G4 to G5 Timespan Confirmed

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

1 hour ago, AlbaTross said:

Real life reasons are irrelevant.  If there are in-universe ways for Twi to end up like that, list some or abandon that line of reasoning.  

 

That’s a world with magic, so the reason could be literally magic related

1 hour ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Half-cutie marks,

Art direction, and it’s nothing exceedingly relevant

1 hour ago, AlbaTross said:

a sun and moon that don’t need to be manually manipulated,

Magic

1 hour ago, AlbaTross said:

a complete lack of familiar locations,

God knows how many years passed…

1 hour ago, AlbaTross said:

and the complete absence of any other creatures from FiM plus the presence of some that aren’t in FiM do explain why G5 is in an alternate universe though.

 

 

 

[AlbaTross 1,586]

2 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

That’s a world with magic, so the reason could be literally magic related

Art direction, and it’s nothing exceedingly relevant

Magic

God knows how many years passed…

 

 

"It's magic" has to be one of the biggest cop-outs in writing tropes, and something writers do when they don't want to actually come up with an explanation for something in a setting where magic exists.  Moreover, magic is a science in FiM, not something that just produces unmeasurable and unexplainable phenomena.  Maybe that's how it works in G5's universe, but not FiM's.

Art direction isn't an in-universe explanation, and cutie marks are certainly relevant, at least in FiM.  I guess they really aren't in G5, and only marginally more effort has been put into explaining them in G5 than has been put into explaining the link to G4, which has apparently also boiled down to a cutie mark being a reflection of something a pony is good at rather than being their destiny like it was previously.  Also, Posey was far less perturbed by having her cutie mark taken than the Mane Six in FiM were with theirs, and if there was any greying of Posey's mane and coat, it was far less significant.  Face it, there is clear evidence of physiological differences in G5 ponies in regards to their cutie marks.  There's clear evidence of physiological differences in pony bodies when it comes to the role magic plays in general, mind you, and cutie marks are a magic phenomenon, so it makes sense that cutie marks would reflect that difference, but that just goes to show that magic and physiology are just different in G5's Equestria.  

I suppose dragons and breezies are in G5, but they just aren't the same.  The proportions of breezies are different in G5.  I guess you could explain the short mane and tail as a case of modern breezies being keen on keeping those short for some reason, but the antennae are shorter too.  As for the dragons, they're clearly not even the same species as the ones in FiM.  

Oh, we know exactly what the timeline in G5 is: 

I call BS on that for a variety of reasons, not on this guy's analysis, but on Hasbro's storytelling.  BTW, this is literally the vid that this topic was started around, so to say you don't know how much time has passed means you haven't looked at the OP.  I'm flattered I have your undivided attention, but seriously bruh?  

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

8 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

"It's magic" has to be one of the biggest cop-outs in writing tropes, and something writers do when they don't want to actually come up with an explanation for something in a setting where magic exists. 

If Twilight got big horse by the end of FIM, most likely by magic as she was already an adult mare, it isn’t far fetched she shrunk back with magical means as well. It’s not exactly pulling a hat off their sleeve

11 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

"

Art direction isn't an in-universe explanation, and cutie marks are certainly relevant, at least in FiM. 

What’s not relevant it would be having their cutie marks on both sides. There’s no indication they work differently otherwise 

12 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

"  Also, Posey was far less perturbed by having her cutie mark taken than the Mane Six in FiM were with theirs, and if there was any greying of Posey's mane and coat, it was far less significant.  Face it, there is clear evidence of physiological differences in G5 ponies in regards to their cutie marks.  There's clear evidence of physiological differences in pony bodies when it comes to the role magic plays in general, mind you, and cutie marks are a magic phenomenon, so it makes sense that cutie marks would reflect that difference, but that just goes to show that magic and physiology are just different in G5's Equestria.  

A natural phenomenon consequences considering key aspects like taking place at least a century, modern technology, and no central government to start. 

[AlbaTross 1,586]

49 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

If Twilight got big horse by the end of FIM, most likely by magic as she was already an adult mare, it isn’t far fetched she shrunk back with magical means as well. It’s not exactly pulling a hat off their sleeve

What’s not relevant it would be having their cutie marks on both sides. There’s no indication they work differently otherwise 

A natural phenomenon consequences considering key aspects like taking place at least a century, modern technology, and no central government to start. 

Cadance was also an Alicorn that was made into one by Celestia.  She was a Pegasus prior to becoming one.  I've never seen a Pegasus with proportions like her, and she did not revert to being more normally proportioned when her magic was drained.  

Cutie marks on both sides are literally a part of pony physiology, so yes that is relevant.  Also, as I've mentioned, the way they work is different, as it is not tied to destiny anymore, and losing it now appears to be more mildly inconvenient than anything.  

A century or two doesn't change physiology.  Evolution takes thousands of years at least.  Modern technology doesn't have that kind of impact on physiology, unless you get to a point in time with cybernetic enhancements, or being able to replace bits of one's body with mechanical parts.  Governance or lack thereof is a separate topic entirely, as it has no bearing on physiology.  

