not in the winter) and that Mary & Joseph traveled for the roman census (done in the summer where roads are clearest)

 

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/biblical-evidence-shows-jesus-christ-wasnt-born-dec-25/

 

So if this information were broadly publicized, how would it affect the celebration of Christmas in the religious sense?

i don't think it will.

 

Firstly, Christmas is more of a tradition. it was started by catholics and, possibly originally as a "sanctified" alternative to a pagan festival at the time. Honestly, this may be why the date December 25th was chosen.

 

However, for most Christians these days, it is meant as a celebration of Christ's birth: because without Christ, there is no salvation. We could get caught up in the technicalities but even still the worst that will be done is a date change.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

i don't think it will.

 

Firstly, Christmas is more of a tradition. it was started by catholics and, possibly originally as a "sanctified" alternative to a pagan festival at the time. Honestly, this may be why the date December 25th was chosen.

 

However, for most Christians these days, it is meant as a celebration of Christ's birth: because without Christ, there is no salvation. We could get caught up in the technicalities but even still the worst that will be done is a date change.

 

To your point, then why do it? What does it prove or change? (Rhetorical question.)

Well when it comes to me, I don't really see much of the peace of this holiday, at least not in the places I've lived Plus it's mostly been turned into a huge marketing scheme these days It's quite sad -_-

 

I'm sincerely sorry your Christmas wasn't what it should be. I'll pray that next year Santa will give you a better one, with all the warmth and love that the holiday entails.

 

Besides though, all that Christmas marketing isn't all bad. I mean, if it gets people in the mood to actually care about Christmas then it's at least tacitly encouraging the message of good will.

[Misty Rose 3,215]

To your point, then why do it? What does it prove or change? (Rhetorical question.)

 

 

I'm sincerely sorry your Christmas wasn't what it should be. I'll pray that next year Santa will give you a better one, with all the warmth and love that the holiday entails.

 

Besides though, all that Christmas marketing isn't all bad. I mean, if it gets people in the mood to actually care about Christmas then it's at least tacitly encouraging the message of good will.

Trust me, I haven't had a good Christmas in YEARS I've pretty much given up on the holiday and just don't even care for it anymore -_- Plus I learned a long time ago when I was a kid that Santa doesn't exist

 

And the marketing annoys me personally, it makes it seem like Christmas is all about decorations and presents

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Trust me, I haven't had a good Christmas in YEARS I've pretty much given up on the holiday and just don't even care for it anymore -_- Plus I learned a long time ago when I was a kid that Santa doesn't exist

 

And the marketing annoys me personally, it makes it seem like Christmas is all about decorations and presents

 

I learned long ago that Santa isn't real. Hasn't stopped me from believing in him at age 23. Don't let circumstance crush your faith Ms. Mist.

 

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To each their own. My point is that if it didn't serve some beneficial function, it would have died as a marketing strategy long ago.

[Misty Rose 3,215]

I learned long ago that Santa isn't real. Hasn't stopped me from believing in him at age 23. Don't let circumstance crush your faith Ms. Mist.

 

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To each their own. My point is that if it didn't serve some beneficial function, it would have died as a marketing strategy long ago.

What faith can I have in something that hasn't done anything for me whatsoever throughout my life?

 

True, I see your point Companies simply saw how special Christmas was to people and decided to take advantage to milk the money out of them

[Steel Accord 6,658]

What faith can I have in something that hasn't done anything for me whatsoever throughout my life?

 

True, I see your point Companies simply saw how special Christmas was to people and decided to take advantage to milk the money out of them

 

The very definition of having faith is acting on belief that you don't know for certain is true. It requires us to take risks, even if it's just the risk of being disappointed yet again.

 

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I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, but again, I disagree. Barnes & Noble wasn't taking advantage of me when I bought Christmas gifts from them after all.

 

For just an experiment, I shall now try sarcasm:

 

Yes, how dare companies such as Christmas tree farms provide us with their services and then expect payment! Who do they think they are?!

