Has the show jumped the shark?

[Thrond 3,263]

Seasons 4 and 5 still had the mane six learning relevant lessons or otherwise doing things that progressed them as characters. I'll admit there were exceptions. For instance, I didn't like Fluttershy's characterization in Scare Master after showing so much competence earlier in the season, and I also didn't like Twilight's hubris in What About Discord, but these were still two episodes in which they learned lessons they hadn't learned before. 

 

As for season 6, we have both the post-marked CMC, and Starlight learning lessons as Twilight's student as two avenues by which this season can show our characters progressing. And yet, how has season 6 treated these two developments? Starlight is such a no-show at this point that I'm entirely curious as to why she even joined the cast in the first place, and the post-marked CMC have barely made even a dent in their new arc and remain in almost the exact same place they were before they got their cutie marks. 

 

On top of that, what are we getting instead? Episodes that regress the mane six's development. 28 Pranks Later featured a Rainbow Dash that hasn't been seen since season 2, and Spice Up Your Life featured a Rarity whose beliefs and values were the exact opposite of what they were in last season's Canterlot Boutique. 

 

This is why season 6 feels so damn pointless to me. If this season is going to ignore the new developments that it has and instead only endeavor to take the mane six back instead of forward, then why the hell was it even made? 

Still not agreeing that "Spice Up Your Life" is entirely inconsistent with "Canterlot Boutique," but that aside, season 6 contains the first time Fluttershy hasn't regressed on all character development since season 3, while season 4 had "Rainbow Falls" which regressed RD every bit as much as "Newbie Dash" or "28 Pranks Later," and generally ignoring RD's growth in maturity in favour of some form of immaturity is really par for the course by now. Then there were episodes like "Somepony to Watch Over Me" which largely bypassed established characterization altogether, so consistency with an earlier form of the character at least seems like a step up, especially considering that you can only cite maybe three examples out of the 16 episodes shown. It's not pushing forward nearly as much as I'd like to, but where have you been the past couple seasons if you think that is new? 

 

Moreover, what I don't understand is how seasons 4 and 5 actually progressed the mane six as characters all that much, given that season 4 frequently had characters reaffirm traits without actually changing at all, and that season 5 quite frequently shoved all its focus onto a secondary character with the mane six really only there so we can see this other character's dilemma. Not to mention that the few forward developments in both seasons tended to be largely meaningless. How does Rainbow learning to deal with loss in "Tanks for the Memories" expand her character? How does "Amending Fences" have Twilight learn anything she didn't already know going in when Moondancer's arc only validated her previously held ideas? 

 

None of that is to say that season 6 is doing a brilliant job of moving characters forward. I think it's done a lot of things better than the deeply frustrating previous two seasons, but if you don't, then I'm not here to tell you you're wrong. It's just that after complaining for two seasons that the show's characters had grown stagnant, I'm clueless about how this season is any different in that regard. 

[Smitty1038 53]

I wouldn't say the show has jumped the shark. I admit, this season hasn't been as good as season's five was, but I haven't encountered an episode I outright hated. (My dislike for "No Second Prances" has gone down some.) But I feel like season 6 is just lije any other season of the show; you're going to have good episodes and you're going to have episodes that are just meh. Not bad or good, mind you, just episodes that don't leave much of an impression on you, which is exactly how I would describe this season. Who knows? Maybe the more I watch these episodes the more they'll grow on me. Or at least I hope so.

 

Really, I think the problem here isn't that the show has "jumped the shark", but rather that people put seasons one and two on a pedestal. They act as if Lauren Faust was a master of characterization and storytelling akin to Walt Disney, Edgar Allan Poe, etc, and they judge every subsequent season after Faust's departure as whether or not they're as good as the first two seasons and if they're not, then they automatically suck because they weren't made with Faust's direction, which is really unfair to the new writers of the show. The new writers aren't terrible. They're okay, but not as good as the series' original writers.

[Smitty1038 53]

...did we not watch the same seasons 4 and 5? I might be satisfied with the show merely being good most of the time, as opposed to the frequently awful previous two seasons,

Personally, I think that seasons 4 and 5 were the only seasons of this show that were actually GOOD. Seasons 1-3 were the ones, at least in my opinion, that were awful.

