Spike's Character Going Forward

[Rocky 68]

I wanted to create this poll to ask the question I've basically been asking in other threads and combine it into one. 

Edited October 11, 2015 by Rocky

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

To be honest I love Spike just the way he is and I don't think he needs to be changed.

[Rocky 68]

How about this? Spike often wonders what he's meant to do in his future and often thinks about the vision he saw at Sombra's nightmare door. So much so that he goes back to the Crystal Empire on his own to see if there's something there for him in his future since the Crystal Ponies appreciate him a lot more. This could also be an opportunity for the show to explore more about the ways of the Crystal Ponies and more about how they lived before Sombra's rule and after. AND then...Shining Armor could be the male figure in Spike's life that can help him become tougher mentally as well as physically. So in a way, he's not leaving the show. He's just being re-assigned. 

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

If Spike was a worker in the real world, he would have been shown the door in "Princess Spike". Princess Twilight Sparkle is just what her new name suggests; one of higher status and importance than before. This position should come with the perk of having thousands of prospective servants at the ready should Spike screw up good enough. She does have that luxury already - she's grown closer to the Mane 6 over so much time.

 

At the same time, there's not so much wrong with Spike's character as the fact that the writers don't have much idea what there is left to do with him because of that fact. He's not a pony. He's male. Therefore, he's different.

 

"Princess Spike" was a formulaic episode at best, which isn't too bad. However, at its worst, it tears Spike down when he finally overcomes and has him bear the brunt of all the wrongs while others get away with it. Cadance and Twilight did not properly communicate their intentions. The delegates are shallow and condescending, actively shutting down Spike and mindlessly following princess orders without making decisions for themselves. And yet it's Spike who's made to be brought down even when he does right. The episode ends on yet another gag at his expense.

 

In other episodes, he's the target of an easy joke. The writers do this because they don't see anywhere else to put him. You know what other show has writers that use this excuse? Family Guy.

 

Just because a character is different and you have no idea where to put him doesn't mean making him an easy target is the only thing left to do. It is a textbook example of lazy writing. And there's one thing even worse about it, there is a way to make a character the narrative punching bag and make it good.

 

Meg from Family Guy and Spike are two examples of what happens when you have a punching bag character that has nothing sympathetic left about them. The abuse isn't funny, not because they don't deserve it, but because they just take it and everyone else accepts it. No one does anything about it, and the rare times someone does, it's kicked back into place.

 

Charlie Brown is an example of how you do an unlucky punching bag right. Charlie Brown doesn't give up. Charlie Brown is an everyman, and although he feels the whole world is against him, the narrative doesn't take sides. He just can't help being unremarkable and average, and he can't help that his peers make him an easy target. However, he doesn't just take it. He keeps trying to kick that football, or get that Christmas tree, and neither the narrative nor the others seem to be ungrateful for it. Neither do any of his misadventures rob him of his motivations to continue.

 

With the way the writers treat Spike, Spike has no incentive to improve, because no matter how much harder he tries, he's only going to get dumped on anyway. He's going to try his best, but those ungrateful ponies are going to leave him with a plate full of nachos in "Twilight Time", or are going to give him the disproportionate amount of blame as in "Princess Spike". It's only a matter of time before he goes full "Seahorse Seashell Party" on them.

 

The next step for Spike is to realize how underappreciated he is and to continue to develop his self-image. The Crusaders and the Mane 6 are already on their way to achieving big life goals and going off to save the world, but Spike continues to be left behind. I'd like for them to develop him in tandem with Big Mac and Shining Armor. Other than the fact that all three of them are male, I'm sure all three of them have had to deal with playing second fiddle all the time. Big Mac did to Applejack ever since she became Apple Bloom's mother figure ("Brotherhooves Social"), and ever since she became one of the Mane 6 (that episode, as well as one interpretation of his dream from "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?"). I also can't help but imagine Shining Armor takes a back seat to Princess Cadance as well. They can relate to Spike and offer his best support outside of Twilight Sparkle.

