The Brotherhood of Steel depicted in Fallout 4.

[Guest]

Ad Victoriam!

 

Alright everyone, Fallout 4 has made some serious changes to the Brotherhood of Steel and I'd like to hear what you think.

 

Also, I am adding a video that I happen to Agree with. I hope you enjoy!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KamfIaMZFfk

Edited January 29, 2017 by Guest

[Dark Horse 12,962]

Hey @@GaryTheGriffon,

 

I have made an adjustment to the topic title in order to better clarify what this thread is discussing. I'm assuming you refer to their sudden shift in general philosophy from their more "heroic" Fallout 3 depiction?

 

Personally, I think it just brings them more in line with their original outlook from the first two Fallout games, as well implementing elements from the Midwestern Brotherhood that featured in Fallout: Tactics (their airship and more Neo-Feudal society). I don't particularly mind them, bigotry towards non-humans aside, they have generally valid reasons for not trusting synths, and they're still considerably less extreme than the mind-boggling structure of the Institute. Science for the sake of science never ends well.

[Love You 100]

Fallout 1 is the best depiction of the BoS next to NV, 3 had them be awful goody two shoes and fallout 4 fixed that slightly by having them be fanatic anti-future tech. better than 3, but now they're just ok

Edited January 29, 2017 by Aigis-Kin

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

Fallout 4's Brotherhood lines up more with their depiction in the classic games and New Vegas, so I appreciate that. Though they seem more fanatical than ever to me. I liked the heroic FO3 interpretation, but it's different than how they usually are.

 

Anyway, I'm against them. Their "Let's wipe out all the super mutants, ghouls and synths!" attitude disturbs me, they want to go all out genocidal it seems, reminds me of the Enclave actually, just with not as cool power armor. Don't like the institute either, creating what seems to be sentient life and basically enslaving it, kidnapping people for experiments, etc.

 

The Railroad and the Minutemen have my support.

Edited January 29, 2017 by BasementSea

[Guest]

Fallout 4's Brotherhood lines up more with their depiction in the classic games and New Vegas, so I appreciate that. Though they seem more fanatical than ever to me. I liked the heroic FO3 interpretation, but it's different than how they usually are.

 

Anyway, I'm against them. Their "Let's wipe out all the super mutants, ghouls and synths!" attitude disturbs me, they want to go all out genocidal it seems, reminds me of the Enclave actually, just with not as cool power armor. Don't like the institute either, creating what seems to be sentient life and basically enslaving it, kidnapping people for experiments, etc.

 

The Railroad and the Minutemen have my support.

They never said anything about killing non Feral Ghouls and as far as super mutant goes there's only two in the game that aren't monsters and one of them Cures himself, and since his cure works on his particular strain he could cure all the super mutants in the Commonwealth since all the Commonwealth super mutants were made by the Institute.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Guest

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

They never said anything about killing non Feral Ghouls and as far as super mutant goes there's only two in the game that aren't monsters and one of them Cures himself, and since his cure works on his particular strain he could cure all the super mutants in the Commonwealth since all the Commonwealth super mutants were made by the Institute.

 

If you don't cure Virgil, they actually task you with killing him. It's the quest titled "Loose ends" I believe. They don't care that he's peaceful, or even that he's part of the reason they got into the institute at all if you side with them. They want him dead anyway. While there's only a handful of friendly mutants in this game, there's more from previous games too, like Marcus and Fawkes, I imagine this Brotherhood would want them dead as well. I also doubt Virgil is the same strand of mutant as the others, as he's retained his intelligence, while the other Commonwealth mutants don't seem to have kept all theirs.

 

 Also, while they don't seem to aim to kill non-feral ghouls, they say super racist stuff to Hancock if you bring him on the Prydwen.

Edited January 29, 2017 by BasementSea

[Guest]

If you don't cure Virgil, they actually task you with killing him. It's the quest titled "Loose ends" I believe. They don't care that he's peaceful, or even that he's part of the reason they got into the institute at all if you side with them. They want him dead anyway. While there's only a handful of friendly mutants in this game, there's more from previous games too, like Marcus and Fawkes, I imagine this Brotherhood would want them dead as well. I also doubt Virgil is the same strand of mutant as the others, as he's retained his intelligence, while the other Commonwealth mutants don't seem to have kept all theirs.

 

 Also, while they don't seem to aim to kill non-feral ghouls, they say super racist stuff to Hancock if you bring him on the Prydwen.

First of all, what they say to Hancock is not Racist. Ghouls are not a 'Race'. They are mutated humans. As for Virgil you can convince Maxson to spare Virgil if you have high enough charisma.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Guest

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

First of all, what they say to Hancock is not Racist. Ghouls are not a 'Race'. They are mutated humans. As for Virgil you can convince Maxson to spare Virgil if you have high enough charisma.

