Is Nightmare Moon Evil?

[Mlpfan185 1,763]

Something was here. Something was here. Something was here. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by NONAME

[SharpWit 2,614]

@@SharpWit,

Since we're on completely different sides that are opinion based, I'll drop the evil vs good debate for now.

 

Now, my basis for the durability of a rock is that in Canterlot Wedding, Twilight was enraged and could only break small parts of crystals. Twilight's magic bolts pissed off and hurt the Tatzlworm, but he wasn't really harmed. Why would it be a stranger? There'd be plenty of ponies who supported Celestia who'd want Nightmare Moon dead. Her wings are actually a very tempting target. Slicing through the tendons and muscles at the base will cripple Nightmare Moon

I don't think she's good at all. I consider her as evil.

 

Crystals and rocks are both minerals but depending on the type it could be tougher or weaker than your average rock. The crystal could have had cracks in it making it weaker and the spell that twilight cast might have also been different. We'll never know. After being imprisoned for a thousand years, everyone is a stranger and I'm sure Nightmare Moon wont associate with supporters of Celestia, and lock them up or worse if they dare try anything. That would hinder her flying capabilities, and depending on how long the pain distracts her and yours or any pony's speed/skill with a knife, will determine how long you have till your dead. That's if you get close to her

 

I refer you to one George Carlin for the answer to your latter question.

He's the best! He makes everything so simple yet,,, yeah

[Mlpfan185 1,763]

Something was here. Something was here. Something was here. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by NONAME

[Hive King 2,001]

@@SharpWit,

She'll have to lock up nearly everypony in Equestria since they apparently love Celestia enough to use her name in swears. I don't think you understand what a sheared wing would do. She'll bleed out in minutes from having even a single wing slashed. Nightmare Moon isn't very smart, a pony could just sneak behind her and then plunge a knife into her spine. Hell, just have a unicorn levitate the knife and then throw it

@,

That's greed, not jealousy. Nightmare Moon was throwing a tantrum over lack of attention 

[Mlpfan185 1,763]

Something was here. Something was here. Something was here. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by NONAME

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

And? Nightmare Moon was just throwing a bitch fit for no good reason, do tell me of her charitable feats 

[Mlpfan185 1,763]

Something was here. Something was here. Something was here. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by NONAME

[SharpWit 2,614]

 

 

She'll have to lock up nearly everypony in Equestria since they apparently love Celestia enough to use her name in swears. I don't think you understand what a sheared wing would do. She'll bleed out in minutes from having even a single wing slashed. Nightmare Moon isn't very smart, a pony could just sneak behind her and then plunge a knife into her spine. Hell, just have a unicorn levitate the knife and then throw it

No. I said any pony who tries anything. And let's turn supporter, into activist. That's if you can get close enough to her and actually shear her wing with a knife. That's not something you can just do to anything with a wing that size and a knife. Like seriously what kind of knife can you conceal that would be able to do that? As for her bleeding out so much that she dies within minutes, that may not occur since she has six limbs, meaning she is most likely to have enough blood to function without them for some time, and before that time is up the perpetrator will be dead and she will heal herself. You'd have to hit her where she will be put down immediately. Just because she can be killed doesn't mean that she isn't very smart. Most Unicorns can't even perform magic with such accuracy, and sneaking up is likely to fail.

 

 

So why isn't she very smart?

[Hive King 2,001]

@@SharpWit,

Nightmare Moon will be hated and as Machiavelli says "Take care not to be feared to the point of hatred". Ponies will want to depose her.  Wings are hilariously weak, a simply slice to the back of the wing, there's major blood vessels there. Having 6 limbs has nothing to do with arteries, and there are arteries at the wings. How do you know Nightmare Moon can heal herself? She never showed this ability and no one will hep her. 

 

Rarity is an average unicorn and can easily manipulate objects with dexerity, it'd be a matter of ease to stab a knife into Nightmare Moon's nape.

 

Why isn't she smart? She fell for the teleport trick and didn't destroy the Elements until they were right in front of her

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

Yes eternal night would cause massive death but it's not like NMM wanted to destroy everything.

 

Dude... Eternal Night would kill EVERYTHING.