[Misty Rose 3,215]

The very definition of having faith is acting on belief that you don't know for certain is true. It requires us to take risks, even if it's just the risk of being disappointed yet again.

 

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I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, but again, I disagree. Barnes & Noble wasn't taking advantage of me when I bought Christmas gifts from them after all.

 

For just an experiment, I shall now try sarcasm:

 

Yes, how dare companies such as Christmas tree farms provide us with their services and then expect payment! Who do they think they are?!

I don't even get presents so for me personally, there's no reason I should believe in Santa. All my Christmases have been crap -_-

 

I meant by doing all the decoration sales and discounts on stuff around the holidays And I haven't had a Christmas tree in the house since I was a toddler

[Virgil 685]

 

 

I learned long ago that Santa isn't real.

Yes Virginia Santa Claus is real.... Although his actual name is Saint Nicholas and was a Bishop during the 4th century in what is now Turkey; and was known for signing the Nicene Creed and being generous to the poor.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I don't even get presents so for me personally, there's no reason I should believe in Santa. All my Christmases have been crap -_-

 

I meant by doing all the decoration sales and discounts on stuff around the holidays And I haven't had a Christmas tree in the house since I was a toddler

 

Well if you are absolutely determined not to believe that Christmas can be good, than there's not much advice I can give. I will say that sometimes what one gets out of any experience is how much one puts into it though.

 

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So selling products at reduced prices is extortion? I'm sorry, I'm just not getting your logic. If you wish to continue discussing further, I would suggest we do it on a PM, simply because I think the topic itself has been derailed long enough.

Yes Virginia Santa Claus is real.... Although his actual name is Saint Nicholas and was a Bishop during the 4th century in what is now Turkey; and was known for signing the Nicene Creed and being generous to the poor.

 

I'm pretty sure this was meant to be a jest, but I will agree that that is correct. "Santa Claus" the toy giving, flying, fat man though is a gestalt character from a number of historical and folkloric figures.

[Doc Monochrome 173]

To your point, then why do it? What does it prove or change? (Rhetorical question.)

Eh, honestly I'm not sure why they did it. It wouldn't change anything. But those were the catholic ancients and...I'm not a catholic.

 

Yes Virginia Santa Claus is real.... Although his actual name is Saint Nicholas and was a Bishop during the 4th century in what is now Turkey; and was known for signing the Nicene Creed and being generous to the poor.

Hehe. I think only the theology nerds and historians would know he signed the Nicenecreed. XD

[Steel Accord 6,658]

 

 

Eh, honestly I'm not sure why they did it. It wouldn't change anything. But those were the catholic ancients and...I'm not a catholic.

 

As I said, rhetorical question. When I mocked the idea of changing it, I meant us changing it in the modern day in light of the evidence that Jesus was not born on the date we celebrate his birth. There are plenty of known and likely reasons for the Church to just that date. To show solidarity with the existing cultures, lacking historical information we know have, the contemporary Pope just felt like it. (Just for confirmation, I am Catholic. Gnostic Catholic to be precise.)

 

 

 

Hehe. I think only the theology nerds and historians would know he signed the Nicenecreed. XD

 

Luckily, I am half of that. The former specifically, and while not a "historian" I am also fluent in that subject as well. 

[Virgil 685]

The date of Christ's birth was misplaced... honestly because Easter was much more important for the vast majority of Church history for obvious reasons ( that and you can date the Passion because the Last Supper took place on Passover).

 

In terms of year it couldn't have been anything after 4 BC because Scripture itself identifies the figure of Herod the Great who died in 4 BC, as the ruler of Palestine at the time. Using this and Herod's order to kill infants under the age of two in Bethlehem after learning the Magi (who visited Christ sometime after his birth but whilst he was in Bethlehem; and yes, the Scripture only indicates there was more than one. Three is likely assumed by many due to the number of gifts they brought, I'd imagine) gave him the slip, would likely put the year of Christ's birth at about 6 BC. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure this was meant to be a jest, but I will agree that that is correct. "Santa Claus" the toy giving, flying, fat man though is a gestalt character from a number of historical and folkloric figures.

