Justice For All: Starlight's Inclusion is Unbalanced

[Goat-kun 2,530]

All I see is more proof that Sisters should legalize the use of comfy chairs and soft cushions.

 

People are able to laugh away all kinds of sins if the character is entertaining and thus such creations are assimilated within the fandom. If the audience screams at the gladiator who spared his defeated foe then it is because the foe wasn't providing enough entertainment.

[Jeric 46,871]

51 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Woah hey, easy on the quick draw on that statement I was just analysing the episode as unbiased as possible keeping my feelings for the character out of it. Of course I know she reprimanded herself through psychological trauma in her dreams, a great showing of how she has remorse for her actions, but I was tackling more the physical reprimanding or lack there of by the princesses. I truly feel Celestia made the right call with some positive reassurance so to build up her self-worth again after experiencing what Starlight was feeling. That does not change in the long run that this could have spiraled into a poor mindset for her character to go with her gut. Luckfully, that mindset is properly reprimanded in "To Change A Changeling" so there is nice control there.

All I was stating was who she messed with and the final outcome for said characters reacting toward her. Just trying to keep it simple about the actions and not the feelings.

The unnecessary bolding of what I said tells me that that it would likely be a waste of time to read any further. Just as you did with the episode, you conveniently edited the nuance and context out. I'm not so trite to the point that I emphasize pronouns and articles when I speak. 

I pointed out that you were wrong. It happens. I would not have done it at all ... but you had a modifier in your sentence that was explicitly definitive. That level of surety demands to be challenged, and for good reason because it acts as a powerful life lesson. Far too many people on the internet like to treat a text block like it's emotional masturbation. 

Also, if the writer had Starlight reprimanded after the rising or falling action -- or even the resolution -- it would be awkward writing for this show for several stylistic reasons. Read Elements of Style. It says everything about that. No, tbe better argument, and one that most people that dislike Starlight in the episode haven't bothered to make en masse, is that Starlight could have responded to the Princesses geniality with acknowledgement that she does need to work on her approach. Not a reprimand, but an apology with soecific acknowledgement. 

Anyway, it's neither here nor there. As the show and the writers have acknowledged through the characters, her rush to conflict resolution is a trait she has. I don't fault anyone for disliking that direction they took with Starlight, but too often these complaints come off like someone who isn't a fan of bananas complaining about a specific banana split they had a week ago. It's ... odd. You don't like bananas, it's cool, but you certainly don't have to specify instances of not liking it when you buttress an argument. And no specificity is not an attempt at opening a dialog, because if it was you would not have fervently defended your point of view based on me simply stating an element in you post was wrong.

Bananas man. I'm not saying that is what you did here, but I do look at the history of several of the regulars here, and it's easy to start to see patterns. It's one that pops up a lot at this site in particular. I'm sure you'll do better next time. 

And no, I did not emphasize you'll in the above sentence. My bluntness is fairly obvious when I intend it, as this post shows. If it isn't obvious, it isn't there. Make sure you are dead right before drawing that figurative line in the sand with words. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,987]

I like Starlight at this point. Her interactions with other characters have won me over. Despite this, I still have a rather big issue with one thing, her overpoweredness. It is still something that doesn't seem well established as to why its a thing. Sure, some could say she just studied a lot, but that even seems a bit overkill considering she is able to match an alicorn in magical prowess. It doesn't sit well with me. None of her backstory at this point properly establishes her abilities and why they are what they are. Every time she comes up with some random new spell thing that never seemed to exist before, I roll my eyes. That's where my confliction for the characters lies. Sadly, her backstory seems like it will remain in a constant muddy state.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

5 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

I like Starlight at this point. Her interactions with other characters have won me over. Despite this, I still have a rather big issue with one thing, her overpoweredness. It is still something that doesn't seem well established as to why its a thing. Sure, some could say she just studied a lot, but that even seems a bit overkill considering she is able to match an alicorn in magical prowess. It doesn't sit well with me. None of her backstory at this point properly establishes her abilities and why they are what they are. Every time she comes up with some random new spell thing that never seemed to exist before, I roll my eyes. That's where my confliction for the characters lies. Sadly, her backstory seems like it will remain in a constant muddy state.

Power Levels are bullshit. Now that that’s out of the way...

With the revelation the Starswirl is stronger than Twilight, even if only a little, I think it’s safe to say that Unicorns can be just as strong with magic as Alicorns. It’s enough for me to say that Starlight is just the next Starswirl and leave it at that.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:29 AM, ShootingStar159 said:

So, this idea is, of course, nothing new. It’s been thrown around since day one. I do have some problems with the argument, and they’re pretty ironic given your post title.

Justice for All: The main six and Spike have done things worthy of punishment, yet they always get away with it, sometimes without even a lecture or word of censure.

Applejack gave more than a dozen ponies food poisoning through negligence, Twilight had her infamous “lesson zero” moment where she brainwashed the whole town into a full on brawl, Dash sabotaged the weather factory, potentially causing a drought and starving millions. These are just examples off the top of my head, I can go and find more examples if I wanted, but the point is that ponies escaping “justice” is nothing new. It would actually be unjust for Twilight and the others to punish Starlight when they themselves have gotten away with so much.

