How far is Hasbro C&D willing to go?

[Wolfstanus 116]

You have to remember.

 

They created mlp.

You are a fan

You make art based on their creation.

They have the copyrights.

You are making a profit on their creation or ideas or art in some way.

Infringing on their copyrights.

They ask you to stop.

They are not doing this out of being an evil corporate entity but some of you are profiting off of their copyrights

If they are destroying the fanbase that would mean suicide for all that was worked on.

The show dies down

They lose money

They are a company

They are protecting their investments.

[Guest]

 

 

If this is the case then why is there even a ''Fair Use Law'' to begin with? To me that would be pointless if the trademark law can always override it.

 

It doesn't though. Fair use is when you don't violate trademark.

 

 

 

Companies like Valve and Microsoft have proven that having a open relation ship with fans can increase your profit.

 

Different companies have different strategies. Also Hasbro is not the same type of business.

 

 

 

I can understand why the law is there and I respect the company for exercising it if they truly feel their IP is in danger, but something like ''Button Mash Adventures'' should fall under the ''Fair Use Law''.  

 

There is more to it than that. 

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

I don't think Hasbro is being unreasonable by protecting it's intellectual property, and so far they have been relatively open to fandom content. The biggest downside to the C&D orders is that they discourage the release of professional quality fan content. As far as some of the higher quality content goes, Hasbro would be better off licencing the brand to the creators and earning a small profit from the royalties. I think if a team is producing that level of work, rather than avoiding a C&D by going non-profit, they would be better off approaching Hasbro with a licencing proposal, which is, in my mind, a huge win for all parties involved.

[GrimCW 658]

 

 

This is how the popular web series RedvsBlue was born, and it has only helped to advertise not only Halo but the Xbox as well.

 

 

On the flip side though, its not how the C&D that shut down the live action ODST fan made web series worked out..

Despite it followed an MS licensed story from the Evolutions books, and was 100% free project (no donations were there for this TMK).. That would've sold more books, advertised ODST/Halo more, and given the fans what they really wanted.. a Live action Halo film!

Instead, it was canned due to C&D while MS began to make the terrible (and I do mean terrible.. ugh, those actors were just BAD...) live action series they did instead...

That one def should've been license, those random people could act circles around the crew that ended up in the official :/

 

But again, that was due to like the star wars one above where the company was making their own variation of the same thing.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Hiring fans does not make you look good to other companies, it makes you look unprofessional for hiring non-professionals who ripped off your IP.

 

Secondly, you clearly have no concept of business if you honestly think someone is going to see Hasbro selling their plushies and making millions of dollars and not expecting part of those millions in return. You seem to have this impression that fans would "just be happy to work for them at all", but that's not true. They would see it as "Hasbro makes millions off my product, I should get some of those millions." They would want to get as much out of it as possible. Money coming into play changes the mentalities really quick.

Then how does Bethesda, Bungie, and valve hire fans who "ripped off their ips", remain some of the most highly regarded developers around? And you don't make their plushies, you make your own. At a market profit. They already own the design of the characters, shitting out a plus sized deluxe plushy could increase their revenue. You see to have this impression that people are just always "out to win everything, will see every legal loophole and win the day!", when in reality a lot of the animators can be easily coerced into signing contracts that favour the company, without a lot of negative fallout. I know how easily people can be coerced, sociology major.

[Tabe 216]

Alot of people here pretty much nailed the answer.

[Guest]

I am going to put this out there:

 

Very seldom is any fan-made project completely non-profit or has no money that has or will come from it.

 

Attention can easily be turned into profit and it can be turned into profit that can be "off the books" to skeet around the law. Hasbro is stopping it before it reaches that point. If you gain attention from Hasbro's IP, you can turn that into profit somehow down the road. If Jan Animations didn't make MLP videos, they would not have gotten as much attention as they do now. So if they go to make an original work now, they already have all that free attention they stole by using Hasbro's product, attention they would have had to earn the hard way if they didn't make MLP videos.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

I am going to put this out there:

 

Very seldom is any fan-made project completely non-profit or has no money that has or will come from it.

 

Attention can easily be turned into profit and it can be turned into profit that can be "off the books" to skeet around the law. Hasbro is stopping it before it reaches that point. If you gain attention from Hasbro's IP, you can turn that into profit somehow down the road. If Jan Animations didn't make MLP videos, they would not have gotten as much attention as they do now. So if they go to make an original work now, they already have all that free attention they stole by using Hasbro's product, attention they would have had to earn the hard way if they didn't make MLP videos.

