"Reformed" Villains, Yay or Nay?

[Guest90210 3,569]

I would love to see nightmare moon again. But like... Luna vs Nightmare Moon! That would be awesome

 

Agreed. I'm a big fan of battles between "one's self". This is one of the reasons I liked Spider Man 3 so much.

 

 

But the point that some people cannot be reformed must also be considered.

 

That's true. Some are beyond repair and should stay villains.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind if they did some insane idea where they brought back the whole comic book idea and somehow turned the Mane-iac good. Trixie would be welcomed back, but only if she doesn't turn into another Rainbow Dash. Diamond Tiara & Silver Spoon should get reformed and I'm pretty positive they will eventually. I also wouldn't mind Chrysalis returning.

 

I see your point on Lightning Dust, although we may have not seen enough of her to tell for certain.

[Sugar Cube 4,843]

I also enjoy seeing villains get redemption because it not only breathes new life into the characters themselves, but it also helps the series stress its themes of forgiveness, which is something that I feel is highly important.

 

Brawny Buck on YouTube made an excellent, thought provoking video that elaborates on this view further. He can explain why villain redemptions are not such a bad thing better than I can, so take 13 minutes to watch this below. I highly recommend it.

 

Edited February 22, 2014 by Sugar Cube

[RockinRarity 1,605]

I want a reoccuring villain! Discord could have been this villain! Discord was awesome in Return of Harmony and is now a joke. He was dangerous and legitimately threatening, he was manipulative and cruel. As a bringer if chaos and conflict he could do all sorts of wonderful things... now he is on Fluttershy's leash.

 

He has gone from taking over Equestria to trying, and failing, to ruining Twilight's day... topping it off by becoming sick for real. Ponies don't take him seriously any more... I don't take him seriously an more. He is now nothing more then an annoying, asshole troll that can't think big. Held back because the writers say so and an unhealthy friendship with Fluttershy. Hell no one but Fluttershy is Discord's friend, nobody else trusts him and are actively antagonistic towards him... and for good reason.

 

Discord's reform is a joke and I feel should never have happened.

 

I can see where you are coming from, but I kind of disagree.

 

If he became a recurring villain in the series, each time he became the villain, the episode would end the same way. Resurrected, chaos, elements, turn to stone. Resurrected, chaos, elements, turn to stone. There would be slight differences in story and what that chaos would look like, but ultimately it would create a very predictable pattern for the story, and even the biggest Discord fans would become bored of it.

 

If he was resurrected and then they had to give the elements away to the tree of harmony... well then shit, the world is doomed. Can't have that subplot anymore now can we?

 

I wouldn't say that Discord is on Fluttershy's leash. Because Fluttershy doesn't actively boss him around and tell him what to do. She doesn't take him with her everywhere she goes just so that he stays out of trouble. When she left to go see the Breezies, she didn't hire a sitter or lock him up in his home (or her home) or even try to attempt to do anything like that. He's still Discord - he isn't imprisoned. He just decided that he likes having a friend. It's an emotional attachment. Fluttershy never binds him to her.

 

The thing is that Discord is still very manipulative. I noticed it a lot in Three's a Crowd. He manipulates Twilight into doing him favors. He lies to her about the flower at the ends of Equestria to get her to go out there for him to "test" their friendship. He tries to manipulate her into feeling guilty about the way she treats him because "that's not how friends treat each other, AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE MY FRIEND."

 

Honestly, I was disgusted when Discord said that. But I think that's a good thing - it shows that he's still a sociopath and his reformation has pretty much only resulted in him not destroying the world. It doesn't mean he's a saint (which is what people were worried would happen for some reason), because if it was going to happen at all, then he wasn't going to win over the graces of the other five. If they wanted to be realistic about it, if he was to learn anything else at all about friendship and decide to be a better person, that would take a lot of time to undo thousands of years of sociopathic behavior.

 

So of course the other five still don't like him. Because he's still an asshole. An asshole who is entertaining to watch on TV, but an asshole nonetheless. And if you think about it, Fluttershy is partly bound to being friends with Discord because Celestia said that she could do it.

 

I dunno, I think that him being reformed can take the show in a less predictable direction. I would have liked to see him return as an evil character one more time, but you can't win 'em all I guess.

 

So I think that we have a similar take on what it is that is happening to him in the show, but we have different emotional reactions to it. Take that as you will.

[Tigerpop198 696]

Depends on the character, it might work for some, but for others it would be better if they stayed villains.

[RainbowDashington 89]

I just noticed that Flim and Flam are not on the list. They're coming back in S4E20.

 

Will they change???

[hawkflame 3,315]

I can see where you are coming from, but I kind of disagree.

 

If he became a recurring villain in the series, each time he became the villain, the episode would end the same way. Resurrected, chaos, elements, turn to stone. Resurrected, chaos, elements, turn to stone. There would be slight differences in story and what that chaos would look like, but ultimately it would create a very predictable pattern for the story, and even the biggest Discord fans would become bored of it.

 

And this is why I think the solution would be to just have him come back once and then never use him again.

 

I can't be the only one who misses the epic villainous Discord who turned the ponies against each other, can I? He went from being truly intimidating and dangerous to just being an annoying jerk. Am I the only one who doesn't see this as a major downgrade?

[Koelath 445]

"Reform" characters through fear??

