Defending The Westboro Baptist Church?

[xlwpos 12]

I am playing Devils Advocate here. I do not endorse the Westboro Baptist Church. I just think that they have gotten an overly bad rap. Plus, I have a lawyer streak a mile wide. So here goes:

 

The WBC has operated in a legal (albeit in poor taste) fashion. And for good reason: Fred Phelps was an attorney. In fact, during the 70's & 80's he used his legal skills to help blacks who faced discrimination.

 

The legal behavior that the Phelps family has engaged in stands in stark contrast to the illegal behavior of many of those opposed to them. Their website has been hacked more times than can be counted. They have received death threats. They have been physically assaulted on the streets. In the 90's, a student from Liberty University through a homemade bomb on their property just feet from where a baby was sleeping. 

 

The WBC has done more for 1st Amenedment rights than most charitable organizations. They are keeping the freedom of speech alive in an age when it is under constant assault.  

 

They have committed the unforgiveable sin of the media age: the look bad. Their views are unpopular & they look bad publically when they share their views. But they are also a mirror. If they are guilty of preaching hate then look at the hate that has been offered to them. There's is verbal; the other side is both verbal and physical. Offering venom back is not making things better, it just makes those who do look more like the WBC.  

 

The more people engage in Ad Hominem with them it makes the WBC's  message seem more right. Very few have listened to what they have to say and have given a well-though-out, calm rebuttal. If we dismiss the Phelps family as unloveable do we not then open the door for the same title being given to us (to you, to me)? Is it not in the spirit of MLP to at least try to love the members of the WBC? 

 

To my knowledge, this post is within the MLP forums rules. Please do not flame me or the WBC and get the thread locked down. 

 

[Sapphire Lightning 784]

When it comes to the WBC, I just turn my cheek and walk a higher road. Nuff said.

[Blue Moon 6,342]

I don't care what they do or believe, and I won't attack them for it, but I find it difficult to love a group so hateful towards a group of people. They don't seem to consider what others may think or how they feel.

[chirox the pony 1,336]

Yes it has technically operated in legal fashion but it still doesn't defend the fact they protest at funerals (is that even legal), so no considering what emotionless £*%$ they are I don't see any reason to respect them. However I do have one positiveish thing to say about them, unlike most homophobes they give hatred to both homosexual males and females equally whereas most homophobes (at least the ones I've seen) tend to focus on homosexual males, so at least the WBC are equally hateful which makes them a little better....and a little worse at the same time.... 

 

P.S I am not condoning any violent actions taken against them. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by chirox the pony

[AFK 89]

I'm neutral as I don't care about society or moral stuff anymore.

People can and will polarize any issue and bend it to fit their agenda.

[Shanks 10,816]

It is true that some of WBC's opponents have taken things a bit far with death threats and it is wrong but to play devils advocate myself with their inflammatory statements and blatant disrespect for the dead by protesting soldiers funerals it is no surprise that they would get that hostile response. With no legal ramifactions as to what they do the families of the funerals being protested are understandably frustrated and many of them feel that extreme actions like that are their only recourse.  I am honestly conflicted about whether or not to allow them to continue to protest soldiers funerals because what about the right of the victims to grieve their loved ones in peace? But on the other hand such restrictions can have the consequence of giving the government more power to shut down other unpopular views when they already have too much unchecked power as it is. 

 

I do see what you are saying though, the WBC are complete and utter scum and I make no apologies for saying that but you do make a good point about not turning them into martyrs. What really sucks about this issue is there is no cut and dry easy answer to this, yes they shouldn't be made into martyrs and there are many potential problems with censoring them but it seems like no matter what happens they will just keep on spewing hate and protesting soldier funerals. Of course one important point is that they may technically have the legal right to do what they are doing they are not completely free of consequences, as far as I am concerned the only thing that makes them better than the KKK is that they are at the very least non violent.

[VulpineTaco 525]

Honestly, they're a bunch of morons. Crazy, crazy morons. And I don't listen to morons, so I don't listen to anything they have to say, which is the best course of action. If you don't give them the attention they crave, they'll starve and die.

[DubWolf 17,522]

People can be great Christians without the need to be so rash.