Sounds like jealousy to me.

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,853]

You know, I really hope that Hasbro goes after more of these 'artists' and 'animators'. If you want to create something, be original, don't rip off other people's work!

[Zhortac 1,473]

I see some interesting perspectives here. There is an exception to copyright laws which is called "Fair Use."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

 

 

We would have to determine whether Button Mash and Fighting is Magic would fall under "Fair Use." Assuming that the creators of "Button Mash" and "Fighting is Magic" did not hire lawyers to find this out, it is probably tricky to determine it.

 

That's a very thin line though. I think Fighting is Magic had a kickstarter, but even if they didn't, someone could give them a penny to use towards the game, and it would get them nailed. Button would depend on Youtube, if they put adds on those videos or Jan was a partner.

 

You have to look at stuff like 8-bit theater, and RvB to see how to do that stuff right (although, RvB got alot of slack, because the creators of Halo and alot of Microsoft staff support them). I mean, Jan COULD fight it, but it's unlikely it would go anywhere. Guess he's not as lucky as TFS and Littlekuriboh were.

[Guest]

 

 

Then how does Bethesda, Bungie, and valve hire fans who "ripped off their ips", remain some of the most highly regarded developers around?

 

Because they are a completely different type of company. They are not the same type of business, different strategies work for different companies.

 

 

 

You see to have this impression that people are just always "out to win everything, will see every legal loophole and win the day!", when in reality a lot of the animators can be easily coerced into signing contracts that favour the company, without a lot of negative fallout. I know how easily people can be coerced, sociology major.

 

If you are a sociology major then you'd realize that people will always try to get the most of their investments.

 

Secondly, can you name many instances where people didn't try to get the most out of business contracts? It does not happen often, sociology has nothing to do with this, it's business. Business is business, business is money. Business is about making money and how to make the most you can. The reason why businesses avoid this strategy often is because experience from past businesses tells us that it is true more often than not. Will there be exceptions? Sure, but what are you going to bank on? The low chance or the high chance?

Sounds like jealousy to me.

Jealous of what? I don't make fan-content. I am jealous of nothing, I am merely saying from a business standpoint I can understand where Hasbro is coming from and I agree. A business is always out to protect the business. It's not a personal issue to me, but I know that Hasbro is NOT stupid.

 

They know that there is always a way to sneak a profit in and they want to prevent that before it happens. It's not jealousy it's that it's not fair.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Because they are a completely different type of company. They are not the same type of business, different strategies work for different companies.

 

 

 

If you are a sociology major then you'd realize that people will always try to get the most of their investments.

 

Secondly, can you name many instances where people didn't try to get the most out of business contracts? It does not happen often, sociology has nothing to do with this, it's business. Business is business, business is money. Business is about making money and how to make the most you can. The reason why businesses avoid this strategy often is because experience from past businesses tells us that it is true more often than not. Will there be exceptions? Sure, but what are you going to bank on? The low chance or the high chance?

If you were a sociology major, you would now that most people are not informed enough to make the most off their investments. Most people, when faced with "the dream", will often overlook negative side effects in order to pursue that which they want.

[GrimCW 658]

You know, I really hope that Hasbro goes after more of these 'artists' and 'animators'. If you want to create something, be original, don't rip off other people's work!

 

Better erase that profile, remove your avatar (especially that, since its in no way official. Its a fan work done by a rather R34 connected artist no less.), delete all content from your HDD, burn any shirts or other non-direct from hasbro items you have. While your at it, smash your TV, computer, and burn your home to the ground.

How much of these things are all based off something else?

 

Very little and next to nothing is original, everything is a copy in some form or another. Its just a matter of approach and how far its been altered to seem less like the  original that makes things different.

[Guest]

If you were a sociology major, you would now that most people are not informed enough to make the most off their investments. Most people, when faced with "the dream", will often overlook negative side effects in order to pursue that which they want.

What...?

 

The "dream" is often to make money on what you love to do. Plus if a big company is offering you a contract you will read that shit. Only stupid people would not. What they want is money, a majority of people like money and when they see the possibility to get a crap ton they are going to read between the lines. These people are also out to make a business for themselves so they are not going to let fantasy stand in the way of that.

