Does MLP:FiM seem "wrong", compared to past MLP generations?

[ManaMinori 4,146]

Maybe not "wrong", exactly, but I guess....off? Don't get me wrong, I like MLP:FiM, and the time spent merch hunting, collecting, and thinking about Gen 4, coming up with theories and OC'S proves it. But, I guess I never really stopped, stepped back, and really took notice of how far Gen 4 is from past incarnations of pony.

 

While it's a good thing that some aspects of G4 are so far removed from past gens, such as storytelling, characterization, design and animation, voice acting, etc. In other ways, FiM being so far removed from past generations is somewhat concerning.

 

While looking through posts on another pony board, I found one in particular that resonated with me:

 

Friendship is Magic has been in decline ever since Season 3 started. The real appeal of the show not that it was the coolest show, or the funniest show, or the greatest show; but rather a show that got intangibles right. It had a wit and charm to it that made it, it's characters, and it's world endearing. That's why Williams episodes were so jarring in Season 2 because she was never able to get that and her episodes stuck out like soar thumbs for their mean-spirited humor and characters in an otherwise lighthearted show.

 

Then, a perfect storm of three factors occurred at the beginning of Season 3. The staff's awareness of the bronies was present in every step of production including writing. Meghan McCarthy took over as story editor, and Hasbro decided mutating the Mane 6 in the premiers and finales was going to be their way to advertise their new versions.

 

McCarthy taking over and the awareness of bronies combined to radically change the feel of the show. McCarthy has been enraptured by bronies and the idolization they piled on her and her fellow staff. They started writing more for the bronies and less for the intended audience, only bronies have terrible senses of taste for just about everything and catering to them specifically leads to making garbage. So much of what made the show endearing was lost. The show's approach to humor, which been you don't need to tell best joke just a joke told in the best way possible, was replaced by internet memes and references to prove how hip they are. The characters became flatter and louder in terms of personality, overemphasizing their traits bronies refer to the most. Thrown in Hasbro's demands, and you had a mess on their hands.

 

And it's sadly continued into Season 5. After a promising premier, we had not really solving the uncomfortably obvious aesthetic issues with Twilight's castle, two CMC episodes (one of which really muddied the water when it comes to cutie marks and why they're still blank flanks), Rainbow Dash being a shortsighted and stupid vandal because she didn't want to be without her pet for a few months, the Discord episode which was great clip fodder but a little overwhelming when watched as an episode (though it does have the best line the entire series), griffons who will literally leave you to die if you can't pay them to save your life, that thing, another Spike screws everything up episode, and yaks smash.

 

The latest episode was really good, like perhaps the best episode of the series good. However, even shows circling the drain can but out some of their best work towards the end. The Star Trek Next GEneration finale was one of the best episodes of its entire run, but that did not make the 7th season seem any less like that one season too many.

 

The show is in decline, but the saddest part it really shouldn't be. It is because the staff have lost sight their purpose and are instead chasing the "pretty, pretty; shiny, shiny" that is the brony community.

Source: http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,371049.0.html?PHPSESSID=chot6reorg0vu0c8chmkauc612

 

Now, I don’t agree with every point brought out, but admittedly, the line about MLP:FiM being all internet meme-y is concerning for me. (Though that is FAR from the only issue concerning me. But for the sake of shortening the op, to some extent, i won't get into the other issues) Memes weren't a thing in gens 1-3, and I guess the fictional world that was established in them truly felt fictional, like they were the ponies own, fantasy world. However, with G4, it feels like the pony world is disconnected from it's past. Like their fictional world isn't really so fictional and made for escapism, but because of all the memes and homages, it's like looking into a mildly fantasy themed version of our own world, which puts a damper on my getting into MLP for the escapism. And kills the creativity of the show, itself. I'd like to see MLP stand on its own legs, as past gens have done, without the crutch of pop culture references and memes.

 

Is that too much to ask, or expect, from professional writers who can tap into their on creativity, and bring back that fantasy world feel, again?

 

But how do others feel about this?

Edited September 29, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Nightmare Muffin,

 

Couldn't agree less! For one thing, of course there are more internet memes, the internet as we understand it didn't exist in Gen's 1-3. That quoted person makes some good observations but I don't see those as bad things nor do I think the creators have lost sight of the original intent. They throw in our treats and "Slice of Life" was one Hell of a treat, but the show would be telling the same stories and teaching the same lessons without us.

