Why I Think Starlight Glimmer Is A Better Character Then Sunset Shimmer

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

From what I seen, Starlight has a fanbase herself, so getting rid of her isn't as easy as one thinks, plus they released a new logo and new logo usually means a big change, also there seems to be little to no information about S7 itself, we had the same case in previous season but we kind of expected what was going to happen in those seasons and considering what I saw in the comic preview, it's highly unlikely she will be given a step back.

The comic featured a lot of characters who didnt get a chance to shine in the show (Celestia, Bab Seed, Iron Will, Sombra, even Starwirl himself), so is Starlight in the comic a good sign!? Comics usually do something the show didnt, and it is just B-canon. Seeing Starlight made me worry even more...

[LeafFerret 3,382]

The comic featured a lot of characters who didnt get a chance to shine in the show (Celestia, Bab Seed, Iron Will, Sombra, even Starwirl himself), so is Starlight in the comic a good sign!? Comics usually do something the show didnt, and it is just B-canon. Seeing Starlight made me worry even more...

I doubt it, from what I can remember, Starlight's lessons with Twilight have not been completed yet even though she did save them in the finale, I think she still has a lot to go before she can do things without Twilight's assistance.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Eh, Sunset and Starlight both have plenty of problems and I don't think either of them are good characters.  

 

Sunset's problem is that she continues to conveniently pass on her past actions (and by that I mean, the part of her that legitimately wanted to take over Equestria and enslave others) to some "old" persona of herself so that her newer persona doesn't have to deal with it. Does it really work like that? I know that she received a direct hit from the rainbow harmony laser thing, but I do not think that it rid her of every last trace of evil in her body. But it's definitely more convenient for her sake to play the victim card and act as though something or someone was simply making her be evil, and that she's always been a pure and innocent little snowflake at heart. And like others have said, she's losing her flaws pretty quickly and becoming borderline perfect. Friendship Games came out of nowhere to imply that she has intelligence that is nearly on Twilight's level, even though the Sunset Shimmer of the first Equestria Girls was clearly not a bright person (given how she thought an army of mind-controlled teenagers would stand any chance against Celestia), and I can't forget the "By the way, I have awesome guitar skills....because reasons!" thing that Rainbow Rocks shoved out of its ass at the last minute.  

 

Starlight's problem is that she keeps receiving things that she does not deserve and has not earned. One of these things being Twilight and the mane five's trust. While it took over two and a half seasons after Discord's reformation for the mane six to finally trust him and accept him as a friend, Starlight gets instant forgiveness and completely undue trust pretty much out of the gate. On top of that, for whatever reason, the writers expect us to look past her complete lack of regard for the rights of others and love her to death. It's why she violated the mane five's rights and freedoms on completely unimaginable level, and then just a few episodes later, we were expected to root for her in the season finale. At least when Sunset began gaining some goodwill, she never fell back on it. But Starlight can apparently continue to display what an awful friend and all around awful person she is, and still get rewarded in the end. 

 

Between the two, however, I think I have the potential to like Starlight more, but that's going to depend on whether she makes a legitimate effort to move past her sociopathic tendencies and be an actual friend to the mane five. Also, I would sincerely like for her to tone her magic usage way down, both in the way she exerts it over others, and in the way she jumps straight to a spell as a solution to everything. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Cleverclover

[NeonCobalt 256]

I definitely agree.

 

Also, I've never understood the idea that Sunset had the better redemption. While I'll give Rainbow Rocks credit for "rescuing" this, her initial redemption scene was terrible. It comes across like a parody of an MLP redemption. One second she's literally a demon, then she's blasted with a rainbow, then suddenly she does a complete 180.

 

I'm not going to stand here and pretend that Starlight's redemption scene was the pinnacle of television writing, because it isn't. But at the very least, they showed her being taken aback by what she had done (even though she was trying to hide it), they gave her a motivation (whether you thought it was a believable one is irrelevant), showed Twilight having sympathy for her, then had Twilight gradually talk her out of destroying the scroll and accepting her friendship. All of this takes about 1/3 of the 2nd part of the finale, which is certainly more screentime than Sunset's redemption was given in EQG1.

[Bats 16]

 

Between the two, however, I think I have the potential to like Starlight more, but that's going to depend on whether she makes a legitimate effort to move past her sociopathic tendencies and be an actual friend to the mane five. Also, I would sincerely like for her to tone her magic usage way down, both in the way she exerts it over others, and in the way she jumps straight to a spell as a solution to everything. 

thats something i see a lot in this fandom... ppl that dislike sociopathic tendencies as personality traits, or care about the character being friends with others.