 

Yes it has technically operated in legal fashion but it still doesn't defend the fact they protest at funerals (is that even legal), so no considering what emotionless £*%$ they are I don't see any reason to respect them.

This. I can't stand emotionlessness, especially in religion.

[GrauWitz 1,010]

How can anyone defend those fucking bellends? They protest at the funerals of dead soldiers while the deceased's family are grieving, they want gay people (and that includes me ) to be exterminated, they say that 9/11 and the Virginia Tech Massacre were punishments from God and they teach their children songs about destroying LGBT people. I don't care what MLP teaches, the Westboro Baptist Church are a cult and they're incapable of being nice to anyone.

Edited February 24, 2015 by GrauWitz

[Denim&Venöm 19,716]

If you at this closely, Westboro, as well as any religious extremists, are betraying their faith. If they truly do believe in god, why not trust that god will settle the matter? If god doesn't want homosexuals, surely god will do the smiting, right? Is god so powerless as to order it's followers to act on it's behalf? Not trusting the actions of god, and trying to sway/force others to see your views on faith, is actually a display of a lack of faith in your god, a lack of conviction, in gods will. Isn't acting out in such a fashion basically saying you don't trust your god's will?

 

But then, they conveniently forget one statement about god: that god created everything, and I mean everything, including the physical hardwiring of the brain and/or identity of the spirit required to be homosexual. In short, god created homosexuals. And for the argument that the devil/satan/lucifer created homosexuality, remember that god created everything, including those 3. If they created homosexuality, then god could easily unmake it. But no matter who, whether it be god or evil incarnate, created homosexuality, it still exists today. If god didn't want homosexuality, then why is it still here? 

 

And why should they care about what homosexuals do, or even of the masses who are defending them? They're all going to hell anyways, and in their minds, Westboro's disciples are going to heaven. Let the cards fall where they may and let the "sinners" be punished for their ways. Let them repent for their "sins" on their own.  They've issued their warnings, now let the rest of the world face the "consequences."

 

What about the saying in the bible "love thy neighbor?" What about the notion that god loves all it's children? Have they ever considered thinking "what would Jesus do" if they still held his opinion in high regard?

 

The world doesn't want to hear westboro's message, and they scream it out anyways. Sure, the methods of those opposed to them may be more extreme, but that does not exclude westboro for their actions. This is merely escalation. If they were protesting at a funeral  of my family, I would get ultra violent too.  I wouldn't care if I was going to jail, as long as I took as many of them down as possible before the cops arrested me or killed me.

 

I may love & tolerate, but that does not translate to inaction, defenselessness, and turning a blind eye. To not stand up for the fallen, for your friends, family and those who are being hated just for the way they were born, is just as big a betrayal of the magic of friendship as intolerance & hate. Standing by and not doing anything, not taking a stand against intolerance & hate, to allow it, is just as bad a crime as partaking in it. 

 

If you don't stand up for others, who will be left to stand up for you?

[Megas 27,919]

I don't get how anyone can defend these "people"

 

All they do is spread volitle hate and attack and protest against homosexuals, protesting soldiers funerals, all under the guise of "in the name of God." On top of that Christians are embarrassed to be associated with these people

 

[DATA EXPUNGED 324]

I find it rather unfitting to be discussing the WBC on a forum that promotes friendship love and tolerance. The WBC isn't the paragon of those virtues I dare say. 

[Simon 4,557]

I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread up.  While MLP Forums does want to encourage people to feel free to express their opinions and beliefs on sensitive issues in the appropriate section (debate pit), attacking groups or individuals is not permitted on this forum.  

 

As the rules state, "Tolerate and love everypony. While we don't quite mean this in the literal sense, we do ask that you remain respectful of other people's opinions and realize that they are, at the end of the day, just opinions rather than grounds for declaring thermonuclear war."  While nobody is expected to agree with groups like the WBC, they are expected to be respectful of individuals and not resort to name calling or personal attacks.  Discussing opinions is fine, attacking people and groups is not.

 

Notoriously, threads about the WBC have led to very strong remarks about the group personally and this thread is no exception.  As a result, this is a topic which simply is not going to lead to a constructive discussion on the forum, and as a result is being closed.

 

As an aside, please remember that topics of a controversial nature, especially those relating to politics or religion should be kept to the debate pit.  Thanks!