Have Twilight and Starlight really learned their lesson?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

looking back, in Twilight's case- Spike reminded her (in "The Crystalling") that she needed to give Starlight her own space to make her own decisions in choosing her friends, as Sunbutt did for her. Now, in "No Second Prances", she completely regresses and stalks Starlight, helicopter parenting over her, trying to choose her friends for her. 

 

And in Starlight's case (god, where do I begin. she's the walking literal of "old habits die hard")- she said herself (in "No Second Prances") that she guessed her first instinct shouldn't be to magically command ponies to act the way that she wanted them to (right after she majik'd Big Mac). Yet, she goes and does just that in "Every Little Thing She Does". 

 

honestly, I have to wonder- are these two really even learning anything, at this point? 

[KrazyDashie 1,847]

well, when starlight chose Trixie (who had a history with twilight) to be her friend, she started to act that way. (which to me makes sense) and starlight in every little thing she does, was stressing out, i doubt her first instinct was to that anyways...

[ManaMinori 4,145]

well, when starlight chose Trixie (who had a history with twilight) to be her friend, she started to act that way. (which to me makes sense) and starlight in every little thing she does, was stressing out, i doubt her first instinct was to that anyways...

no it wouldn't make sense. This is the princess of Friendship. She's supposed to have grown over 6 seasons, and then she goes and does this. All that BS about forgiveness with villains and reforming them, and she can't even truly forgive Trixie. She was the same way with Discord. And Sunset (see how long it took her to take her hand, when she arrived back in EqG RR)?

and Starlight doesn't have a hoof to stand on either. She's done that three times now. Stressing out isn't an excuse

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

6 seasons of development... For me, the development of Twilight Sparkle began in S2, especially Lesson Zero, until that episode, she just treat friendship lessons like a homework schedule like Starlight did (Twilight worked up so hard but Starlight just plain lazy didnt bother about homework at all), so i exclude S1 because i dont treat her progression at that time seriously. In S2 finale, she is right all along so the lesson is she should trust her instinct, which she kinda does all the time, nothing more. In S3, all she do is practicing magic, prepare for the final test and then screw up everyone then become a princess, and enforce the idea the friendship is important, again. From season 1-3, Twilight look the same to me, not really different, she started look different after she gets wings, you become a princess, you cant behave like when you are peasants, she even forget to "sunshine sunshine" to Cadance in Three a Crowd, she is more calm and formal from now on. 6 season of development is just a equivalent of over 1 year in Equestria and half of them are not that significant like i stated above, what i mean, Twilight is still herself afterall, still an bookworm, an egghead, check lists, treat everything like a test, she even cover her jealousy with her Princess of Friendship status in What About Discord... She still Twilight afterall and i like it, wings cant change it.

 

Twilight and Starlight are perfect match for each other afterall.

[Thrond 3,262]

Twilight... yes, mostly, although she seems to have forgotten the lesson again in "Every Little Thing She Does," since she's right back to planning Starlight's friendship lessons. I guess she never had any reason not to, though - wasn't the issue always that she was overbearing about it? I dunno, Twilight has barely ever grown meaningfully since season 2.

 

Starlight is more complicated. "Every Little Thing She Does" was a bit of a blunder, and as good as I think its ideas are, Starlight's initial remorselessness does change the way her eventual apology comes across. That she still seems guilty and distrustful of herself in the finale without making any significant blunders makes it feel a lot more sincere, though.

[LeafFerret 3,382]

Twilight, her personality seemed to have changed ever since she had her wings, she went from being a jerk and being interested in her interests and her close friends to being an uninteresting pony where she pretty much just talks about friendship and trying to be perfect most of the time and not trying to disappoint Celestia, she also rarely interacts with any other ponies outside the Mane 6 and the princesses, I mean, she probably doesn't even talk to Sunburst or Thorax quite a lot and I thought No Second Prances was her biggest downfall and it was clear that she was not the pony that I used to know, she's practically now a pony who's living off her past because of her name and not showing any real purpose most of the time.

