Any headcanon on Starswirl becoming Discord?

[cider float 2,539]

So this one is popular but seen it around here a bit. Starswirl becoming Discord. Enlighten me with the headcanon. Starswirl the Bearded failed the Magical Mystery Cure and ended up as Discord. He also seems to hang around the main characters around, seems to know about the Tree of Harmony and is pretty knowledgable on everything even when a stone statue.

Edited May 30, 2015 by cidershield

[Time Shield 402]

There are plenty of arguments against it.  The primary argument I see people use is that no one would be remembering Star Swirl so fondly if he had become Discord, not to mention that the sequence of events doesn't put all of Star Swirl's events pre-Discord.  And of course that you'd think Discord would mention it, or allude to it.  Finally, Star Swirl clearly had friends, while Discord stated that he has never had a friend before Fluttershy.

 

However, there's a fact that everyone seems to overlook in these discussions: Star Swirl knew time magic.  This fact alone could easily explain away all of these arguments.  If Star Swirl were to accidentally strand himself too far back in time, he would probably end up spending eons alone with no pony else around.  Imagine if it was even worse than that, and he was stranded in space with nothing around.  I don't know about you, but spending that much time in solitude like that would have two major effects on the mind.  First: insanity, explaining Discord's chaotic nature.  Second: memory loss, explaining how he himself does not even remember being Star Swirl.  After a few million years or so, he would probably not remember anything besides being Discord, which serves to explain why he never brings up the subject, and also why he doesn't remember ever having friends before.  Finally, the most obvious effect of the time travel is that it allows their two existences to overlap without needing to sort out a sequence of events for them.  Furthermore, Star Swirl would have no idea that he became Discord, so even if their paths crossed he would suspect nothing (and as previously explained, neither would Discord due to the memory loss).

 

I think time travel mechanics are fun.  Hence the username.

[Night Mist 151]

I think it could be somewhat likely. There is evidence on both sides of the argument for and against discord being star swirl. Biggest thing for me that makes me think it could be true is discord's magic and the fact that Star swirl didn't know about friendship. But at the same time I won't be crushed if its over proved wrong.

[Time Shield 402]

In any case, I hope they consider having John De Lancie voice Star Swirl (in an intentionally aged and wizened sounding voice) should he ever show up in the series.

[~ Dr. Ocsid ~ 690]

There are plenty of arguments against it.  The primary argument I see people use is that no one would be remembering Star Swirl so fondly if he had become Discord, not to mention that the sequence of events doesn't put all of Star Swirl's events pre-Discord.  And of course that you'd think Discord would mention it, or allude to it.  Finally, Star Swirl clearly had friends, while Discord stated that he has never had a friend before Fluttershy.

 

However, there's a fact that everyone seems to overlook in these discussions: Star Swirl knew time magic.  This fact alone could easily explain away all of these arguments.  If Star Swirl were to accidentally strand himself too far back in time, he would probably end up spending eons alone with no pony else around.  Imagine if it was even worse than that, and he was stranded in space with nothing around.  I don't know about you, but spending that much time in solitude like that would have two major effects on the mind.  First: insanity, explaining Discord's chaotic nature.  Second: memory loss, explaining how he himself does not even remember being Star Swirl.  After a few million years or so, he would probably not remember anything besides being Discord, which serves to explain why he never brings up the subject, and also why he doesn't remember ever having friends before.  Finally, the most obvious effect of the time travel is that it allows their two existences to overlap without needing to sort out a sequence of events for them.  Furthermore, Star Swirl would have no idea that he became Discord, so even if their paths crossed he would suspect nothing (and as previously explained, neither would Discord due to the memory loss).

 

I think time travel mechanics are fun.  Hence the username.

Aye, but then this would be possible with any time-traveling entity.

Hence my headcanon that Discord is the TARDIS.

[Time Shield 402]

Aye, but then this would be possible with any time-traveling entity.

Hence my headcanon that Discord is the TARDIS.

 

Perhaps, but we do not have proof that the TARDIS exists in Ponyville.  We do however have proof that Star Swirl knew time magic.

[~ Dr. Ocsid ~ 690]

Perhaps, but we do not have proof that the TARDIS exists in Ponyville.  We do however have proof that Star Swirl knew time magic.

Well, there is Time Turner...

you´re right.

Discord being Starswirl the Bearded really is slightly more probable than him being the TARDIS.

 

On another note, don´t you think Starswirls name sounds just epic in Latin?

Stellavolu Barbatos.

[Time Shield 402]

Well, there is Time Turner...

you´re right.

Discord being Starswirl the Bearded really is slightly more probable than him being the TARDIS.

 

On another note, don´t you think Starswirls name sounds just epic in Latin?

