Princess Celestia: Benevolent Ruler or Selfish Tyrant?

[purple.teal 50]

I have the habit of re-watching episodes as I wait for the next one to come out and I did so, something I saw got me thinking. I was watching the episode "Winter Wrap Up" Season 1 Episode 11, when I began to wonder as to why they were having to bring spring in 'on schedule'. Wouldn't it come naturally? Then I thought of something I heard in the previous episode: "The Everfree Forest is the only place in Equestria where plants and animals grow up with out the help of ponies. Why do they have to do everything? It hit me when I listened to a song By StormWolf - "The Beginning of Order"

 

 

When Celestia created order, how much did she create? Perhaps  she overdid it a little? I want to know what you think of Celestia. I myself can still see her as a benevolent ruler, I just find myself trying to look into her motives a little deeper when ever she sends Twilight on a new errand. 

 

(Maybe this is already an idea used in a different thread. If so, oops.)

[Clarity 3,094]

 

 

I was watching the episode "Winter Wrap Up" Season 1 Episode 11, when I began to wonder as to why they were having to bring spring in 'on schedule'. Wouldn't it come naturally?

No. It's the job of the pegasi to create the weather everywhere; remember, Equestria isn't like our world, where winter comes naturally. As for it needing to be "on schedule," ponies need to... well, wrap up winter, in order to be prepared for the next season. Things work differently there.

 

 

 

The Everfree Forest is the only place in Equestria where plants and animals grow up with out the help of ponies. Why do they have to do everything?

Again, the natural world in Equestria comes from the ponies and not from cell formation. Plants grow and animals live with the help of Earth ponies (and occasionally pegasi and unicorns as well) because that's their job. Much less Celestia being a selfish tyrant but rather a job that everypony needs to work together on, because it won't do itself. 

[purple.teal 50]

So in that reasoning ponies have been around since the beginning of time. We know that to be false as the ponies came to Equestria only after being kicked out of their last home by the Windigos. Clearly Equestria was doing fine without the interference of the ponies if it was as appealing as they said it was in "Hearth's Warming Eve" Season 2 Episode 11. So the manipulation of weather is not necessary.

[Hive King 2,001]

The ponies controlling the environment is odd but in the end, it doesn't hurt any animal or pony. If we're talking about selfish tyrants, bring out Luna(Pre-Imprisonment). That Luna is a spoiled brat with an ego the size of the planet and was willing to commit genocide because ponies slept. 

[MissShiningStar 33]

I would have to say that Princess Celestia as benevolent as can be. I mean, look how kind she is to Twilight (see Magical Mystery Cure) and the rest of the Mane 6, especially Fluttershy in Keep Calm and Flutter On. She only sent Luna to the moon because she had no choice; Nightmare Moon was becoming a danger to Equestria.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@MissShiningStar, 

Another point, Celestia doesn't fight back at all during her dog fight against Nightmare Moon, just dodges. To me, this heavily implies that she didn't want to fight her sister, even if it wasn't really her

[MissShiningStar 33]

@Evil Dragon Master,

Exactly. So, she would not have been inclined to cause harm to her own sister in the first place.

[purple.teal 50]

I'm not directly saying she means to harm anybody, it just seems to me a bit like a 1984 type world. Everything she does seems to be manipulating Twilight. And maybe its for the best, she made Twilight a princess after all. I think that she also has even bigger plans for her apprentice. Plans that I think have to do with unlocking her true potential as the guardian of harmony or something as she unlocks the box revealed at the end of "Princess Twilight Part 2" Season 4 Episode 2. Even so, if my life was being planned for a larger destiny, I would like to be informed instead of just being ordered around.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@purple.teal,

It could be that Discord screwed the world over so badly that ponies need to control it 

[GrimCW 658]

Hmm not what I was expecting

TBH I was thinking of more like how Celestia kinda stands herself above others constantly like she is far more despite its well shown she is much less. She's still even somewhat condescending toward Luna in some regards too..

 

While she sounds genuine usually, I can't help but get a sense of manipulation in the way she interacts, when she interacts. She always trumps others decisions, never accepts actual council, and seems to always be covered and surrounded by lavish things.

 

I do so much like the comics versions of the two sisters far better TBH Much more... normal....

 

 

 

as she unlocks the box revealed at the end of "Princess Twilight Part 2" Season 4 Episode 2

 

 

After the last episode though, and them suddenly deciding to clean up the old castle... I now half fear that that thing opening will introduce some Gen 3 issues everyone had disdain for... Least I think it was 3...

The "now we're all princesses!" thing... 6 keys.. 6 ponies.. No crowns atm, and a refurbished castle...

Could it be... oh I hope not..

 

But only time will tell, and theres not much I can do about it if it does happen.. So ahh well, and we'll see

 

One thing I do question though, if they clean up the everfree forest, where will Zecora go?... 

 

Ahh crap, going OT.. I'll be off then..

Edited December 25, 2013 by GrimCW

[Hive King 2,001]

@@GrimCW, 

The fact that Luna isn't in a dungeon is impressive, considering her list of crimes

 

Treason, Property Damage, Attempted Murder, Attempted Genocide. etc.