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

Cadance was also an Alicorn that was made into one by Celestia.  She was a Pegasus prior to becoming one.  I've never seen a Pegasus with proportions like her, and she did not revert to being more normally proportioned when her magic was drained.  

 

What that has to do with Twilight returning to her more recognized appearance?

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Cutie marks on both sides are literally a part of pony physiology, so yes that is relevant. 

It remains irrelevant to have them on both sides. ‘Em horses still have their cutie marks. Again, a mere and minor art direction

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

A century or two doesn't change physiology.  Evolution takes thousands of years at least.  Modern technology doesn't have that kind of impact on physiology, unless you get to a point in time with cybernetic enhancements, or being able to replace bits of one's body with mechanical parts.  Governance or lack thereof is a separate topic entirely, as it has no bearing on physiology.  

Ok, that’s on me, I’ve misread that as “psychology”

7 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

I suppose dragons and breezies are in G5, but they just aren't the same.  The proportions of breezies are different in G5.  I guess you could explain the short mane and tail as a case of modern breezies being keen on keeping those short for some reason, but the antennae are shorter too.  

 

This is a new generation of MLP, not to mention in 3D, so of course they won’t look proportionally the same side by side. Regardless, those differences are insignificant, and they are clearly still Breezies. Besides, artistic changes have been made throughout history towards characters. Decades before alternate universes were popularized. We got Bowser and Yoshi from Super Mario Bros series. They both were hunched and had much shorter arms, but that no alt universe thing

7 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

"  As for the dragons, they're clearly not even the same species as the ones in FiM.  

 

In what ways? Other than the red and green dragons in S1, no dragons were alike in FIM, ever

[AlbaTross 1,586]

4 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

What that has to do with Twilight returning to her more recognized appearance?

It remains irrelevant to have them on both sides. ‘Em horses still have their cutie marks. Again, a mere and minor art direction

Ok, that’s on me, I’ve misread that as “psychology”

This is a new generation of MLP, not to mention in 3D, so of course they won’t look proportionally the same side by side. Regardless, those differences are insignificant, and they are clearly still Breezies. Besides, artistic changes have been made throughout history towards characters. Decades before alternate universes were popularized. We got Bowser and Yoshi from Super Mario Bros series. They both were hunched and had much shorter arms, but that no alt universe thing

In what ways? Other than the red and green dragons in S1, no dragons were alike in FIM, ever

Cadence is the closest example to Twilight physiologically.  “Recognition” is an out of universe explanation and has no bearing on storytelling.  Cadance should have turned into a more proportionally common pony when her magic was drained from her, but she didn’t.  There is no data to support your hypothesis.  On top of that, Twilight was visibly older looking even without being proportioned like Celestia.  She should have looked older in the holo transmission.

I think we should just agree to disagree over the significance of a clear physiological difference in cutie marks.  What’s your explanation for why Posey isn’t too put out by losing her’s?

Art styles in other series have no bearing on this one, especially if you’re going to cite early designs of things that were since abandoned, and in another medium entirely to boot.  Switching to 3D shouldn’t mean a breezy can’t have properly proportioned antennae.  As for the dragons, there are two common phenotypes in FiM, and all varieties of dragon fit within them.  G5’s dragons are unlike either. 

I think we’re at the point where we really ought to decide whether we want to keep going indefinitely, Steve.  I know you’re willing to die on the hill of FiM and G5 being in the same universe.  I’ve read your hot takes post and you actually do like that connection between the series. 

So, we can keep this going if you would like, but I say, like what you like.  Just let those of us who absolutely loathe that G5 is allegedly a continuation have our headcanons to the contrary, which I maintain are well-supported.  

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

8 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

Cadance should have turned into a more proportionally common pony when her magic was drained from her, but she didn’t.  

8 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 What’s your explanation for why Posey isn’t too put out by losing her’s?

 

Everyone reacts differently to threats. Some keep control, others panic, others pass out, others attack…

8 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 Switching to 3D shouldn’t mean a breezy can’t have properly proportioned antennae.  

It remains a very minor thing to use as evidence that’s an alt universe. G5 breezies are’t less breezies for something so minor. Otherwise that would mean MYM and TYT are alt universes

8 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

As for the dragons, there are two common phenotypes in FiM, and all varieties of dragon fit within them.  G5’s dragons are unlike either. 

 

We also had these in FIM

 

8 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

 I know you’re willing to die on the hill of FiM and G5 being in the same universe.  

 

No, because that’s a fact, not an opinion 

8 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 I’ve read your hot takes post and you actually do like that connection between the series. 

 

Yeah, I do. But it’s also a fact

8 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

 Just let those of us who absolutely loathe that G5 is allegedly a continuation have our headcanons to the contrary, which I maintain are well-supported.  

There’s a difference between having a headcanon, and making incorrect statements about official material 

8 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

So, we can keep this going if you would like, but I say, like what you like.  Just let those of us who absolutely loathe that G5 is allegedly a continuation have our headcanons to the contrary, which I maintain are well-supported.  

