That argument: It's a show for children stop being so serious

[Rawzy 1,302]

She said it perfectly.

Just thought I'd let you know.....I'm a "he" :3

[cider float 2,538]

I also don't think children would care so deeply about the removal of Muffins or anything like that and talk about how she represents people with disabilities. I have been telling bronies to just let it go about her but they can't. 

[Silver Stream. 708]

Just thought I'd let you know.....I'm a "he" :3

 

 

 

Apologies. That was pretty much a "duh" moment ESPECIALLY since I literally just said the fandom was mostly made up of males within the community .

 

 

you may whack me if you please *bows dramatically* 

[Lil Pip 775]

We should really make a census asking what age you are, and how much you liked a  episode, and how well made it was.

Brony study results, http://www.bronystudy.com/id1.htmlbecause people have measured it before.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

Is MLP a kids' show? Yes, it is. Is there such a thing as taking it too seriously? Yes, there is. But when people use that argument to deflect all criticism of any kids' show, that's where I have to question their standing.

 

The children's entertainment and animation industries (using these terms both separately and combined) have an incredible amount of influence over people that we're all aware of but not every one of us acknowledges. It has the potential to not only entertain, but to inspire by introducing us to unique themes and accessing a sort of visual and storytelling creativity and cross-generational appeal that not many other forms of media can reach.

 

By introducing mature themes at a younger age, you're exposing kids to themes that may recur later in life. They'll probably be more engaged in school. They'll probably see their own future potential. Best of all, maybe, just maybe, these shows may be the ones that inspire the next generation of animators. The next Lauren Faust, Rebecca Sugar, or Alex Hirsch could be watching MLP: FiM, Steven Universe, or Gravity Falls right now as I type this, and thinking, "I want to do that someday". I sort of felt it myself when I discovered some good old cartoons (The Raccoons, Animaniacs, TUGS, etc.) when I was just starting out on the Internet a few years ago.

 

As we grow up, there are some shows that stay with us and those that don't. People who review and analyze such works correctly are in it to learn where shows did X, Y, or Z right or wrong, and which tropes writers should play into or avoid when creating their own works, while also trying to decipher the exact intentions of the showrunners. Those who take it "too seriously" are generally doing it wrong, but to say all reviewers are taking it too seriously is an ignorant blanket statement that shows no regard for the time and effort that goes into making the shows that are subject of the reviews and demonstrates an aversion to discussion. If you don't want to know about it, don't talk about it.

 

I find the "why bother" mindset in kids' TV not only to be disrespectful of the shows' quality and audience, but to be bad business sense as well. It pains me when a show like Teen Titans GO! willfully alienates its adult audience, because here you are with a well-known franchise, brand recognition, and a well-budgeted show to which the network is giving a fair shot, and the creators obviously don't care about it. They don't even try to understand their critics who only want a better show. Sure the show is financially successful already, but if you made it so stupid half the audience doesn't want to see it, what is that going to say about how your current audience is going to react 5, 10, or 15 years in the future? What does it say now that many are spreading negative word-of-mouth and avoiding this show like the plague? Hint: this isn't "maximizing your audience". A few years from now few will remember what this show even was. What in the hell was Loonatics Unleashed?

 

These kinds of shows have too many millions of dollars and years of effort put into them to be wasted on mindless drivel. Animation and entertainment are, by nature, fiercely competitive fields. People have a right to demand quality, and adult audiences are a rising niche for animation that so-called "kids' shows" are now beginning to embrace. They also have the money to spend on show merchandise and support. Thus, it's fully within their right to demand the best and call out when they feel that they're getting considerably less.

 

You know something's wrong when Gravity Falls isn't this heavily analyzed.

I take it you've never heard of The Royal Order of the Holy Mackerel or just don't venture out onto YouTube enough to find the many vloggers this show has.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Wind Chaser

[Silver Stream. 708]

 

These kinds of shows have too many millions of dollars and years of effort put into them to be wasted on mindless drivel. Animation and entertainment are, by nature, fiercely competitive fields. People have a right to demand quality, and adult audiences are a rising niche for animation that so-called "kids' shows" are now beginning to embrace. They also have the money to spend on show merchandise and support. Thus, it's fully within their right to demand the best and call out when they feel that they're getting considerably less.