 

with anime fans i see the exact opposite - characters with sociopathic tendencies are fascinating, and many of the top characters are anti-social and have very small group of friends/one person they care about/none at all.

[Lazy Crazy 3]

I disagree. I didn't like Starlight's reformation at all. Sunset Shimmer had a reason to be evil, a really simple one - she wanted power. While she was Celestia's student she grew impatient and power-hungry, but she couldn't have what she wanted in Equestria. In human world she could do what she couldn't do under Celestia's mentorship - gain power and authority by manipulating people whenever she wants. Even though she was a really bad villian, it's because she was just a selfish immature child. Her reason to be good was her transformation into a demon. It was clearly shown that it scared her and was painful, she was crying while transforming. And then she was defeated - it didn't seem like a pleasant experience ether. The crown could've possibly shown her the feelings she had already forgotten - fear and pain, feeling that everything went out of control. Twilight's preachy tone wouldn't reform anyone - feelings reformed Sunset. Starlight didn't seem to care about the world destruction, it was all Twilight's speech. And i think they could've shown more from Starlight's past - Sunburst thing might have as well been just the beginning of what Starlight went through because of cutie marks. Plus after Starlight apologised mane 6 everybody seemed to befriend and trust her, while Sunset had to earn that trust in Rainbow Rocks.

[J.J 922]

When people try to come down on my girl Starlight, but always coddle Sunset(whom I love equally as much, if not quite possibly more) They need to be reminded that Sunset was in no position to flee and devise an alternative plan, she was already known as a backstabber and her true intentions were revealed before everyone she knew and that knew her. Starlight had utter conviction in her work, with manipulation, Sunset was kind of just manipulative and cunning... Rainbow Rocks is beyond inspiring to me, but I love that Starlight is not afraid to allow her sensitivity to be shown... she is constantly nit picking at how Twilight holds double standards, or like with the season 7 finale when everyone shut her out, she knew exactly what needed to be done... it's "heroes" like Starswirl, that push aside the contributions of their  friends, though lacking the magical potential, and same untapped abilities... and hold pride above all else... the elements of harmony almost completely contradict that way of thinking, and believe it or not just as Sunset was revealed to posses harmony upholding magic, Starlight does as well, it just wasnt as defined, sometimes you need someone who has made real mistakes to have the hindsight for your foresight, and to help the teacher learn the lesson that they have initially taught them, almost exactly the same thing that Sunset did for the Mane six at the end of Rainbow Rocks....

[Lunar Glow 676]

I would say that both lack strong personalities and character, but Sunset Shimmer ranks a little higher in my books for me. 

Of course, I simply don't like Starlight Glimmer, so I might be a little biased.

[Senko 459]

On 1/16/2017 at 6:13 AM, Tilgoreth said:

On 1/16/2017 at 6:07 AM, MegaSean45 said:

I agree! I also like Starlight better! I mean mainly because she's more independent than Sunset. While Sunset is becoming a seventh Element of Harmony, Starlight is getting her own group of friends, so there are so many different possibilites with her! She might as well be a protagonist in MLP Gen 5! Or maybe gen 4.5.

I doubt they'll give Starlight a spin off show. Also its possible that Starlight could become a seventh element of harmony as well. We know one exists from Legend Of Everfree. So Starlight could be the pony equivalent.

And I would dearly love to know what element it is, why the colours on those 7 are different and who put those geodes there in the first place.

[Thrond 3,263]

It's interesting to see this post revived, because my reaction to it right now is very different from what my reaction would have been when it was first posted, which is in turn very different from what it would have been around the end of season 7. The post concerns their time as villains, in which case Starlight is obviously the more interesting character - even if we ignore the strange parts of Sunset's plan, she wasn't not a particularly original or nuanced antagonist. Post-reformation, there was a good while where I'd say I easily liked Sunset more, as all of my favourite Starlight episodes made her essentially like Sunset but more confused, but at the same time I always acknowledged Starlight as a more complex character. That didn't mean much last year, when I mostly found both of them bland, but I've liked both a lot more lately, and it's hard for me to choose between them. Do I pick the nicer, more charismatic Sunset, who fits all the criteria which make me love the mane six? Or do I pick the weirder, more morally gray Starlight, whose sketchiness is both a blessing and a curse? I win either way, so why even make the choice? Maybe I won't.

[COH 6]

I don't know...I still couldn't care less about Starlight Glimmer but I love Sunset Shimmer.

In the end it's just a matter of taste. I easily fell in love with Sunset while I simply can't get into Starlight's character. It always feels to me as if someone tries to shove her character down my throat and I really don't like that. I don't care how "grey" or complex a character is if I don't find the character charismatic.

