gaming West vs East: Sexism and Hypocrisy

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

Mature discussion Ahead

 

 

Eastern vs Western. It’s a common discussion amongst video-games these days. A lot of gamers do not like the Eastern market of video-games as much as they tend to stick to a specific art style, direction, and way of story-telling that Western style games do not. A prime example of this would be how each culture dictates their RPGs. Japanese RPGs are typically turn based games with an anime-style influence (there are exceptions, of course) that have a cliché cast of characters such as the aggressive tom-boy, the pretty boy, the silly hyper girl, and some character who is usually flirty – either male of female. The common complaint is that the men are very feminine looking and the girls are sometimes too silly and can be annoying. Not to mention the whole “Emo-Hair/Personality” critique.

 

Western  RPGs on the other hand are usually a lot more action based. They prefer having vast explorable worlds with tons of nifty weapons to customize your character along with skill-trees and large-scale boss battles. In these games the males are usually depicted as massive, beefy battle tanks while the women are scantily clad amazons who somehow get more defense boosts by wearing chainmail bikinis than full fledged armor. These games focus a lot on player choice to dictate how the game goes.

 

To each their own. I, honestly, enjoy both Western and Eastern games. Japanese games tend to give me that quirkiness, craziness that I love so much while Western  games provide me with a feeling of being some kind of hard-core badass. It’s a win win.

 

However, there has been something that I noticed when it comes to these two specific styles of game development and that is how Critics and Journalists treat these games. It has become more and more apparent that these critics have been judging the Japanese games a little harsher than the Eastern counterparts – especially when it comes to sex.

 

Allow me to explain. Earlier this month Suda 51 released his newest game, Killer Is Dead – a psychedelic action game where the main character has the chance to upgrade his cyborg arm by sleeping with women he picks up at a bar. To sleep with these women, he must sneak glances at their cleavage, crotch, and legs. If the character has a special pair of sunglasses, he can actually see their underwear and figure out their likes and dislikes in the hopes of picking them up.

 

 

Now this little side-game (optional, by the way), has garnered a crazy ton amount of controversy in the reviewing community. Many critics have declared the game sexist, obscene, and disgusting because of this optional side-question. Some have gone so far as to calling the entire CULTURE sexist.

 

However, I have recently noticed that some of these same reviewers and gaming websites have never really found issue with games such as Grand Theft Auto 5, God of War, Mass Effect (although FOX news sure made a huge stink about it), or Saints Row for their portrayal of women.

Here is a quote from one Videogamer.com

 

Beyond the incredibly uncomfortable nature of what you're being asked to do - which is objectify a simpering, submissive woman, look at her V for as long as you can get away with for, sigh, points, before giving her cash for sex... actually, there isn't a lot beyond that, is there? It's total shite. Oh, and she's called a 'target' on the pre-mission screen.

 

I would like to point out there is no nudity. You aren't staring directly into a woman's privates, only her crotch.

 

Here’s the problem I see. In Killer is Dead, you never see the women naked. Only stripped to their underwear. The game cuts out before any sex really starts also so you don’t see anything. However, GTA5 and God of War shows full frontal nudity, involves sex mini games with these women, and even lets you murder the prostitutes after you bang them. Hell, if you google GTA5 stripper, there are entire tutorials on how to have sex with girls, get oral sex, and so on.

 

ME has sex that reveals a bit more nudity that Killer is Dead while Saints Row has you rescuing whole boat-loads of whores and strippers for the sole purpose of pimping them.

 

Let's take a quote from one article about KILLER IS DEAD.

 

Why would going on dates with women result in them giving Mondo an upgrade for his cybernetic arm? They wouldn’t. There is absolutely no reason for these missions to exist other than to titillate, inflame and underline just how out-of-step some developers can be when the issue of gender is at hand. It’s both counter-productive and counter-progressive at the same time.

 

Okay, so there is a point to be made but really what's the problem? The same exact thing happens in God of War where you can have sex with women near the start of every level and that a lot of the female character are completely topless. Why is having sex with three women at one (who show frontal nudity and have you actually mash buttons to have sex with them) okay but not this?

Hell, I can go as far as bringing up the whole “Metroid Other M is sexist” just because Samus takes orders from a superior officer *Gasp* when no one seems to care if a Western  female protagonist needs to take orders from a guy.

 

So, what’s the problem here? Why is it okay to show full frontal nudity in Western  games but if a Japanese game shows a woman in undies or in a cheerleader outfit, it is not okay? I have to wonder what really the difference here is.