 

I would agree with this but the only issue I see is how you define a kid's show in the first place. Does the phrase "kids show" automatically means a show that lacks high quality writing, designs, development, and messages within the story? Personally, no I wouldn't think so. There are too many GREAT "kid shows" out there for it to be degraded. When someone uses this to counter one's frustration over a show, they aren't implying MLP was meant to be a "crappy show" so you should accept whatever....they are implying that IF there is a mistake made or a low quality episode....don't take it to heart too much and frustrate yourself....these are bound to pop up. Express what you don't like about it and move on with the knowledge that not all the time an episode will meet the standards of a full grown adult....it will only be good enough to satisfy the younger audience which was the intended target in the first place 

 

As I said before, there is nothing wrong with high expectations for the show. Even I have high expectations and small demands of character development here and there....everyone does. It's the major demands and anger towards a missed detail and even harsh criticism towards something that "isn't relatable or realistic" that  encourages people to throw out the reminder that the show was made for younger viewers and we should AT LEAST contain ourselves when it comes to making certain demands or bashing something that you should expect in the first place. Plot holes and the quality of the series and movies will forever be pointed out and noticed among the fans and there's no stopping that nor is it right to WANT that to stop because there wouldn't be a point in these discussions in the first place. 

 

For some people, when they remind another that FiM is a kid's show and to calm down, they aren't implying that your perspective is invalid or anything.. they are trying to pull you back into reality and stress that perfection is inevitable in a show like this....and you shouldn't be frustrated to the point of a full on harsh rant about a certain episode not exceeding your expectations or satisfying your demands. 

 

Now if there is someone out there who has an issue with...let's say....Derpy not being developed enough and them wanting to see more of her or get a back story....that's perfectly fine. It's in THOSE situations that the "Relax....it's wrong to want Derpy to be developed because it's a show for kids and you need to accept that your small demand hasn't been met" SHOULDN'T be thrown. Because everyone is entitled to what they want to see. That's for any show actually. If something like this were to happen, then no...I wouldn't support it. 

Edited October 27, 2015 by Princess Sunset

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

I would agree with this but the only issue I see is how you define a kid's show in the first place. Does the phrase "kids show" automatically means a show that lacks high quality writing, designs, development, and messages within the story? Personally, no I wouldn't think so. 

 

As I said before, there is nothing wrong with high expectations for the show. Even I have high expectations and small demands of character development here and there....everyone does. It's the major demands and anger towards a missed detail and even harsh criticism towards something that "isn't relatable or realistic" that  encourages people to throw out the reminder that the show was made for younger viewers and we should AT LEAST contain ourselves when it comes to making certain demands or bashing something that you should expect in the first place. Plot holes and the quality of the series and movies will forever be pointed out and noticed among the fans and there's no stopping that nor is it right to WANT that to stop because there wouldn't be a point in these discussions in the first place. 

 

For some people, when they remind another that FiM is a kid's show and to calm down, they aren't implying that your perspective is invalid or anything.. they are trying to pull you back into reality and stress that perfection is inevitable in a show like this....and you shouldn't be frustrated to the point of a full on harsh rant about a certain episode not exceeding your expectations or satisfying your demands. 

 

Now if there is someone out there who has an issue with...let's say....Derpy not being developed enough and them wanting to see more of her or get a back story....that's perfectly fine. It's in THOSE situations that the "Relax....it's wrong to want Derpy to be developed because it's a show for kids and you need to accept that your small demand hasn't been met" SHOULDN'T be thrown. Because everyone is entitled to what they want to see. That's for any show actually. If something like this were to happen, then no...I wouldn't support it. 

I was mainly aiming my post at those who think the show is above any and all such criticism because of it being classified as a "kids' show". But I do agree criticism has its limits. Those who take the show too seriously do forget what the show was originally about. Although forgetting that it was originally for kids is a part of it, it's only a part of a bigger problem; people judging the show too much on their own merits and too much against other shows with which it should not be compared.