 

Second of all, Equestria is NOT the real world with a fantasy coating. You want to talk that? How about Gen 1 which was called "Ponyland" a rather simplistic name don't you think? That apparently existed alongside Earth with such proximity that the human Megan was the true main character not the ponies themselves.

 

Gen 2 dropped the human element entirely . . . along with the fantasy. Gen 2 didn't take place in anything but what looked like a modern city and the only fantastical bit was that it was inhabited by talking ponies, not even any unicorn magic, just walking, talking, ponies that were otherwise human.

 

Gen 3 was just terrible all around even if it brought back the fantasy elements, but even then they weren't like in Gen 1 where they actually had some teeth like Tirek or Catrrina.

 

Speaking of whom, you said there was no connection to it's heritage? Who was the first real bad guy of the franchise? 

 

 

And who was brought back recently as a one Hell of a season finale bad guy?

 

 

Among other connections to past generations were:

 

-The Breezies, which also had influence from the G3 Flutter ponies

 

-The Smooze in a far less scary role than original.

 

-Half the names, designs, or personalities of the Mane Six including Rainbow Dash, Twilight, Posey, Applejack, Sparkler, and Surprise.

 

Overall, Equestria stands as a marvel of world building. By keeping humans absent and letting the fantasy elements run wild, it can easily fly back and forth between slice of life friendship problems like "Look Before you Sleep" and heroic fantasy action like "Daring Don't." Because there are no humans in this world, the viewer is forced to see the ponies as us. That's why we identify with the Mane Six so strongly, we can see the aspects about them in people that we know in real life.

 

However, the world is still thoroughly established as not our world, the countries are different, magic is real, there are various sentient life forms, many creatures of various mythologies exist, and the closest place to our world that we've seen is a different world only accessible through a magic portal.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Steel Accord

[ManaMinori 4,146]

@@Nightmare Muffin,

 

Couldn't agree less! For one thing, -snip-

as I said, it just seems like MLP shouldn't be the type of series that showcase "Meme theater". I just felt that it was more true to keeping fantasy as such, in the past, and not trying to pack our world's pop culture shoutouts in at every opportunity. It kills the creativity, and makes Equestria feel too much like the world people like me seek escapism from. That, amongst other things.....

 

And can you NOT put words in my mouth? I didn't say that gen 4 had no connection t to past gens, now did I? All I said was that 4 was far removed from 1, 2, and 3, in some areas, but not in others. I'm well aware of some of the pony and villain next gen transport.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[FlitterFlutter 1,589]

I have to say I disagree with this whole thing, now there is change from season 3-5 and hell even 1-2. However change is a VERY good thing when it comes to a weekly (for the most part) TV show. I mean how can you expect them to just keep doing the same thing over and over.

Now on to your point about the writers and creativity, i think this comes down to preference, because to me I have seen more creativity in season 5 then anything season 1 had to offer. Think of it this way season 1 was simple (not bad) just simple in very way, even the animation was simple. Now we are getting epic battles like in the season 4 wrap up, or interesting perspectives on death like in "Tanks, for the memories", hell even social commentary like in the season 5 opener. But I guess it really just comes down to perspective, and what you prefer. Because i will agree that it is quite different then what it started as....But i think this way is better. 

[Mistral 36]

I would like to add my 2 coins in this if I may.

You hafta look back at the first MLP's and think how kinda different things/life was then. And how it is now.

I'll be short and sweet.

I've watched a few MLP movies and they are kinda different than FIM but only in minute ways.

The main concept of friendship and how to keep it is there.... the way it was gone about was different... but all in all.... no matter if it's G1 or G5... it's still very important!

[Steel Accord 6,660]

as I said, it just seems like MLP shouldn't be the type of series that showcase "Meme theater". I just felt that it was more true to keeping fantasy as such, in the past, and not trying to pack our world's pop culture shoutouts in at every opportunity. It kills the creativity, and makes Equestria feel too much like the world people like me seek escapism from. That, amongst other things.....