Different art direction doesn’t support well the alt universe narrative 

[AlbaTross 1,586]

59 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Everyone reacts differently to threats. Some keep control, others panic, others pass out, others attack…

It remains a very minor thing to use as evidence that’s an alt universe. G5 breezies are’t less breezies for something so minor. Otherwise that would mean MYM and TYT are alt universes

We also had these in FIM

 

 

No, because that’s a fact, not an opinion 

Yeah, I do. But it’s also a fact

There’s a difference between having a headcanon, and making incorrect statements about official material 

Different art direction doesn’t support well the alt universe narrative 

The examples of similarly proportioned ponies you used are Unicorns.  I do not recall seeing a single non-unicorn, Pegasus or otherwise, proportioned like Cadance.

Posey was not just threatened.  She literally had her cutie mark taken, which should have had a bigger reaction from her.  Also, it's worth pointing out that if she had a cutie mark on both sides, it wouldn't have been that easy to just take it from her.  

You're entitled to your opinions about Breezies, but evolution of that nature takes more than 200 years.

None of the dragons you showed look anything like the ones in G5.  

The differences I'm pointing out are beyond a simple change in art style.  If you were to just convert corresponding G4 characters to either MYM or TYT's art style, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't come out looking quite the way they do.  Maybe there is an AI that can do that for us to put this matter to rest.  

It's funny that you're saying that different art direction doesn't support my arguments when you've defaulted to that as a basis for a number of yours.  So, you openly admit that every argument you've based on art direction is null and void then?  Excellent.  

You're entitled to your opinions, but if you are going to claim yours are fact, and dissenting opinions are incorrect, then the onus is on you to establish that beyond a reasonable doubt, which you have failed to do.  Convincing yourself that something is true is not convincing me, or others like me who aren't in love with this trash writing.  You need better arguments, and evidence to back it up if you're going to do that, and I'm pretty sure the task you've taken upon yourself is beyond the capabilities of even the most seasoned debate veteran on the internet, but you're welcome to try.  All I needed to do is establish that an alternate universe is a plausible explanation, and I have, which only requires that there be some reason to doubt that G5's universe is exactly the same.  You have the much more difficult argument to make, so good luck to you sir.  I'll let you decide whether you really want to die on that hill, or if you would rather just let opinions be opinions.  

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

The examples of similarly proportioned ponies you used are Unicorns.  I do not recall seeing a single non-unicorn, Pegasus or otherwise, proportioned like Cadance.

 

Your point. Mine was that’s a possible natural body proportion for non-Alicorn horses

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Posey was not just threatened.  She literally had her cutie mark taken, which should have had a bigger reaction from her.  Also, it's worth pointing out that if she had a cutie mark on both sides, it wouldn't have been that easy to just take it from her.  

 

Starlight Glimmer only needed to take cutie marks from one side, and it disappeared on both sides of her victims. Again, mere art direction 

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

 

You're entitled to your opinions about Breezies, but evolution of that nature takes more than 200 years.

 

Nothing about evolution, it’s a mere art style

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

 

None of the dragons you showed look anything like the ones in G5.  

 

The point was they were different from the other most common types of dragons. Meaning dragons like those shown in G5 could be around during FIM’s time

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

 

The differences I'm pointing out are beyond a simple change in art style.  If you were to just convert corresponding G4 characters to either MYM or TYT's art style, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't come out looking quite the way they do.  Maybe there is an AI that can do that for us to put this matter to rest.  

 

They went to a different art style, not converting FIM’s to 3D

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

 

It's funny that you're saying that different art direction doesn't support my arguments

No, because a different art style doesn’t equal alt universe

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

 

You're entitled to your opinions, but if you are going to claim yours are fact, and dissenting opinions are incorrect, then the onus is on you to establish that beyond a reasonable doubt, which you have failed to do.  

I’m not claiming facts (which is making an unsupported statement), I’m stated facts (supported by the big magic hologram message of book horse)

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

  Convincing yourself that something is true is not convincing me, or others like me who aren't in love with this trash writing.  

It’s perfectly valid to separate FIM with G5, but that doesn’t take away that G5 is a sequel to FIM in an official manner 

55 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

  You need better arguments, and evidence to back it up if you're going to do that, 

I am afraid it’s the other way around. Your arguments are based merely on the art style, or design choices. I on the other hand got this

Spoiler

And that’s enough, I don’t need anything else, but alas, we also got this (so far)

Spoiler

 

56 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

All I needed to do is establish that an alternate universe is a plausible explanation, and I have, which only requires that there be some reason to doubt that G5's universe is exactly the same.  

Aesthetic changes due to a different art style isn’t an argument. The presence or absence of this and that is circumstantial at best

59 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

You have the much more difficult argument to make, so good luck to you sir.  

I got a big holo book horse in the room and two Alicorn fillies

1 hour ago, AlbaTross said:

or if you would rather just let opinions be opinions.  

