movies/tv Anyone else feel that Jessie, James, and Meowth from Team Rocket are antiheroes?

[Adachi 772]

Sure, they work for an evil corporation, but it's only because nobody else would hire them. They're always trying to capture Pikachu, but they've saved the twerps multiple times (at least in the movies). And they are more human than most characters in the anime.

 

I honestly think that James at the very least is capable of becoming a full blown good guy. He really cares for and loves his Pokemon, and he only joined Team Rocket so his family wouldn't have to provide for him (he could've easily stayed with his family and enjoyed his family's fortune). Jessie and Meowth can also be sympathetic characters. And just like Ash, they have also let their Pokemon go, when they felt it was for the best.

 

Lastly, notice their motto. Despite Butch and Cassidy repeatedly correcting them, they refused to change to the official Team Rocket motto. Maybe they consider the official motto too evil/dark? Or they're just convinced that theirs is the correct motto? Or they wanted to be creative?

 

Edit: Sorry for the triple post. Forums were going down for me when I was posting this.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Pegasus

[Castle Bleck 19,376]

Sometimes, yeah.

 

Especially when it was them vs. Team Plasma in the anime.

[deadprofile 1,122]

I can't consider them anti-hero's, because they have good hearts (especially James) despite who they work for.  An anti-hero seems to be someone who doesn't want to save the day and is evil, or is evil and turns out to save the day. These characters are just working for the wrong organization, and their backstory as to why further proves that they aren't bad people. They just have a job to do...and really REALLY don't know what they are doing....

[Adachi 772]

I can't consider them anti-hero's, because they have good hearts (especially James) despite who they work for.  An anti-hero seems to be someone who doesn't want to save the day and is evil, or is evil and turns out to save the day. These characters are just working for the wrong organization, and their backstory as to why further proves that they aren't bad people. They just have a job to do...and really REALLY don't know what they are doing....

Actually, one can have a good heart and still be an anti hero. Stone Cold Steve Austin, even though he was a heel, did things that made the fans want to cheer him. To me, an antihero is someone who isn't all goodie goodie, but still saves the day in the end for their own reasons. Lobo is a good example of this. He likes to destroy things, but many times, he's fought against villains (although usually only because he was paid to IIRC).

 

I think they really do want to please their boss, and they are loyal, but they're not monsters either, and would never kill anyone even if ordered to. And they still end up helping the protagonists, whether it be out of pride and not wanting another organization to do what Team Rocket couldn't, or because they still have compassion, and don't want anyone to actually be harmed or killed.

 

Even though they're technically antagonists, they have helped the protagonists many times.

[Fuzzy Bugs 89]

I remember once reading a post on Tumblr that described Team Rocket in the perfect sense. It said something along the lines of: "Team Rocket are the real heroes of the anime. They always fail at capturing Pikachu and are completely broke, but they never give up on one day making Giovanni proud of them. Team Rocket - a true inspiration!"

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

Yeah they pretty much are. They have sad back stories that make you feel sorry for them. Not to mention, they have their own rivals on their same team who is always rubbing it in there faces. Usually, they work together with Ash and company when there is a bigger threat. As a kid, I had so much sympathy for them that in some episodes, I just wanted them to successfully steal one Pokemon just so they aren't completely miserable.

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

No... Anti heros are cool and totally badass..... Team rocket is comic relief.

[Jokuc 8,174]

well I stopped to watch the anime somewhere after the season with may so I don't know about the newer episodes with dawn and everyone who came after, but from the older episodes, then yes.

[Banul 3,831]

I don't know about them being heroes, considering they're constantly trying to steal pokemon. They are, however, MY heroes.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Totally. The times when they are actually acting on the side of the angels, they are arguably more effective.

 

Also OP, Team Rocket is less of a "corporation" and more like a crime syndicate/terrorist cell.

[Sir Hugsalot 9,350]

Those three are pretty hilarious and at the same time - not entirely bad. When I was watching Pokemon and how stubborn they were to catch THAT ONE pikachu when there are thousands more EVERYWHERE I was asking myself "and what would be if they caught him?" I mean, it looks like their life is all about catching it. They catch it and life will get boring xD And I think they actually were on that good side few times. They are far less "evil" than crime syndicate they belong to. And syndicate itself does not like them. So I guess they kinda are antiheroes.

[Night Shine 767]

No... Anti hero[e]s are cool and totally badass..... Team [R]ocket is comic relief.

 

Actually, one can have a good heart and still be an anti hero. ...[t]o me, an antihero is someone who isn't all goodie goodie, but still saves the day in the end for their own reasons.

 

...And they still end up helping the protagonists, whether it be out of pride and not wanting another organization to do what Team Rocket couldn't, or because they still have compassion, and don't want anyone to actually be harmed or killed.

 

Even though they're technically antagonists, they have helped the protagonists many times.

 

I can't consider them anti-hero[es...A]n anti-hero seems to be someone who doesn't want to save the day and is evil, or is evil and turns out to save the day. These characters are just working for the wrong organization, and their backstory as to why further proves that they aren't bad people. They just have a job to do...and really REALLY don't know what they are doing....