Edited July 22, 2018 by COH

[RulesofRarity 489]

20 hours ago, COH said:

I don't know...I still couldn't care less about Starlight Glimmer but I love Sunset Shimmer.

In the end it's just a matter of taste. I easily fell in love with Sunset while I simply can't get into Starlight's character. It always feels to me as if someone tries to shove her character down my throat and I really don't like that. I don't care how "grey" or complex a character is if I don't find the character charismatic.

I agree 100%. I get the feeling of Starlight being shoved down my throat as well, she appeared in so many episodes last season that it almost felt overwhelming at times. Both the premiere episodes and the finale focused heavily on her, A Royal Problem ended up being all about her and she was the one who offered the "resolution" in Fame and Misfortune just to list a few examples.

[COH 6]

1 hour ago, RulesofRarity said:

I agree 100%. I get the feeling of Starlight being shoved down my throat as well, she appeared in so many episodes last season that it almost felt overwhelming at times. Both the premiere episodes and the finale focused heavily on her, A Royal Problem ended up being all about her and she was the one who offered the "resolution" in Fame and Misfortune just to list a few examples.

Yes, overwhelming. Whatever she says or does...I just can't feel much sympathy for her. Her Backstory was just too weak and Starlight being even more powerful(or talented) than Alicorn Twilight is just too much nonsense in my opinion. Even when she had her guest appearance on Equestria Girls(Mirror Magic) she was the one who saved the day in the end. And she'll probably be the one who'll defeat Queen Chrysalis in the end too. It's just too much...

I watched a "Rainbow Rocks" reaction video and the "Reactor" criticized the writing and Sunset Shimmer because "they tried too hard" to make us feel sympathy for Sunset Shimmer and to forgive her. This guy is apparently a Starlight Glimmer fanboy. The whole thing doesn't make any sense. How can you criticize something like that if it's about Sunset Shimmer but don't care if it's about Starlight Glimmer? The whole Sunset Shimmer vs Starlight Glimmer debate is full of Hypocrisy in my opinion.

On both sides.

Edited July 23, 2018 by COH

[gingerninja666 487]

35 minutes ago, COH said:

Yes, overwhelming. Whatever she says or does...I just can't feel much sympathy for her. Her Backstory was just too weak and Starlight being even more powerful(or talented) than Alicorn Twilight is just too much nonsense in my opinion. Even when she had her guest appearance on Equestria Girls(Mirror Magic) she was the one who saved the day in the end. And she'll probably be the one who'll defeat Queen Chrysalis in the end too. It's just too much...

I watched a "Rainbow Rocks" reaction video and the "Reactor" criticized the writing and Sunset Shimmer because "they tried too hard" to make us feel sympathy for Sunset Shimmer. This guy is apparently a Starlight Glimmer fanboy. The whole thing doesn't make any sense. How can you criticize something like that if it's about Sunset Shimmer but don't care if it's about Starlight Glimmer? The whole Sunset Shimmer vs Starlight Glimmer debate is full of Hypocrisy in my opinion.

On both sides.

The talent thing never really mattered to me because the show will never really use it like that. Starlight was useless to fix Rarity's mane issue in It Isn't The MAne Thing about You. She couldn't stop the MAulworth or a single changeling guard at all in To Change a Changeling. Just like Twilight, Star's powers will be as effective as the need arises, and this show isn't really about fighting. Then again, I don't think the show DID portray her as stronger than Twilight.

 

About the only time I've thought Star's focus was too much was in Mirror Magic. Every other time I've liked the context leading up to Starlight helping. People point at Royal Problem and say that it's all about Starlight when Idon't really see it. Starlight kinda loses any agency in the plot after swapping their marks and all the focus is on Celestia and Luna. Even at the end she's just a damsel in need of rescuing.

 

Also I'm a Starlight fan and I actually do think her backstory as it's shown is quite weak. I just kinda moved past it after a while, just like Sunset fans moved past her being a really weak villain.

Edited July 23, 2018 by gingerninja666

[Senko 459]

Personally I think Twilight's a lot stronger than she realizes its just that she tends to hold back because she's a nice pony and during the only straight up fight between her and Starlight Starlight was going all out whereas Twilight was hobbled by the fact an all out fight still lost her the battle because it distracted Rainbow Dash. At the end of that battle both of them were winded and needed a break but compare how much magic they used first.

Starlight

Levitated Herself with telekinesis? Many occasions.

Cast time travel spell x 1.

Froze someone using telekinesis? x 1

Froze Twilight in crystal with a surprise attack x 1

Energy blasts x 5

Shield x 1

Twilght

Multiple uses of telekinesis to catch spike or hold objects.