Opinions are one thing; making incorrect statements based on circumstantial arguments at best, to far fetched hypotheses is another

[AlbaTross 1,586]

32 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Your point. Mine was that’s a possible natural body proportion for non-Alicorn horses

Starlight Glimmer only needed to take cutie marks from one side, and it disappeared on both sides of her victims. Again, mere art direction 

Nothing about evolution, it’s a mere art style

The point was they were different from the other most common types of dragons. Meaning dragons like those shown in G5 could be around during FIM’s time

They went to a different art style, not converting FIM’s to 3D

No, because a different art style doesn’t equal alt universe

I’m not claiming facts (which is making an unsupported statement), I’m stated facts (supported by the big magic hologram message of book horse)

It’s perfectly valid to separate FIM with G5, but that doesn’t take away that G5 is a sequel to FIM in an official manner 

I am afraid it’s the other way around. Your arguments are based merely on the art style, or design choices. I on the other hand got this

  Reveal hidden contents

And that’s enough, I don’t need anything else, but alas, we also got this (so far)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Aesthetic changes due to a different art style isn’t an argument. The presence or absence of this and that is circumstantial at best

I got a big holo book horse in the room and two Alicorn fillies

Opinions are one thing; making incorrect statements based on circumstantial arguments at best, to far fetched hypotheses is another

Thanks, I'll take the point on the Cadance/Alicorn matter.  

Oh, you're correct about Starlight taking the cutie mark.  It had been years since I saw that.  After rewatching that though, I noticed something different: it was significantly more strenuous and painful for Starlight to take Twilight's cutie mark, so thanks for bringing that to my attention, which is a physiological difference.  

You've already made the case that art direction shouldn't be used as an argument, so any points you made to that effect are null and void.  I'm saying AI could probably convert G4 characters to G5's art styles, which is more than just converting 2D to 3D.  

Terms like "could" have no place in an argument demonstrating a point beyond a reasonable doubt.  Also, notice how there's only one example of a dragon who's quadrupedal and articulate?  His proportions look more normal than the others too, so it's likely he's only quadrupedal due to his immense weight.  In fact, he does look like he could stand up if he wished, though it would probably be a terrible idea based on where he is sitting.  

Oh, you "stated" facts.  My bad.  You're reusing previously mentioned things that aren't as persuasive as you think too.  Nice!

As someone who practices death of the author/all hands involved when it comes to any form of media, I don't recognize any official, IRL reasoning for things.  If creators want to convey what they intend, they will do so with their works.  

Yeah, you got this, with these arguments that aren't based on art style or direction:

"Again, mere art direction"

"Nothing about evolution, it’s a mere art style"

"They went to a different art style, not converting FIM’s to 3D"

"No, because a different art style doesn’t equal alt universe"

Circumstantial evidence is fine for establishing space for headcanons.  If you wish to demonstrate their impossibility though, it will take far more than that.  I'm glad that "maybe Twilight reverted back to how she used to look", and "maybe it's magic" aren't far-fetched hypotheses.  

I'll take that W now if you're done.

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Oh, you're correct about Starlight taking the cutie mark.  It had been years since I saw that.  After rewatching that though, I noticed something different: it was significantly more strenuous and painful for Starlight to take Twilight's cutie mark, so thanks for bringing that to my attention, which is a physiological difference.  

 

Again, art direction. Yeah, it’s inconsistent, but it’s not like we always made fun of FIM’s inconsistencies to itself

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

You've already made the case that art direction shouldn't be used as an argument, so any points you made to that effect are null and void.  I'm saying AI could probably convert G4 characters to G5's art styles, which is more than just converting 2D to 3D.  

 

Again, G4 can be converted to G5 and vice versa, but matching it or not has nothing to do of they take place in the same universe. Plot does, and the big holographic horse pretty much conformed it

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Oh, you "stated" facts.  My bad.  You're reusing previously mentioned things that aren't as persuasive as you think too.  Nice!

The holographic message of a main character from FIM is not persuasive, it outright confirms it 

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

As someone who practices death of the author/all hands involved when it comes to any form of media, I don't recognize any official, IRL reasoning for things.  If creators want to convey what they intend, they will do so with their works.  

 

You are free to not recognize something if you like, but facts are facts

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Yeah, you got this, with these arguments that aren't based on art style or direction:

"

Which of your evidence isn’t based on art direction?

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Circumstantial evidence is fine for establishing space for headcanons. 

One thing is a personal headcanon, another is pretend it’s factual in the face of evidence to the contrary 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Steve Piranha

[AlbaTross 1,586]

That is not art direction.  Twilight clearly experienced a great deal more pain than Posey did, and it took longer to rip off her cutie mark.  Posey didn't give too much of a reaction at all.

Big holographic horse who doesn't even look the right age, appearance aside?  Right.  No, it doesn't outright confirm it.  Maybe it does in Hasbro's mind, but again, death of the creator.  

You're free to not recognize things I've stated too, but facts are facts, am I right? 