 

And can you NOT put words in my mouth? I didn't say that gen 4 had no connection t to past gens, now did I? All I said was that 4 was far removed from 1, 2, and 3, in some areas, but not in others. I'm well aware of some of the pony and villain next gen transport.

 

Oh you mean like how the original G1 show was filled with eighties pop cultural canon and rhetoric? 

 

Zeb's clothing style.

 

Or the "big brother ponies" like Quarterback and Slugger who were athlete archetypes typical of young men of the era? 

 

Or basically the entire setting of G2 which reflected the eighties regurgitating the look and feel of the fifties that was again contemporary in children's animation at the time?

 

 

(Speaking of which, take a look at that intro and tell me FiM is the one that hews closer to Earth.)

 

In contrast, when Equestria does crip a real world location for inspiration, such as Manehatten, it creates a timeless feel of what that location is like rather than modeling it as it contemporarily exists. Manehatten ponies talk with a variety of New York accents, dress in clothes both modern, twenties, and sixties, and yet the Time Square equivalent is as it appears now.

 

This is also taking place in the same world that has a frontier town only recently settled and a floating city made out of clouds. It's a fantasy world, one that takes some cues from our own but then exaggerates them to fit itself.

 

You know what is notably missing though? Computers. Internet culture as we experience it now doesn't exist in their world. Hell Twilight couldn't figure out how to use a computer when she first saw one. So despite Equestria's technology being almost modern in some places, including a Hydro-electric dam in Ponyville, they don't have the means to use the memes you fear so much. So why is that even a problem?

 

To confirm, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, I was demonstrating that connection you call loose is either loose on purpose or stronger than you think.

[Mistral 36]

Thanks for that clarification Steel, and for the brohoof.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Thanks for that clarification Steel, and for the brohoof.

 

What clarification are you referring to exactly?

[Goat-kun 2,530]

A show from a certain period reflects it in its humor. I'll take memes over Twilightizzle and Friendship is Dope any day. Peace!

 

However, I do agree that MLP has no world of its own and is hard to use for escapism when there’s nowhere to escape to, it’s all human world but with ponies. Anything interesting is quickly shoved into a corner and left to rot like those poor sods in Griffonstone. But that has nothing to do with modern humor.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

A show from a certain period reflects it in its humor. I'll take memes over Twilightizzle and Friendship is Dope any day. Peace!

 

However, I do agree that MLP has no world of its own and is hard to use for escapism when there’s nowhere to escape to, it’s all human world but with ponies. Anything interesting is quickly shoved into a corner and left to rot like those poor sods in Griffonstone. But that has nothing to do with modern humor.

 

Again, I call upon G2 as an example of why I don't that assertion holds water.

 

 

Whereas Equestria has the Running of the Leaves, Winter Wrap Up, Cloudsdale, the ancient Three Pony Tribes, idyllic small town life (Ponyville), idyllic big city life (Canterlot), airships, the Summer Sun Celebration, Changelings, Dragons, books you can magically enter, and more.

 

Honestly, does a fantasy world have to be so truly alien as to resemble Ian Banks' the Culture before it's called "escapist?" Tolkien created Middle-Earth as escapist fiction and it bears many resemblances to our world. Moreso because Tolkien's original intent was that it DID take place in our world just the ancient past.

 

Equestria doesn't even make that concession. It is not connected to Earth, fan theories of post apocalypse notwithstanding, a world of sentient equines all of whom can use magic to one degree or another.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

Not at all. That this show has a few memes in it for laughs (being good or bad is a matter of preference, because nothing is more subjective then comedy) is just a sign of the times. The original series and Tales had alot of 80s popculture jokes in it and if we look back at some of the other cartoon shows of that time, it really wasn't any different in that depature.

 

If you want to go into a fantasy world, that is free of all that stuff, read the Fantasy stuff from J.R.R Tolkien or Lloyd Alexander.

[Guest]

My Little Memes: References are Magic.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

I see it as a thing of the time. I've noticed that a lot of cartoons today, while good and can do some amazing storytelling, also contain some meme-like art style or some meme-like episodes. It's similar to how in the 90s when people wanted to do a Ren and Stimpy style or how the 80s was just make everyone into a cartoon. 