[Thrond 3,263]

Personally, I think that seasons 4 and 5 were the only seasons of this show that were actually GOOD. Seasons 1-3 were the ones, at least in my opinion, that were awful.

We must value different things in this show; 4 and 5 frustrated me way more often than any other seasons. 

[Smitty1038 53]

We must value different things in this show; 4 and 5 frustrated me way more often than any other seasons.

 

Interesting. I have heard others say that season 4 was a bad season. Personally, what did you find so frustrating about the previous two seasons?

[Aurora Glimmer 494]

I wouldn't say the show has jumped the shark. I admit, this season hasn't been as good as season's five was, but I haven't encountered an episode I outright hated. (My dislike for "No Second Prances" has gone down some.) But I feel like season 6 is just lije any other season of the show; you're going to have good episodes and you're going to have episodes that are just meh. Not bad or good, mind you, just episodes that don't leave much of an impression on you, which is exactly how I would describe this season. Who knows? Maybe the more I watch these episodes the more they'll grow on me. Or at least I hope so.

This is completely at odds with what you said earlier.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

There are two others.

1. Rita Hsiao. She was one of the writers for both Toy Story 2 and Mulan.
2. Someone from one of the Ice Age movies, but he apparently had almost no impact in the film.

 

 

Never happening. I don't think Amending Fences is good. I know Amending Fences is good.

Well yeah, there's those two, I meant only two *Pony* writers

[Thrond 3,263]

Interesting. I have heard others say that season 4 was a bad season. Personally, what did you find so frustrating about the previous two seasons?

Character stagnation, spotty quality, a seeming reluctance to take any sort of risks outside of very few instances, a tendency bite off more than they can chew when they do take risks.

 

Season 4 especially I found took almost no risks whatsoever. I felt like I learned nothing new about the characters, even if there's the occasional new quirk or sideways development. It has its charms and several great morals, but after a while it starts to feel really stale, especially when there's more weak episodes than ever (IMO).

 

Season 5, meanwhile, was an ambitious disaster, where entirely satisfying episodes amounted for less than half the season, but where stuff at least changed even if the characters still rarely grew. Didn't make it any less aggravating to be so often left dissatisfied.

Edited August 14, 2016 by AlexanderThrond

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

 

 

This is why season 6 feels so damn pointless to me. If this season is going to ignore the new developments that it has and instead only endeavor to take the mane six back instead of forward, then why the hell was it even made? 

 

 

 

Season six so far feels like the ultimate Filler season. They're not developing the mane six, and the "Plot" of the season revolves around starlight glimmer and her story. instead of developing the M6, they're just spinning their wheels and offering episodes that are just "cute" or "Funny" instead of trying to go forward.

 

Add in the Premier and almost certainly the finale being about Starlights journey, with the other 5 as cameos in the Premier (And most probably will be in the finale as well based on LAST SEASON'S finale), and yeah, this season just seems "There".

 

 

I'm honestly hoping that this is like S3 and they're hitting a wall because the execs are just demanding S6 be made to fill the gap between S5 and the Movie and it'll bounce right back after the movie comes out with them doing Real progress, but DANG is this season doing poorly so far.

(And before anyone jumps on me as just "hating", Saddle and row review is one of the best episodes of the series, and Gauntlet of fire was great: But a couple diamonds in Poo doesn't make it stink any less)

Character stagnation, spotty quality, a seeming reluctance to take any sort of risks outside of very few instances, a tendency bite off more than they can chew when they do take risks.

Adding onto this: I'm really hoping all this stagnation and fillerish feelings is due to them not being able to take any risks and progress at all because canon has to be "Locked" in for the upcoming movie, so they can't rock the boat much before that one hits to avoid messing with its prelocked continuity.

[Aurora Glimmer 494]

Season six so far feels like the ultimate Filler season. They're not developing the mane six, and the "Plot" of the season revolves around starlight glimmer and her story. instead of developing the M6, they're just spinning their wheels and offering episodes that are just "cute" or "Funny" instead of trying to go forward.

