The benefits and pitfalls of cultural and ethnic representation?

[Jeric 46,860]

The good thing about having free time is that I can finally dig in to some old topics that were deemed 'unworthy' for topic discussion and revive them.

 

In this topic, @TheAnimatorOfficial brought up an interesting personal observation. I will quote him

As someone who's part Indian (and middle-eastern) I liked having the family in the latest episode being of this ethnicity.

Even though the Jeopardy Rule was invoked (question marks have power ... they are like the Tri Force of MLPF!), I think that this statement is very interesting when you start considering this through several lenses. First, I really liked the characters of Saffron and Coriander. I also thought their accents, attire, and the Tasty Treat's decor were well within what I have seen in Bangalore myself. I think the show runners did themselves proud here.

 

However, there is a responsibility when you invoke another culture on a show like Pony. For one, you accuracy is important, but how can one accurate depict a whole culture with the use of one or two characters? Could it run the risk of excluding another county's internal diversity? I visited India before, and like just about every other country, you have a range of traditions, accents, views, etc. Obviously you can't exactly throw dozens of unique cultural characters in a show just to showcase that. Would shows like Pony be prudent to consult to ensure they create an acceptable cultural depiction?

 

I am not huge on having to be restrictive on media due to political correctness, but as a viewer I do want to see more variety. Too often Indian characters sound like Apu from The Simpsons. How much does something like that impact children growing up watching shows like with a standard assumed visual or vocal characteristic? From the show's perspective, is it worth trying? I can imagine failure to represent a character correctly would frustrate many. Is the possible negative backlash from failure worth trying to expand the breadth of accessible characters? This fandom can be critical of mistakes. I can imagine the idea of DHX exploring Saddle Ariabia scares the shit out of them.

 

Tangentially, if this applies, how strong is your psychological association with a cultural or ethnic characterization? Like Mr. Official above I would assume that some would find a fondness in it. Whether the character becomes an avatar from someone, or it makes you feel like something you appreciate about yourself was also appreciated by others, I can see some positive elements worth the risk. I have heard friends mention that they dislike southern stereotypes that are shown in animation, even if the character is well rounded. I definitely have rolled my eyes at things like some gay stereotypes in comedy, though most of them are dated media, (Three's Company, Will & Grace).

 

I personally hope to see the Pony Lore expanded with more real world allusions.

[VengefulStrudel 1,495]

I agree, I like to see cultural variety in shows, but it can create a lot of backlash if handled improperly. I think DHX did well with the Indian ponies, nothing about them screamed "ugh, that's such an inaccurate stereotype" to me. I also liked New York ponies and the Russian/Romanian/Ukranian ones, especially the latter. Being from (south)east Europe myself, it's nice to hear an accent similar to what we have around here. Like you said, makes you feel like what you appreciate is also appreciated by others.

I definitely hope we'll get more characters from different nationalities in the future. Will give more depth to the MLP world and more variety~

[cmarston1 5,959]

Seeing some more cultural and ethnic representation in this show could be really interesting and allow for some more diversity and worldbuliding in the world of FIM.

But with how critical the fandom can be, if not handled well things could go really wrong, really fast.

[AlbaTross 1,586]

I don't know if cultural diversity is strictly necessary in a show like Ponies where the different colour palette and the fact that they're horses whose races are defined by other traits, makes the characters considerably more internationally friendly, especially when they're dubbed in other languages. However, it is also true that the mane six and the majority of the side cast are inspired by Western culture. It is not too much of a stretch to buy into the viewpoint that maybe more types of people should be represented in this series.

 

I think MLP can get away with a little more than other shows because it takes place in a world where the characters aren't human, and don't necessarily have to accurately represent any group of people in real life. A character like Zecora is recognized as being somewhat of a tribal African type character, but it's highly doubtful she was ever meant to explicitly represent any ethnicity in the truest sense, much like how the Buffaloes are supposed to vaguely represent Plains People or First Nations in general. On the other hand, there are fans who will still find certain portrayals of characters offensive, but that's true of anything.

 

Personally, I don't think the writers should be afraid to portray certain ethnic groups in MLP. They're not meant to be offensive portrayals, and they only vaguely represent the cultures they're supposed to represent anyways. If an ethnic type character is central to the story that is being told then I say, so be it. Especially with the supposed theme of exploring beyond Equestria, which hasn't been done much so far even if you count interacting with foreigners in Canterlot as being just as good as if Rarity and Pinkie actually went to Saddle Arabia.

[Goat-kun 2,528]

As a wandering shitlord, I am compelled to intrude on this debate!

 

Ponies, dragons, griffons, Arimaspi, minotaurs, centaurs, sea ponies, changelings, and various other mythological creatures … Where exactly do the IRL cultures fit in?

 

In fantasy, you’ll often find that creatures and their subfactions display traits extracted from various real human cultures, but throwing unchanged cultures into a magical world is kinda iffy if you ask me. It ruins immersion, it creates lore problems, and it’s just lazy. Of course, you can include them if you’ve planned that from the start, but I do suspect that this one magical world with colorful talking animals wasn’t tailored for such approach.