 

Could it be due to Japan’s history of sexual dating simulators that automatically puts a bad taste in people’s mouths when they see something remotely sexual in a Japanese video game? Or is it something else?

 

Could the overall game be the cause for this? Meaning that if the game is mediocre (as many reviewers claim for Suda 51’s games – as an example), it is more likely to get the sexist label slapped onto it. It is much easier to get away with criticizing a so-so game than the AAA title of the month, right? I am assuming no website wants to be “That Guy” and bring up how lewd a game like GTA5 can be (and is).

 

Are “Great” games that come from big-budgeted studios and pay massive amounts of dollars for advertising immune to this claim by the gaming reviewing community? Thus meaning these lower-budget, niche, smaller titles are an easier target? IE “Don’t pick on the popular jock! Let’s target that geeky foreign kid instead!?”

 

Or is truly because Japanese-made games are truly more demeaning towards women despite the full fledge nudity and sex games in some of the more popular AAA titles?

 

Tell me your thoughts  and let’s have a good ol’ discussion!
 

[Scootalove 10,689]

I don't think that Japanese made games are too demeaning at all. They just show the nudity to make the women look attractive, I could say that Grand Theft Auto shows more nudity in their games than Japanese games do. It's just my opinion.

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

I don't think that Japanese made games are too demeaning at all. They just show the nudity to make the women look attractive, I could say that Grand Theft Auto shows more nudity in their games than Japanese games do. It's just my opinion.

 

 

I completely agree. I mean, we have games like Lesuire Suit Larry, BMX XXX (Which shows actual cut scenes of real strippers dancing), GTA which has full on nudity, strip clubs, etc...

 

A lot of these "perverted" Japanese games that get localized don't really show nudity. I remember the flak Lollipop Chainsaw got because its a "Big breasted, ditzy cheerleader" and some forums were basically ragging on it as a Japanese man's perverse fetish.

 

What the heck

[a Pegasus Pony 134]

Put it this way. Have yo ever been to Japan and seen what they have there? If you did then you would agree it is a little perverted there however not all americans know about what goes on in games I.e. Parents, Elders, Catholics (Jk) So it is not our fault but the elders themselves. Besides if it comes from home then it is fine to us.

[Passion 3,484]

I cannot resist posting that:

 

 

 

 

Simple truth: Different culture, different approach to everything. It obviously doesn't only concern Japan. But it's always easier and more economical to bash someone else's product rather than your own. Why damage your own country's economy?

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

Put it this way. Have yo ever been to Japan and seen what they have there? If you did then you would agree it is a little perverted there however not all americans know about what goes on in games I.e. Parents, Elders, Catholics (Jk) So it is not our fault but the elders themselves. Besides if it comes from home then it is fine to us.

 

Oh, I know Japan has a crazy sexual side to it. It's all over the internet but the fact remains that in terms of the games - Japanese ones get mad crictism over sexuality when they game DOESN'T show nudity or sex (Killer is Dead or Dragon's Crown) but have just skimpy outfits but no one seems to care when a game like GTA5 has full fledge strip shows where you can bang the girls you meet there

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

Put it this way. Have yo ever been to Japan and seen what they have there? If you did then you would agree it is a little perverted there however not all americans know about what goes on in games I.e. Parents, Elders, Catholics (Jk) So it is not our fault but the elders themselves. Besides if it comes from home then it is fine to us.

It's worth noting that many of things we mock Japan for came from here in the US in the first place. Many of the fetishes we mock them for were introduced to them by the west(or influenced by it). Sexualizing under garments, for example.

 

In the end it comes down to it the west having this very weird love-hate relationship with sexual content where we somehow simultaneously enjoy it while also finding it taboo.  

[a Pegasus Pony 134]

Oh, I know Japan has a crazy sexual side to it. It's all over the internet but the fact remains that in terms of the games - Japanese ones get mad crictism over sexuality when they game DOESN'T show nudity or sex (Killer is Dead or Dragon's Crown) but have just skimpy outfits but no one seems to care when a game like GTA5 has full fledge strip shows where you can bang the girls you meet there

Because some kids might wanna follow the dress style in the fame. You must think about it like society does and for simple reasons the game gets more Cit.

 

 

ALSO The US is East in reality while Japan/China/Russia/Other countries I don't wanna name is west. Technically I'm right.

Edited September 28, 2013 by a Pegasus Pony

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

Because some kids might wanna follow the dress style in the fame. You must think about it like society does and for simple reasons the game gets more Cit.