 

As for Starlight, yes she did try to hypnotise the Mane 5 in ELTSD but she had a different backstory to Twilight, she didn't grow up with any real friends most of the time and her only friend left to go to Celestia's school so having interactions with ponies that she doesn't know quite well can be a problem for her also after the episode, she had since tried to control her magic afterwards as it was Discord who teleported everyone to another location. Also I find it ironic that Twilight got Starlight to do her friends interests and yet we never saw Twilight do it herself, I mean when was the last time we saw her baking a cake or playing with animals?

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Twilight's honestly a pretty lousy mentor. Ever since No Second Prances, it's become clear that she's far more interested in being Starlight's best friend rather than being her mentor. 

 

As for Starlight, I don't think it makes a difference whether she learns her lesson or not. Even if she continues to allow her lack of empathy for others to show, even if she still exerts her power over others, she's still just going to get rewarded in the end anyway. 

[Thrond 3,262]

As for Starlight, I don't think it makes a difference whether she learns her lesson or not. Even if she continues to allow her lack of empathy for others to show, even if she still exerts her power over others, she's still just going to get rewarded in the end anyway. 

I don't really think she got "rewarded" in "Every Little Thing She Does." It's the episodes where she does something worthwhile where she actually gets some kind of reward.  

[sweetolebob18 726]

I think part of Twilight's problem is that she feels more responsible for Starlight than she does for her friends.  She hovers over Starlight like she hovers over Spike. She is like AJ in Somepony To Watch Over Me

 

Starlight knows her lessons intellectually but not emotionally.  That is, when she stops to think things through, she gets it.  But, when she just reacts, it often comes out wrong.  It will take awhile to correct this problem

[Cleverclover 1,526]

I don't really think she got "rewarded" in "Every Little Thing She Does."

 

 

Oh, yes she sure as hell did! 

 

She got to remain friends with five ponies who should want absolutely nothing to do with her anymore. Whose friendship and forgiveness she clearly does not deserve. 

 

That's one hell of a reward if you ask me. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Cleverclover

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I think part of Twilight's problem is that she feels more responsible for Starlight than she does for her friends.  She hovers over Starlight like she hovers over Spike. She is like AJ in Somepony To Watch Over Me

 

Starlight knows her lessons intellectually but not emotionally.  That is, when she stops to think things through, she gets it.  But, when she just reacts, it often comes out wrong.  It will take awhile to correct this problem

I think it's more of a desire to really impress Sunbutt than truly teach SG. Because stalking her, and trying to decide her friend for her, back in No Second Prances was just...ugh. 

 

and it showed just how "far" Twilight's really come. Did she learn nothing from "Keep Calm and Flutter On", when Fluttershy said she gave so much slack to Discord, because they were friends? Yet, Twilight- the frikin princess of Friendship was set on not giving Trixie another chance. She keeps holding on to past grudges- just as she did with Discord. and for the PoF, it's stupid and immature.  And son't get me started on her working out friendship lessons for SG in every little detail, and chaperoning on the lessons, because that's not at all how Princess Sunbutt did it for her

[Thrond 3,262]

Oh, yes she sure as hell did! 

 

She got to remain friends with five ponies who should want absolutely nothing to do with her anymore. Whose friendship and forgiveness she clearly does not deserve. 

 

That's one hell of a reward if you ask me. 

Meh, it's a return to the status quo for someone who clearly needs a lot of help. Not exactly sure why they aren't more suspicious of her, but I think the idea is that she learned from her mistake and shouldn't be punished more when she's already guilty over it. 

 

Would be a lot easier to accept if she came to the realization on her own instead of having Twilight tell her mind control is wrong and then promptly forget about it, but the idea's there. 

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Meh, it's a return to the status quo for someone who clearly needs a lot of help. Not exactly sure why they aren't more suspicious of her, but I think the idea is that she learned from her mistake and shouldn't be punished more when she's already guilty over it. 