Everything alive relies on the power of the Sun. It's basically the battery of life. Even if you ignored the fact that everything would freeze without it, the food chain would be destroyed from the bottom up. Plants need sunlight to survive. If there's no sun, they all die. If the plants all die, all the herbivores die. If all the herbivores die, all the carnivores die.

Not to mention the smaller, more direct things. Like birds for example. Most birds are blind in the dark. So all the birds would be totally crippled being unable to see or fly. And then reptiles. Many reptiles need to bask in the warmth of the sun before they get the day started because they can't generate their own body heat.

 

LUNA wanted love and attention.

But Nightmare Moon wanted to destroy the world (unless she was just COMPLETELY deluded/insane and thought that she'd still have something to rule after the sun was gone... hope she likes dead, frozen landscapes).

Edited February 19, 2014 by ShadOBabe

[Hive King 2,001]

@@ShadOBabe,

Well, dragons would be fine, they eat gems. Parasprites can eat anything, Timberwolves might live. Discord would be alive, Sombra would live, the Tatzlworms will be able to depose Nightmare Moon if she hurts them. Hell, Ahuizotl might destroy her plans all together if he can find the rings in time and power up his Sun cannon.

 

So yeah, Nightmare Moon rules only three things, Timberwolves, Parasprites, and Sombra, they are the only ones weaker than her wh could survive. Discord, dragons, and Tatzlworms are too powerful for her to handle

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

@@ShadOBabe,

Well, dragons would be fine, they eat gems. Parasprites can eat anything, Timberwolves might live. Discord would be alive, Sombra would live, the Tatzlworms will be able to depose Nightmare Moon if she hurts them. Hell, Ahuizotl might destroy her plans all together if he can find the rings in time and power up his Sun cannon.

 

So yeah, Nightmare Moon rules only three things, Timberwolves, Parasprites, and Sombra, they are the only ones weaker than her wh could survive. Discord, dragons, and Tatzlworms are too powerful for her to handle

 

Yeah, but we've seen how cold weather affects dragons with Spike in Winter Wrap Up. They apparently need warmth like other reptiles. Perhaps they could live in the volcanic areas, but yeah, that would be really inconvenient and you know they'd probably all stage an attack on NM.

 

Only the Parasprites that Twilight put a spell on can eat anything.

Many were put back in the forest before Twilight tried the spell (and there were probably plenty still living in the forest before that). So unless the spell causes a hereditary change in Parasprite diet, the eat-everything ones will eventually die out.

 

Not sure why you think Tatzlworms are specially equipped to survive eternal night.

They seem to be carnivores, so their prey could die out as well.

Edited February 19, 2014 by ShadOBabe

[SharpWit 2,614]

@@SharpWit,

Nightmare Moon will be hated and as Machiavelli says "Take care not to be feared to the point of hatred". Ponies will want to depose her.  Wings are hilariously weak, a simply slice to the back of the wing, there's major blood vessels there. Having 6 limbs has nothing to do with arteries, and there are arteries at the wings. How do you know Nightmare Moon can heal herself? She never showed this ability and no one will hep her. 

 

Rarity is an average unicorn and can easily manipulate objects with dexerity, it'd be a matter of ease to stab a knife into Nightmare Moon's nape.

 

Why isn't she smart? She fell for the teleport trick and didn't destroy the Elements until they were right in front of her

She wont be hated to the point where the masses all rise against, her. Like we discussed earlier, she doesn't want to be hated, which means she would take care not to be feared to that point. Setting anatomy aside, she could easily cauterize the wound by making fire and burning the wounded area. It's possible that someone with any sense of goodwill would do something for her. Or even try to make a deal with her before lending a hoof.

 

Rarity is not an average Unicorn. She is the element of generosity, and has a career that requires the darting of small sharp objects such as jewels and needles, meaning yes she has the ability but others don't. And how many ponies including Rarity, would be willing to kill? Just because they don't like the pony who may I mention has secondary right to the throne, doesn't mean they'll want to kill her. Even if she is corrupt.

 

Anyone could fall for that trick, and why would she destroy the elements immediately? Her former self used them multiple times to save Equestria, so she knows that they are the last line of defense. She destroyed them in a last ditch effort to take control, without inflicting death upon others.