 

People like Tommy Oliver and Digibro are good examples, when they initially left the fandom mid-Season 5 and at the end of Season 4 respectively (Oliver has since made periodic returns). Oliver began making blanket statements about the fandom and expecting too much out of the show with respect to an airtight plot, same for Digibro. His standards for the Season 4 finale, although I find criticisms of its broken plot legitimate, were largely influenced by his self-professed "thousands of hours' worth" of anime watching, which is a much more varied medium comprised of many different shows and styles aimed at many different demographics that a single franchise like MLP cannot possibly duplicate on even a small scale.

 

The main thing is, some people come to MLP looking for things that MLP can't do. MLP is definitely more realistic than the predecessors of its franchise, and I often call for a little more realism for the sake of identifying with and diversifying the characters more, but those who want a gritty and grounded show with colorful characters may be looking in the wrong place. Similarly, if they want to see MLP be more progressive, gender-neutral, or more focused on fantasy and worldbuilding, etc., MLP: FiM isn't the be-all, end-all. There's only so much MLP can do and that's more about accepting the show's limitations, and what it really is set out to do; to use its colorful characters and vivid fantasy setting to deliver a solid story with a strong, coherent, and useful moral at the end.

[Silver Stream. 708]

 

 

The main thing is, some people come to MLP looking for things that MLP can't do. MLP is definitely more realistic than the predecessors of its franchise, and I often call for a little more realism for the sake of identifying with and diversifying the characters more, but those who want a gritty and grounded show with colorful characters may be looking in the wrong place. Similarly, if they want to see MLP be more progressive, gender-neutral, or more focused on fantasy and worldbuilding, etc., MLP: FiM isn't the be-all, end-all. There's only so much MLP can do and that's more about accepting the show's limitations, and what it really is set out to do; to use its colorful characters and vivid fantasy setting to deliver a solid story with a strong, coherent, and useful moral at the end.

 

Now that's something I completely agree with 100%. I think the more people begin to see it this way, it'll be easier and less frustrating whenever an episode reaches their disappointment

[TubeSock2018 325]

The main thing is, some people come to MLP looking for things that MLP can't do. MLP is definitely more realistic than the predecessors of its franchise, and I often call for a little more realism for the sake of identifying with and diversifying the characters more, but those who want a gritty and grounded show with colorful characters may be looking in the wrong place. Similarly, if they want to see MLP be more progressive, gender-neutral, or more focused on fantasy and worldbuilding, etc., MLP: FiM isn't the be-all, end-all. There's only so much MLP can do and that's more about accepting the show's limitations, and what it really is set out to do; to use its colorful characters and vivid fantasy setting to deliver a solid story with a strong, coherent, and useful moral at the end.

And to add to that, we can't forget that, at it's core, MLP is a 22 minute toy ad. The head of this beast is, and always has been, Hasbro.

A lot of the issues that are found in episodes (or Equestria Girls) can sometimes be traced back to the fact that the show is designed to advertise characters available for sale in toy stores.

So naturally we will sometimes get rushed stories that were made for the sake of introducing a particular character or stories that aren't very gritty because Hasbro sticks to the idea that a happy audience is more likely to want to spend more. 

 

Like you said, there's only so much it can do and I think it's a miracle it's been so good considering everything the writer's have to juggle. 

It's not impossible, but it definitely can't be easy when you have Hasbro over your head with their own agenda that might not fit into an artistic vision. 

Edited October 27, 2015 by pollo20x6

[[NULL] 906]

I take it you've never heard of The Royal Order of the Holy Mackerel or just don't venture out onto YouTube enough to find the many vloggers this show has.

 

That's the point. And here I thought I wouldn't have to hammer it in with "...And that's saying a lot! Gravity Falls is meant to be analyzed!"

Edited October 27, 2015 by SpaceOnion

[Number62 1,258]

I think we all know that animation is quite often seen as a lesser form of storytelling. I don't know why that's the case, and I personally don't care as long as good stories are told. Of course, as pretty much everyone else has said, "kids' stuff" can and should appeal to older viewers because I don't see any benefit from appealing only a specific set of people and no one else.