The second problem is that the absolute worst thing we know Starlight did was lie and steal. (Oh, and stalking)

Starlight built her village from the ground up as we saw in Rock Solid Friendship. Her villagers came to her and joined her village because they wanted somewhere to belong bad enough that they were willing to live by the rules she set forth, and one of those rules was no Cutie marks. They weren’t mad about her rules, they were mad about how she wasn’t following them herself. So, the only ones she has really wronged was Twilight and her friends. Which leads me to my final point.

Twilights willingness to forgive Starlight, and I do mean forgive, without preconditions like a punishment, is why she is the Princess of Friendship. I have always been of the opinion that while Twilight claimed for herself the title “Princess of Friendship” in  Twilights Kingdom, The Cutie Remark is where she earned that title. By forgiving someone who didn’t deserve it, and, by offering her friendship, Twilight was able to create a way they both won. And with everything Starlight accomplishes, Twilight is proven right.

Forgiveness and understanding are the most important parts of friendship, it’s how Twilight earned her key, how she talked down Starlight, how she saved Stygian, and I imagine it’s a trend that is going to continue.

Okay yeah, just all of the this. Presented better than I could.

[Thrond 3,264]

On 11/9/2017 at 5:37 PM, Jeric said:

Yes she was. Just not the way you wanted it to happen. 

I have my reasons, but ultimately that about covers it. With everything else remaining the same, I probably wouldn't be satisfied unless the princesses specifically told her never to do that again. 

On 11/9/2017 at 8:17 PM, Jeric said:

is that Starlight could have responded to the Princesses geniality with acknowledgement that she does need to work on her approach.

I literally never thought of this, but that works too. 

[Red Cedar 1,408]

Keep in mind, the fans who might not like Starlight's inclusion because she hasn't faced justice are often the same ones that would argue against the same justice being applied to Trixie just because they like her. And Trixie was a lot more malicious in some instances.

My take away from all this is that despite the existence of a magical super-max prison like Tartarus, Equestrian Justice is really, really weak.

[RulesofRarity 493]

On 11/12/2017 at 5:46 AM, Red Cedar said:

Keep in mind, the fans who might not like Starlight's inclusion because she hasn't faced justice are often the same ones that would argue against the same justice being applied to Trixie just because they like her. And Trixie was a lot more malicious in some instances.

My take away from all this is that despite the existence of a magical super-max prison like Tartarus, Equestrian Justice is really, really weak.

What exactly did Trixie do to deserve to be punished? Our protagonists acted like complete assholes towards her for no reason which resulted in her being mocked & being unable to do her job. I can totally understand her wanting revenge against Twilight and co. In addition, a lot of the bad stuff that Trixie did in the "Magic Duel" episode was because she was under the influence of the amulet. Starlight, in comparison, decided to mess with time completely under her own free will. Her stupidity could've resulted in Equestria being reduced to a barren wasteland(where I assume every pony either evacuated or died), to me that's far more "malicious" than anything Trixie did with or without the amulet.

Edited November 16, 2017 by RulesofRarity

[Red Cedar 1,408]

On 11/16/2017 at 9:36 AM, RulesofRarity said:

What exactly did Trixie do to deserve to be punished? Our protagonists acted like complete assholes towards her for no reason which resulted in her being mocked & being unable to do her job. I can totally understand her wanting revenge against Twilight and co. In addition, a lot of the bad stuff that Trixie did in the "Magic Duel" episode was because she was under the influence of the amulet. Starlight, in comparison, decided to mess with time completely under her own free will. Her stupidity could've resulted in Equestria being reduced to a barren wasteland(where I assume every pony either evacuated or died), to me that's far more "malicious" than anything Trixie did with or without the amulet.

I agree, Trixie did not deserve the treatment she received, even if she was an insufferable, arrogant egotist. But what did she do? Seek restitution through the courts against Snips and Snails (or their parents) for waking an Ursa Minor that subsequently destroyed her trailer? No! She went out and found a dark magic amulet, the very possession of which should have been illegal and landed both Trixie and the unscrupulous dealer in Tartarus, and then used it to enslave a town, whether that was her intention from the outset or not. There was definitely an issue of a disproportionate level of response here.

[Guest]

Would it have felt normal if, after Starlight submitted herself to punishment at the end of season 5, Twilight and the others decided to lock her in a dungeon? I don't care for Starlight as much as others, but the outcome made sense to me. I couldn't think of a more fitting punishment than forcing her to confront and deal with all of her bad decisions like they did through season 6. She had to return to her village and apologize, she had to patch things up with Sunburst and be subject to Twilight's lesson plans like a child for quite some time. I feel like if you put yourself in her shoes with her personality you'd feel nerve-wracked at the best of times. Starlight and her sins were laid bare for everypony to see, if she fell back into the character she was there wouldn't be cause for leniency anymore and I think she knows that. Besides, it's a much better life to live when people actually like you.