Spike- baby dragon or child?

[ManaMinori 4,146]

It never really sat well with me that ponies (and pony fans) continuously call Spike a "baby" dragon. Is he, really? Personally, I don't think he is- frankly, because we saw what he looked like as an actual baby, when Twilight first hatched him, in "the cutie mark chronicles". Since then, Spike appears to have progressed significantly in appearance, and looks more like a young child than a baby.

 

Twilight mentioned, in "dragon quest" that ponies know next to nothing about dragons, so I feel like since the ponies don't understand how dragons age and mature, it's simply more a convenience for them to label Spike a "baby".

 

However, Spike has shown to be capable of learning lessons on his own, learning from the Mane 6's screw ups and adventures, rescuing them, morally supporting them, saving empires, having complex insecurities of his past and purpose, baking skills, love issues, and is a capable friend and assistant. All of what he does and feels can't possibly be done or felt if Spike was a mere baby, could it? What baby character in MLP has ever been shown with such emotional depth or able to perform the skills or learn lessons as A young child, which Spike clearly is- or like the adults (ponies) have?

 

But what do you guys think? Is Spike a baby dragon? A child? Is there any evidence to support your own reasoning? Should ponies start researching dragons more, if only for Spike's sake? Why do you think Spike's ok with being called a "baby" dragon, by his own friends, no less? Do you think he sees himself as s baby? If so, SHOULD he?

[BastementSparkle 20,334]

Spike's maturity is kind of all over the place. He's a baby dragon, but he looks and sounds like a kid, and acts kinda like one too. But he's also at times very mature, almost like an adult, and based off Twilight's age when she hatched him he's probably actually not that much younger than her, maybe by 5 or 6 years at most. If the Mane Six are young adults he'd have to be a teenager probably. At least 10-12 years old. There's also that whole "Aging through greed" thing.

 

 I'd say he's only a baby by dragon standards. By pony standards he's probably a teenager.

Edited June 7, 2015 by BasementPoneh

[cider float 2,539]

His maturity is more of that of a teenager. Still gets insecure about his masculinity, he constantly looks for validation from Twilight or others which is what lots of young adults and teens do. He uses sarcasm as an escape which is used widely by young adults. He definitely acts more mature than the CMC so he's not in the 8-13 ages. He seems more in the 14-17 ages. Some adults do see teenagers as very cute like how Rarity does with Spike. Calling him her baby is more or less just endearment towards his adorable nature.

[APegLegPirate 168]

 I don't know how old Spike is considered to be. But I would like to see an obvious change in his age such as growth. I would like to see him get progressively get bigger and taller which shows a much more obvious in growth. Just keeping him the same as he is now every episode just ruins the effect of realism. I know realism takes no place here, but it would still be nice to see progression with age in this franchise. 

[Steve Piranha 29,449]

Mentally, he's way older than a baby, a pre-teen at least, despite being compared to a 8 years old by Faust. But he also needs his sleep, so, in a way, he's technically a baby 

[Creamy Arty 6,252]

I've been quite a fan of the Forgotten Realms D&D campaign setting for many years, and my favorite book series is the Legend of Drizzt. It's a series that follows the life and times of a particular drow elf from his childhood until present day, when he's over a century old. Quite a time lapse there for a book series that's been going for 26 years. If I recall correctly, when he reached the surface world after abandoning his evil society, he was only about 70 years old. "Only." Of course, from a human perspective he was practically geriatric, but compared to the longevity of his own species in which most people live to be in excess of 500 years old, he was practically a child. Largely a matter of perspective here.

 

 

I see Spike in a similar way. Look at how young Twilight was when Spike was hatched. She was just entering school. She barely has a lead on him. Spike, being a dragon, will probably outlive Twilight by centuries, and hasn't physically matured yet. On the other hand, he's had almost as much time in the world as she, carrying virtually the same experiences having spent his life thus far by her side. We're even shown in the pilot episode that Spike somehow is a bit more wise than Twilight, given that he's her faithful and obviously very competent assistant, while also having a greater grasp on the significance of friendship with a better understanding of its nuances. Sure, Spike is physically a "baby" or a "child" by dragon standards, but he's as much an adult as any of the Mane 6 (or more so) as far as his faculties are concerned, and should be treated as such.

[ManaMinori 4,146]

Mentally, he's way older than a baby, a pre-teen at least, despite being compared to a 8 years old by Faust. But he also needs his sleep, so, in a way, he's technically a baby

I fail to see what sleep has to do with his age. We all need sleep to function- humans, ponies, and dragons.

 

However, if Faust says he's 8 (source, please?) then at least that's a general age from the creator herself, rather than blindly guessing.

[Silk 2]

In my opinion he actually seems more mature now in S5.

[ManaMinori 4,146]

I've been quite a fan of the Forgotten Realms D&D campaign setting for many years, and my favorite book series is the Legend of Drizzt. It's a series that follows the life and times of a particular drow elf from his childhood until present day, when he's over a century old. Quite a time lapse there for a book series that's been going for 26 years. If I recall correctly, when he reached the surface world after abandoning his evil society, he was only about 70 years old. "Only." Of course, from a human perspective he was practically geriatric, but compared to the longevity of his own species in which most people live to be in excess of 500 years old, he was practically a child. Largely a matter of perspective here.