Stellavolu Barbatos.

 

Sounds like a city/country.  "Welcome to Stellavolu, Barbados!  Enjoy your stay!"

[~ Dr. Ocsid ~ 690]

Sounds like a city/country.  "Welcome to Stellavolu, Barbados!  Enjoy your stay!"

It will never cease to amaze me that Barbados has one of the lowest rates of beard-wearers in the world, while at the same time meaning "Land of the Bearded Ones".

[Time Shield 402]

It will never cease to amaze me that Barbados has one of the lowest rates of beard-wearers in the world, while at the same time meaning "Land of the Bearded Ones".

 

It's kind of like how ZZ Top is famous for their beards, but the only member of the band to not have a beard is the guy whose name is Beard.

 

*EDIT*  I mean, the only member to not have a long beard.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Time Shield

[~ Dr. Ocsid ~ 690]

It's kind of like how ZZ Top is famous for their beards, but the only member of the band to not have a beard is the guy whose name is Beard.

Actually had to google that. And you are right. This is funny.

Also "Barbados" can mean "Land of the Barbarians" as well as "Land of people who talk uninterpretable nonsense."

Which makes "Barbara" (quiet common over here) a pretty bad name for a woman.

That has got the same three meanings.

[UnknownFry 169]

The biggest strike against the whole idea seems to be Twilight's Kingdom as why would Discord trust Tirek in the first place if DIscord was actually Starswirl the Bearded? Also the secondary works such as the Journal of The Two Sisters and the comics also seem to suggest that Starswirl and DIscord are not one and the same. I find there are too many glaring discrepancies to support this fan theory.

 

Starswirl knew about the concept of friendship, but he did not understand it on the same level as Twilight did.

[Gestum 2,493]

The thing that I don't get with this head cannon is how he became Discord.  It can't be because of that "Magical Mystery Cure" spell because nothing happened with Twilight when she used it. And there's no real evidence that Starswirl used the spell himself. 

[MAIKUN 262]

I don't get it either too. Discord and Starswirl the Bearded are TWO different characters on this show! This is why I am being confused right about now. I just don't get it! Right?

Edited May 31, 2015 by MAIKUN

[Time Shield 402]

I don't get it either too. Discord and Starswirl the Bearded are TWO different characters on this show! This is why I am being confused right about now. I just don't get it! Right?

 

Read my post up top for one theory.

[Attack of the Pwns 894]

At first I read this title as Starlight (as in Starlight Glimmer) becoming Discord and I was all WTH!

 

Interesting theory, but unfortunately (or fortunately) I doubt if canon ever gets around to denying or supporting this.

[Conred 274]

Is old fan theory and it is not possible anymore. Discord was cast in stone when Tirek and Scorpan appeared. And since Scorpan befriended Starswirl then he couldn't be Discord at the same time. I think no one is supporting this theory anymore.

 

 

Also:

Starswirl didn't understand the friendship as much as Twilight but he was still friends with Celestia, Luna and Scorpan. It was just too little to become an Alicorn/finish MMC spell.

 

Discord didn't understand friendship AT ALL. Fluttershy became his first ever friend.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Conred

[Time Shield 402]

Is old fan theory and it is not possible anymore. Discord was cast in stone when Tirek and Scorpan appeared. And since Scorpan befriended Starswirl then he couldn't be Discord at the same time. I think no one is supporting this theory anymore.

 

C'mon, is anyone even READING my post?

[Conred 274]

C'mon, is anyone even READING my post?

I have read it and it has no sense. Traveling in time doesn't mean that he can't age. He would still die from old age no matter if he travel into the past or future. If time travel would affect his body then he would dissappear if he traveled too early or too far into the future and past

[Time Shield 402]

I have read it and it has no sense. Traveling in time doesn't mean that he can't age. He would still die from old age no matter if he travel into the past or future. If time travel would affect his body then he would dissappear if he traveled too early or too far into the future and past

 

In what time travel model has anyone ever changed their age based on where they are relative to their own timeline?

 

Anyway, it sounds more like you're arguing whether anypony could become Discord.  As in, if any amount of magical meddling could result in someone not only ending up with tremendous power, but also being able to live a very, very long time as Discord clearly has.  For the purposes of this theory, we're assuming that somepony could do that.  The theory is more focused around how Star Swirl specifically could.

 

tl;dr:  If Discord ever was a pony before becoming Discord, Star Swirl is the most likely to be that pony.

[Conred 274]

In what time travel model has anyone ever changed their age based on where they are relative to their own timeline?