Santa Claus comes from Sinterklaas, itself a dialectal pronunciation of Saint Nicholas. The character of Santa Claus itself does come from a number of stories about the person Saint Nicholas in the original form although a number of things from various folk figures were added on as the centuries went by and the modern form is largely due to an early 19th century American political cartoonist Thomas Nast.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

@@Virgil,

 

Well someone is now my new hero! 

[Hypn0ticD 1,213]

Many others answered you, so it'd be pointless for me to chime in for the nth time.... So here I go!

 

Like many others said, Christmas was originally a pagan holiday called Yule, but thanks to Christian reinterpretation, Jesus' birthday was "moved" in order to better integrate pagan traditions into the Christian belief.

 

Jesus was born sometime in the spring, but as far as I knkw, no real date has been determined...

[VitalSpark 1,830]

 

 

IIRC, the date of his birth was set in the Middle Ages when some bishop added up the ages of everyone in the bible to set the dates for various events.  Many people believe he got it wrong

 

No, that's when some guy calculated the age of the earth as about 5000 years old.

 

By the middle ages they'd already been using the AD/BC system for about 1000 years, so they'd kind of committed themselves to Jesus's year of birth.

 

 

In terms of year it couldn't have been anything after 4 BC because Scripture itself identifies the figure of Herod the Great who died in 4 BC, as the ruler of Palestine at the time.

 

Yes, this was what I was just about to post.

 

Pope Benedict XVI himself, in his 2012 book Jesus of Nazareth: The Infancy Narratives, argues for a 6 BC birth date.

[Shanks 10,811]

Yes Jesus probably wasn't born on December 25th but aside from scholarly and historical inquiry this is important why exactly? The early Christian church understood that tradition was quite powerful and if they could tap into that it could help make the conversion from paganism to Christianity less jarring for them. So they took a few pagan traditions and Christianized them which was actually quite brilliant if you think about it.

 

The first few generations of so probably knew where they originally came from but it eventually got to the point where most people celebrating Christmas had no idea. The meaning of holidays can sometimes change over time, the over whelming majority of people celebrating Christmas even those who don't ascribe any religious meaning to it aren't thinking of Saturnalis, Yuletide of the Winter Solstice when they are doing it.The only people that seem to be making a big deal out of this are either a small group of fundamentalists who think all or most holidays are satanic or pagan or atheists/agnostics who are just using it as an excuse to attack Christians.

[Trixie Heartstrings 433]

Well even if people weren't "in denial" as you put it. Why should it be changed? It's a time of year that many religions have considered sacred. Why is it so important that the birth of Jesus be celebrated on the dot? You think He cares if we're off by a few months?

I wouldn't really care what date we celebrate on, I'm just talking about how people still think December 25th was the exact date of birth, even though there's been evidence that it wasn't. One I could think of is it was around the time of the census in Israel, which is and was usually around spring and summer.

[Sanctified Absence 126]

Chances are no exact dates of events in pseudo-ancient history are right, merely educated speculation. That's all I have to say on the matter.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Sanctified Absence

[spits 70]

Guess none of the religious dates we have are really that accurate given that time is not perfectly cast in stone.  Ramadan calendar days for the Muslims change all of the time, so that is pretty much the closest to accurate one would find with religious holidays.

[IcyHaze 593]

Well, don't they often say that Jesus was born in 6 B.C. due toa  calendar fuck up in the past?

[SCS 7,455]

I highly doubt Jesus was born on that exact date. There are very few things in the bible I take literally, and I don't think that date even comes from the bible. 

 

But does that really matter? The point is to celebrate Jesus Christ's birth, life and teachings. We may set aside a particular day to do that just for convenience, but it really doesn't matter what particular day he was born on.