I just made an argument based around a matter that doesn't have anything to do with art direction.  I'll also add the absence of many species from FiM, the presence of others that aren't from FiM, the sun and moon working differently, Sparky having wings in spite of only being an infant, and the geography not even being remotely similar.  Having all record of past pony society be non-existent also doesn't work in a timeline that spans at most 200 years.  

"One thing is a personal headcanon, another is pretend it’s factual in the face of evidence to the contrary" So you're admitting to pretending things are factual based on evidence to the contrary?  Thanks for debunking your own arguments for me.  

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

2 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

That is not art direction.  Twilight clearly experienced a great deal more pain than Posey did, and it took longer to rip off her cutie mark.  Posey didn't give too much of a reaction at all.

 

Art direction, writing direction, etc. could very well be consistency error, something FIM has done several times to itself as well

2 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Big holographic horse who doesn't even look the right age, appearance aside?  Right.  No, it doesn't outright confirm it.  Maybe it does in Hasbro's mind, but again, death of the creator.  

 

Doesn’t look the right age how? This is from the same pony who clearly extended her lifespan? 
 

2 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

You're free to not recognize things I've stated too, but facts are facts, am I right? 

 

Exactly, facts are facts, no head canon or beliefs passing as facts

2 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

I'll also add the absence of many species from FiM, the presence of others that aren't from FiM, the sun and moon working differently, Sparky having wings in spite of only being an infant, and the geography not even being remotely similar.  Having all record of past pony society be non-existent also doesn't work in a timeline that spans at most 200 years.  

"

Made my case with the creatures. The new ones can be easily explained with magic even with a mere 200 year span since magical creatures are literally fused with magic (not to mention Twilight’s time could actually be longer as implied in TYT 24. Dragons could be a different race, geography is hardly shown, and records make sense as it could have been much longer than 200 years

2 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

"One thing is a personal headcanon, another is pretend it’s factual in the face of evidence to the contrary" So you're admitting to pretending things are factual based on evidence to the contrary?  Thanks for debunking your own arguments for me.  

Holo Twilight and two alicorn fillies  say otherwise 

[Landi 600]

If this really is the case and that little time passed between these two generations, that is really sad. Not only does this upend the accomplishments of the mane six, it makes Twilight out to be an awful leader. Celestia kept Equestria together for over a thousand years, and Twilight supposedly just comes around and ruins all of that. If this really is G5's explanation, than that is poor writing that just disrespects FiM's legacy. 

All that being said, I'm not sure how reliable this one line is. Firstly, Elderflower is shown to be a bit kooky. I'm not saying that there aren't things she said that could be used for analysis, but I wouldn't take everything she said too seriously. Secondly, G5 as a whole has been very inconsistent with many things, including the elapsed time between the two generations. This incredibly sloppy writing has made it hard to take anything from this generation seriously. 

This leads me to the third thing I want to bring up, and that is whether or not this generation really is a sequel to G4. I think that Hasbro intends on this being a direct sequel to FiM, however, G5's aforementioned sloppy writing has made it easy to see this as an alternate universe. There are plenty of similarities, sure, but there is also a plethora differences separating the worlds of these generations. Its easy for me to just look at G5 as the future to a slightly altered version of FiM where things didn't pan out well. Not only does this explain the differences between the two generations, but it keeps FiM's legacy from being ruined. I feel like at this point its just up to the individual to decide for themselves whether or not G5 is  actually a sequel to G4.

[AlbaTross 1,586]

38 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Art direction, writing direction, etc. could very well be consistency error, something FIM has done several times to itself as well

Doesn’t look the right age how? This is from the same pony who clearly extended her lifespan? 
 

Exactly, facts are facts, no head canon or beliefs passing as facts

Made my case with the creatures. The new ones can be easily explained with magic even with a mere 200 year span since magical creatures are literally fused with magic (not to mention Twilight’s time could actually be longer as implied in TYT 24. Dragons could be a different race, geography is hardly shown, and records make sense as it could have been much longer than 200 years

Holo Twilight and two alicorn fillies  say otherwise 

FiM has consistency errors, but G5 is simply inconsistent with FiM in general.  

Twilight clearly looks older at the end of FiM, and it's not just a proportion thing.  There is no easy explanation for why she would revert to looking younger again.  Alicorn status allowing a pony to stay the same age physiologically for much longer is one thing, but I haven't heard of any pony, Alicorn or otherwise, who has reversed aging they've already undergone.  

Then acknowledge the facts I've listed bruh.  As I've said, you've convinced yourself that G5 is a direct sequel to FiM and that's great, but you can't claim anything as facts until you convince other people.

The guy in the video analyzed how long ago events would have to have taken place for Moondancer to be mentioned as the great, great whatever to that elder pony, and 200 years was the absolute maximum he came up with, with all evidence pointing to it being less time than that.  As for magic explaining the various creatures, from talking rabbits to dogs with wings, it's worth pointing out that magic was removed from Equestria.  For these creatures to exist, they would have had to have existed before magic was removed, as that would have been the time when they could have been changed by magic through some kind of rapid evolution.