 

This is something that only bothers me a little seeing as it's so small, I can usually overlook it. Heck, even some or my other favorite current cartoons like Gravity Falls and Star Vs. The Forces of evil can fall into the meme-style.

[Manman20x6 359]

I agree that writing with bronies in mind is a bad thing most of the time. Most of their attempts to shoehorn in a fandom reference come off as shallow pandering.

 

For example, the opening scene of "Slice of Life": the entirety of the "joke" is that Derpy says "Muffin". If you're not a brony, you won't get the joke there, and if you are, you've already seen dozens of better "Derpy likes muffins" jokes in fan-made content.

 

I would prefer it if they just focused on making a kid's show good enough for adults to enjoy it too, rather than awkwardly try to appeal to both crowds.

[Goat-kun 2,530]

Again, I call upon G2 as an example of why I don't that assertion holds water.

 

Whereas Equestria has the Running of the Leaves, Winter Wrap Up, Cloudsdale, the ancient Three Pony Tribes, idyllic small town life (Ponyville), idyllic big city life (Canterlot), airships, the Summer Sun Celebration, Changelings, Dragons, books you can magically enter, and more.

 

Honestly, does a fantasy world have to be so truly alien as to resemble Ian Banks' the Culture before it's called "escapist?" Tolkien created Middle-Earth as escapist fiction and it bears many resemblances to our world. Moreso because Tolkien's original intent was that it DID take place in our world just the ancient past.

 

Equestria doesn't even make that concession. It is not connected to Earth, fan theories of post apocalypse notwithstanding, a world of sentient equines all of whom can use magic to one degree or another.

You misunderstood. My beef with it is that a functioning fantasy world like Arda obeys Tolkien’s own rules and all beings within can do everything in accordance with their limitations and motives.

 

We enter Equestria + miscellaneous: an illusion of a world where everything that is required for an episode’s plot to function shall be provided in and often just for said episode. Non-ponies, places, artifacts: many are not in the show because of some hidden lore; they are there just to provide a problem and wow effect. Now I don’t want them to explain everything in Tolkien-like detail, but in a place where things that need to happen will happen just because they need to happen and not because of an IP’s ruleset, then the setting you created is not a fantasy world but a simple wooden stage for your characters that can be altered as easily as changing the salinity of your tomato sauce. Enters the fanon!

[Steel Accord 6,660]

You misunderstood. My beef with it is that a functioning fantasy world like Arda obeys Tolkien’s own rules and all beings within can do everything in accordance with their limitations and motives.

 

We enter Equestria + miscellaneous: an illusion of a world where everything that is required for an episode’s plot to function shall be provided in and often just for said episode. Non-ponies, places, artifacts: many are not in the show because of some hidden lore; they are there just to provide a problem and wow effect. Now I don’t want them to explain everything in Tolkien-like detail, but in a place where things that need to happen will happen just because they need to happen and not because of an IP’s ruleset, then the setting you created is not a fantasy world but a simple wooden stage for your characters that can be altered as easily as changing the salinity of your tomato sauce. Enters the fanon!

 

But the fanon fleshes out the elements the show seems to pull from nowhere. How many versions of the Griffons' lands were written before the actual episode featured it? How about how many featured the Elements of Harmony having some power that linked them to the more abstract ideals they represented before they were tied organically to the Tree of Harmony? How many comics and fanfics featured a revenge seeking Trixie before that was an actual thing?

 

If anything, it's the actual staff writers that have created a "stage" and the bronies that created a more holistic world. I would argue though that you're not giving them enough credit. Nothing has appeared on the show that actually flies in the face of the established rules. That Pinkie Pie has "magic" but in a way unlike others is a plot point for an episode and she's the exception that proves the rule.

 

-Pegasi walk on clouds - Scootaloo clings to one in a moment of fright.

 

-Luna can enter dreams as the Princess of the Night - she can dive into memories to prove a point.

 

-Cutie marks appear to tell a pony their destiny - it's possible a pony could misinterpret what it meant.

 

All established rules that are explored in logical manners and not contradicted without explanation as to how. Not so detailed as to be Tolkien-esque but rather more like Fury Road. "Just because there's no details doesn't mean there's no answers."