Dude... Eternal Night would kill EVERYTHING.

Everything alive relies on the power of the Sun. It's basically the battery of life. Even if you ignored the fact that everything would freeze without it, the food chain would be destroyed from the bottom up. Plants need sunlight to survive. If there's no sun, they all die. If the plants all die, all the herbivores die. If all the herbivores die, all the carnivores die.

Not to mention the smaller, more direct things. Like birds for example. Most birds are blind in the dark. So all the birds would be totally crippled being unable to see or fly. And then reptiles. Many reptiles need to bask in the warmth of the sun before they get the day started because they can't generate their own body heat.

 

LUNA wanted love and attention.

But Nightmare Moon wanted to destroy the world (unless she was just COMPLETELY deluded/insane and thought that she'd still have something to rule after the sun was gone... hope she likes dead, frozen landscapes).

I know that it would kill nearly everything. that's why I say that NMM wouldn't have actually kept everything in eternal night. no sense in ruling nothing

 

Although Tatzlworms live in the ground, ground dwelling creatures require nutrients from dead organisms that have decayed or are decaying into the soil. There are plants eaten by the moles, but plants rely on sunlight, so that's out of the question. Except for certain plants, mostly large trees and more specifically trees that grow in cold dry areas high up in certain mountain regions can live for years in a dormant state. these would be a temporary food source. that may not even be able to be reached. I recommend this video.

Edited February 19, 2014 by SharpWit

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

 

 

I know that it would kill nearly everything. that's why I say that NMM wouldn't have actually kept everything in eternal night. no sense in ruling nothing

 

So you're of the opinion that she would have tried to keep it eternal night and then realize, "Crap, everything's dying"?

That's a viable option. But it's also possible that she DIDN'T want to rule. She wanted to destroy everything out of spite.

And then there's the comics were we're introduced to the Nightmare Forces that possess creatures by taking advantage of their insecurities. The Nightmare Forces can only come out in the dark, so they wanted to make it always dark using Luna's powers.

 

 

 

Although Tatzlworms live in the ground, ground dwelling creatures require nutrients from dead organisms that have decayed or are decaying into the soil.

 

I know how real world worms eat.

But like I said, judging by how it tried to eat Twilight and Cadance, I think it eats more than just organic debris.

[SharpWit 2,614]

So you're of the opinion that she would have tried to keep it eternal night and then realize, "Crap, everything's dying"?

That's a viable option. But it's also possible that she DIDN'T want to rule. She wanted to destroy everything out of spite.

And then there's the comics were we're introduced to the Nightmare Forces that possess creatures by taking advantage of their insecurities. The Nightmare Forces can only come out in the dark, so they wanted to make it always dark using Luna's powers.

 

 

 

 

I know how real world worms eat.

But like I said, judging by how it tried to eat Twilight and Cadance, I think it eats more than just organic debris.

Well if she wanted to destroy things out of spite she sure took the easy way out. But that makes a lot of sense. As for my opinion, it only works if she does want to rule, and she's just using eternal night as a bluff t blackmail

 

And for the worms, that's why I said that stuff because they wouldn't survive eternal night for the reasons Evil Dragon Master was probably thinking, let alone at all. 

Edited February 19, 2014 by SharpWit

[Denim&Venöm 18,733]

I was actually considering a thread, asking if NMM reign would've been so bad?

 

I mean, look at the worst she does:

 

-Shoots down Celestia (debatable whether she wanted to kill Celestia or just incapacitate her)

-Strikes down guards (self defense)

-Makes scary looking trees

-Cuts off a Sea Serpents mustache

-Destabilizes a cliff, rather than just pushing all the ponies off

-Puts a thorn into a Manitcore's paw

-Tries to entice Rainbow Dash

-Smashes the EoH

 

I'm pretty sure a being capable of generating enough energy and force to move the moon would be able to atomize entire mountain ranges, let alone mere ponies.  

 

She wanted the attention of her subjects. Force them to pay attention to her creations. But for that, she'll need them to be kept alive. No need to create the wonders of the moon lit sky for a lifeless wasteland. I'm guessing that the worst she'll do is force ponykind to adapt to a nocturnal existence.  How harshly this would be enforced can be up to interpretation. 