You're still on the whole Twilight and Celestia and Luna thing, huh?  You really need to stop beating a dead horse, pun intended.  It's not as persuasive as you think it is, and it is not "fact" until the community generally accepts it as such.  Good luck convincing all of us.

19 minutes ago, Landi said:

I feel like at this point its just up to the individual to decide for themselves whether or not G5 is  actually a sequel to G4.

Agreed.  

Actually, not only do we know that the decision to link G4 and G5 came after the story and concept for G5 was ironed out, but it's just apparent from the way G5 is written.  Many things that don't make sense, would absolutely make sense if it was just set in its own world, with its own rules, and its own elements.  It could still have used the name "Equestria", but a number of things would not be contradictions or plot holes, because there would be nothing to link them to.  Having the pony races separate could still have been a thing, just in the context of G5's world.  The whole thing was clearly a last minute thing that Hasbro decided because they didn't think G5 was marketable enough on its own, but now a lot of things don't make sense that otherwise would have, and I think it has done more harm to G5 than good.   Actually, I really can't think of any good whatsoever it has done for G5.

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

FiM has consistency errors, but G5 is simply inconsistent with FiM in general.  

 

Can’t be inconsistent considering with the many unknowns that happened between generations 

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Twilight clearly looks older at the end of FiM, and it's not just a proportion thing.  

 

Not necessarily, as the only comparison we can make is Celestia

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Then acknowledge the facts I've listed bruh.  As I've said, you've convinced yourself that G5 is a direct sequel to FiM and that's great, but you can't claim anything as facts until you convince other people.

 

Many people were convinced that the Earth was flat. That doesn’t mean our plane would suddenly become flat

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

The guy in the video analyzed how long ago events would have to have taken place for Moondancer to be mentioned as the great, great whatever to that elder pony, and 200 years was the absolute maximum he came up with, with all evidence pointing to it being less time than that.  As for magic explaining the various creatures, from talking rabbits to dogs with wings, it's worth pointing out that magic was removed from Equestria.  For these creatures to exist, they would have had to have existed before magic was removed, as that would have been the time when they could have been changed by magic through some kind of rapid evolution.

 

Again, many unknowns. Considering Zephyr Heights had relations with Maretime Bay before they’ve separated supports the theory 

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

 

 

You're still on the whole Twilight and Celestia and Luna thing, huh?  You really need to stop beating a dead horse, pun intended.  It's not as persuasive as you think it is, and it is not "fact" until the community generally accepts it as such.  Good luck convincing all of us.

 

That would make it a belief, not a fact. Most people believe chimps are less dangerous than gorillas, but facts are facts

6 hours ago, Landi said:

If this really is the case and that little time passed between these two generations, that is really sad. Not only does this upend the accomplishments of the mane six, it makes Twilight out to be an awful leader. Celestia kept Equestria together for over a thousand years, and Twilight supposedly just comes around and ruins all of that. If this really is G5's explanation, than that is poor writing that just disrespects FiM's legacy. 

All that being said, I'm not sure how reliable this one line is. Firstly, Elderflower is shown to be a bit kooky. I'm not saying that there aren't things she said that could be used for analysis, but I wouldn't take everything she said too seriously. Secondly, G5 as a whole has been very inconsistent with many things, including the elapsed time between the two generations. This incredibly sloppy writing has made it hard to take anything from this generation seriously. 

 

There’s one lining of hope about that theory with Elder Flower: there’s a trope of “Writers can’t do math”… pretty self explanatory (unless they did so intentionally to add on Elder Flower’s already established degree of unreliability).
 

But the most definite evidences of more time passing between FIM, and G5, would be the old Zephyr Heights station where a tourist ad for Maretime Bay was shown, evidencing the ponies still being together with G5 towns founded already; AND TYT’s episode 24 that I’ve just remembered. That one with the blanket with Argyle’s video. He himself said that blanket was made ten generations ago. Not only the number of generations is higher than what can be counted with Elder Flower’s anecdote, but it points out at the making of the blanket specifically. Implying that Equestria was still prosperous under book horse for a still indefinite, but even longer time than 2 mere centuries 

 

 

[AlbaTross 1,586]

2 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Can’t be inconsistent considering with the many unknowns that happened between generations 

Not necessarily, as the only comparison we can make is Celestia

Many people were convinced that the Earth was flat. That doesn’t mean our plane would suddenly become flat

Again, many unknowns. Considering Zephyr Heights had relations with Maretime Bay before they’ve separated supports the theory 

That would make it a belief, not a fact. Most people believe chimps are less dangerous than gorillas, but facts are facts

There’s one lining of hope about that theory with Elder Flower: there’s a trope of “Writers can’t do math”… pretty self explanatory (unless they did so intentionally to add on Elder Flower’s already established degree of unreliability).
 