 

Clearly you need to go back to school and realize that sociology does not negate business. Not to mention I feel your classes are inadequate because anyone who has used the internet for a short time can clearly see that humans commonly want the most for their money and the most for their investments. That's human nature, to want less for more. I am surprised you're arguing against that because a majority of sociology experts would agree that humans always want less for more.

 

If all you're going to do is throw around sociology and not look at the business side of it (in a business argument no less) then I am done wasting my time here. I've said my bit, you're free to disagree, but I sure hope you don't go into business for yourself with your mentality.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Guest

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

What...?

 

The "dream" is often to make money on what you love to do. Plus if a big company is offering you a contract you will read that shit. Only stupid people would not. What they want is money, a majority of people like money and when they see the possibility to get a crap ton they are going to read between the lines. These people are also out to make a business for themselves so they are not going to let fantasy stand in the way of that.

 

Clearly you need to go back to school and realize that sociology does not negate business. Not to mention I feel your classes are inadequate because anyone who has used the internet for a short time can clearly see that humans commonly want the most for their money and the most for their investments. That's human nature, to want less for more. I am surprised you're arguing against that because a majority of sociology experts would agree that humans always want less for more.

Clearly you need a return to class if you think sociology (the study of social interactions) has no place in business. And you lack major reading comprehension, I said that when faced with a goal, suddenly most people over look details. It happens all the time. Just because some guy on the internet says that he would look over it, does not mean he actually would. Humans commonly say they want less for more, and then they buy the mgs5 demo for $30, a 2 hour experience for $30. Almost half the price of the retail title. It's like you just don't understand people, and assume that they are at all times thinking in a logical fashion. I am done replying to you.

[Guest]

Clearly you need a return to class if you think sociology (the study of social interactions) has no place in business. And you lack major reading comprehension, I said that when faced with a goal, suddenly most people over look details. It happens all the time. Just because some guy on the internet says that he would look over it, does not mean he actually would. Humans commonly say they want less for more, and then they buy the mgs5 demo for $30, a 2 hour experience for $30. Almost half the price of the retail title. It's like you just don't understand people, and assume that they are at all times thinking in a logical fashion. I am done replying to you.

Excuse me, but insulting me is uncalled for and detracts from your point. Keep it relevant please.

 

Secondly I never said it has no place in business, now who is lacking in reading comprehension?

 

Your example of MGS5's demo though is a matter of the "want it now" mentality. A completely different thing. People will pay more to get things faster, but if two things come out at the same time and you offer one for less and one for more, people are more likely (notice I said likely, because there are always exceptions) to take the less expensive one. People would not pay more for the exact same product just because they liked the company, it's highly uncommon.

 

Sit down, stop trying to make your knowledge in sociology hold more water when it has little relevance. You're trying to make the fact that you took sociology make you seem more accredited to dispute this when it has little actual value in this discussion. Not to mention: I took sociology too. Many professors would disagree with you here.

 

Business is what this discussion is about, not sociology. Does it come into play? Sure. However the main crux of this discussion is business.

 

Not to mention the study of social interactions is partially a pseudo-science.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Excuse me, but insulting me is uncalled for and detracts from your point. Keep it relevant please.

 

Secondly I never said it has no place in business, now who is lacking in reading comprehension?

 

Your example of MGS5's demo though is a matter of the "want it now" mentality. A completely different thing. People will pay more to get things faster, but if two things come out at the same time and you offer one for less and one for more, people are more likely (notice I said likely, because there are always exceptions) to take the less expensive one. People would not pay more for the exact same product just because they liked the company, it's highly uncommon.

 

Sit down, stop trying to make your knowledge in sociology hold more water when it has little relevance. You're trying to make the fact that you took sociology make you seem more accredited to dispute this when it has little actual value in this discussion. Not to mention: I took sociology too. Many professors would disagree with you here.

 

Business is what this discussion is about, not sociology. Does it come into play? Sure. However the main crux of this discussion is business.

 

Not to mention the study of social interactions is partially a pseudo-science.

>has business degree

>doesn't run or own a business

>massive no true scots man

>I'm done, ignored and blocked.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

A major difference I can see between Hasbro and companies like Valve, is that video game development is largely about creating technology. Technological advancement can benefit from crowd sourcing because when others develop things based on your technology, then you can in turn build upon what they've done to make your stuff better.

 

Making a cartoon isn't really like that. There is no progress, there is just aesthetics.