Edited September 29, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Goat-kun 2,530]

But the fanon fleshes out the elements the show seems to pull from nowhere. How many versions of the Griffons' lands were written before the actual episode featured it? How about how many featured the Elements of Harmony having some power that linked them to the more abstract ideals they represented before they were tied organically to the Tree of Harmony? How many comics and fanfics featured a revenge seeking Trixie before that was an actual thing?

 

If anything, it's the actual staff writers that have created a "stage" and the bronies that created a more holistic world. I would argue though that you're not giving them enough credit. Nothing has appeared on the show that actually flies in the face of the established rules. That Pinkie Pie has "magic" but in a way unlike others is a plot point for an episode and she's the exception that proves the rule.

 

-Pegasi walk on clouds - Scootaloo clings to one in a moment of fright.

 

-Luna can enter dreams as the Princess of the Night - she can dive into memories to prove a point.

 

-Cutie marks appear to tell a pony their destiny - it's possible a pony could misinterpret what it meant.

 

All established rules that are explored in logical manners and not contradicted without explanation as to how. Not so detailed as to be Tolkien-esque but rather more like Fury Road. "Just because there's no details doesn't mean there's no answers."

I think you misunderstood me yet again: I wasn’t talking about fanon but canon. Fans are immersing themselves in their own versions, but this is true for any fandom out there, and for the writers to create this stage is not an achievement in any way shape or form. Even Starcraft II writers have managed to do that and you see no one congratulating them on that.

 

Mad Max works because human world needs no introduction. As far as the MLP rules are concerned: nothing goes against the rules because there are no rules to begin with. What you described are indeed necessary traits that came with individuals and ponies, but a fantasy world needs so much more than a few quirks that can and will be retconned or contradicted if the need arises.

 

Well, let us test this whole thing:

-Griffons have no cutie marks or pony magic. Griffons can fly and walk on clouds. Why? According to the ruleset we established, they should be more like walking chickens. Or is it that the whole cutie mark thing is not important. What about dragons or manticores? Birds? Why is it that the pegasi are the only ones handicapped by pony magic?

-How come such an important thing as a cutie mark can be so easily purged from somepony’s flank and why does it matter more than ponies’ internal tendencies? Some ponies are unhappy with their own destiny? Is that a thing? How do such ponies even obtain cutie marks?

-Where on the map was Yakyakistan?

-Orthros is a monster dog breed. Are cerberi also a breed? Why?

-Mare in the moon? Mare on the moon?

-Why are constellations squatting in a cave?

-Chaos magic, how does it work?

-Why are all the tools unfriendly to ponies?

-Geocentric or heliocentric?

 

Whelp, only fanon and “it’s a kid show” can help me understand these things, and frankly, I don’t really care. But to say this is a tried and true magical world with lore-related explanations is a longshot and an insult to those writers that actually construct such worlds. Note that this is not an attack on the show but a jab at those who think it’s bigger than it truly is. Don’t’ worry, you are still free to enjoy it.

[AmberDust 1,118]

 

 

I'd like to see MLP stand on its own legs, as past gens have done, without the crutch of pop culture references and memes.

In the words of Azrael, from Reper Man...

 

 

YES.

 

 

Now, I like the show, even season 5. That's why I'm on these forums. What I don't like the brony culture's influence on the show, and how its beginning to warp it. These references don't add anything to the show, in my opinion, and are becoming obtrusive. I liked it best when the brony community would be acknowledged in little nods and winks through hidden Derpys and other such things, but didn't dominate the show...I mean, can you imagine what it must have been like for little kids to watch "Slice of Life"? I know that episode was mostly done jokingly, but still...it felt like too much. Even as a joke, it was  just too much. 

That being said, I think "Slice of Life" acted as a sort of sacrificial lamb, created to appease bronies, and will be the only one of its kind. 

[Steel Accord 6,660]

To take on each of those with no fanon and can only be inferred from show context . . .

 

 

 

-Griffons have no cutie marks or pony magic. Griffons can fly and walk on clouds. Why? According to the ruleset we established, they should be more like walking chickens. Or is it that the whole cutie mark thing is not important. What about dragons or manticores? Birds? Why is it that the pegasi are the only ones handicapped by pony magic?