Except they really aren't doing anything with Starlight Glimmer's story. She's barely been in this season.

[cybershocker455 324]

Depends on how you define "Jumping the Shark." The show has definitely changed from its first season, and honestly, whether you think the show has gone bad or not depends entirely on you. For me, I like the new episodes and I like that there's a recurring storyline in the seasons. Makes the show more enjoyable to watch.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Except they really aren't doing anything with Starlight Glimmer's story. She's barely been in this season.

She's got 5 confirmed episodes and most likely will get 7 with the finale; That's going to be more than double fluttershys number of episodes.

 

as for them "not DOING anything with starlight glimmer", if they're slapping us over the head with her but not doing a good JOB of it, that's not reccomending me to want more of it done.

[Thrond 3,263]

Adding onto this: I'm really hoping all this stagnation and fillerish feelings is due to them not being able to take any risks and progress at all because canon has to be "Locked" in for the upcoming movie, so they can't rock the boat much before that one hits to avoid messing with its prelocked continuity.

Only, I'm talking about seasons 4 and 5, not 6.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Only, I'm talking about seasons 4 and 5, not 6.

ah, thought you meant 5 and 6. Carry on then

[Thrond 3,263]

ah, thought you meant 5 and 6. Carry on then

I still feel 6 is a little bit better in this regard. Could just be a lot of entertaining episodes and neat ideas pulling the wool over my eyes, but at least the show is taking SOME risks.

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

She's got 5 confirmed episodes and most likely will get 7 with the finale; That's going to be more than double fluttershys number of episodes.

 

as for them "not DOING anything with starlight glimmer", if they're slapping us over the head with her but not doing a good JOB of it, that's not reccomending me to want more of it done.

 

I actually strongly disagree, I really like her episodes despite her weird redemption, and frankly she pretty much MADE the opener, like the scenes without here were boring but all her parts of the story were a lot of fun. Honestly right now id rank her above Twilight and Fluttershy. my problem with her is that she's not in Group episodes which I feel is essential if they really want her to be a MC going forward. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by M'gann M'orzz

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

TBH, I was very disappointed after watching the first two episodes of S6. I mean, I enjoyed the main adventure of saving the Crystal Empire, but I cannot stand how they made Starlight Glimmer a main part of the season. I miss the old villains, where it took them a long time to redeem themselves from their evil ways (Nightmare Moon, Discord, ect.), or never redeem themselves at all (Chrysalis, Sombra, ect.). I'm tired of the whole "Sunset Shimmer" trope that's being used in the show now. How almost every new villain becomes good literally minutes after learning about the Magic of Friendship. Sure, I know the whole "love and tolerate" thing means to accept everybody even when they screw up; which can be a good lesson for the younger audience of the show. But if someone tries to kill, or really screws up, sometimes it is best if they are not forgiven right away (or at all, in some cases). After all, it sure took the Mane 6 a while to trust Discord after his shenanigans; and I wish we could go back to that. It's okay to be skeptical of someone who has hurt you before.

 

Sorry for the rant.... :/

 

TL;DR: S6 is okay, but Starlight should not have become Twi's student.

...What Villains? Starlight is the only villain who was instantly redeemed. Sunset had to go through a another movie before she was redeemed. I'm not going to get into the comics because even though it's never been decanonized people still deny canon status. So going by what's been onscreen. Luna was never evil as she was possessed (confirmed by Lauren Faust ), Discord was only fully redeemed after Tiger's rampage, Chrysalis was never redeemed, Sombra was never redeemed (on screen ), Tirek was never redeemed, the dazzlings were never redeemed, Cinch was never redeemed and Human Twilight was never evil to begin with. Your post is highly inaccurate.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I still feel 6 is a little bit better in this regard. Could just be a lot of entertaining episodes and neat ideas pulling the wool over my eyes, but at least the show is taking SOME risks.