 

Would be a lot easier to accept if she came to the realization on her own instead of having Twilight tell her mind control is wrong and then promptly forget about it, but the idea's there. 

given how she's been holding the same belief all her life, I can't see SG easily coming out of it, and continuing to abuse her magic to get ponies to do what she wants. she may feel guilty over it one moment, and YES< SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE TOLD THAT ITS WRONG, but it's not going to be something that goes away in a day, and I can't see SG not doing it, as scary as it is. I mean, she's on her third strike with that- if not fourth, already. Should the ponies keep cutting her slack....I can't say. I hate what she's doing and how she's doing it, but looking back at all the slack Fluttershy gave Discord in "KCaFO"......-siiiigh-

honestly, I still don't like her, and hate that she's in the show, for these reasons. It's going to be a steep learning process for her, because of her past, wanthing her make the same mistake over and over again is extremely painful and morally WRONG

[Thrond 3,262]

given how she's been holding the same belief all her life, I can't see SG easily coming out of it, and continuing to abuse her magic to get ponies to do what she wants. she may feel guilty over it one moment, and YES< SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE TOLD THAT ITS WRONG, but it's not going to be something that goes away in a day, and I can't see SG not doing it, as scary as it is. I mean, she's on her third strike with that- if not fourth, already. Should the ponies keep cutting her slack....I can't say. I hate what she's doing and how she's doing it, but looking back at all the slack Fluttershy gave Discord in "KCaFO"......-siiiigh-

honestly, I still don't like her, and hate that she's in the show, for these reasons. It's going to be a steep learning process for her, because of her past, wanthing her make the same mistake over and over again is extremely painful and morally WRONG

Well, as is, I'd be surprised if season 7 wound up having her repeat the same mistakes without anyone batting an eye, since she seems to have concluded her proper redemption arc now, so thankfully we might not get much more of that. 

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Well, as is, I'd be surprised if season 7 wound up having her repeat the same mistakes without anyone batting an eye, since she seems to have concluded her proper redemption arc now, so thankfully we might not get much more of that. 

the only thing I hope that she learned in that finale is NOT TO USE MAGIC to solve a problem

had enough of dat shit with Twilight, and royally effing it up, back in early seasons

[cmarston1 5,958]

She keeps making the same morally questionable mistakes time and time again, because she has never had to face any sort of major consequences to her actions. Which is why I am/was not really keen on her story arc.

[Prince Firemane 309]

Starlight to me seems to be lacking a certain amount of empathy for those around her. Not to say that she's completely without empathy, but she shows repeated lack of interest of most ponies around her. She has to be told not to repeat actions that are reminiscent of her former self and seems to have a lack of self-awareness of that fact. And time and time again, she's shown that she is just not interested in making any friends, even after doing so with Trixie. Even then, the two of them had to bond over their dark pasts and actions which allowed Starlight to empathize with her on a deeper level. But for average ponies around her in her day-to-day life, she's just not interested. It sometimes honestly feels like she's just using Twilight to expand her already needlessly overblown knowledge and power over magic.

 

And that's the problem. Starlight has shown such incredible amounts of magical skill and knowledge already which keeps exponentially growing for no reason. She quite easily surpasses Twilight in sheer power, this is quite evident because we keep having to be told that the two of them are on some kind of equal footing yet we're consistently shown the contrary. I mean, the fact that they would even be close to equal footing in spite of Twilight's Alicorn magic ((Which we have been shown to be incredibly powerful in it's own right; the four parts of Alicorn magic at the time were combined and shown to be equal in raw power to all of the rest of pony magic in Equestria combined.)) and Starlight's lack thereof is nothing short of complete and total bullshit.

