I highly dislike Cadance. Who feels the same way?

[ShadOBabe 19,013]

Your definition of Mary Sue is odd.

A Mary Sue would mean she's the best at everything. You just claimed she's the weakest.

Therefore, she's not the best at everything.

 

I like Cadance fine. I had problems with her at first because her being an alicorn was completely unnecessary and I disliked her animation rig. It was put together in such a wonky way.

 

But I've since grown to accept her more. Her design looks far more presentable in hand drawn form (my medium) and while it still wasn't necessary to make her an alicorn, I quite like how the expanded material made it so that she was an ascended PEGASUS, and not just another unicorn.

 

I quite DISLIKE the idea some people have that ONLY unicorns (and also the idea that only mares) can become alicorns. What an awful message.

Edited March 20, 2015 by ShadOBabe

[veryoriginalponyname 121]

She's my least favorite pony in the whole show (at least of the ponies that are meant to be likable). She's not interesting or fun in the slightest to me.

[Castle Bleck 19,387]

But I like Princess Crystalbutt.

[Breezeoverthewater 12]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:08 PM, Yamet said:

I must have missed the episode in which it was stated that Twilight were more powerful than Starswirl the Bearded. And if she's so powerful why does she need rainbow power/elements of harmony to defeat her enemies .  Anyway, Twilight could't use the elements of harmony without the rest of the main six and she needed everyone of the other main six's keys before she could unlock rainbow power. How's that any different than Cadance needing Shining to trigger the power of love?  

It's not too different, but it's pathetic. All she had to do is to touch Shining's horn with her own and everyone is beaten. In the meantime, Twilight struggled and fought to defeat her enemies. That proves that Twilight is far stronger than this weak excuse of an alicorn.

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:14 PM, Eloquence said:

I don't think she's perfect by any means, and is probably weaker than a lot of characters, but a lot of the reasons OP gives for disliking her don't make a lot of sense to me. Let's consider her appearances in the show thus far, shall we?

 

A Canterlot Wedding - Cadance is freed from her cave-prison and defeats Chrysalis alongside Shining Armor with the power of love, very similarly to how Twilight and her friends defeat villains with the power of friendship. I found this very fitting given the themes of the show. We then see her getting along very well with the other ponies, who given that they were so friendly with evil Chrysi-Cadance, I would assume could also get along well with someone who is actually not trying to take over Equestria.

 

The Crystal Empire - Cadance is shown to be struggling to keep up a shield over the entire Empire by herself, a fitting struggle given how difficult that would be. She then uses the last of her strength and a good toss from Shining to catch the Heart as well as Spike and help him save the day.

 

Three's a Crowd - Cadance keeps upbeat and positive despite Discord's attempts at ruining her day, because she's an optimist and probably also an adrenaline junkie (just try to tell me that's not supported by this episode).

 

Given the evidence, while we could see more emotional fleshing-out for Cadance and I think that would do her some good, so far I think she's been well-balanced in terms of her power and just all-around seems like an upbeat, look on the bright side kind of mare, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I would love to see her developed further in the future, but for now I have no real issues with Pink Princess

All I'm saying that she's the weakest, most annoying and unnescessary alicorn in the show. Power of Friendship is within Twilight and her friends, now. They need no Elements or anything to trigger it. And Power of Love depends on crystal heart, not Cadance. She's useless.

[Nameless Knight 1,001]

I don't hate her, I just don't think she is fit to be an Empress, She has no political background, She was a babysitter. Heirs are usually trained all their life to rule a country, she just walked in, defeated a bad guy and took the thrown. Her Empire isn't even an Empire, it is a City-State! Why is she in charge, Twilight would be a better ruler... but she would still stink, it takes more then friends and love to rule a country.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,162]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:27 PM, Breezeoverthewater said:

 

 

All I'm saying that she's the weakest, most annoying and unnescessary alicorn in the show. Power of Friendship is within Twilight and her friends, now. They need no Elements or anything to trigger it. And Power of Love depends on crystal heart, not Cadance. She's useless.

 

But the Crystal Heart had nothing to do with the Cadence/Shining Armor effect that blew away the Changeling army in the S2 finale. I don't really get your point here.

[Breezeoverthewater 12]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:33 PM, PATHFINDERCS said:

But the Crystal Heart had nothing to do with the Cadence/Shining Armor effect that blew away the Changeling army in the S2 finale. I don't really get your point here.