 

I'm not sure if you are using the term "handicapped" correctly as pegasi seem pretty damn capable with their magic. Anyway we saw in Fluttershy's song that all winged creatures can reside upon clouds in this world, but we haven't seen Griffons mold them the same way the pegasi have, so their actual control of the weather must be unique to them.

 

 

 

-How come such an important thing as a cutie mark can be so easily purged from somepony’s flank and why does it matter more than ponies’ internal tendencies? Some ponies are unhappy with their own destiny? Is that a thing? How do such ponies even obtain cutie marks?

 

From what we've seen the cutie-mark IS the pony's internal tendencies. That's the point, it's a visual indicator saying "this is what you are the best at doing and what makes you an individual." We've seen Troublehooves, a pony unhappy with his destiny but in truth, he was looking at his cutie mark the wrong way and only needed a change of mindset to turn his life around. How do they get it? It's established as early as season one that a pony gets it fairly young and when they finally reach a point of self-actualization.

 

Further evidence of this is in the CMC. Applebloom's engineering, Sweetie's singing, and Scootaloo's athletics. All things they can do really well, and like doing but have not reached the maturity level of realizing their own passions in favor of the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach.

 

 

 

-Where on the map was Yakyakistan?

 

 

What a nation can't be uncharted and only recently made contact? Why else would they send a diplomatic envoy to open relations?

 

 

 

-Orthros is a monster dog breed. Are cerberi also a breed? Why?

 

From the context of it being sold like a pet, admittedly one with a big responsibility contract like a more exotic animal, it can be inferred that an orthros is merely your run of the mill Equestrian monstrosity where Cerberus, given his inherited position as guardian of the gates to the Underworld and having almost the exact same job here, is unique. 

 

 

 

-Mare in the moon? Mare on the moon?

 

Not sure what you are asking here.

 

 

 

-Why are constellations squatting in a cave?

 

I assume you mean the Ursa Major and Minor. From what we see, they appear to be another form of Equestria monster, and a particularly fierce one at that. Given though that, unlike Cerberus who has a specific job and dragons who are clearly intelligent beings, Ursa appear to take the role of a very powerful and dangerous but still feral beast.

 

 

 

-Chaos magic, how does it work?

 

 

From what we see of Discord's abilities, it mainly seems to work by distortion; be it gravity, physics, shapes, minds, etc. Exactly what and how seems to be up to him.

 

 

 

-Why are all the tools unfriendly to ponies?

 

If you mean by why so many seem to be designed with hands in mind, the ponies have clearly built this world, it wasn't made for them by robots or something and we have seen ponies use hand tools in their hooves and mouths before. So the tools are quite friendly to them.

 

Willing suspension of disbelief beyond that, which luckily I can extend.

 

 

 

-Geocentric or heliocentric?

 

We haven't seen the planet from orbit so it's difficult to say for certain, but unless we do, the show established that Celestia does indeed raise the sun, so presumably geocentric.

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ 

 

There, all stuff from the show's context in a simple connect the dots.

 

 

 

But to say this is a tried and true magical world with lore-related explanations is a longshot and an insult to those writers that actually construct such worlds. Note that this is not an attack on the show but a jab at those who think it’s bigger than it truly is. Don’t’ worry, you are still free to enjoy it.

 

And I think you are not giving the writer's here enough credit. They took what you describe as actually being from the previous gens and turned into something wonderful as well as believable. I have no problem seeing this world as one that could exist alongside The Four Nations. Would I say it's on the same level of verisimilitude? Absolutely not, but it's not a coloring book.

[Goat-kun 2,530]

Snip

All the things you said (sans cutie marks-ish) were fanon speculations or a repeat of vague info that we got from the show. To say that grass is green doesn’t tell you that it’s a monocot plant or that it’s a plant at all. And that’s that. Not once in your answer have you managed to provide satisfactory explanation/speculation that would be based solely upon information gained within the show, a requirement you must at least somewhat fulfill if you want to call something a magical world. The moment you have to rely on an external source (aka thin air fanon) to provide such an explanation is the moment all illusions fade away. It’s an exploration of personal opinion not an exploration of made up environment.

 

Also:

-There is no proof that griffons can or cannot shape clouds. And our feisty pegasi don’t actually control the weather either. Hence all the machinery and silly plots to get water into the sky.