 

Holding that "friendship" hostage to make him do your bidding? ...Really??

 

Aside from that, I agree that the disharmony between the sisters made the elements not work right and caused the moon banishment (shooting your own friend and loved one through an artifact of friendship and harmony, "not cool. Here's your punishment" say the Elements)

 

But Chrysalis was blown back by the power of love and Sombra was killed by......positive feelings....?

Yeah, because I was totally talking about reforming characters through fear. I certainly didn't say anything about using fear to keep him in check long enough to teach him how reforming would be a better option. Except that's just what I said, and that's just what they did in the episode, and it has nothing to do with reforming through fear.

 

Oh yeah, presenting a known villainous tyrant with an ultimatum is the worst possible thing in the world. How DARE they!   Honestly, what else were they to do? Discord doesn't have anything to take away. He has friendship and his existence, and that's it. What they did there was the equivalent of withholding a treat from a dog who won't stop s###ting everywhere, which is perfectly okay.

 

The elements worked exactly as they were made to. Luna's banishment was not an error.

 

Sombra was killed by magic.

 

 

 

[NomDeSpite 452]

I would love to see nightmare moon again. But like... Luna vs Nightmare Moon! That would be awesome

Nightmare Moon won't appear again. Luna's over that stage in her life. She's not going to relapse. She's going to be the regal queen you and I know her as.

[XxConfusedUnicornxX 834]

Nightmare Moon won't appear again. Luna's over that stage in her life. She's not going to relapse. She's going to be the regal queen you and I know her as.

I didn't mean Luna BECOMING Nightmare Moon. I meant Nightmare Moon as her own shape. Then Luna battling with her. Won't that be epic?

[RockinRarity 1,605]

And this is why I think the solution would be to just have him come back once and then never use him again.

 

I can't be the only one who misses the epic villainous Discord who turned the ponies against each other, can I? He went from being truly intimidating and dangerous to just being an annoying jerk. Am I the only one who doesn't see this as a major downgrade?

You probably aren't. I am thinking that it boils down to personal preference regarding his character... I actually enjoy him as being a goofy jerk character. I think it tests the ponies in ways that evil Discord couldn't do. Because in real life there are borderline-sociopathic people who we do not want being part of our lives and we just don't like them very much, even if you have a friend who is friends with that person. The gags that he does make his jerkiness entertaining to watch, even if you do feel bad for Twilight (or whoever his victim is). Makes me wonder what this relationship will look like in the long run.

 

But eh, you say tomato, I say tomahto. Just offering my perspective.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

I didn't mean Luna BECOMING Nightmare Moon. I meant Nightmare Moon as her own shape. Then Luna battling with her. Won't that be epic?

The Nightmare arc of the offical MLP Comics offers Luna having to overcome her fear of and fight that which turned her into Nightmare Moon. Yet since the Nightmare forces had taken control of Rarity, turning her into Nightmare Rarity, this was also a battle for Twilight and friends.

 

I can see where you are coming from, but I kind of disagree.

 

If he became a recurring villain in the series, each time he became the villain, the episode would end the same way. Resurrected, chaos, elements, turn to stone. Resurrected, chaos, elements, turn to stone. There would be slight differences in story and what that chaos would look like, but ultimately it would create a very predictable pattern for the story, and even the biggest Discord fans would become bored of it.

I would have it be similiar to that of Him from Powerpuff Girls Z. Have him cause some destructive choas or conflict either in Ponyville or maybe elsewhere, and then have the Mane Six fix the problem. All the while Discord plays keep away because they have the EoH. Rinse and repeat but in some new and creative way.

 

Now admittingly, since the EoH are no more and the 'reform' happened that is not possible but after Discord first returns it could have happened.

 

Honestly, though I love the show very much, I wish it was a bit more like anime where yiu have multi-episode arcs. This would have allowed for more development for characters, the heroes and the villians, and would allow such villians as Nightmare Moon and Discord to be shown off.

Edited February 22, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[RockinRarity 1,605]

The Nightmare arc of the offical MLP Comics offers Luna having to overcome her fear of and fight that which turned her into Nightmare Moon. Yet since the Nightmare forces had taken control of Rarity, turning her into Nightmare Rarity, this was also a battle for Twilight and friends.

 

I would have it be similiar to that of Him from Powerpuff Girls Z. Have him cause some destructive choas or conflict either in Ponyville or maybe elsewhere, and then have the Mane Six fix the problem. All the while Discord plays keep away because they have the EoH. Rinse and repeat but in some new and creative way.

 

Now admittingly, since the EoH are no more and the 'reform' happened that is not possible but after Discord first returns it could have happened.

 

Honestly, though I love the show very much, I wish it was a bit more like anime where yiu have multi-episode arcs. This would have allowed for more development for characters, the heroes and the villians, and would allow such villians as Nightmare Moon and Discord to be shown off.

 

That's an interesting way to think of it. I haven't seen Powerpuff Girls Z but I do love Him from the original show. I could see it kind of like that as well. I think the only issue with trying to do that is him not being in stone while not having any reason or motivation to keep his chaos limited would just cause the world to wreak havoc all the time, based off how we have seen him before. He got released from stone and he went straight to taking over the world.

 

I would like the show to be a certain way, but I like to keep an open mind, because I find that I enjoy the show more if I don't have any hopes or expectations. That way I can't be let down. XD