I meant that bit about spreading love around Equestria. The emitter is this heart, not Cadance. She's useless, most of the time. Worthy only to be thrown, in my opinion.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,016]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:30 PM, Senatus Romanus said:

I don't hate her, I just don't think she is fit to be an Empress, She has no political background, She was a babysitter. Heirs are usually trained all their life to rule a country, she just walked in, defeated a bad guy and took the thrown. Her Empire isn't even an Empire, it is a City-State! Why is she in charge, Twilight would be a better ruler... but she would still stink, it takes more then friends and love to rule a country.

She could have been. As far as I know, we were only shown her being a sitter in her younger life; there's much about her childhood we don't know about. I think Twilight would have the least experience in ruling a country.

 

To me Canterlot Crystal Empire is somewhat equivalent to the declining Byzantine Empire or current Vatican City; perhaps was once powerful but now is a shadow of its former self.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna

[Eloquence 2,076]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:33 PM, PATHFINDERCS said:

But the Crystal Heart had nothing to do with the Cadence/Shining Armor effect that blew away the Changeling army in the S2 finale. I don't really get your point here.

 

My thoughts exactly, not to mention that the Mane Six have never been shown using their Harmony Powers without some sort of help from the Tree of Harmony. Thanks Path

 

Hey like who you like and dislike who you dislike. I'm just not sure why I'm being called back if my post isn't being responded to...

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,162]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:39 PM, Breezeoverthewater said:

I meant that bit about spreading love around Equestria. The emitter is this heart, not Cadance. She's useless, most of the time. Worthy only to be thrown, in my opinion.

 

The thing is that I don't see how Cadence is useless. Say what you will about her personality; she's likely not the most developed, or anywhere as developed as other member of royalty, but her personality is there. To like it or not is subjective; that I won't argue over.

 

However:

 

Canterlot Wedding: She was the one who freed Shining Armor from Chrysalis' control, reenergized his magic, and it was her love for him (and vice-versa) that eventually expelled the Changelings from Canterlot; and this was including a fairly supped-up Chrysalis.

 

Crystal Empire: With Shining Armor's shield spell countered (and eventually rendered inoperable) by Sombra, it was Cadence who took the burden of holden the shield over the entirety of the Crystal Empire. With the size of the shield in mind, don't forget that it was being ravaged by Sombra as well. Without Cadence it wouldn't not have meter what Twilight & Spike did as they wouldn't have had the time. Not to mention she is referred to as the "Crystal Princess" which holds a certain significance with the crystal ponies.

 

Three's A Crowd: A little more SoL, but Cadence & Twilight have a bond that is important to the both of them. Not to mention that it took both Cadence and Twilight to fight off that creature at the end of the episode.

 

Now your argument might hold merit with a number of other episodes in which she appears or plays a part in, but I think the three highlighted above show that she is far from useless.

 

Your mileage may vary though.

[Nameless Knight 1,001]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:40 PM, Tsaritsa Luna said:

She could have been. As far as I know, we were only shown her being a sitter in her younger life; there's much about her childhood we don't know about. I think Twilight would have the least experience in ruling a country.

 

To me Canterlot is somewhat equivalent to the declining Byzantine Empire or current Vatican City; perhaps was once powerful but now is a shadow of its former self.

you mean the crystal empire?

 

Yeah but she still isn't of royal birth! Unless she is the start of a new dynasty... either way She doesn't seem fit, maybe it is just me but I don't think that the Crystal Empire would last long, maybe if she was related to the former ruler before Sombra, then I would believe it.

 

A ruler has to be willing to fight for their nation, sure she has fought but I doubt she can defend her little city-state if Celestia or the griffons decided that the crystal empire would look nice under their rule.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Senatus Romanus

[Critical Mass 178]

I see her to be more of a threat than Discord.

 

But that remains to be seen.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Decanus Nexus

[ShadOBabe 19,013]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:50 PM, Senatus Romanus said:

Yeah but she still isn't of royal birth!

Who cares? Twilight isn't either.

You don't need to be blood related to past leaders to be a competent leader yourself. And Celestia had a hand in the raising of BOTH Cadance and Twilight, and both princesses are there to help and guide them when they need it. They'll be fine.

Edited March 20, 2015 by ShadOBabe

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,016]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:50 PM, Senatus Romanus said:

you mean the crystal empire?

 

Yeah but she still isn't of royal birth! Unless she is the start of a new dynasty... either way She doesn't seem fit, maybe it is just me but I don't think that the Crystal Empire would last long, maybe if she was related to the former ruler before Sombra, then I would believe it.

Wups. I meant Crystal Empire. I would assume that she would have to be royalty because she is an Alicorn and... if you're an Alicorn then you're destined to become princess. Considering that one can be upgraded to an Alicorn, I think dynasties may work differently in MLP:FIM universe? Though I'm not sure if it was ever revealed what she was responsible for before becoming the ruler of the Crystal Empire.