 

Alright, maybe "Racist" is the wrong term here. However, they're still prejudiced and that's not okay. Being fair to the Brotherhood, they aren't the only ones who treat ghouls like this, it's a common thing in the wasteland, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

 

As for the Charisma check to save Virgil, I didn't know that. It's certainly good that the Brotherhood can still be reasoned with at times, however the fact that they want him killed for simply being a mutant alone still disturbs me, same with their attitude towards synths, who they basically want to commit genocide on.

[Guest]

Alright, maybe "Racist" is the wrong term here. However, they're still prejudiced and that's not okay. Being fair to the Brotherhood, they aren't the only ones who treat ghouls like this, it's a common thing in the wasteland, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

 

As for the Charisma check to save Virgil, I didn't know that. It's certainly good that the Brotherhood can still be reasoned with at times, however the fact that they want him killed for simply being a mutant alone still disturbs me, same with their attitude towards synths, who they basically want to commit genocide on.

I agree with you about the Synths, but the Super Mutant thing is a bit different. You can't take chances in a world like Fallout. We can because the real world is very different, but if I were to see bags filled with eviscerated body parts and human bones hanging from the ceilings and Super Mutants munching on them I'd scream, run away and find an army to carpet bomb the place. An extreme minority can not and should not spare the others or immediately grant the minority absolute or even begrudging trust. Virgil and the others will have to earn respect.

 

As for the Synth distrust you can also convince Maxson to spare paladin Danse if you have the Charisma. Once one of the so called 'enemy' is determined to be trusted they will be spared. But for all others, no mercy. And as far as things go, the Synths won't have a problem if they just keep their mouths shut and don't let it slip that they're Synths, and that's just for the Synths who know they're Synths, who knows how many don't know what they really are.

Also, I just noticed I went up to Cupcake!!

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

I agree with you about the Synths, but the Super Mutant thing is a bit different. You can't take chances in a world like Fallout. We can because the real world is very different, but if I were to see bags filled with eviscerated body parts and human bones hanging from the ceilings and Super Mutants munching on them I'd scream, run away and find an army to carpet bomb the place. An extreme minority can not and should not spare the others or immediately grant the minority absolute or even begrudging trust. Virgil and the others will have to earn respect.

 

As for the Synth distrust you can also convince Maxson to spare paladin Danse if you have the Charisma. Once one of the so called 'enemy' is determined to be trusted they will be spared. But for all others, no mercy. And as far as things go, the Synths won't have a problem if they just keep their mouths shut and don't let it slip that they're Synths, and that's just for the Synths who know they're Synths, who knows how many don't know what they really are.

Also, I just noticed I went up to Cupcake!!

 

Caution is understandable, genocide without mercy is not. Yes, the majority of Super Mutants are hostile. I don't think Super Mutants should blindly be trusted, they're created by a mutation that often affects the brain in horrible ways rather than just the body. However, they want Virgil dead even after helping you reach the institute and showing he's clearly still intelligent and reasonable. That they still jump straight to murder after that isn't okay. Maybe send some armed people to speak with him just to make sure if they really have to, but jumping to his execution even after he's helped them...That's wrong.

 

 They can be reasoned out of this, yes. But they will still murder both Virgil and Danse if you can't talk them out of it. The Danse situation especially rings alarm bells as he's been loyal to the Brotherhood for a long time. Learning he's a Synth making them take precautions is understandable, but but just going straight to execution isn't.

[Guest]

Caution is understandable, genocide without mercy is not. Yes, the majority of Super Mutants are hostile. I don't think Super Mutants should blindly be trusted, they're created by a mutation that often affects the brain in horrible ways rather than just the body. However, they want Virgil dead even after helping you reach the institute and showing he's clearly still intelligent and reasonable. That they still jump straight to murder after that isn't okay. Maybe send some armed people to speak with him just to make sure if they really have to, but jumping to his execution even after he's helped them...That's wrong.

 

 They can be reasoned out of this, yes. But they will still murder both Virgil and Danse if you can't talk them out of it. The Danse situation especially rings alarm bells as he's been loyal to the Brotherhood for a long time. Learning he's a Synth making them take precautions is understandable, but but just going straight to execution isn't.

I agree. You should watch the Oxhorn video on the Quest Blind betrayal. Turns out Bethesda had planned for you to be able to challenge Maxson to become the new Elder of the Brotherhood.

 

And technically, he only finds out about Virgil if you tell him. I always kind of hoped he could be recruited to the Brotherhood like Dr Li. Just imagine the two of them meeting on the Prydwen. I think my Daw meter would break.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

I agree. You should watch the Oxhorn video on the Quest Blind betrayal. Turns out Bethesda had planned for you to be able to challenge Maxson to become the new Elder of the Brotherhood.