 

 

I see Spike in a similar way. Look at how young Twilight was when Spike was hatched. She was just entering school. She barely has a lead on him. Spike, being a dragon, will probably outlive Twilight by centuries, and hasn't physically matured yet. On the other hand, he's had almost as much time in the world as she, carrying virtually the same experiences having spent his life thus far by her side. We're even shown in the pilot episode that Spike somehow is a bit more wise than Twilight, given that he's her faithful and obviously very competent assistant, while also having a greater grasp on the significance of friendship with a better understanding of its nuances. Sure, Spike is physically a "baby" or a "child" by dragon standards, but he's as much an adult as any of the Mane 6 (or more so) as far as his faculties are concerned, and should be treated as such.

As far as Spike physically maturing... It's not really under his control. He's obviously matured physically to some extent, from the time he hatched, to how he looks now, but he's in a society that hampers his remaining aging process. A dragon physically matures by greed, and the ponies have already put a stop to that once before- keeping Spike from physically growing perhaps long after his body's natural time to start wanting to. So long as ponies control his growth process, we won't see him aging much more than he is, now.

 

But I agree with him being more competent than Twilight (really, more than most- if not all of the Mane 6, in fact), as far as mental maturity goes.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

I assume they only call him "baby" for his age but the only substantial reference to it would be his inability to stay awake at night. Maybe if dragons live for centuries or even thousands of years then a dragon that lived for fifty years would still be called a baby. But his maturity does exceed some foal ponies like Apple Bloom and her friends or even some adults so calling him a baby by that aspect might not be very good.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,016]

Maybe it's relative thing. Dragons can live for thousands of years and Spike is, I'm going to guess, at oldest around 13? So I suppose going by that it would seem reasonable that Spike would be labelled as baby (perhaps being child would require to be at least 50 years and teenager equivalent 200 years or something of the sort?). Perhaps term "baby dragon" has different connotation than "baby pony"; after all Spike is very obviously more mature than children of Mr. and Mrs. Cake.

[Sugar Pea 2,682]

 He remind me of a ten year old boy, because of his behavior and mannerisms.

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

I'd say he's started somewhere around 10 or 11, and has aged enough within the show that he's hit the dragon equivalent of puberty, so calling him a baby wouldn't be appropriate from us. However, dragons live for a thousand years or something, and dragon maturity is a murky subject, so maybe he's still technically a "baby," at least according to the lore.

[manic 121]

As others have mentioned, if dragons follow "our" dragon rules, and live for thousands of years, Spike might be a "baby" dragon for hundreds of years.

[The Awesome One 1,315]

In human years, sometimes he acts like he's six years old but usually he gives me the vibes of a human ten year old. In the way that he talks and acts most of the time. However I am pretty sure that Spike is going to take at least a thousand years to grow to full size. Poor guy, he's going to see the Mane 6 grow old and die while he will still be in his 'teens'.

[manic 121]

In human years, sometimes he acts like he's six years old but usually he gives me the vibes of a human ten year old. In the way that he talks and acts most of the time. However I am pretty sure that Spike is going to take at least a thousand years to grow to full size. Poor guy, he's going to see the Mane 6 grow old and die while he will still be in his 'teens'.

 

Twilight might be okay, after all Celestia and Luna are thousands of years old.

[The Awesome One 1,315]

Twilight might be okay, after all Celestia and Luna are thousands of years old.

Or maybe Cadence and Twilight are not the type of alicorns that Luna and Celestia are. No flowing manes or large size which suggests they're not immortal/having long lives like them.

[colt .45 259]

Or maybe Cadence and Twilight are not the type of alicorns that Luna and Celestia are. No flowing manes or large size which suggests they're not immortal/having long lives like them.

 

...or perhaps Twilight and Cadence are "baby" alicorns. It's difficult for us to judge the age of creatures that have lifespans so much longer than what we comprehend as "a long time" by comparison to our lifespans. Like it would be reasonable to measure my driveway with a yardstick, but us trying to comprehend the lifespan of creatures that live for millennia, is like trying to use a yardstick to measure the distance from NY to LA.

 

As for Spike, in "Dragon Quest" he showed more maturity than the feral dragons that were described as being teenaged. He is also given responsibility beyond what would be expected of either a baby, or a child. Being left home alone, cooking/ using the stove/oven, petsitting, those are all things that would be totally inappropriate to let a child much less a baby do. So by chronological dragon standards he is a baby, by pony standards, his maturity is somewhere between older than the CMC, but younger than the mane six. What we were given about a dragons size (which they refered to as "growing up") in "Secret of my Excess" only makes this more confusing.

[\/ 651]

He's expected to live a few hundred thousand years. He is, of course, a baby still. By the standards of a pony though, he is more grown up than most of the fillies (we're looking at you, Scootaloo) in ponyville.

[manic 121]

...or perhaps Twilight and Cadence are "baby" alicorns. It's difficult for us to judge the age of creatures that have lifespans so much longer than what we comprehend as "a long time" by comparison to our lifespans. Like it would be reasonable to measure my driveway with a yardstick, but us trying to comprehend the lifespan of creatures that live for millennia, is like trying to use a yardstick to measure the distance from NY to LA.

 

 

That, and it's possible there are more "steps" to ascension, and becoming an Alicorn is just the first part. Or maybe they're a lower 'class' of alicorn and not ageless/immortal like the two sisters. Who knows? Speculation: One possibility is that Celestia gave Twilight a dragon for a companion because she knew they'd have similar lifespans?