 

Anyway, it sounds more like you're arguing whether anypony could become Discord.  As in, if any amount of magical meddling could result in someone not only ending up with tremendous power, but also being able to live a very, very long time as Discord clearly has.  For the purposes of this theory, we're assuming that somepony could do that.  The theory is more focused around how Star Swirl specifically could.

 

tl;dr:  If Discord ever was a pony before becoming Discord, Star Swirl is the most likely to be that pony.

There is too much "if" in this headcanon to consider it. We can literally invent anything and for example say that Starswirl turned to Smooze or Tree Harmony created Discord. There is no evidence to support it and too much evidence against Starswirl/Discord to even discuss the possibility. Starswirl isn't even related to chaos magic nor he ever was. Just beause he was talented in magic is literally the only thing that connect them at the moment. Soon Twilight will become as powerfull as him and it doesn't mean that she will turn into Draconequus. Not to mentnion that Discord rememebr his past very well, like "going to College with Smooze". So that theory have more holes than swiss cheese

[Time Shield 402]

There is too much "if" in this headcanon to consider it. We can literally invent anything and for example say that Starswirl turned to Smooze or Tree Harmony created Discord. There is no evidence to support it and too much evidence against Starswirl/Discord to even discuss the possibility. Starswirl isn't even related to chaos magic nor he ever was. Just beause he was talented in magic is literally the only thing that connect them at the moment. Soon Twilight will become as powerfull as him and it doesn't mean that she will turn into Draconequus. Not to mentnion that Discord rememebr his past very well, like "going to College with Smooze". So that theory have more holes than swiss cheese

 

Most of that isn't proof against it:

1. "Starswirl isn't even related to chaos magic nor he ever was. Just because he was talented in magic is literally the only thing that connect them at the moment."  The key word there being "at the moment".  Twilight learns new spells all the time, and that was only over at most a two year period that we've seen.  Star Swirl spent much longer than that, and we know very little about what kind of magic he did over his lifetime, barring a few specific examples.  So saying that he wasn't capable of it is false, unless you can cite something specific where it said he was incapable of it.
2. "Soon Twilight will become as powerful as him and it doesn't mean that she will turn into Draconequus."  Three problems with this.  First, where does it say that every spellcaster will advance along the same lines?  Just because they're both powerful it doesn't mean they'll both make the same mistakes.  Second, we still don't know exactly how powerful Star Swirl eventually became, so saying that Twilight will become as powerful as him is also only an assumption.  Third (and I know this one's a stretch, but you brought it up, not me), who's to say if Twilight were to dabble in the wrong magic she wouldn't turn into a Draconequus?  Saying she won't is technically making a huge assumption as well.
3. "Not to mention that Discord remember his past very well, like "going to college with Smooze"."  First of all, he was clearly lying during that whole segment to try and fabricate a false friendship with the Smooze.  He said multiple times that Smooze was a friend, only to treat him multiple times as nothing of the sort when he didn't think Fluttershy was listening.  But let's just say for the sake of argument that he wasn't lying and that the Smooze was his friend.  That actually acts as proof of his fallible memory, since he said previously that he "never really had a friend" before Fluttershy.  In any case, whether or not any of that is true or false, we're talking about events that took place centuries ago, while in my time travel model, he could be much older than that.  Remembering something that took place centuries ago compared to something that potentially happened millions of years ago is vastly different.

All I'm saying in my theory is the following points:

1. Given: Magic exists that allow for very, very long lifespans, as shown by Celestia, Luna and Discord himself.
2. Given: Unicorns can learn a lot of magic in a short period of time, as shown by Twilight and, to a lesser extent, other unicorns we've seen that use advanced spells (many of them were young like Twilight).
3. Given: Star Swirl knew time magic, as shown in "It's About Time".
4. Given: Star Swirl created over 200 spells, as explained in "Luna Eclipsed", meaning that he was practiced in creating new magic.
5. Postulate: Star Swirl was considered a particularly powerful spellcaster, and even if Twilight is a faster learner or has more "raw abilities" (as Celestia said), they can still be considered at least comparable in their learning capabilities.
6. Postulate: With enough time, memory is fallible; with even more time it can be completely forgotten.
7. Therefore: If Star Swirl used his time magic to go far enough back in time, he could potentially spend long enough not only to develop whatever spells were necessary to become Discord, but also have enough time to forget who he originally was.

I'm citing specific examples here.  If you have proof against any of these points, please cite a specific example as well.  Otherwise, at least concede that the possibility exists.

[LeonShi500 155]

I think that it's something that will never clearly be determined as true or false by the show and will always be up to interpretation by the fans. I think that he is Star Swirl but I can understand the arguments that people use against that idea. There's so much support both for and against the idea, so I guess we'll probably never know for sure.