But the most definite evidences of more time passing between FIM, and G5, would be the old Zephyr Heights station where a tourist ad for Maretime Bay was shown, evidencing the ponies still being together with G5 towns founded already; AND TYT’s episode 24 that I’ve just remembered. That one with the blanket with Argyle’s video. He himself said that blanket was made ten generations ago. Not only the number of generations is higher than what can be counted with Elder Flower’s anecdote, but it points out at the making of the blanket specifically. Implying that Equestria was still prosperous under book horse for a still indefinite, but even longer time than 2 mere centuries 

 

 

As there are many unknowns, you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the two universes are linked.  Check mate.

Look at Twilight's face.  She literally looks more mature.  Holo Twi looks much younger.

You're in the realm of subjective, not the realm of objective.  You're trying to prove your theory about cartoon horses is correct.  If you can show evidence that's akin to real world facts I'd like to see it, but as it stands, your supporting evidence is inductive, not empirical.

The three cities existed in the time of Twilight and the Mane Six then, so there were dogs with wings among other things by the end of FiM?  BS.

You are the one trying to establish a belief as a fact.  If you wish to be successful, you need to make it so clear that there is no room for doubt that even people who dislike the connection between series will have to grudgingly accept it, as there would be no room for them to argue otherwise.  I do not see this happening, so good luck.  

Ah, Elder Flower is the pony's name, right.  I have a hard time remembering the names of random NPCs in G5.  So you openly admit that Hasbro's storytelling is inconsistent.  Good luck proving anything beyond a reasonable doubt when they can't even keep their lore straight.  I'm pretty sure Hasbro would stand by the timeline being 200 years or less if they were interviewed, because they really don't care about good storytelling as long as they can sell toys.  Also, if G4 really is ancient enough history to G5, there's absolutely no way Elder Flower would know she's a descendant of Moondancer, as that would require there to be much more record of past history than ponies have kept in this series.  

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

11 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

As there are many unknowns, you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the two universes are linked.  Check mate.

 

Twilight Sparkle, Celestia and Luna say otherwise. The unknowns was about the undisclosed amount of time between the end of FIM to G5, which could be quite a long time

11 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Look at Twilight's face.  She literally looks more mature.  Holo Twi looks much younger.

 

Again, mere art direction, which could be easily be handwaved by stating Twilight recorded it when she was still young, or as an alicorn remained young by then

11 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

You're in the realm of subjective, not the realm of objective.  You're trying to prove your theory about cartoon horses is correct.  If you can show evidence that's akin to real world facts I'd like to see it, but as it stands, your supporting evidence is inductive, not empirical.

 

Having three characters from the previous show is much closer to being empirical than the changes of artstyle or the presence or a sense of this or that creature. Specially if we consider that Equestria takes and undisclosed, but clearly a very long time

11 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

The three cities existed in the time of Twilight and the Mane Six then, so there were dogs with wings among other things by the end of FiM?  BS.

 

Only Twilight, not the rest of the Mane 6

11 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

You are the one trying to establish a belief as a fact.  If you wish to be successful, you need to make it so clear that there is no room for doubt that even people who dislike the connection between series will have to grudgingly accept it, as there would be no room for them to argue otherwise.  I do not see this happening, so good luck.  

 

We all hate most straight to video Disney sequels, for good reason. We ignore them, so does Disney; but I won’t change the fact that they are sequels, interquels, or prequels as each case may be

11 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

 

Ah, Elder Flower is the pony's name, right.  I have a hard time remembering the names of random NPCs in G5.  So you openly admit that Hasbro's storytelling is inconsistent.  Good luck proving anything beyond a reasonable doubt when they can't even keep their lore straight.  I'm pretty sure Hasbro would stand by the timeline being 200 years or less if they were interviewed, because they really don't care about good storytelling as long as they can sell toys.  Also, if G4 really is ancient enough history to G5, there's absolutely no way Elder Flower would know she's a descendant of Moondancer, as that would require there to be much more record of past history than ponies have kept in this series.  

It could be inconsistent, something FIM has been guilty off, but it remains natural as it’s an anecdote 

[Sophie 1,537]

Let's remember to be kind and considerate in our conversations. Let's embrace open dialogue, respecting each other's perspectives. Together, we can foster understanding and find common ground. 🌟 #SpreadKindness"

[Evil Pink One 13,512]

I'm telling ya this is an alternate world of Starlight Glimmer. This is one of the strongest theories that can fix this whole mess. Or another dimension.... which makes equestria girl real.

[Evil Pink One 13,512]

1 hour ago, Sophie H. said:

Let's remember to be kind and considerate in our conversations. Let's embrace open dialogue, respecting each other's perspectives. Together, we can foster understanding and find common ground. 🌟 #SpreadKindness"

This is kinda hard...  not impossible mind you... but hard none the less 😆

These 2 @Steve Piranha @AlbaTross

Are from the derp legion. Neither will step down.

They will fight to the death. As stated by the troll and derp law.