[GrimCW 658]

@,

 

Heh, in her defense, most of that was done a LONG time ago, and she was banished for 1000 years for it already.

 

And not really genocide.. murder yeah, but genocide? 

[JonPear 209]

And not really genocide.. murder yeah, but genocide? 

 

Nightmare Moon wanted to bring eternal night. Plants, including agricultural crops, cannot live without sunlight, and ponies are herbivores. Also, plants produce oxygen. No plants means no oxygen. Everypony would be unable to eat or breathe, and would eventually die.

[purple.teal 50]

Okay yes, what nightmare Moon was planning to do was very bad (understatement). Depending on if you think the comics are canon though, Luna may not have been in control at that time. I do believe she was misguided in her thinking of the way the ponies treated the night and I do not make excuses for allowing herself to become Nightmare Moon. I also truly don't think that the scenario could have ended any other way. But at the very first episode, when Twilight realizes that Nightmare Moon is coming back and sends Celestia a letter, which is seemingly rebuffed. Celestia knew the entire time what was happening, she just didn't feel that Twilight needed to know. again, maybe the way she handled it is for the better, but I would rather know. 

[Zygen 6,066]

That is actually an interesting way to look at it, and does make you wonder.

 

However it depends i guess how you look at it, in whether the everfree is a special place or the rest of Equestria is a special place. Like if the Everfree is exclusive in that it changes on its own, or if its the oddball and the rest of Equestria is normal and has always been that way.(Hopefully that makes sense.)

 

but i still think that Celestia isn't a Tyrant, shes to nice and wants to be treated less like royalty alot of times within the show, which isn't really that Tyrant like. 

 

Overall i can't see her as being a Tyrant. Even if your theory is possibly true.

[NightOwl 912]

Oh lord, I really hate it when people bring this up Celestia is not a troll, tyrant or molester to me there is only one Celestia and I think she is an awesome, kind loving ruler who felt really bad for banishing her sister to the moon.  

[GrimCW 658]

Nightmare Moon wanted to bring eternal night. Plants, including agricultural crops, cannot live without sunlight, and ponies are herbivores. Also, plants produce oxygen. No plants means no oxygen. Everypony would be unable to eat or breathe, and would eventually die.

 

There'd be plenty of fungus about also they could just as easily eat and survive off of. As well as a few bits nocturnal plant life that could strive on.

As to oxygen... given much of equestria already functions oddly, who's to say they breath it? (j/k of course) But life always manages somehow in such situations.

[Gary S. 102]

The song is pure propaganda of Discord. Don't let him pull your leg!
*not totally serious here ;-)*

 

Selfish Tyrant might be the wrong words. A selfish tyrant is King Sombra and Queen Chrysalis who engulf others in misery.
Changing the environment and weather for the better doesn't sound selfish to me if you don't destroy the environment or concuss other states with it.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Gary S.

[Shift 4,274]

I say she's a benevolent goddess and rules as fairly as possible, but she does abuse her power sometimes so everything is perfect. And she never does anything herself.

 

I really prefer Luna, who is obviously the family rebel.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Shift, 

The family rebel who goes around expecting ponies to worship the ground she walks on

Edited December 25, 2013 by Evil Dragon Master

[Side Bird 566]

@@Shift, 

The family rebel who goes around expecting ponies to worship the ground she walks on

Hey hey now, maybe she was a bit jealous. Who knows Equestria might've been better if she won or something. They could've had many ways to live. Heck, it's Equestria!

I like Celestia, she's kind and fair, I hardly see her as a selfish tryant. She's never really done anything totally horrifying and terrible. We are shown a kind princess who some seem to think is a troll, a molester, or a tryant. She's a good Alicorn.

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

Luna has two phases, before being imprisoned and after. 

 

Before, she's throwing a temper tantrum and threatening genocide over the fact that ponies sleep. 

 

After, she's much nicer and is not a spoiled brat like before. 

 

I agree indeed, but the old Luna was just a spoiled toddler throwing a godly tantrum

[Side Bird 566]

@http://mlpforums.com/user/20380-evil-dragon-master/

Huh? Genocide? How did she threaten that?

[ReverseFaller 2,484]

If we go by the comics, then it wasn't entirely Luna's fault. You have to take the nightmare forces into account. As we know, when one is corrupted by these beings, they aren't really themselves.

 

Anyways, Celestia doesn't seem all that tyrannical. However, her being this perfect, kind being does seem kind of boring.

[GrimCW 658]

@@Mikami, Sadly most don't accept the comics (most haven't read them.. they're missing the best stuff! )

so that doesn't entirely work out.

Though given her attitude post NMM it does make more sense.

We don't actually KNOW Luna from before NMM, outside of the TINY glimpse we see from twilights flashbacks.

and TBH she seemed a lot kinder IMO back then too.

 

So the idea of the NMF corrupting her actually makes even more sense once all is considered. An evil outside force manipulating her, and convincing her she should've been more.

 

but alas... unless we mass distribute the comics I doubt most will ever accept them (TMK many just don't like the way the Chrysalis one ended...)