 

Greg Weisman (Gargoyles, The Spectacular Spider-Man, Young Justice) said this about his shows better than me:

 

Anyway, the core target is Boys 6-11. But that was true on Gargoyles and even on W.I.T.C.H. True on most shows I've worked on. My shows (at least the ones I produce) are always written to work on multiple levels. Concentric circles like any target. We've got to hit that bullseye in the middle for commercial purposes, but we're not satisfied with only getting that audience. I like to think my shows work for kids, tweens, teens and adults, for boys and girls and men and women, for intense fan-geeks and casual viewers. But mostly -- fundamentally -- I write and edit for a core audience of one, i.e. ME. I produce the show I'd like to see. If you don't like it, all that really means is that our tastes are different.

 

And I'd like to think that the people on MLP:FIM (or any other children's show animated or not) would approach their shows similarly.

 

On the subject of quality, I'm pretty sure producers of MLP are trying their hardest because they have no reason not to. Of course, this doesn't excuse poor storytelling. Someone has mentioned Teen Titans Go! (which I also dislike), and I've only caught some number of episodes before dropping it completely because I got sick of it, so I haven't seen its more controversial episodes. I'd also think that whatever the responses are to that show, the producers are also trying to make a good show. For another statement from Weisman (this time on Star Wars Rebels, which I haven't seen. The asker interestingly mentions Ultimate Spider-Man, which I also disklike)

 

Do you really think we'd set out to make a BAD show? What exactly do you expect me to say to that?

 

"Why, yes, actually. We were hoping it would suck."

 

I mean, seriously.

 

EVERYONE involved in it, myself included, is doing his or her absolute best to bring you a terrific Star Wars series. If that's not enough, I don't know what to tell you.

 

Then again, only guesses can be made about what happens behind the scenes.

 

Also, a bunch of adults work on the so-called "kids shows". Why shouldn't they appeal to adults, then?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Number107

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Well, digimon is made for kids, and that's no reason that fans can't discuss it at length XD

 

Multi-demographic appeal is the key to success, and the truly successful franchises can roll as either very simple for children or very deep for adults, depending on how its done. Look at batman for example, he can be done very simply as a nice cartoon or comic for kids about a cool ninja who ties up criminals, or he can be done deeply for adults as a grim and gritty avenger who's basically a very advanced crime detective.


A good show has two sides of its coins and can be either as serious as fans want or as simplistic as the show writers want. So I think "its for kids" is a poor excuse if it has the CAPABILITY to be deeper and fans like it in that way.

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Usually I've seen this argument used as a stand in for MST3K's mantra of "It's just a show; I should really just relax." where as it's to help explain way certain things happen usually due to the restriction's children's media is put under and that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, though it is equally used as an argument insta-kill for someone who has a legitiment complaint about something in an episode or the show in general. 

[Guest]

Harlan Ellison once said that every idiot with a typewriter thinks they're a critic, but a real critic is a professional. And a professional knows what requires critique and what doesn't.

[UnknownFry 169]

The excuse that it is a show for children is no reason to excuse it from criticism, but there is a fine line between criticism and hyper criticism and nitpicking. Fact of the matter the show is designed so families can enjoy it together while it promoting the toyline as well, and people need to keep some these points in mind when analyzing the show. Of course people are free to express themselves as they will but frankly the show should not be something to get worked up all about it.

 

That said expecting realism out a of a show full of magical talking ponies is bound to leave one dissapointed especially in the context of a show that places it's ideology above anything else, and it keeps thing simplified. Yes it it has taken a more grounded approach than its predecessors, but it is still set in world that allows for a creative framework to tell such stories using magic and other fantasy elements, 

Edited October 28, 2015 by UnknownFry

[cider float 2,538]

The thing is our cultures tend to have us question everything and sometimes we turn it into fun. It increases your enjoyment for the show. They might put something controversial on purpose to get more people in a frenzy on it which will make them watch more of it increasing their show ratings. Sometimes you got to make your own fun.

[Silver Stream. 708]

Sometimes nitpicking at a show and harshly criticizing everything might not be fun for those who genuinely enjoy the show. It's fine to express what you want, but if you're purposely getting worked up over small details just to create mayhem, I find that disrectful to real bronies who express concerns wholeheartedly.

 

Yes it's fine to create your own fun, but it's inconsiderate to ruin the fun for others.