 

Her conflict with Celestia didn't start as NMM, but as Luna. All she did was eclipse the sun. While that did get Celstia's attention, it didn't get Luna's demands met. Had Celestia acquiesced, perhaps offered a compromise that would've satisfied Luna's needs, NMM wouldn't have even existed. But that didn't happen, and NMM was just an escalation. Celestia wouldn't give, so NMM was going to take her out of the equation and do things herself. 

 

Comics haven't been confirmed as cannon and most likely aren't, as there are a few discrepancies between show and comic events. So the dreamscape theory and NMM being a separate entity are going to have to be discussed as an alternate universe. 

[Hive King 2,001]

@@ShadOBabe,

Yeah, the dragons would be pissed and probably try to kill Nightmare Moon. About the Tatzlworms, I meant they could kill Nightmare Moon. Even Discord was shitting himself when they attacked, and Discord is easily stronger than Nightmare Moon. @@SharpWit,

Again, how do we know that Nightmare Moon can create fire? From what we saw in her dog fight, her blasts were purely concussive and didn't leave burn marks, unlike Chrysalis's beam, that one was heat based. Nightmare Moon won't get to someone in time if her wing muscles are lopped. 

 

Nightmare Moon has no right to the throne, Luna did. Cadence is next in line, Shining Armor, any of the royals would be better legally. Officially, Nightmare Moon has no claim what so ever to the throne. Nightmare Moon is too arrogant to even keep guards around her, its only a matter of time before someone decides to kill her. 

 

Nightmare Moon wouldn't even be able to use the Elements, she possessed none of their qualities, save maybe Honesty(I don't think she lied)

 

 

Although Tatzlworms live in the ground, ground dwelling creatures require nutrients from dead organisms that have decayed or are decaying into the soil. There are plants eaten by the moles, but plants rely on sunlight, so that's out of the question. Except for certain plants, mostly large trees and more specifically trees that grow in cold dry areas high up in certain mountain regions can live for years in a dormant state. these would be a temporary food source. that may not even be able to be reached. I recommend this video.

Again, the Tatzlworms seem somewhat intelligent and if they find out Nightmare Moon did this, she's dead. Even Discord was terrified of them.

 

@@Denim&Venom,

 How is destabilizing a cliff any different from pushing them off? That'd be like my bombing the base of a building and when it collapses going "No, I just destabilized it"

 

Moving the Moon =/= Atomizing mountain ranges. Discord makes Celestia and Nightmare Moon look like push overs, yet he was terrified and unable to hurt the Tatzlworm, a being which was flinched by Twilight's blasts. 

 

Celestia wasn't ever told about Luna's jealousy, Luna just brooded and pissed and moaned in silence, not telling Celestia. Also, do tell me what kind of compromise you're thinking of? There is no way to do so

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

 

 

About the Tatzlworms, I meant they could kill Nightmare Moon. Even Discord was shitting himself when they attacked, and Discord is easily stronger than Nightmare Moon.

 

I always saw that as more Discord being surprised than anything.

And you know right before it sneezed on him, he did this little gesture with his hand that looked to me like he was about to use some magic on it. But then it just sneezed and he was like, "Uh..." XDD

[Hive King 2,001]

@@ShadOBabe, 

Still, if they can carry diseases that can cripple Discord, surely Nightmare Moon will have a problem with that. Not to mention that Discord, a god, jumped into Twilight's arms and screamed "WHAT IN THE WORLD?!"

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

@@ShadOBabe, 

Still, if they can carry diseases that can cripple Discord, surely Nightmare Moon will have a problem with that. Not to mention that Discord, a god, jumped into Twilight's arms and screamed "WHAT IN THE WORLD?!"

 

It's been proven that Discord isn't omniscient (which is why I think of him more as a "spirit" than a "god").

He's probably never seen a Tatzlworm before. I totally think he could still defeat it, but he was startled. XD

[Hive King 2,001]

@@ShadOBabe,

God and spirit are very interchangable. Even so, the fact that its sneeze left Discord bed ridden and crippled suggests that if the Tatzlworms fought Nightmare Moon(they seem somewhat smart) then there's the probability of one of them carrying a disease to make her sick

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

 

 

God and spirit are very interchangeable.