Cast time travel spell x 2

Broke free of her crystal prison x 1

Energy blasts x 4.

Rapid fire of multiple smaller energy blasts x 2

Teleports x 4

Shield x 2

So by the time we see her tiring against Starlight in their straight up battle she's already cast the time travel spell twice to Starlight's once, used her telekinesis probably a similar amount as Starlight, fired off nearly as many large energy blasts plus two rapid fires of smaller ones, teleported 4 times, shielded herself and Spike directly against energy attacks twice whereas Starlight tends to dodge and expended energy to break free of her crystal prison. Even if you just limit to energy use in that sole fight which considering she has trouble facing the timber wolves later doesn't seem like the right thing to do she's expending a lot more energy than Starlight shielding directly or teleporting out of the way rather than moving aside and twice she fires off a rapid stream of multiple energy blasts. Yet at the end they're both feeling the strain and she still teleports to talk to Dash within seconds even though she would have had to use a lot more energy than Starlight in the fight.

[Guest]

I could write a novel on why I feel Sunset is a superior character, but I'll try and condense it:

Starlight's reason for being evil is given and it's a very "meh" reason. Her friend ditched her, big whoop. Sunset however you are mistaken we are never given the full explanation and because of that we can fill in our own explanations which could make more sense. Not being told much doesn't make the reasoning bad, it means we have the ability to fill in the holes ourselves. Once you give a definitive explanation, that's it.

Starlight's backstory has a definitive explanation and it kind of sucks. Sunset's is left more open so we can sort of "fix" her a bit because we can make our own conclusions. That alone creates stronger character foundation for her.

[gingerninja666 487]

29 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

I could write a novel on why I feel Sunset is a superior character, but I'll try and condense it:

Starlight's reason for being evil is given and it's a very "meh" reason. Her friend ditched her, big whoop. Sunset however you are mistaken we are never given the full explanation and because of that we can fill in our own explanations which could make more sense. Not being told much doesn't make the reasoning bad, it means we have the ability to fill in the holes ourselves. Once you give a definitive explanation, that's it.

Starlight's backstory has a definitive explanation and it kind of sucks. Sunset's is left more open so we can sort of "fix" her a bit because we can make our own conclusions. That alone creates stronger character foundation for her.

Sunset was also given a definitive explanation.

"Sunset Shimmer. A former student of mine. She began her studies with me not long before Twilight. But when she did not get what she wanted as quickly as she liked, she turned cruel and dishonest."

I think both characters have wiggle room for fan interpretations to make them work beter. We didn't see every step Starlight took on her path to evil, just the inciting incident. All she mentioned was that in the aftermath of the Sunburst thing she never made another friend out of fear, she never mentioned the point where she actually chose to create her town.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

"Sunset Shimmer. A former student of mine. She began her studies with me not long before Twilight. But when she did not get what she wanted as quickly as she liked, she turned cruel and dishonest."

 

Yeah but we're given a vague explanation from Celestia that is not told from Sunset's perspective. Meaning that Celestia could be misinterpreting what went down or something else was going on that Celestia didn't know about. After all, she wasn't in Sunset's head.

Starlight on the other hand... Blatantly showed us her past and what she was thinking regarding it.

[Senko 459]

Just now, Key Sharkz said:

Yeah but we're given a vague explanation from Celestia that is not told from Sunset's perspective. Meaning that Celestia could be misinterpreting what went down or something else was going on that Celestia didn't know about. After all, she wasn't in Sunset's head.

Starlight on the other hand... Blatantly showed us her past and what she was thinking regarding it.

Sunsets desire for power, how she found the mirror and what happened to drive her away from Celestia is shown in the comics

[gingerninja666 487]

24 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

Yeah but we're given a vague explanation from Celestia that is not told from Sunset's perspective. Meaning that Celestia could be misinterpreting what went down or something else was going on that Celestia didn't know about. After all, she wasn't in Sunset's head.

Starlight on the other hand... Blatantly showed us her past and what she was thinking regarding it.

It showed us part of her past, skipping some pretty massive time periods. It only showed us things that happened when she was a little little kid. And I honestly don't think the logic behind why she was afraid to make more friends is the bad thing about her backstory. I actually think that makes sense for a pony who wasn't portrayed as being all that stable. The problem is we were never shown the escalation point. The moment where she stopped being sad and became a villain. That moment can be speculated about with fan interpretation.