 

Spike needs to be allowed to get out more and be more independent. He needs to be able make his own connections and friends. He can't continue to go without having his future be ignored, and he can't be the same thing forever. If you can't change him, at least acknowledge he'll be a bit slower than the others. Hell, that's another episode right there (a possible co-star with the Crusaders). For too long, he's been just an accessory to Twilight and the others. Now, that limited characterization is beginning to hit its wall. He needs to be his own dragon for once. What's wrong with teaching a kid to be more independent?

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

I hope he gets developed in S6.

Edited October 11, 2015 by VG_Addict

[NeonCobalt 256]

When he's just one of many characters in an episode, I have no issue with him. However, other than a few exceptions, Spike-centric episodes seem to drop the ball with his character. They need to do a better job of writing his solo episodes, or stop giving him solo episodes altogether.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

Any chance of development in S6?

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

Any chance of development in S6?

We don't know yet. It's a long way off, we'll just have to wait and see. From what it looks like, he won't have any of the remaining episodes in Season 5 unless he breaks out in a remarkable supporting role (don't know if that's likely, though). It'll have to be Season 6 if there is any more for him. We don't know if there will even be a Season 7.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Wind Chaser

[J. Brony 313]

I think they should introduce another dragon into the series, one closer to Spike's age this time.  Having another dragon as a friend (possibly even a female dragon) would do wonders for Spike's character development I think.

 

Or maybe do an episode where another dragon appears to cause trouble for Ponyville and it turns out to be one of Spike's parents.  He could meet them and maybe have his own "finale" episode based on that.

 

Whatever they decide to do with him, I really wouldn't mind hearing Spike singing a solo in an episode.

[Singe 2,111]

They need to do at least the following.

 

Fluttershy and Spike

Rainbow Dash and Spike

Pinkie Pie and Spike

A pony that is Spike's age that has a crush on him.

[Rocky 68]

If Spike was a worker in the real world, he would have been shown the door in "Princess Spike". Princess Twilight Sparkle is just what her new name suggests; one of higher status and importance than before. This position should come with the perk of having thousands of prospective servants at the ready should Spike screw up good enough. She does have that luxury already - she's grown closer to the Mane 6 over so much time.

 

At the same time, there's not so much wrong with Spike's character as the fact that the writers don't have much idea what there is left to do with him because of that fact. He's not a pony. He's male. Therefore, he's different.

 

"Princess Spike" was a formulaic episode at best, which isn't too bad. However, at its worst, it tears Spike down when he finally overcomes and has him bear the brunt of all the wrongs while others get away with it. Cadance and Twilight did not properly communicate their intentions. The delegates are shallow and condescending, actively shutting down Spike and mindlessly following princess orders without making decisions for themselves. And yet it's Spike who's made to be brought down even when he does right. The episode ends on yet another gag at his expense.

 

In other episodes, he's the target of an easy joke. The writers do this because they don't see anywhere else to put him. You know what other show has writers that use this excuse? Family Guy.

 

Just because a character is different and you have no idea where to put him doesn't mean making him an easy target is the only thing left to do. It is a textbook example of lazy writing. And there's one thing even worse about it, there is a way to make a character the narrative punching bag and make it good.

 

Meg from Family Guy and Spike are two examples of what happens when you have a punching bag character that has nothing sympathetic left about them. The abuse isn't funny, not because they don't deserve it, but because they just take it and everyone else accepts it. No one does anything about it, and the rare times someone does, it's kicked back into place.

 

Charlie Brown is an example of how you do an unlucky punching bag right. Charlie Brown doesn't give up. Charlie Brown is an everyman, and although he feels the whole world is against him, the narrative doesn't take sides. He just can't help being unremarkable and average, and he can't help that his peers make him an easy target. However, he doesn't just take it. He keeps trying to kick that football, or get that Christmas tree, and neither the narrative nor the others seem to be ungrateful for it. Neither do any of his misadventures rob him of his motivations to continue.