 

For Twilight, we know that she was just a student who became princess; was not taught about how to run country (unless she studied it but practical experience =/= knowledge on subject). We only saw Cadence for a few episodes so it's possible she actually has such experience.

[Breezeoverthewater 12]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:48 PM, PATHFINDERCS said:

The thing is that I don't see how Cadence is useless. Say what you will about her personality; she's likely not the most developed, or anywhere as developed as other member of royalty, but her personality is there. To like it or not is subjective; that I won't argue over.

 

However:

 

Canterlot Wedding: She was the one who freed Shining Armor from Chrysalis' control, reenergized his magic, and it was her love for him (and vice-versa) that eventually expelled the Changelings from Canterlot; and this was including a fairly supped-up Chrysalis.

 

Crystal Empire: With Shining Armor's shield spell countered (and eventually rendered inoperable) by Sombra, it was Cadence who took the burden of holden the shield over the entirety of the Crystal Empire. With the size of the shield in mind, don't forget that it was being ravaged by Sombra as well. Without Cadence it wouldn't not have meter what Twilight & Spike did as they wouldn't have had the time. Not to mention she is referred to as the "Crystal Princess" which holds a certain significance with the crystal ponies.

 

Three's A Crowd: A little more SoL, but Cadence & Twilight have a bond that is important to the both of them. Not to mention that it took both Cadence and Twilight to fight off that creature at the end of the episode.

 

Now your argument might hold merit with a number of other episodes in which she appears or plays a part in, but I think the three highlighted above show that she is far from useless.

 

Your mileage may vary though.

If not Twilight, she'd still be imprisonet there, crying her eyes out. 

As for the shield -- yes, she was supporting it, but ended up without energy compelitely. Any alicorn could do that, without strain. She just was like a plunger there, to clean the restroom. Anyone could do that, actually. 

Three's a Crowd -- if not her visit, none of this would have happened. She caused that creature to attack, because she arrived, and then... well, you watched it yourself.

[Frostgage 7,976]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:58 PM, Breezeoverthewater said:

As for the shield -- yes, she was supporting it, but ended up without energy compelitely. Any alicorn could do that, without strain. She just was like a plunger there, to clean the restroom. Anyone could do that, actually.

 

I'm sorry but that's complete conjecture. There's nothing wrong with disliking her, but most of the reasons you've presented feel very flimsy/cherry-picked. Most of the things you've accused her of could very easily be applied to other ponies.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Frostgage

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,016]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:58 PM, Breezeoverthewater said:

If not Twilight, she'd still be imprisonet there, crying her eyes out. 

As for the shield -- yes, she was supporting it, but ended up without energy compelitely. Any alicorn could do that, without strain. She just was like a plunger there, to clean the restroom. Anyone could do that, actually. 

Three's a Crowd -- if not her visit, none of this would have happened. She caused that creature to attack, because she arrived, and then... well, you watched it yourself.

-And then possibly die. Applies to anyone in the same situation in a weakened state.

-I'm quite certain any alicorn would eventually reach their limit and by no means would an average unicorn be able to do that. Also keep in mind that Sombra was a powerful villain. If you dislike Cadence for this, you would have to dislike Celestia for losing against Chrysalis.

-No comment on this because I have to rewatch the episode to remember what happens (which I plan to do soon).

 

It does seem like you hate her mostly for the sake of hating her.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna

[Nameless Knight 1,001]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:58 PM, Tsaritsa Luna said:

Wups. I meant Crystal Empire. I would assume that she would have to be royalty because she is an Alicorn and... if you're an Alicorn then you're destined to become princess. Considering that one can be upgraded to an Alicorn, I think dynasties may work differently in MLP:FIM universe? Though I'm not sure if it was ever revealed what she was responsible for before becoming the ruler of the Crystal Empire.

 

For Twilight, we know that she was just a student who became princess; was not taught about how to run country (unless she studied it but practical experience =/= knowledge on subject). We only saw Cadence for a few episodes so it's possible she actually has such experience.

 

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:57 PM, ShadOBabe said:

Who cares? Twilight isn't either.

You don't need to be blood related to past leaders to be a competent leader yourself. And Celestia had a hand in the raising of BOTH Cadance and Twilight, and both princesses are there to help and guide them when they need it. They'll be fine.

 

I will start with Luna:

 

Having a horn and wings does not mean you can run a country, I can grow wings and glue a ice cream cone to my head and go to Scotland, but that does not mean that they will crown me king, and I doubt it will work like that in Equestria, if it does, then they should learn that it is safer to have a relative of the former rule be the heir.