 

So...it's worse to show scantily clad women that you either play (Dragon's Crown) as or try to hit on (Killer is Dead)...and no nudity, than having kids (and kids do play this) objectify strippers in grand theft auto with full fledge nudity and lots of sex both oral and regular?

[a Pegasus Pony 134]

So...it's worse to show scantily clad women that you either play (Dragon's Crown) as or try to hit on (Killer is Dead)...and no nudity, than having kids (and kids do play this) objectify strippers in grand theft auto with full fledge nudity and lots of sex both oral and regular?

Yes because kids won't go walking around naked like that are have the audacity to do something of that nature most of the time while dressing is much easier to do and get away with.

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

(I know the US is East but apparently that is not how the gaming community sees it >.< it's maddening)

 

So it's...okay to have boys objectify women in games, get their jollies off having sex with them throwing money at them, orgies with them (god of war)...but NOT okay to have a woman dress scantily as you hit on them for a sex scene that isn't shown at all?

 

(not to mention the ratio of female kids playing these kind of Japanese games are much smaller than male boys playing games like god of war and GTA)

[a Pegasus Pony 134]

How about this. Not matter what or input is on this there will never be a winner on either side as it is only a deteive question.

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

The fact still remains that critics are harsher on Japense games for showing brief things as mentioned in the examples as opposed to the AAA titles that come out in the US market that show and have you do much worse

[The Prime Reaper 180]

The reason why Japanese video game industry lost to the war against Western video game industry because of uninnovation during 20th century. Final Fantasy is one of the few handful survived japanese games that actually succeeded but the series is too overmilked as well as many countless Japanese series. If you talking about greediness, Asians are among the greediest because they often focusing on the outcome of things rather than progress of things (outcome is money). Asians as well as Japanese are straight-foward people, they don't always goof around like the Westerners. 

Now getting straight to the point, Japanese people are very hidden and they hate nudity. That is why girlish clothes are so closed even the Japanese wants to hide their legs. Japanese people aren't sexist but they are very serious people. 

Thanks for Allied Occupation of Japan after World War II, the Japanese culture dramatically transformed through adapting the great diversity of American culture. That why Japanese sexual simulative games as well as Hentai are so insanely becoming popular days by days. Many Japanese people started to fragmenting the fabric of Japanese culture in order to combine both Japanese culture and Western culture at the same time, while Japanese elders are trying to preserve the ancient culture and stop the Western aggression.

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

The reason why Japanese video game industry lost to the war against Western video game industry because of uninnovation during 20th century. Final Fantasy is one of the few handful survived japanese games that actually succeeded but the series is too overmilked as well as many countless Japanese series. If you talking about greediness, Asians are among the greediest because they often focusing on the outcome of things rather than progress of things (outcome is money). Asians as well as Japanese are straight-foward people, they don't always goof around like the Westerners. 

Now getting straight to the point, Japanese people are very hidden and they hate nudity. That is why girlish clothes are so closed even the Japanese wants to hide their legs. Japanese people aren't sexist but they are very serious people. 

Thanks for Allied Occupation of Japan after World War II, the Japanese culture dramatically transformed through adapting the great diversity of American culture. That why Japanese sexual simulative games as well as Hentai are so insanely becoming popular days by days. Many Japanese people started to fragmenting the fabric of Japanese culture in order to combine both Japanese culture and Western culture at the same time, while Japanese elders are trying to preserve the ancient culture and stop the Western aggression.

 

 

Alright this is all fine and dandy and very informative, but it has nothing to do with the actual topic which is why US critics and reviewers trash Japanese games for "perverse" nature but praise Us games that go even further sexually.

[The Prime Reaper 180]

Alright this is all fine and dandy and very informative, but it has nothing to do with the actual topic which is why US critics and reviewers trash Japanese games for "perverse" nature but praise Us games that go even further sexually.

Beside Western video games corporations successfully eliminated the Japanese competitors in 20th century so that why these corporations want to eliminate competitions in order to keep the Western superiority in video games.

Because of the freedom in their pizza.

 

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

...I am not sure I quite understand exactly what you are meaning in that statement. You are saying western reviewers want to remove japanese games from the market so they give them worse reviews?

[The Prime Reaper 180]

...I am not sure I quite understand exactly what you are meaning in that statement. You are saying western reviewers want to remove japanese games from the market so they give them worse reviews?

 

Western corporations want to eliminate competitions like playing monopoly.