[cider float 2,538]

Sometimes nitpicking at a show and harshly criticizing everything might not be fun for those who genuinely enjoy the show. It's fine to express what you want, but if you're purposely getting worked up over small details just to create mayhem, I find that disrectful to real bronies who express concerns wholeheartedly.

 

Yes it's fine to create your own fun, but it's inconsiderate to ruin the fun for others.

Well people also seem to get worked up over people getting worked up over small details... so yeah, no harm no foul everyone is a critic.

[Silver Stream. 708]

Well people also seem to get worked up over people getting worked up over small details... so yeah, no harm no foul everyone is a critic.

Half the time....I honestly believe you skim most of what is said in your threads and find yourself saying things as if they haven't been said already as you are doing now.

 

As I said....times before...criticism is fine. Others have said....plenty of times before....criticism is fine. But there is a fine line between constructive criticism on a plot hole /writing / bad episode....and then there's huge rants over minor detail or a "realistic" expectation not being met. So if you're saying that people who basically frustrate themselves over stuff like that is okay because it gives them something "fun" to do which leads to real fans getting annoyed or frustrated over the "fun" that they are doing....then it proves my point in how that "fun" can ruin things for others.

 

 

That's like saying if a person says this: "Oh hey I think it's super dumb how Pegasi can walk on clouds. It's physically impossible! And how come pegasi can walk on clouds and others can't? Because they have wings? Big deal! That explains nothing. Blah blah blah!"

 

And this person goes on a rant which will frustrate others to the point where this person ruins the fun for others just for the sake of starting something like that to satisfy their own amusement.

 

And that's when a reminder of "hey buddy calm down it's just a pony cartoon...don't let that frustrate you" comes into play.

 

 

I advise you to read most of what was said here. Everyone seems to be saying the same thing which you might not be comprehending: criticizing the show is fine. NO ONE is opposing that. If someone is mad because of a plot hole, they have a right to be and the "it's a kid show" card shouldn't be thrown. But if someone it nitpicking at something that is fairly ridiculous to get "overly angry and frustrated " over....that's when it'll spread to other fans and cause a huge commotion...all because this person thinks pegasi walking on clouds is unrealistic and dumb.

 

 

If you aren't getting that from all that's been said on here, then honestly I don't know what else to even say.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Princess Sunset

[Kivil 1,721]

The show can't be for little kids anyway because, how are these little kids who sometimes don't even know how to control their bowels going to understand how complicated the plot is overall. Also they don't get all of the references to pop culture like we do 

[Silver Stream. 708]

The show can't be for little kids anyway because, how are these little kids who sometimes don't even know how to control their bowels going to understand how complicated the plot is overall. Also they don't get all of the references to pop culture like we do

 

I wouldn't think it was for toddlers or anything.... maybe preteens and teenagers. "Kids" is a very broad term when it comes to what ages each individual means when they say "kids show".

 

You'd be surprised what "kids" know these days. Oh God, one time I volunteered at this Elementary School and nearly lost my mind at how grown most were behaving and how much they knew.

 

 

But as someone said in this thread, despite the show originally being made for kids, the show is for anyone who understands it whether they are 13 or 33

 

Hehe..... the punch has been "spiked"

Man that never gets old.

[cider float 2,538]

Half the time....I honestly believe you skim most of what is said in your threads and find yourself saying things as if they haven't been said already as you are doing now.

 

As I said....times before...criticism is fine. Others have said....plenty of times before....criticism is fine. But there is a fine line between constructive criticism on a plot hole /writing / bad episode....and then there's huge rants over minor detail or a "realistic" expectation not being met. So if you're saying that people who basically frustrate themselves over stuff like that is okay because it gives them something "fun" to do which leads to real fans getting annoyed or frustrated over the "fun" that they are doing....then it proves my point in how that "fun" can ruin things for others.

 

 

That's like saying if a person says this: "Oh hey I think it's super dumb how Pegasi can walk on clouds. It's physically impossible! And how come pegasi can walk on clouds and others can't? Because they have wings? Big deal! That explains nothing. Blah blah blah!"

 

And this person goes on a rant which will frustrate others to the point where this person ruins the fun for others just for the sake of starting something like that to satisfy their own amusement.