 

Next ShadO:

But Twilight was raised by Celestia for most of her life, so she might as well have been related. You want the ruler to be related because they probably will do better then someone who just took the crown because of, lets say a revolution. That is why so many revolutions fail!

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,016]

  On 2015-03-20 at 11:19 PM, Senatus Romanus said:

Having a horn and wings does not mean you can run a country, I can grow wings and glue a ice cream cone to my head and go to Scotland, but that does not mean that they will crown me king, and I doubt it will work like that in Equestria, if it does, then they should learn that it is safer to have a relative of the former rule be the heir.

That's how Equestria seems to work; you're deemed worthy if you're an alicorn. I question how effective this would be also. But this would apply more to Twilight; we don't know if Cadence actually had experience running a country previously because we have little background information on her. I don't know if she is actually suited for the position, but it's possible that she is.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna

[Breezeoverthewater 12]

  On 2015-03-20 at 11:13 PM, Frostgage said:

I'm sorry but that's complete conjecture. There's nothing wrong with disliking her, but most of the reasons you've presented feel very flimsy/cherry-picked. Most of the things you've accused her of could very easily be applied to other ponies.

I'm sorry if I gave you such impression. I hate her for solid reasons I listed above.

  On 2015-03-20 at 11:15 PM, Tsaritsa Luna said:

-And then possibly die. Applies to anyone in the same situation in a weakened state.

-I'm quite certain any alicorn would eventually reach their limit and by no means would an average unicorn be able to do that. Also keep in mind that Sombra was a powerful villain. If you dislike Cadence for this, you would have to dislike Celestia for losing against Chrysalis.

-No comment on this because I have to rewatch the episode to remember what happens (which I plan to do soon).

 

It does seem like you hate her mostly for the sake of hating her.

I'm just telling that she couldn't do nothing without Twilight. She didn't do anything to save Shining. Twilight did. She even pushed that vagon, or whatever, while Cadance was singing.

She's more like a damsel in distress, waiting for the rescue and can't do anything to protect herself.

Yes, but her limits are very... limited. Even Twilight as a unicorn was stronger. Heck, Shining was and is stronger than her.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,016]

  On 2015-03-20 at 11:25 PM, Breezeoverthewater said:

I'm sorry if I gave you such impression. I hate her for solid reasons I listed above.

I'm just telling that she couldn't do nothing without Twilight. She didn't do anything to save Shining. Twilight did. She even pushed that vagon, or whatever, while Cadance was singing.

She's more like a damsel in distress, waiting for the rescue and can't do anything to protect herself.

Yes, but her limits are very... limited. Even Twilight as a unicorn was stronger. Heck, Shining was and is stronger than her.

-Celestia couldn't save Equestria herself against Chysalis and she relied on Twilight more times than Cadence did.

-Again, she was in a weakened state; you clearly see that she's been beat up and exhausted. Same would apply to any other character, including alicorn (we saw Chrysalis defeat Celestia who is supposedly the most powerful alicorn of Equestria at that point in the series).

-Both Cadence and Shining Armor used a forcefield to shield the Crystal Empire and Canterlot respectively. The latter protected the city from... minions essentially while the former protected the city from what seems to be a powerful medieval force. Both eventually lost control of their forcefields but you only fault Cadence for eventually losing energy but not Shining.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,162]

  On 2015-03-20 at 10:58 PM, Breezeoverthewater said:

If not Twilight, she'd still be imprisonet there, crying her eyes out. 

As for the shield -- yes, she was supporting it, but ended up without energy compelitely. Any alicorn could do that, without strain. She just was like a plunger there, to clean the restroom. Anyone could do that, actually. 

Three's a Crowd -- if not her visit, none of this would have happened. She caused that creature to attack, because she arrived, and then... well, you watched it yourself.

 

Point #1: I don't see how that is relevant. If it wasn't for Twilight, her friends, and Zecora (to an extent) Celestia and Luna would've been trapped in those vines. Does that make them useless? The supped-up Chrysalis took down Celestia. Is she useless? Why does a character being taken down automatically make them useless?

 

Point #2: She wasn't supporting it; she was the source of the shield. As we see in Twilight's Kindgom alicorns do not have an infinite source of magic; there is a stopping point. Cadence, being younger and likely NOT a natural alicorn, has even less magic than the more experienced duo of Celestia & Luna. Considering all of that, plus that this is a VERY large shield that is being used to hold back a powerful unicorn king, says a lot. Saying something like "any alicorn can do that" really doesn't make a lot of sense. These are alicorns; after all.