 

Discord is such a wacky and uncertain character. Who knows what is true about his past. Everything not confirmed by another character could either be a lie, joke, or a deception to try and hide his past.

[Conred 274]

Most of that isn't proof against it:

1. "Starswirl isn't even related to chaos magic nor he ever was. Just because he was talented in magic is literally the only thing that connect them at the moment."  The key word there being "at the moment".  Twilight learns new spells all the time, and that was only over at most a two year period that we've seen.  Star Swirl spent much longer than that, and we know very little about what kind of magic he did over his lifetime, barring a few specific examples.  So saying that he wasn't capable of it is false, unless you can cite something specific where it said he was incapable of it.
2. "Soon Twilight will become as powerful as him and it doesn't mean that she will turn into Draconequus."  Three problems with this.  First, where does it say that every spellcaster will advance along the same lines?  Just because they're both powerful it doesn't mean they'll both make the same mistakes.  Second, we still don't know exactly how powerful Star Swirl eventually became, so saying that Twilight will become as powerful as him is also only an assumption.  Third (and I know this one's a stretch, but you brought it up, not me), who's to say if Twilight were to dabble in the wrong magic she wouldn't turn into a Draconequus?  Saying she won't is technically making a huge assumption as well.
3. "Not to mention that Discord remember his past very well, like "going to college with Smooze"."  First of all, he was clearly lying during that whole segment to try and fabricate a false friendship with the Smooze.  He said multiple times that Smooze was a friend, only to treat him multiple times as nothing of the sort when he didn't think Fluttershy was listening.  But let's just say for the sake of argument that he wasn't lying and that the Smooze was his friend.  That actually acts as proof of his fallible memory, since he said previously that he "never really had a friend" before Fluttershy.  In any case, whether or not any of that is true or false, we're talking about events that took place centuries ago, while in my time travel model, he could be much older than that.  Remembering something that took place centuries ago compared to something that potentially happened millions of years ago is vastly different.

All I'm saying in my theory is the following points:

1. Given: Magic exists that allow for very, very long lifespans, as shown by Celestia, Luna and Discord himself.
2. Given: Unicorns can learn a lot of magic in a short period of time, as shown by Twilight and, to a lesser extent, other unicorns we've seen that use advanced spells (many of them were young like Twilight).
3. Given: Star Swirl knew time magic, as shown in "It's About Time".
4. Given: Star Swirl created over 200 spells, as explained in "Luna Eclipsed", meaning that he was practiced in creating new magic.
5. Postulate: Star Swirl was considered a particularly powerful spellcaster, and even if Twilight is a faster learner or has more "raw abilities" (as Celestia said), they can still be considered at least comparable in their learning capabilities.
6. Postulate: With enough time, memory is fallible; with even more time it can be completely forgotten.
7. Therefore: If Star Swirl used his time magic to go far enough back in time, he could potentially spend long enough not only to develop whatever spells were necessary to become Discord, but also have enough time to forget who he originally was.

I'm citing specific examples here.  If you have proof against any of these points, please cite a specific example as well.  Otherwise, at least concede that the possibility exists.

Starswirl was present and fine 1000 years ago and we don't even know if he is missing or he is dead. Discord was in college before he was turned to stone maybe evenhundreds or thousands of years before Celestia and Starswirl united 3 pony tribes. Starswirl befriended Scorpan after he was turned to stone. There is no possiblity whatsoever that Starswirl would happen to become Discord then travel back into past and get himself turned to stone by Celestia and himself.

[Time Shield 402]

Starswirl was present and fine 1000 years ago and we don't even know if he is missing or he is dead. Discord was in college before he was turned to stone maybe evenhundreds or thousands of years before Celestia and Starswirl united 3 pony tribes. Starswirl befriended Scorpan after he was turned to stone. There is no possiblity whatsoever that Starswirl would happen to become Discord then travel back into past and get himself turned to stone by Celestia and himself.

 

Once again, did you even read my first post?  My theory is that he traveled back first, and then became Discord, after which the timelines of the two could overlap without either of them knowing the other.  That accounts for Discord being around long before Star Swirl, and Star Swirl being present while Discord was turned to stone.  Basically the chronological events could go like this:

1. Star Swirl appears in the distant past.
2. Star Swirl becomes Discord.
3. A lot of time passes.
4. Star Swirl is born.
5. Star Swirl becomes a great wizard.
6. Discord is turned to stone.
7. Star Swirl makes the jump back to #1.

So once again, you still haven't provided something that specifically disproves it.

 

I think the problem here is that you think I'm trying to prove it's true; I'm not.  All I'm trying to prove is that the possibility exists.  You, on the other hand, are claiming that it can't exist, which requires concrete proof.