 

Again, that's the problem. Starlight never has to work for anything, she never has to struggle or face the fear that she might not be able to reach her goal. She just simply does it, or it gets simply handed to her by way of her ability to somehow find ancient powerful spells and edit them to her own uses. She keeps having to learn the cardinal lesson that magic isn't the answer to everything yet she repeatedly ignores that because she isn't bound by those conventions. At this point, magic really is the answer to everything for her because she can do everything with magic. Her skills, somehow acquired knowledge and potential are never hindered, are never given limitations; there's no ceiling. They just keep getting higher and bigger with no end in sight.

 

As far as Twilight goes, people are criticizing her for stalking Starlight and trying to keep a friendship from forming because she didn't trust Trixie. Honestly... I don't really see anything wrong with that. Twilight had pretty good fucking reasons not to trust Trixie. When it comes to villain redemption, they have to earn it. Discord did, as did Sunset Shimmer; a lesson that Starlight of course had to avoid. Trixie had done nothing to earn that redemption and subsequent trust of others. She said she wanted it, but then so did Discord and look how well that turned out the first time around. Yes, Twilight did go behind Starlight's back after she said she'd trust her which is objectively wrong; but I'm personally jaded because I don't think that Starlight is worthy of that trust. I don't think anyone should be completely trusted not to stray back down a dark path after so soon leaving it when someone who closely fits their former self is staring them in the face. If I have a friend who was a former drug addict who truly was working very hard to change themselves, I won't allow them to be around another drug addict who shows no remorse up till that point. Judge it how you will. But even then, Trixie proved herself to Twilight and Twilight immediately backed off which I think is the proper move. Twilight is protective, and yes, perhaps a tad bit distrustful of Starlight's decision-making; but her heart was in the right place and she certainly had ample reason to do what she did.

[Tropico 225]

^ i like that point of view. specially about helicopter twilight & the former addict friend. 

 

 

Twilight, her personality seemed to have changed ever since she had her wings, she went from being a jerk and being interested in her interests and her close friends to being an uninteresting pony where she pretty much just talks about friendship and trying to be perfect most of the time and not trying to disappoint Celestia, she also rarely interacts with any other ponies outside the Mane 6 and the princesses, I mean, she probably doesn't even talk to Sunburst or Thorax quite a lot and I thought No Second Prances was her biggest downfall and it was clear that she was not the pony that I used to know, she's practically now a pony who's living off her past because of her name and not showing any real purpose most of the time.

 

 

omg i didnt see it this way and it can be possible. makes me sad tho. i wish twilight hanged out so much more.

 

 

twilight has to learn to teach diferent, i think. her learing lessons work for her cause shes obssessive like this. but may not work for other ponies.

 

i expected starlight to learn faster and not to control with magic the other ponies again, but well. i hope her character doesnt fall in the same topic again and again like other ponies do (for example i think rainbow dash tends to have the same problems and traits than S1, like she never learns)

 

i feel bad about starlight tho. cause she really wants to learn and tries, but for example spike always is remembering her what she did at S5. poor girl

[Castle Bleck 19,291]

And that's the problem. Starlight has shown such incredible amounts of magical skill and knowledge already which keeps exponentially growing for no reason. She quite easily surpasses Twilight in sheer power, this is quite evident because we keep having to be told that the two of them are on some kind of equal footing yet we're consistently shown the contrary. I mean, the fact that they would even be close to equal footing in spite of Twilight's Alicorn magic ((Which we have been shown to be incredibly powerful in it's own right; the four parts of Alicorn magic at the time were combined and shown to be equal in raw power to all of the rest of pony magic in Equestria combined.)) and Starlight's lack thereof is nothing short of complete and total bullshit.

 

Unicorn!Twilight: *Is the Element Of Magic.*

 

Sombra: *Is the long-lost vice president of the Umbrum.*

 

Trixie & Rarity: *Are suped up by the Alicorn Amulet and Inspiration Manifestation (and/or, in Rarity's case, possessed by NMM in the comics).*

 

Starlight: *Just has "potential."*

 

Which one doesn't fit, IYO?

Edited January 29, 2017 by A.V.