They can't remove japanese games but can only bribe the reviewers to make Japanese games have bad faces so Westerners can make more money, money, money, money, money,....

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

...Then if that is the case, why do a lot of Japanese games still get massively great reviews such as the Nintendo series, some of Capcom's games, etc.

[Megas 27,742]

I always thought Destructoid was the only review site who gave Killer Is Dead a fair review.

 

Critics need to start taking note/realize that Eastern developers are not the same as them, they're a completely different culture and they see things much differently than us westerners. It's completely unfair and insulting to eastern developers when they slam a game for certain questionable content, which is most likely the norm for their culture(the recent Dragon's Crown, Quiet in MGSV, and many Suda games in general) and then go around and load western games(GoW, GTA, for popular examples) with the same, if not even more offensive, content only to ignore it completely

[The Prime Reaper 180]

...Then if that is the case, why do a lot of Japanese games still get massively great reviews such as the Nintendo series, some of Capcom's games, etc.

 

The japanese companies you named are among the wealthiest video games corporation, Nintendo is the wealthiest and they have managed to survive the japanses video games crisis of 20th century.

Nintendo has large wealth to advertise their games, but when talking about the art of marketing EA is the best although they are greedy and evil.

[Megas 27,742]

The japanese companies you named are among the wealthiest video games corporation, Nintendo is the wealthiest and they have managed to survive the japanses video games crisis of 20th century.

Nintendo has large wealth to advertise their games, but when talking about the art of marketing EA is the best although they are greedy and evil.

I'd like to know more about this "japanses video games crisis of 20th century", because last I checked, the Japanese game industry was thriving and pretty much saved the game industry at that time. Unless you really mean the 21st century where the Japanese have been westernizing the fuck out of their games and turning them into soul-less CoD/Gears clones

Edited September 28, 2013 by Phoenix Trite

[The Prime Reaper 180]

I'd like to know more about this "japanses video games crisis of 20th century", because last I checked, the Japanese game industry were thriving and pretty much saved the game industry at that time. Unless you really mean the 21st century where the Japanese have been westernizing the fuck out of their games and turning them into soul-less CoD/Gears clones

 

Beside, i am sorry for misleading. The crisis which i am refering is the North American video game crash of 1980s in which Japan was also affected but no much as the Artari.

 

Studying carefully this part:

Decline[edit source]

In 2002, the Japanese video game industry made up about 50% of the global market; that share has since shrunk to around 10% by 2010.^[15] The shrinkage in market share has been attributed to a difference of taste between Japanese and Western audiences,^[15][16] and the country's economic recession.^[17] Despite declining home console game sales, the overall Japanese gaming industry, as of 2009, is still valued at $20 billion, the largest sector of which are arcade games at $6 billion, in comparison to home console game sales of $3.5 billion and mobile game sales of $2 billion.^[18] The Japanese arcade industry has also been steadily declining, however, from ¥702.9 billion ($8.7 billion) in 2007 to ¥504.3 billion ($6.2 billion) in 2010.^[17][19] The domestic arcade market's decline has also been attributed to the country's economic recession.^[17]

In recent years, Japanese companies have been criticized for long development times and slow release dates on home video game consoles, their lack of third-party game engines, and for being too insular to appeal to a global market.^[20] Yoichi Wada stated in the Financial Times on April 27, 2009 the Japanese gaming industry of having become a "closed environment" and "almost xenophobic."^[21] He also stated: "The lag with the US is very clear. The US games industry was not good in the past but it has now attracted people from the computer [industry] and from Hollywood, which has led to strong growth."^[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_gaming_in_Japan

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/03/08/mega-man-creator-on-the-decline-of-japanese-gaming

[Katana 298]

Let me put it this way: In Assassin's Creed, your character is capable of knocking over robed women, killing them, and then teabagging them. The game will somewhat punish you for it, and there's not much point, but you can do it.

It sounds like a criticism of Japanese games is

A. Women are dressed scantily with no real need (even GTA4 had women wearing full jacket clothing outside, since the game takes place in Autumn)

B. The game actively rewards you for being a pervert. (In GTA, they rarely do anything to reward you)

C. The sex minigame's inclusion into the story is mostly shoehorned in. (Not that I can think of a good way to do it - but for instance, in GTA, you're visiting shady and sleazy characters on their home turf. That logically equates to joining them inside a strip club, and I don't think the game designers are going to go halfway on something like that)

Edited September 29, 2013 by Katana