 

And that's when a reminder of "hey buddy calm down it's just a pony cartoon...don't let that frustrate you" comes into play.

 

 

I advise you to read most of what was said here. Everyone seems to be saying the same thing which you might not be comprehending: criticizing the show is fine. NO ONE is opposing that. If someone is mad because of a plot hole, they have a right to be and the "it's a kid show" card shouldn't be thrown. But if someone it nitpicking at something that is fairly ridiculous to get "overly angry and frustrated " over....that's when it'll spread to other fans and cause a huge commotion...all because this person thinks pegasi walking on clouds is unrealistic and dumb.

 

 

If you aren't getting that from all that's been said on here, then honestly I don't know what else to even say.

But in the end of the day people had fun, if people are butthurt about them having fun then well they have an option to exit and not touch upon the subject again. If telling someone to calm down from a pony show is fun for those people well I guess they found what's fun for them.

[Silver Stream. 708]

But in the end of the day people had fun, if people are butthurt about them having fun then well they have an option to exit and not touch upon the subject again. If telling someone to calm down from a pony show is fun for those people well I guess they found what's fun for them.

No, at the end of the day we have a person is frustrated about something small. And then annoys others. And then that person becomes annoyed because people are telling them to chill out.

 

But let's say they are having fun....and the person nitpicking is just doing for amusement and the person who says "chill out it's just a kids show" is saying that just to have fun....okay then...they are all having fun. In that case....why in the world did you even start a discussion saying how people "shouldn't" use this argument? It's all in good fun right? You're saying it's fun for people to nitpick but it shouldn't make sense for someone to use the "a kids show" argument? The more you try to brush off it as fun, the more you're contradicting yourself with starting this topic in the first place.

[cider float 2,538]

No, at the end of the day we have a person is frustrated about something small. And then annoys others. And then that person becomes annoyed because people are telling them to chill out.

 

But let's say they are having fun....and the person nitpicking is just doing for amusement and the person who says "chill out it's just a kids show" is saying that just to have fun....okay then...they are all having fun. In that case....why in the world did you even start a discussion saying how people "shouldn't" use this argument? It's all in good fun right? You're saying it's fun for people to nitpick but it shouldn't make sense for someone to use the "a kids show" argument? The more you try to brush off it as fun, the more you're contradicting yourself with starting this topic in the first place.

In the end of the day it's a person that became frustrated over something small someone was overly analyzing or that person is frustrated because that person is not agreeing with them which they should just accept and be done with it and go to people that say the things they want to hear. 

 

I'm clearing the board that people that overanalyze things are not weird and that they are just like everyone else so stop disassociating them.

And I'm not sure what made you think there is a guideline in making a thread that isn't violating any of the forum guidelines. What is there another guidelines the "Princess Sunset" guidelines? I don't care if you find this thread pointless. I mean if you do why are you still here?

Edited October 28, 2015 by cider float

[Silver Stream. 708]

In the end of the day it's a person that became frustrated over something small someone was overly analyzing or that person is frustrated because that person is not agreeing with them which they should just accept and be done with it and go to people that say the things they want to hear. 

 

I'm clearing the board that people that overanalyze things are not weird and that they are just like everyone else so stop disassociating them.

Soooo now you're saying it's not fun? It seems you're changing things now. And as you said, people who dislike people who overanalyze the show aren't weird. I agree. And those who have a problem with that should get over it. Okay...I respect that.

.but one could say this: people who overanalyze the show should expect that not everyone will agree with them. And if someone jumps in saying "yo that's too much, chill out" then that person needs to "get over it and move on"

 

There will always be those who agree and disagree. A REAL critic must be prepared for both praises and counter criticism. A person who jumps in saying it's a kids show will appear. You have to be prepared for that.

 

 

First you create a topic saying the kids show argument is stupid. Then say those who over analyze it do it for fun. And those who come in and say "it's a kids show" do it for fun...contradiction right there. And then you backtrack and say how it's more frustrating and how people SHOULDN'T disagree with people and say it's a kid show? That if people disagree....they shouldn't post at all? And they need to go somewhere else where people say what they want to hear?