Canonicity of Star Dreams?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

So, a lot of g4 fans don't seem to consider anything other than the animated television show to be "canon", but in reality- the tv show has always served as a vehicle to promote the toyline, as the toyline came first throughout every generation. So with that said, how do fans view the canonicity of toyline exclusive ponies, such as Star Dreams (look how friggin adorable she is!) , or Princess Sterling and Gold Lily, Lullaby Moon, or Skyla?

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Nightmare Muffin

[MangoFoalix 25,010]

Most of these seem to be recolors of pre-existing characters just to sell toys. So no, I wouldn't call them canon.

[Ganondorf8 11,322]

Those characters in the spoiler tag are merely re-colours of established characters though is no surprise when it comes to MLP. They like to reuse assets of this nature when it comes to making background characters but this isn't always the case. To many fans, if these kind of characters didn't appear in the show or comics, they aren't considered canon. 

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

Wasn't Skyla sort of a Flurryheart prototype?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

58 minutes ago, TwilySparky said:

Most of these seem to be recolors of pre-existing characters just to sell toys. So no, I wouldn't call them canon.

same could be said for a lot of characters in the show.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

1 hour ago, Ganondorf8 said:

Those characters in the spoiler tag are merely re-colours of established characters though is no surprise when it comes to MLP. They like to reuse assets of this nature when it comes to making background characters but this isn't always the case. To many fans, if these kind of characters didn't appear in the show or comics, they aren't considered canon. 

I don't really think taking account whether it's a recolor or not should make them any less of a character or their own pony. Twilight Velvet is a recolor of Twilight Sparkle, for instance, and they're drastically different. I'm aware that g4 fans consider characters that aren't from the series canon- I mentioned it in the op. But with pecking order, and the toyline being first tier (as it was created first) and even providing some info on characters through backcards and flavor text on boxes, and the series existing FOR the toyline (because there's no way we would have the cartoon show without the toyline), shouldn't the toyline be the most important thing?

Edited October 20, 2018 by Nightmare Muffin

[Sunlight Glisten 368]

I do not accept them. Just because it's a dinosaur doesn't mean it is part of Jurassic park. The addition of 2 adult princesses throws off the established order of equestria. Discord acknowledged to tirek that there are only 4 princesses of equestria. 

[ManaMinori 4,145]

10 minutes ago, Sunlight Glisten said:

I do not accept them. Just because it's a dinosaur doesn't mean it is part of Jurassic park. The addition of 2 adult princesses throws off the established order of equestria. Discord acknowledged to tirek that there are only 4 princesses of equestria. 

they could be princesses outside of Equestria. It's only a small part of the world. (also, there are established and canon multiverses)

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

9 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

they could be princesses outside of Equestria. It's only a small part of the world. (also, there are established and canon multiverses)

And yet, on the rare times events have been held with invitations to many kingdoms beyond equestria, we still see no other alicorns.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Just now, BornAgainBrony said:

And yet, on the rare times events have been held with invitations to many kingdoms beyond equestria, we still see no other alicorns.

I can see your point. But even if they're not characters in the show, what I was getting at was that the toyline came first- it always has and always will. So even if the animated series says something is one way, isn't what came first supposed to rule it out?

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

7 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I can see your point. But even if they're not characters in the show, what I was getting at was that the toyline came first- it always has and always will. So even if the animated series says something is one way, isn't what came first supposed to rule it out?

It becomes a question of the development process, really. Enough things have been done with the show to introduce new lines of pony toys, but then it becomes a question of what came first in while brainstorming? E.G. may be an exception here, but we can at least say the Mane 6 were imagined as complete characters.

Generally-speaking, merchandising is the excuse for creating content to get people hooked, but saying that means it should take precedent is like saying it gets the final say because it makes the majority of the money in the household. But the merchandise wouldn't be a tenth of what it was without the show to support it. TV shows can survive without merchandise.

[Ganondorf8 11,322]

2 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I don't really think taking account whether it's a recolor or not should make them any less of a character or their own pony. Twilight Velvet is a recolor of Twilight Sparkle, for instance, and they're drastically different. I'm aware that g4 fans consider characters that aren't from the series canon- I mentioned it in the op. But with pecking order, and the toyline being first tier (as it was created first) and even providing some info on characters through backcards and flavor text on boxes, and the series existing FOR the toyline (because there's no way we would have the cartoon show without the toyline), shouldn't the toyline be the most important thing?

Hasbro's means to an end is to sell toys and nothing more. They probably don't really care about canonicity like we do because it doesn't help their bottom line. I know it sounds like I'm making them out to be heartless or something but it's a typical business trope to want to focus on money and not worry about anything else barring legal issues and the like. Also, a toy company uses a cartoon as a way to see which characters are the most profitable and release as much product based on them as possible.

[Steve Piranha 29,428]

9 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Wasn't Skyla sort of a Flurryheart prototype?

Everything points at that . I think that toy was released back in 2013, about 3 years before McFlurry appeared

[EpicEnergy 23,220]

I don't really view ponies in the toyline as canon.

[Splashee 28,565]

On 10/20/2018 at 3:37 AM, ManaMinori said:

So, a lot of g4 fans don't seem to consider anything other than the animated television show to be "canon", but in reality- the tv show has always served as a vehicle to promote the toyline, as the toyline came first throughout every generation. So with that said, how do fans view the canonicity of toyline exclusive ponies, such as Star Dreams (look how friggin adorable she is!) , or Princess Sterling and Gold Lily, Lullaby Moon, or Skyla?

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Never heard of them. Also, I think Hasbro didn't do a good job if they created characters for the show, but didn't include them!?

[CypherHoof 26,483]

I have complex feelings about this.

First, anything that is in the actual FiM cartoon (including specials and so forth) is core "show" canon.

But there is a bunch of extended-universe stuff - EqG, the comics and chapter books, the toyline - that could be canon provided it doesn't contradict anything in the show (and if it does, it could be from one of the alternate timelines that Starlight created)

That Cadance was originally a pegasus pony (for example) is part of this extended universe - it isn't mentioned in the show.

There is also the possibility that some new alicorns, even baby ones, are real but are in the timeline AFTER Twi becomes queen, or just the mane cast don't know about them.  Flurry Heart may not be an only child, Celestia or Luna may find a nice Stallion now their royal duties are not as demanding, or more ponies could "earn their wings".  Given we know somepony (probably Starswirl) gave the Royal Sisters theirs, it stands to reason they could hand out a few more.

Finally, fanart, OCs and fanfiction is fine, provided it doesn't contradict the core canon (but of course they can contradict each other, as each is its own canon universe based on FiM; in some cases, the FiM canon later contradicts what is in the fan creations, so you have to go with alternate timeline or something for them...