 

With the way the writers treat Spike, Spike has no incentive to improve, because no matter how much harder he tries, he's only going to get dumped on anyway. He's going to try his best, but those ungrateful ponies are going to leave him with a plate full of nachos in "Twilight Time", or are going to give him the disproportionate amount of blame as in "Princess Spike". It's only a matter of time before he goes full "Seahorse Seashell Party" on them.

 

The next step for Spike is to realize how underappreciated he is and to continue to develop his self-image. The Crusaders and the Mane 6 are already on their way to achieving big life goals and going off to save the world, but Spike continues to be left behind. I'd like for them to develop him in tandem with Big Mac and Shining Armor. Other than the fact that all three of them are male, I'm sure all three of them have had to deal with playing second fiddle all the time. Big Mac did to Applejack ever since she became Apple Bloom's mother figure ("Brotherhooves Social"), and ever since she became one of the Mane 6 (that episode, as well as one interpretation of his dream from "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?"). I also can't help but imagine Shining Armor takes a back seat to Princess Cadance as well. They can relate to Spike and offer his best support outside of Twilight Sparkle.

 

Spike needs to be allowed to get out more and be more independent. He needs to be able make his own connections and friends. He can't continue to go without having his future be ignored, and he can't be the same thing forever. If you can't change him, at least acknowledge he'll be a bit slower than the others. Hell, that's another episode right there (a possible co-star with the Crusaders). For too long, he's been just an accessory to Twilight and the others. Now, that limited characterization is beginning to hit its wall. He needs to be his own dragon for once. What's wrong with teaching a kid to be more independent?

I think Spike could benefit if he met somepony that understands how he feels. He needs to know that no matter how much crap he puts up with and how often he's left out to dry, there's someone out there you cares. I don't want it to get to the point where Spike looks like the bad guy, but I think he needs to eventually blow up at the Mane Six. Like in the sense that he's always done his part to help the manes with their goals and dreams and if they were really their friends, they would support him as he tries to figure out what his goals are and how to carry them out. Yeah. As much as I hate the moral to that Family Guy episode, "Secret Seahorse Party" is a good example of how the blowup can go but it doesn't have to get to the point where it flip flops so quickly. Luna would be perfect for that role since she too once felt used and forgotten about. She's the one who would encourage Spike to not give up and to tell the girls that he needs to go on his own path, whatever that means. This could end up being Spike's signature emotional moment that could open doors for his character going forward. 

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

I think Spike could benefit if he met somepony that understands how he feels. He needs to know that no matter how much crap he puts up with and how often he's left out to dry, there's someone out there you cares. I don't want it to get to the point where Spike looks like the bad guy, but I think he needs to eventually blow up at the Mane Six. Like in the sense that he's always done his part to help the manes with their goals and dreams and if they were really their friends, they would support him as he tries to figure out what his goals are and how to carry them out. Yeah. As much as I hate the moral to that Family Guy episode, "Secret Seahorse Party" is a good example of how the blowup can go but it doesn't have to get to the point where it flip flops so quickly. Luna would be perfect for that role since she too once felt used and forgotten about. She's the one who would encourage Spike to not give up and to tell the girls that he needs to go on his own path, whatever that means. This could end up being Spike's signature emotional moment that could open doors for his character going forward. 

You want Spike to tell the Mane Six that he's going to follow his own dreams?

[Rocky 68]

You want Spike to tell the Mane Six that he's going to follow his own dreams?

I want Spike to tell them this, "I helped all of you and other ponies reach their goals. It's time for me to find my own path. The path to find out exactly who I am." 

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

Maybe Spike grows up and applies for a job. Sure, he has a job assisting Twilight, but I mean a job where he gets paid.

[Rocky 68]

Maybe Spike grows up and applies for a job. Sure, he has a job assisting Twilight, but I mean a job where he gets paid.