Edited October 14, 2023 by StrawberryMilk Simp

[AlbaTross 1,586]

3 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Twilight Sparkle, Celestia and Luna say otherwise. The unknowns was about the undisclosed amount of time between the end of FIM to G5, which could be quite a long time

Again, mere art direction, which could be easily be handwaved by stating Twilight recorded it when she was still young, or as an alicorn remained young by then

Having three characters from the previous show is much closer to being empirical than the changes of artstyle or the presence or a sense of this or that creature. Specially if we consider that Equestria takes and undisclosed, but clearly a very long time

Only Twilight, not the rest of the Mane 6

We all hate most straight to video Disney sequels, for good reason. We ignore them, so does Disney; but I won’t change the fact that they are sequels, interquels, or prequels as each case may be

It could be inconsistent, something FIM has been guilty off, but it remains natural as it’s an anecdote 

Twilight, Celestia and Luna could easily be alternate versions of the characters we know.  What proof is there beyond reasonable doubt that they aren't?

Twilight recorded what she did when she was still young, huh?  Actually yeah, that's what I think.  I think the events that led to G5 happened sometime before she aged up, which would make G5's universe an offshoot one, albeit one that played out similarly until the events of S9.  

Having three characters in a franchise that has previously pushed the notion of alternate timelines, as well as alternate universes with sometimes larger, but sometimes more minute differences does not prove much other than that G5 belongs in the family of G4 timelines.  If you wish to establish that it is in the exact same timeline though...well, I don't think that's possible, but I respect your tenacity in trying.

Only pre-Celestia-style Twilight, yes.  

You are right that Disney sequels aren't nearly as well respected as their originals.  Disney films do not typically show split timelines and multiple dimensions in their stories though.  

Elder Flower can ramble all she wants, but the name Moondancer obviously exists in the historical record, which means that there are historical records, which means ponies did not lose almost all record of their previous history, which means they haven't lost all of the knowledge of the past, and should therefore not be nearly as ignorant of it all as we are led to believe.  

3 hours ago, Sophie H. said:

Let's remember to be kind and considerate in our conversations. Let's embrace open dialogue, respecting each other's perspectives. Together, we can foster understanding and find common ground. 🌟 #SpreadKindness"

Hi, apologies if we have caused any concern.  I have not personally attacked Steve, nor do I recall a point in time when he's attacked me.  We have focused our entire back and forth on arguments.  However, I can see that we appear to be getting heated.  One thing that is apparent is we both have a passion for MLP, and we are both fond of the last couple of gens to varying extents, as people who don't care about things do not expend the time and effort we have in our conversation, and I for one actually respect Steve, and respect his position even if I don't agree with it.  I personally see back and forths like this as more of a game, and an enjoyable one at that, but of course we both want to win, even when it seems likely that it will be a cat's game.  I tend to abruptly end conversations I despise, especially if the person irritates me.  I usually give a short, testy response or two to such people then ghost them after that.  I have not done any such thing with Steve, because at the end of the day, I respect him, and I'm having a good time, even if I show it in a way that might be construed as unusual.  

 

1 hour ago, StrawberryMilk Simp said:

This is kinda hard...  not impossible mind you... but hard none the less 😆

These 2 @Steve Piranha @AlbaTross

Are from the derp legion. Neither will step down.

They will fight to the death. As stated by the troll and derp law.

Right you are.  To the death in a much less literal sense, mind you, but yes.

Still, @Sophie H. I am willing to stop if it really is upsetting people.  I'll die on a hill if it's just me and Steve going back and forth, but the last thing I want is anyone else getting caught in our warzone.  

[Evil Pink One 13,512]

Whats weird is the villain is the same age as luna and tia....

Why is she smol? Smol alicorn. Ehhkkk

You know what time line where alicorn is smol? Pony life ehhhhkkkk.... actually i kinda liked pony life.... very weird show.

Id rather follow the comics.

The comics has proper ish time line... plus if they put back cozy glow on gen 5.... then i know its the real deal..... 

[AlbaTross 1,586]

16 minutes ago, StrawberryMilk Simp said:

Whats weird is the villain is the same age as luna and tia....

Why is she smol? Smol alicorn. Ehhkkk

You know what time line where alicorn is smol? Pony life ehhhhkkkk.... actually i kinda liked pony life.... very weird show.

Id rather follow the comics.

The comics has proper ish time line... plus if they put back cozy glow on gen 5.... then i know its the real deal..... 

Perhaps I need to give the G5 comics a try sometime.  In spite of loving how they expanded the lore and storyline of FiM and EQG, I have yet to bother with them, largely because it has taken me some time to warm up to G5 in general (due in no small part to incompetent writing and baffling behind the scenes decisions), but also because they apparently double-down on the link between series, which has to be my most despised aspect of G5.  However, they seem to be very well received by people who read them, even taking into account that the reception of G5 in general seems to differ from my experience up until recently.  Also, based on things I've heard and screenshots I've seen, the headcanon I'm nursing involving Discord becoming Grogar to prepare the Mane Six and prevent the events that would have lead to G5 could probably benefit greatly from me being more familiar with the storylines in the comics.  

[Evil Pink One 13,512]

I suggest ya reqd gen4 comics first