Edited July 24, 2018 by gingerninja666

[COH 6]

2 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

It showed us part of her past, skipping some pretty massive time periods. It only showed us things that happened when she was a little little kid. And I honestly don't think the logic behind why she was afraid to make more friends is the bad thing about her backstory. I actually think that makes sense for a pony who wasn't portrayed as being all that stable. The problem is we were never shown the escalation point. The moment where she stopped being sad and became a villain. That moment can be speculated about with fan interpretation.

So is she a "grey" character or not "all that stable" aka "something's wrong with her head"? Her backstory is a pathetic joke. I'm pretty sure at least 90 % of all the people in the world had to suffer more than Starlight Glimmer and less than 1 % of us become maniacs like Starlight Glimmer just because of some bad experiences. And no, I don't think there is more to it. That's it. She lost her only friend and that's why she became a psychopath.

That's why I don't feel sympathy for her. Her motivation for being evil sucks and everyone forgave her way too quickly.

Sunset Shimmer was just extremely selfish and regrets it now. Not really a good motivation either but I at least kind of get it. Starlight Glimmer's motivation on the other hand is just not believable or understandable to me. To me she came off as a weak crybaby who punished the world for her problems to be honest with you.

Edited July 24, 2018 by COH

[Senko 459]

1 minute ago, COH said:

So is she a "grey" character or not "all that stable" aka "something's wrong with her head"? Her backstory is a pathetic joke. I'm pretty sure at least 90 % of all the people in the world had to suffer more than Starlight Glimmer and less than 1 % of us become maniacs like Starlight Glimmer just because of some bad experiences. And no, I don't think there is more to it. That's it. She lost her only friend and that's why she became a psychopath.

That's why I don't feel sympathy for her. Her motivation for being evil sucks and everyone forgave her way too quickly.

Sunset Shimmer was just extremely selfish and regrets it now. Not really a good motivation either but I at least kind of get it. Starlight Glimmer's motivation on the other hand is just not believable or understandable to me. To me she came of as a weak crybaby who punished the world for her problems to be honest with you.

Going by the comics my impression is at least part of Sunsets movivation was the belief Celestia was deliberately keeping knowledge she was ready for to herself in order to limit her pupils and keep them weaker than her. Twilight beating her would be a pretty strong indication that Celestia wasn't doing that and help her realise there is a better way.

[gingerninja666 487]

2 hours ago, COH said:

So is she a "grey" character or not "all that stable" aka "something's wrong with her head"? Her backstory is a pathetic joke. I'm pretty sure at least 90 % of all the people in the world had to suffer more than Starlight Glimmer and less than 1 % of us become maniacs like Starlight Glimmer just because of some bad experiences. And no, I don't think there is more to it. That's it. She lost her only friend and that's why she became a psychopath.

That's why I don't feel sympathy for her. Her motivation for being evil sucks and everyone forgave her way too quickly.

Sunset Shimmer was just extremely selfish and regrets it now. Not really a good motivation either but I at least kind of get it. Starlight Glimmer's motivation on the other hand is just not believable or understandable to me. To me she came off as a weak crybaby who punished the world for her problems to be honest with you.

I think she got stuck in the mindset of being a sad child and she was so powerful she never really had to grow out of it. With most people they need to accept that the world can suck and it can't be helped and you need to move on. Starlight had the power to not have to accept that. She could remove the thing that she thought was hurting her, and ensure that it never happens again. She's a womanchild. Another thing, the situation with Sunburst apparently affected her so badly that the mere idea of seeing him again started to cause PTSD style ringing in her ears. So whatever it was, it was important to her.

Throughout the Cutie Remark she didn't think she was actually causing damage to Equestria. She didn't even believe it was possible. As soon as Twi showed her that she was, Star lost all of her composure and became hysterical. It clearly got to her. And since then I think she has genuinely shown remorse and is massively grateful towards Twilight for all she's done. Especially at this point. For one example, she felt so guilty in A Royal Problem that she experienced a nightmare so bad that Luna thought it might actually cause major harm to Starlight's psyche. In To Where and Back Again she curled up into a ball when her town tried to put her in charge of anything again, because she didn't think she deserved it.

Edited July 24, 2018 by gingerninja666

[Senko 459]

1 hour ago, gingerninja666 said:

 In To Where and Back Again she curled up into a ball when her town tried to put her in charge of anything again again, because she didn't think she deserved it.

Huh I got the impression it was more she was terrified if she started making decisions she'd fall back into her old evil way's more than anything else.

[gingerninja666 487]

7 minutes ago, Senko said:

Huh I got the impression it was more she was terrified if she started making decisions she'd fall back into her old evil way's more than anything else.

That might have been part of it, yeah. I just remembered the line where she said "I was horrible when I ruled that town!" which would make more sense with what you said.

Edited July 24, 2018 by gingerninja666