I honestly don't feel that way at all; nothing in S6 feels like its pushing the envelope at all. Saddle and row review doesn't push rarity's story anymore than S5 did with canterlot boutique, and Dash's wonderbolts arc felt horribly flubbed in newbie dash with zero real growth shown for dash in that episode, compared to episodes like WA in the past.

 

And its map episodes still fail to establish anything truly important feeling for its existence.

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

 

Adding onto this: I'm really hoping all this stagnation and fillerish feelings is due to them not being able to take any risks and progress at all because canon has to be "Locked" in for the upcoming movie, so they can't rock the boat much before that one hits to avoid messing with its prelocked continuity.

Here's what I don't get, people complaining about Filler, This show is frankly like 10 times more Episodic than not, it's hard to have Filler in a show like that. We've still had episodes that progress the characters, but they've NEVER been the majority but S6 still has them, Saddle Row Review, Newbie Dash (despite it's Flaws) and Flutter Brutter all progressing their starring characters. Applejack and Pinkie are still pretty stagnant but they've almost always been and it's hard to say much about Twilight since she's gotten so little time. To me the amount of growth episodes vs standard episodes feels well, pretty much the same as ever. Like look at S4, does Rarity really have a real growth episode beyond Rarity Takes Manehattan? or does Rainbow really have one outside of Testing Testing 1.2..3? 

 

 

Really Flutter Brutter is quite literally hte only episode I thought truly progressed Fluttershy in YEARS. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by M'gann M'orzz

[Dark Qiviut 22,423]

Season six so far feels like the ultimate Filler season. They're not developing the mane six, and the "Plot" of the season revolves around starlight glimmer and her story. instead of developing the M6, they're just spinning their wheels and offering episodes that are just "cute" or "Funny" instead of trying to go forward.

 

Add in the Premier and almost certainly the finale being about Starlights journey, with the other 5 as cameos in the Premier (And most probably will be in the finale as well based on LAST SEASON'S finale), and yeah, this season just seems "There".

 

I'm honestly hoping that this is like S3 and they're hitting a wall because the execs are just demanding S6 be made to fill the gap between S5 and the Movie and it'll bounce right back after the movie comes out with them doing Real progress, but DANG is this season doing poorly so far.

(And before anyone jumps on me as just "hating", Saddle and row review is one of the best episodes of the series, and Gauntlet of fire was great: But a couple diamonds in Poo doesn't make it stink any less)

 

Normally, I'd grumble over calling an episode or season filler, because it often gets flailed around without explanation. But you make a good argument about it feeling like a filler season. For a good chunk of this season, the in-characterization and development of the ReMane Six feel more and more absent. Yet, when they try, it comes at the consequence of some other major problem. Shy and Dash were excellent in Flutter Brutter, but Zephyr is more intolerable than Snips and Snails. Dash, AJ, and Rarity were awful in Cart. Dash was the yes man stereotype in the beginning of STFF, and Quibble is the analytical critic stereotype (along with being out of character in the jungle). Dash sacrifices maturity for recklessness in Newbie Dash. There's a lot of character stagnation amongst the RM6. When Spike and Starlight are the best written and most consistent of the M8, something feels amiss.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Dark Qiviut

[Aurora Glimmer 494]

She's got 5 confirmed episodes and most likely will get 7 with the finale; That's going to be more than double fluttershys number of episodes.

 

as for them "not DOING anything with starlight glimmer", if they're slapping us over the head with her but not doing a good JOB of it, that's not reccomending me to want more of it done.

Honestly, if the writers want to develop Starlight Glimmer properly, they need to give her more screentime and have her interact with other characters besides Twilight Sparkle.

 

I actually strongly disagree, I really like her episodes despite her weird redemption, and frankly she pretty much MADE the opener, like the scenes without here were boring but all her parts of the story were a lot of fun. Honestly right now id rank her above Twilight and Fluttershy. my problem with her is that she's not in Group episodes which I feel is essential if they really want her to be a MC going forward. 