-And all that cutie mark shenanigans still doesn’t explain why you can swap them like stickers if they only symbolize one pony’s destiny.

-Yakyakistan is not on the official map. Was it added cause they needed some hairy idiots? You decide.

-Orthros is actually a name of a singular monster, same as Cerberus. Some say he was his brother. I’m asking cause fantasies nowadays regard neither as single entities.

-Luna was imprisoned in the moon (show) vs Luna was strolling on the moon (IDW). Both are canon and H-Bro approved, I guess.

-Space Bears be Space Bears/thread

-Guess Discord is omnipotent, except when he’s not and cannot even break a measly alicorn enchantment or catches a cold from a Tatzelwurm.

-Tools: I too am willing to let this slide. After all, this is a cartoon about colorful equines that act like humans in a non-human world.

-Helio vs Geocentric: … Agreed

 

It’s not that I’m not giving MLP writers credit, I’m just giving it where it is due: slice of life episodes. Let’s be honest, MLP never was and never will be big because of its story or setting but because of its characters. They will be its legacy after the plot shall be forgotten, and that’s just fine, even though it’s a pity.

[KatonRyu 1,033]

The only episode I'd say was written entirely for bronies was the 100th episode, Slice of Life. Aside from that I really don't think the show deteriorated in any way, but rather that the writers have gotten more comfortable writing it.

 

Compared to previous generations, I think only G1 comes anywhere close to G4, and even then I'm not too thrilled about humans being present in it, so overall I would say distance from previous generations is a very good thing.

 

Something else I would like to comment on are the Williams episodes in Season 2 missing the right vibe. (I know, this may not reflect OP's opinion but since it was mentioned in that post I'll respond to it.) Williams wrote four episodes in Season 2, and only with the Mysterious Mare Do Well did I feel she dropped the ball by making the Mane 5 so smug about their success.

 

In Hearth's Warming Eve, they're putting up a play from a time where there was pretty much a civil war going on in Equestria. Of course they're not going to be very nice to each other and in fact their mean-spiritedness is the cause of their problems.

 

In Putting Your Hoof Down, Fluttershy is tired of being a doormat and swings too far the other way. You might argue that the ponies in Ponyville were harsher than usual to kick off the plot, but still. FLuttershy herself was a real bitch in that episode, but then her lesson was to not be too extreme, one way or another. Again, her being mean was the focus of the plot, and so I don't see it as a bad thing.

 

Dragon Quest I can't remember very well, other than the teenage dragons being bastards. But, well, they're dragons. Spike seems to be the exception to the rule when it comes to being nice.

 

Aside from this, I don't think Equestria was ever made to promote escapism. It's the setting for a kids' show, nothing more and nothing less. Referencing pop culture and memes is something a lot of shows do, and I think MLP actually handles all of that quite well because nothing the ponies do is out of place in their world. References aren't shoehorned in just for their own sakes, and honestly I would have missed most of them if they hadn't been pointed out to me.

 

The one reference-overdosed episode is episode 100, which I consider to be one of the best episodes of the series. I liked seeing the staff go all out to give their take on the brony fandom's theories. All in all, I think that they manage to keep the fandom placated while not making any big alterations to what I believe their plans were anyway, which is quite amazing considering how fickle and entitled a vocal minority in the brony fandom is.

[Justin_Case001 4,907]

Gen 4 is certainly different from the past, but I think the differences are a good thing.  And for the record, I think that FIM does indeed stand on it's own legs, and doesn't rely on memes or pop culture references and that sort of thing.  That stuff is just the icing on the cake.  But if you want a show that takes itself 100% seriously, with completely immersive lore, that never references anything outside of itself, never acknowledges anything else, never breaks the 4th wall, etc, then I guess you're looking in the wrong place.

 

I'd also like to point out that shows reflect the time in which they were made.  Of course FIM is going to feel different from the older generations.  And there's nothing wrong with that.  And then, on the other hoof, you have anomalies like The Simpsons, a show that was dragged across decades, and tried to evolve to keep up with the times, and ended up becoming an abomination.  It should have stayed in the time period it was made in.  Plasma tv's and social networking sites have no place in the world of The Simpsons.  Anyway, there's nothing wrong with classics, but there's nothing wrong with a fresh take for a reboot, either.