 

Ehhh... I'd dispute that.

Generally spirits are of lesser power. At least is fiction and mythology.

But yeah, they probably could have made her sick. But I don't think they're sapient like Discord and the Dragons.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@ShadOBabe,

To be fair, Discord is a "Spirit of Discord" yet he would trash some of the minor "gods" in the Percy Jackson verse. It just depends on what your definition is.

 

The Tatzlworm looked to be sad when it slithered back into its hole after sneezing. IDK maybe I'm seeing things, but it looked upset. Even if they aren't sentient, they'll be looking for food and Nightmare Moon will be a tempting target assuming she has any subjects

[Jokuc 8,173]

Yes I think Nightmare Moon is evil.

 

Being jealous is not an excuse for wanting to do such things. Princess luna got so jealous that her hate took over and she became "Nightmare Moon" which made her evil. Why do you think she became black and all scary looking? Covering a land in darkness would kill the creatures living there since the sun provides heat which is needed for them to survive. Without a sun it would get increadibly cold, and they would not be able to survive. However we don't know if equestria has something that keeps the warmth up.

 

Then again, maybe Luna did not think about this.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Jokuc

[Denim&Venöm 18,733]

@@ShadOBabe,

Yeah, the dragons would be pissed and probably try to kill Nightmare Moon. About the Tatzlworms, I meant they could kill Nightmare Moon. Even Discord was shitting himself when they attacked, and Discord is easily stronger than Nightmare Moon. @@SharpWit,

Again, how do we know that Nightmare Moon can create fire? From what we saw in her dog fight, her blasts were purely concussive and didn't leave burn marks, unlike Chrysalis's beam, that one was heat based. Nightmare Moon won't get to someone in time if her wing muscles are lopped. 

 

Nightmare Moon has no right to the throne, Luna did. Cadence is next in line, Shining Armor, any of the royals would be better legally. Officially, Nightmare Moon has no claim what so ever to the throne. Nightmare Moon is too arrogant to even keep guards around her, its only a matter of time before someone decides to kill her. 

 

Nightmare Moon wouldn't even be able to use the Elements, she possessed none of their qualities, save maybe Honesty(I don't think she lied)

 

 

Again, the Tatzlworms seem somewhat intelligent and if they find out Nightmare Moon did this, she's dead. Even Discord was terrified of them.

 

@@Denim&Venom,

 How is destabilizing a cliff any different from pushing them off? That'd be like my bombing the base of a building and when it collapses going "No, I just destabilized it"

 

Moving the Moon =/= Atomizing mountain ranges. Discord makes Celestia and Nightmare Moon look like push overs, yet he was terrified and unable to hurt the Tatzlworm, a being which was flinched by Twilight's blasts. 

 

Celestia wasn't ever told about Luna's jealousy, Luna just brooded and pissed and moaned in silence, not telling Celestia. Also, do tell me what kind of compromise you're thinking of? There is no way to do so

Don't forget the element of Magic. She seems especially skilled in that.

 

How is destabilizing a cliff any different than pushing them off is irrelevant. The question is, why didn't she just push them off? Why didn't she just obliterate them? Seems like Luna is going out of her way to slow down and hinder the ponies. If she had any killer instinct, it would've been unleashed early on. 

 

Discord, dragons and Tatzl worms are also irrelevant. The question isn't if she can defeat them. It's about her being evil. Discord is iffy, being a creature capable of warping the fabric of reality, but dragons and worms are mortal, and as mentioned, Luna can generate enough energy to move a massive satellite like the moon. That is more energy than all of earth's man made explosives, including nuclear weapons, combined. Besides, Discords magic is non-lethal in the scheme of things. He has never done any deliberate physical harm in any of his episodes. If Twi and Cadence's magic can hurt the Tatzil worm, NMM can obliterate it off the face of the earth. 

 

And how do we know that Celestia wasn't informed of her sisters jealousy or didn't notice it herself? Celestia's awareness of the situation before Luna went on strike is a bit ambiguous. 

 

And I've already posted a topic discussing how the NMM rebellion could've been handled better.