I have an idea with that. Spike gets promoted somewhat or is given a job by Cadance as hers and Shining Armor's advisor at the Crystal Empire. What do you think? 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

Spike is a dragon and dragons are problematic as far as the whole equine friendship narrative is concerned. They are greedy, powerful, and quite robust in their social interactions, but if Spike is ever going to advance as a character, he must accept his scaly heritage one way or another. For that to happen, we first need to have a dragon episode that does them justice (that means no IDW Barneys). I mean seriously, even He-Man has portrayed dragons with more layers than MLP. Myaah! Anyway, once Spike understands what it means to be a dragon, he can them realize that not all of them must have a hoard of gold and gems. His hoard can be comprised of friends he has surrounded himself with, and that realization can lead to the obtainment of wings (dragon’s cutie mark?). The only problem I see here is that he’s not particularly close to other ponies that comprise Mane 6. He seems to be closer to Big Mac than say Pinkie Pie or Rainbow Dash. Even when one disregards my gibbering musings, one thing still holds true: it’s about damn time he makes some friends.

[Singe 2,111]

Major reveal that Spike was grown in a lab.

[Rocky 68]

Seems like a lot of votes so far have been to just write him better. The big question is, is there enough there already for him to be written better? 

[ManyANewDay_36 178]

I love Spike the way he is. 

[manic 121]

I thought Dragon Quest was a good opportunity for some growth, but in the end he was just Spike.

[Rocky 68]

I thought Dragon Quest was a good opportunity for some growth, but in the end he was just Spike.

It still frustrates me because that was the perfect episode to set the records straight on where Spike came from and him interacting with other dragons. While Spike himself was fine in it, we're probably given the most cliche characters in the entire series so far. 

[Cleverclover 1,526]

He definitely needs to be written with more consistency. Episodes like Princess Spike should not be a thing anymore (and it's sad that apparently that's his only episode this season. Like, really?  :okiedokielokie:) 

[UnknownFry 169]

The show and staff have treated him just fine, but one suggestion is to have him develop an identity outside of Rarity and Twilight by have him develop a greater sense of independence. Probably best just keep him restricted to supporting roles for now as his lack of maturity as a baby dragon  puts him situations that tend to work against.

 

Stay the course is what I am saying, and he has been depicted just fine in Equestria Girls as well too. The important thing is not give up on him by not trying.

Edited October 12, 2015 by UnknownFry

[Rocky 68]

Agree or disagree with this post? 

 

http://titanium-pony.deviantart.com/art/go-ask-yourself-that-question-565801185

[Truffles 2,033]

Agree or disagree with this post? 

 

http://titanium-pony.deviantart.com/art/go-ask-yourself-that-question-565801185

 

Somewhat disagree. It's not that Spike hasn't done important things - he's helped move the plot along in various episodes in very important ways. It just that the recognition for that is seemingly forgotten by the next episode. He helped save the Crystal Empire, but Cadence and the other Crystal delegates in "Princess Spike" are suspicious of their "hero" and don't even speak up for him when he gets interrupted by that pony that insults him as "some random dragon."

 

If the DA poster was really meaning to ask, "Should have Spike's plot threads been finished before the CMC's?" then that is another matter, though I'm kind of undecided on it because I'm not sure they are more important than the CMC's marks. I will say it would be nice if:

• Spike would find out his origins and how his egg came to be in the hooves of Celestia.
• We find out why his greatest fear is being abandoned.
• Some closure on his relationship with Rarity (though it's been backburnered so much now it almost doesn't matter.)

His crush on Rarity, Rainbow's desire to be with the Wonderbolts, and the CMC's quest for marks have been the show's 3 main tropes, and one is definitively closed, the other is getting close. So only his crush is left and is pretty much where it was at the start of the show; "Secret of my Excess"-tender-moment-at-the-end notwithstanding.