 

Point #3: What? Cadence or no Cadence Discord was going to screw things up. I don't see how Cadence can be of any blame here.

[Breezeoverthewater 12]

  On 2015-03-20 at 11:33 PM, Tsaritsa Luna said:

-Celestia couldn't save Equestria herself against Chysalis and she relied on Twilight more times than Cadence did.

-Again, she was in a weakened state; you clearly see that she's been beat up and exhausted. Same would apply to any other character, including alicorn (we saw Chrysalis defeat Celestia who is supposedly the most powerful alicorn of Equestria at that point in the series).

-Both Cadence and Shining Armor used a forcefield to shield the Crystal Empire and Canterlot respectively. The latter protected the city from... minions essentially while the former protected the city from what seems to be a powerful medieval force. Both eventually lost control of their forcefields but you only fault Cadence for eventually losing energy but not Shining.

-Just because Chrysalis was empowered by external emitter. In honest fight, Celestia would be stronger. And yes, she relied on Twilight, but she's powerful enough to deal with it by herself.

-Even a rat in the corner fights. That just makes her worse, than a rat.

-Shining is a unicorn. And yet, he's stronger than this useless alicorn. That's my point - she's weak and useless.

 

  On 2015-03-20 at 11:34 PM, PATHFINDERCS said:

Point #1: I don't see how that is relevant. If it wasn't for Twilight, her friends, and Zecora (to an extent) Celestia and Luna would've been trapped in those vines. Does that make them useless? The supped-up Chrysalis took down Celestia. Is she useless? Why does a character being taken down automatically make them useless?

 

Point #2: She wasn't supporting it; she was the source of the shield. As we see in Twilight's Kindgom alicorns do not have an infinite source of magic; there is a stopping point. Cadence, being younger and likely NOT a natural alicorn, has even less magic than the more experienced duo of Celestia & Luna. Considering all of that, plus that this is a VERY large shield that is being used to hold back a powerful unicorn king, says a lot. Saying something like "any alicorn can do that" really doesn't make a lot of sense. These are alicorns; after all.

 

Point #3: What? Cadence or no Cadence Discord was going to screw things up. I don't see how Cadence can be of any blame here.

1) That doesn't make them useless. They rise moon and sun. They are strong enough to deal with most troubles where Cadance would just sit, sing and cry.

2)That's right. She's weaker than Celestria and Luna, and weaker than Twilight. The weakest alicorn. Even Shining, a unicorn, is stronger. She is useless.

3)Simple. If she wouldn't have arrived, Discord wouldn't ask Twilight and her to go there and find that flower, or whatever. Thus, no fight would happen. But she was too bored and that put her sister-in-law into danger. Heck, she's responsible for Twilight's near death. I'd charge her for attempted murder, if I was Celestia.

[ShadOBabe 19,013]

 

 

  On 2015-03-20 at 11:19 PM, Senatus Romanus said:

But Twilight was raised by Celestia for most of her life, so she might as well have been related. You want the ruler to be related because they probably will do better then someone who just took the crown because of, lets say a revolution. That is why so many revolutions fail!

 

That's not true at all. Democratic governments run by vote.

In the U.S. at least, it's rare for the elected leaders to be related to each other.

So your "proof" for why rulers need to be related to previous rulers is flimsy.

 

Anyway, Cadance was also taken in an taught by Celestia.

So what's your point?

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 3,016]

  On 2015-03-20 at 11:43 PM, Breezeoverthewater said:

-Just because Chrysalis was empowered by external emitter. In honest fight, Celestia would be stronger. And yes, she relied on Twilight, but she's powerful enough to deal with it by herself.

-Even a rat in the corner fights. That just makes her worse, than a rat.

-Shining is a unicorn. And yet, he's stronger than this useless alicorn. That's my point - she's weak and useless.

-You have leniency towards Celestia for being defeated by Chrysalis yet you say it's a flaw that Cadence lost to her.

-Uh... Someone who's beat up is going to be weak, thus unable to do well physically. Also, using what you said, you should be criticizing Celestia for not constantly going after Chrysalis after she was defeated because "even a rat in the corner fight" so Celestia is also worse than a rat.

-Again, she was blocking off King Sombra instead of minions. Also, she was the only one capable of creating the shield at the time (and was blocking off Sombra longer than Shining was blocking off Changelings). Shining couldn't do it, Twilight couldn't do it, Celestia and Luna stayed in Canterlot.

 

I sense a double standard towards Cadence. You excuse others' weaknesses while you call Cadence useless for having her own.