 

 

To clear things up about who is and is not an "Anti-Hero," I will invoke TVTropes's definition and hopefully settle the issue:

 

 

 

[A]n antihero is a protagonist who has the opposite of most of the traditional attributes of a hero. (S)he may be bewildered, ineffectual, deluded, or merely apathetic. More often an antihero is just an amoral misfit. While heroes are typically conventional, anti-heroes, depending on the circumstances, may be preconventional (in a "good" society), postconventional (if the government is "evil") or even unconventional. Not to be confused with the Villain or the Big Bad, who is the opponent of Heroes (and Anti-Heroes, for that matter).

 

...There are just as many variations on Anti-Heroes as there are normal heroes. Some common attributes are: rarely speaking, being a loner, either extreme celibacy or extreme promiscuity, father issues, occasional Bad Dreams and flashbacks relating to a Dark and Troubled Past that can take many forms depending on the Anti-Hero in question; and being able to tell the story of their life through any Nick Cave song. Some won't Save the Villain, but they will Shoot the Dog, and they will not hesitate to kill anyone who threatens them.

 

Other characters may try to impress upon them the value of more traditional heroic values through The Power of Friendship, but these lessons tend to bounce more often than stick.

 

What amoral antiheroes learn, if they learn anything at all over the course of the story, is that an existence devoid of absolute values offers a lot of isolation. Which may be to their liking. Don't You Dare Pity Me! is common, and gratitude may be repulsed with Think Nothing of It (just to get them to leave him alone.)

 

Antiheroes often crop up in deconstructions of traditionally heroic genres. As the struggling, imperfect protagonist begins to gain more respect and sympathy than the impressive-but-impossible-to-relate-to invincible superhero, "anti" heroes have come to be admired as a perfectly valid type of hero in their own right.

 

Sometimes, they are not the "star" (protagonist), but serve as The Rival or Worthy Opponent of the protagonist and are prone to becoming a Ensemble Darkhorse as fans enjoy their interactions with the protagonist. If they are part of a Five-Man Band, they will most certainly be The Lancer. Well liked ones may become a Deuteragonist or at least get a Day in the Limelight to please the fans.

 

The term is used more loosely today than it used to be, at least on This Wiki. In one definition of the word, the appeal of an antihero is that he or she is often very literally a hero: Namely; he or she does heroic deeds. But whereas Superman, Wonder Woman, Hercules, and many other conventional heroes have both the physical and moral capabilities to do it, an antihero almost never has both.

 

Antiheroes are spread all over the alignment chart, tending toward Neutral types.

 

Traditionally, in literary analysis, the meaning of antihero was effectively the opposite of the now common usage, lacking the elements that make a hero "cool" rather than the elements that make them "good". Willy Loman and Shinji Ikari are archetypes of this form. 

 

 

 

Okay, that definition was confusing, and applied very little to resolving our question...but, interestingly enough, TVTropes lists the following under its "Examples: Anime and Manga" tab on the Anti-Hero page:

 

• n an episode of Pokémon...Anti Villains Jessie, James, and Meowth are disgusted by how Anti-Hero Paul mistreats his Pokemon, given the fact that they're far nicer people than he is, and they're criminals!

 

(Source: TVTropes/Main/Anti-Hero)

 

According to TVTropes, which is held often as the Wikipedia of media analysis, Team Rocket are Anti-Villains, not Anti-Heroes. Here is the definition of an Anti-Villain from TVTropes:

 

The Anti-Villain is a villain with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues...[T]heir desired ends are evil, but they are far more ethical or moral than most villains and they thus use fairly benign means to achieve it, and can be rather heroic on occasion.

 

They often reach a kind of critical mass that makes them more good than normal villains but not quite heroes, blurring the line between hero and villain the same way an Anti-Hero does, but by coming from the opposite direction. Also, they seldom perform a full Heel-Face Turn, or if they do, they continue to struggle with their villainous impulses.

 

Anti-Villain is an attempt to humanize, to lighten up, a villain as opposed to an Anti-Hero, which has a tendency to darken the hero. Side by side, it can become very hard to tell them apart. The only reason some would even be considered evil at all is because they're the Designated Villain. Despite this humanizing characterization, they are rarely less dangerous; heroes won't know what to expect when their enemy shows caring and then attacks their reputation, without giving them an excuse to rationalize killing them.

 

(Source: TVTropes/Main/Anti-Villain)

 

Now that sounds more like Team Rocket to me. I hope this cleared things up!

Edited June 5, 2014 by The Late Night Shine

[Frosty Nerd 833]

I stopped watching the anime in the middle of season 7. I'm not sure if Team Rocket are really anti-heros. They're more like good-hearted people with the wrong influence.

 

 

They just have a job to do...and really REALLY don't know what they are doing....

I agree with this. They kind of had nowhere else to go with their lives.

 

I prefer Team Rocket in the old days. Look how cool they used to be.

 

 

 

inb4 You think guns are cool? :okiedokielokie:

Edited June 5, 2014 by Frosty Nerd