 

And technically, he only finds out about Virgil if you tell him. I always kind of hoped he could be recruited to the Brotherhood like Dr Li. Just imagine the two of them meeting on the Prydwen. I think my Daw meter would break.

 

I've seen that video. The alternate ending where you become elder sounds pretty good to me, definitely an option I would have enjoyed. I'm rather dissapointed it wasn't included.

[Guest]

I've seen that video. The alternate ending where you become elder sounds pretty good to me, definitely an option I would have enjoyed. I'm rather dissapointed it wasn't included.

Same. You can be the General of the Minutemen, but not the Elder of the Brotherhood. But if you think about it from a lore point, the Brotherhood ending will likely be Canonical. You become the Sentinel, making you second only to Maxson. You'd be next in line for Eldership, no one in the Brotherhood will go against you after Leading the Charge against the mutants of Fort Strong and the attack on the Institute. You're a bloody Hero! The Sole Survivor would be the next Elder...

 

OH!

 

What if you meet the Sole Survivor in Fallout 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey @@GaryTheGriffon,

 

I have made an adjustment to the topic title in order to better clarify what this thread is discussing. I'm assuming you refer to their sudden shift in general philosophy from their more "heroic" Fallout 3 depiction?

 

Personally, I think it just brings them more in line with their original outlook from the first two Fallout games, as well implementing elements from the Midwestern Brotherhood that featured in Fallout: Tactics (their airship and more Neo-Feudal society). I don't particularly mind them, bigotry towards non-humans aside, they have generally valid reasons for not trusting synths, and they're still considerably less extreme than the mind-boggling structure of the Institute. Science for the sake of science never ends well.

Eyup, the Institute is a few cans short of a six pack.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

Same. You can be the General of the Minutemen, but not the Elder of the Brotherhood. But if you think about it from a lore point, the Brotherhood ending will likely be Canonical. You become the Sentinel, making you second only to Maxson. You'd be next in line for Eldership, no one in the Brotherhood will go against you after Leading the Charge against the mutants of Fort Strong and the attack on the Institute. You're a bloody Hero! The Sole Survivor would be the next Elder...

 

OH!

 

What if you meet the Sole Survivor in Fallout 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Not sure why specifically the Brotherhood ending would be the canon one. It could be any of them really. However, typically in the past the canon ending would be the "Good" karma one, with the more recent games like NV and 4 the variety of factions make that more difficult. If they kept up with the good karma idea though, I'd say the Minuteman ending would be canon in that case. I feel they should try to keep things vague however.

 

I wouldn't really like to meet the Sole Survivor, as that kind of invalidates the player creation aspect of them even more than FO4 already does. They're already the most defined protagonist as it is. I think they should try to avoid being too specific with making "Canon" versions of former player characters.

[Guest]

Not sure why specifically the Brotherhood ending would be the canon one. It could be any of them really. However, typically in the past the canon ending would be the "Good" karma one, with the more recent games like NV and 4 the variety of factions make that more difficult. If they kept up with the good karma idea though, I'd say the Minuteman ending would be canon in that case. I feel they should try to keep things vague however.

 

I wouldn't really like to meet the Sole Survivor, as that kind of invalidates the player creation aspect of them even more than FO4 already does. They're already the most defined protagonist as it is. I think they should try to avoid being too specific with making "Canon" versions of former player characters.

Good point, but there is a fun little theory going around that Deacon of the Railroad is the lone wanderer from fallout 3, here's a link

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

Good point, but there is a fun little theory going around that Deacon of the Railroad is the lone wanderer from fallout 3, here's a link

 

Oh, I know of that. It's a fun theory, and a Lone Wanderer Deacon doesn't sound too bad. But it's not canon. Possible, even plausible, but not fact. Something like that in the next game, where someone "Could" be the Sole Survivor, but isn't necessarily officially them is fine, but a definitive "This is them for sure" I don't like much.

[Guest]

Oh, I know of that. It's a fun theory, and a Lone Wanderer Deacon doesn't sound too bad. But it's not canon. Possible, even plausible, but not fact. Something like that in the next game, where someone "Could" be the Sole Survivor, but isn't necessarily officially them is fine, but a definitive "This is them for sure" I don't like much.

Same. I think keeping it vague, like we meet a new Elder but we don't learn much of their backstory would be good

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

Same. I think keeping it vague, like we meet a new Elder but we don't learn much of their backstory would be good

 

That'd be fine. If you like the idea of an Elder Sole Survivor you can go with it. If not, well there isn't any concrete proof it's them, so just go with whatever SS you want.

 

Though, I think the best option would be to avoid FO4 stuff entirely except for small references and maybe a returning character or two. Set it far away from the Commonwealth.