Yeah, there are a lot of things the writers should've done with Starlight Glimmer if they wanted to integrate her into the Mane Six. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Silvestra Spooner

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

I honestly don't feel that way at all; nothing in S6 feels like its pushing the envelope at all. Saddle and row review doesn't push rarity's story anymore than S5 did with canterlot boutique, and Dash's wonderbolts arc felt horribly flubbed in newbie dash with zero real growth shown for dash in that episode, compared to episodes like WA in the past.

 

And its map episodes still fail to establish anything truly important feeling for its existence.

What the hell do you MEAN it doesn't push Rarity's story anymore, after Canterlot Boutique, now Rarity wants to expand to even more cities this episode does this while expanding on how her friends relate to her. What do you want her to suddenly have a completely different goal outside of the Fashion Industry now? I mean it COULD be done but it'd take a hell of a lot more time to set up.

And yes Newbie Dash is flawed, but to say it doesn't progress Rainbow Dash is just flat out wrong. 

Really If i had to judge it, so far S6 is somewhere around the level of S4 to me, lots of good episodes,a few weaker ones, but I suppose I could say the best for the most part aren't as good as the best of S4 but the worst are also nowhere near as bad as the worst of S4.

S2 would be overall around that level, maybe just a bit higher. 

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

What the hell do you MEAN it doesn't push Rarity's story anymore, after Canterlot Boutique, now Rarity wants to expand to even more cities this episode does this while expanding on how her friends relate to her. What do you want her to suddenly have a completely different goal outside of the Fashion Industry now? I mean it COULD be done but it'd take a hell of a lot more time to set up.

 

And yes Newbie Dash is flawed, but to say it doesn't progress Rainbow Dash is just flat out wrong.

 

I'm going to have to be the one with the unpopular opinion and say I had no issue with Newbie Dash as it is an accurate depiction of certain workplaces, particularly the military (which the Wonderbolts are based on and from what I hear from former servicemen, it's an accurate depiction ) and especially the the construction industry (which I'm in).

[Thrond 3,263]

I honestly don't feel that way at all; nothing in S6 feels like its pushing the envelope at all. Saddle and row review doesn't push rarity's story anymore than S5 did with canterlot boutique, and Dash's wonderbolts arc felt horribly flubbed in newbie dash with zero real growth shown for dash in that episode, compared to episodes like WA in the past.

 

And its map episodes still fail to establish anything truly important feeling for its existence.

Yes, but:

 

The season premiere talks about academic failure and the stresses of new parenthood, and breaks the formula by lacking a major threat until the second half and never having a proper villain.

 

TWO episodes are focused on the expansion of Rarity's boutique, and Dash DOES become a Wonderbolt, complete with an acknowledgement of military callsigns.

 

"A Hearth's Warming Tale" takes liberties with its source material and has strong parallels with Starlight Glimmer. One of my all-time favourites.

 

"The Saddle Row Review" takes on a completely different structure, with a more modern feel complete with a dance club. This show should be a straight-up sitcom more often.

 

"Flutter Brutter" actually dares to depict Fluttershy as more confident. Been so long since that happened!

 

Plus we have sight gags like that Daring Do body pillow which are raunchier than anything yet seen in the show.

[Platinum Sonnet 88]

...What Villains? Starlight is the only villain who was instantly redeemed. Sunset had to go through a another movie before she was redeemed. I'm not going to get into the comics because even though it's never been decanonized people still deny canon status. So going by what's been onscreen. Luna was never evil as she was possessed (confirmed by Lauren Faust ), Discord was only fully redeemed after Tiger's rampage, Chrysalis was never redeemed, Sombra was never redeemed (on screen ), Tirek was never redeemed, the dazzlings were never redeemed, Cinch was never redeemed and Human Twilight was never evil to begin with. Your post is highly inaccurate.

 

Hm... I forgot that it took an entire movie for the whole school to forgive Sunset. I was just talking about the Mane 6. They kinda forgave her at the drop of a hat.   But you bring up a good point. I'm just not too happy with the fact that Starlight is a Twilight's student now. I wish they would have gone their separate ways, because I was never a fan of Starlight as a character; Even when she was first introduced as a villain. But I shouldn't have made a ranting post before reviewing my facts first. Thanks for pointing these inaccuracies out.