 

P.S: As a worldbuilder, never ask yourself what you can do for different cultures, but what different cultures can do for your world. Be pragmatic, minimalistic, and never accept regressive multiculti mindset which works kinda like a nasty, rainbow-colored hair clog in a pipe system of creativity.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

In "Spice Up Your Life", the whole thing would have been the same had Coriander and Saffron been any other ethnicity. They didn't feel like stereotypes and actually afforded Daniel Ingram a chance to do a different style of music. That in addition to the design aesthetic adds to the appeal of the show in that they're willing to pull inspiration from informed sources on other cultures.

 

The reason why the buffalo, the zebras, the yaks, and the dragons before "Gauntlet of Fire" don't work as well is because they are the embodiment of the "other". They're not seen on equal ground to the ponies and their cultures are seen as hostile or intimidating at first, then otherworldly and mystical if they're no longer an absolute threat. Regardless of whether or not their debut episodes end well, they still have certain stigmas attached to them, like Zecora being assigned the classic Magical Negro archetype given her African aesthetic and role in the show. The buffalo, likewise, are more like the depictions of Native Americans in the Old West, as in tribal warriors, which to some people looks totally anachronistic not only to the rest of Equestria but to the culture this show is coming out in. Similarly, the yaks' characterization as immature perfectionists similarly embodies a dehumanization of the other, as does the contrast of the dragons' overtly masculine, aggressive, and mostly virtueless culture against that of the more feminine ponies. Many of these depictions were very simplistic, existing only for the sake of plot, and didn't really consider what they were implying about their minority characters. It implied a world in which the ponies were factually superior to others and were a necessary civilizing force.

 

"Spice Up Your Life" did other cultures right; it knew how to incorporate one into its narrative without stereotyping or reducing its adherents to the mysterious outsiders. It's just as much a part of Equestria as the dominant Western culture is and the "otherness" of Coriander and Saffron is not a plot device. Their culture is an aesthetic backdrop against which the episode takes place, and enhances the episode by bringing in new art and music styles that MLP never did before. This is one time in which they got it right, and I only wish they could do this more often with non-ponies.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Wind Chaser

[snowflame 189]

Well while the characters were Indian inspired they are not actual Indians so you can take liberties with accuracy with showing these characters the same way you can with the other somewhat European and American inspired aspects of the show. But of course people should not be made in to charicatures but that did not happen here.

Edited June 17, 2016 by snowflame

[4april 374]

The good thing about having free time is that I can finally dig in to some old topics that were deemed 'unworthy' for topic discussion and revive them.

 

In this topic, @TheAnimatorOfficial brought up an interesting personal observation. I will quote him

 

Even though the Jeopardy Rule was invoked (question marks have power ... they are like the Tri Force of MLPF!), I think that this statement is very interesting when you start considering this through several lenses. First, I really liked the characters of Saffron and Coriander. I also thought their accents, attire, and the Tasty Treat's decor were well within what I have seen in Bangalore myself. I think the show runners did themselves proud here.

 

However, there is a responsibility when you invoke another culture on a show like Pony. For one, you accuracy is important, but how can one accurate depict a whole culture with the use of one or two characters? Could it run the risk of excluding another county's internal diversity? I visited India before, and like just about every other country, you have a range of traditions, accents, views, etc. Obviously you can't exactly throw dozens of unique cultural characters in a show just to showcase that. Would shows like Pony be prudent to consult to ensure they create an acceptable cultural depiction?

 

I am not huge on having to be restrictive on media due to political correctness, but as a viewer I do want to see more variety. Too often Indian characters sound like Apu from The Simpsons. How much does something like that impact children growing up watching shows like with a standard assumed visual or vocal characteristic? From the show's perspective, is it worth trying? I can imagine failure to represent a character correctly would frustrate many. Is the possible negative backlash from failure worth trying to expand the breadth of accessible characters? This fandom can be critical of mistakes. I can imagine the idea of DHX exploring Saddle Ariabia scares the shit out of them.

 

Tangentially, if this applies, how strong is your psychological association with a cultural or ethnic characterization? Like Mr. Official above I would assume that some would find a fondness in it. Whether the character becomes an avatar from someone, or it makes you feel like something you appreciate about yourself was also appreciated by others, I can see some positive elements worth the risk. I have heard friends mention that they dislike southern stereotypes that are shown in animation, even if the character is well rounded. I definitely have rolled my eyes at things like some gay stereotypes in comedy, though most of them are dated media, (Three's Company, Will & Grace).

 

I personally hope to see the Pony Lore expanded with more real world allusions.

 

 

Let me judge, an Indian who lives in Bangalore.

 

I think they did quite well in representing the culture. The accents sounded very authentic. I never felt like it was stereotypical. It did not show a complete picture, but it did show a positive image. I believe Daniel Ingram's song models itself on bollywood music.

 

Looking forward to seeing more cultures within Equestrai.