[DiScorded MaIne 6]

I think this is a fake C&D order by a troll, because Jan's work fits under fair use as a non profit fan parody, plus there was problems with the letter it self. Things like spelling and grammtical errors made it look unofficial, and to top it off it was sent through YouTube, which is not the way to send an official document.

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,853]

I think this is a fake C&D order by a troll, because Jan's work fits under fair use as a non profit fan parody, plus there was problems with the letter it self. Things like spelling and grammtical errors made it look unofficial, and to top it off it was sent through YouTube, which is not the way to send an official document.

Why would anybody do that? It would be very easy to verify, just phone the local courthouse. That takes two minutes. So no, this is real.

[Guest]

>has business degree

>doesn't run or own a business

>massive no true scots man

>I'm done, ignored and blocked.

When did I say I didn't own or run a business?

 

Also you made your fair share of fallacies. Blocking and ignoring being kind of one of them... "Remove the opposing viewpoint from the equation". XP

 

Thanks for the conversation though.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

I think this is a fake C&D order by a troll, because Jan's work fits under fair use as a non profit fan parody, plus there was problems with the letter it self. Things like spelling and grammtical errors made it look unofficial, and to top it off it was sent through YouTube, which is not the way to send an official document.

This has been brought up before. Jan Animation made sure to verify the C&D was legitimate before taking their stuff own.

[Dark Qiviut 22,201]

I think this is a fake C&D order by a troll, because Jan's work fits under fair use as a non profit fan parody, plus there was problems with the letter it self. Things like spelling and grammtical errors made it look unofficial, and to top it off it was sent through YouTube, which is not the way to send an official document.

1. A lot of people were and still are suspicious, but this is a true C&D. After JanAnimations received the e-mail, he called a lawyer office for verification. The lawyers confirmed it.
2. Jan doesn't have a public e-mail, so the only way to contact him was through YT.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

[GrimCW 658]

Making a cartoon isn't really like that. There is no progress, there is just aesthetics.

 

And those aesthetics make up the show. The created characters from the fans, expanded stories, and hard work can actually improve the show by giving the company a better idea of what is enjoyed by the fans.

Integrating the fans into the shows staff would also put a clearer focus on making sure things turn out for the best.

 

Lauren Faust after all is/was a huge fan of MLP before she pitched the reboot. If it wasn't for that one fan, this new series wouldn't exist.

Imagine what could happen if Hasbro used Buttons adventures as a spinoff web series!

 

I think this is a fake C&D order by a troll, because Jan's work fits under fair use as a non profit fan parody, plus there was problems with the letter it self. Things like spelling and grammtical errors made it look unofficial, and to top it off it was sent through YouTube, which is not the way to send an official document.

 

I dunno, I've actually been handed lawyer trash before and it was so badly worded and typed that if the lawyer hadn't given it to me himself, I'd have thought it fake too.

And generally the lawyers aren't smart enough to know how to directly contact the video creators, nor will they look for the obvious links. They usually just send a random letter to the site hosting the content since theres normally a "report" button that can be utilized.

 

 

Why would anybody do that? It would be very easy to verify, just phone the local courthouse. That takes two minutes. So no, this is real.

 

Same reason someone would "swat" someone else.

As for verification, that would be a LOT harder to do. The local courthouse would not have any knowledge of the C&D, it never passes any courts. This is a document sent directly to the supposed infringer, from the lawyers office. A "warning" of sort BEFORE any official legal documentation is filed. This way they can say "we warned them" and the person wouldn't be able to defend themselves any better.

 

 

This has been brought up before. Jan Animation made sure to verify the C&D was legitimate before taking their stuff own.

 

Did they? they had permission to post the bronydoc video and even that has been pulled.

 

 

 

1. A lot of people were and still are suspicious, but this is a true C&D. After JanAnimations received the e-mail, he called a lawyer office for verification. The lawyers confirmed it.

 

 

What office? if it wasn't Hasbro's, and there wasn't a massive fee involved, I'd question if said lawyer even looked into it besides it looking official.

You can find official looking documents all over the place online, and thats actually where the aforementioned lawyer got the one he handed me.

He downloaded it, filled in the blanks, and handed it to me. 

I know that because the wording of it would've allowed him access to some very private medical information that he had no need for, and I refused to sign. So he confessed and altered the document accordingly.

Edited March 23, 2014 by GrimCW

[Guest]

ITT: People arguing against a company defending its IP tooth and nail, unwilling to admit they have any rights whatsoever because big business is bad and we don't like it.

 

Yeah, I'm done here.