ooc A Cultural Exchange 1x1 with Sherem OOC

[Sherem 4,807]

again I bow to your patience and virtue you have, Truly I do. In my case if this would have happened to me being the one that waits I would have already snapped and well yes in 6 years of rping wether be here or in derpibooru, Deviantart, CA you are the first that is this well written. After all I swore to myself never to wait for anybody anymore that long

I'm humbled truly by your skill. And I'm also relieved that I haven't steered the rp to your disliking. You will forgive my almost non existent self esteem partner.

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

I don't know what it is with this thread, but that's at least the third time now when I was sure I pressed submit, only to find the next day that it was still waiting to be submitted.

Very strange.

But I do enjoy these asides to Celestia, I look forward with great anticipation if you'd like to have her show up in the story, either her coming to Archback, or simply being encountered when Midnight and Sherem return to Equestria.

If you'd like some details as to the complicated history the royalty of Archback and Equestria share, I'd be happy to supply it.

[Sherem 4,807]

Should we consult an Admin about this matter?

please do supply it so it can stay coherent between the interactions of the ponies of the Archback kigndom so I can even play as Celestia around

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

We'll see if it keeps up, I may just switch browsers and see if it helps.

 

The Story of Archback and Equestria:

~5-10 years before Nightmare Moon

Sir and Midnight arrive on Equis via dimensional rift having been defeated in their world and banished from it. They quickly adapt to the local situation and on their path to encounter civilization they encounter what they recognize as a slave caravan, they brutally break it up, a few slavers escaping, all the zebra slaves fleeing, except for one zebra foal who's parents' murder sparked Sir and Midnight's attack. The foal, named Mohotma, joins them on their new quest to end slavery and tear down the morally bankrupt society that allowed such activities.

Sir and Midnight discover Archback Mountain, and set it up as a haven for freed slaves who don't want to return to Zebrica, they are managed by Mohotma, who despite his young age exhibits exemplary planning and management skills. The city grows quickly and fame of it extends throughout the region, in central Equestria Mohotma City is heralded among the slaves as a myth, some thinking it to be another name for heaven, though over time they come to learn that it is a real place. May slavers set their sights on it, but are always repulsed by Mohotma's defenses. The princesses are as of yet unconcerned as the lost and liberated slaves are almost entirely on the borders and less savory owners.

~5 years before Nightmare Moon

Sir and Midnight begin to press inward towards central Equestria, Mohotma and other freed zebras willingly being recaptured to serve as spies on the central Equestrian plantations as well as spreading the word to the other slaves of their coming liberation. Sir and Midnight begin raiding plantations, abducting slavers out of their homes, burning fields, and freeing slaves. The worst of the slavers were killed outright, though their children were always spared, moved safely to the nearest town so they could tell the others what had happened. Those slavers who were abducted but not killed were made to serve in Mohotma city to pay back their debt, they would work until they had earned enough to pay what they would have owed their slaves had they hired them instead of enslaving them. At which point they would be allowed to leave or stay as free citizens, many chose to stay.

Two old families in particular were targeted the strongest, having had the widest use of slavery: The Apples and the Pies. The Apples scared easily, abandoning their lands and fleeing to all corners of Equestria to escape the Demon as they called it. (Stories passed down through generations explains why Applejack fears Zebras) The Pies were more stalwart, fighting back until only one small family remained (Stories here of their total destruction explain why Pinkie's fear of Zebras is even more pronounced). The princesses decided that they had to act before things got too far out of hoof, Luna and then Guard Captain Resplendent Spark(Of noble house Spark which later became Sparkle, or Twilight's ancestor) were dispatched to discover the cause and end the uprising. Resplendent was devoted to the cause and led many battles against the rebelling slaves, winning more than any other, but still forced back whenever Sir or Midnight were there personally. Luna however had never supported the idea of slavery, and so secretly aided Midnight and Sir in their efforts, making a show of facing them down but ultimately allowing them marginal victories.

Luna and Midnight fell in love, she was shocked to discover that Midnight's life expectancy was only fifteen more years, and so brought him to the Tree of Peace, which gave great gifts in exchange for greater responsibility. Midnight was given a biological immortality (He would not age but could be killed) in exchange for becoming the avatar of Vengeance, giving him greater power in his objective of liberating the slaves. Luna adopts a number of orphans, known as the children of the moon, and they are moved to Archback.

~1-2 years before Nightmare Moon

Celestia, upset by the lack of progress against Sir and Midnight, decides that she herself will go to defeat them, leading to a final battle between Sir, Midnight, Luna, and Celestia. Luna and Midnight make a show of fighting while Sir battles wholeheartedly against Celestia. Eventually Midnight is downed by Luna and Sir surrenders on the condition that Midnight is spared. Sir is then turned to stone and Midnight made a slave and given to Luna. This puts a major strain on their relationship. They had previously been trying for a foal of their own, but given Midnight is not technically a pony he wasn't quite genetically compatible. Luna in secret had a special potion made by Starswirl to correct this incompatibility, and hid the ensuing pregnancy from both Midnight and Celestia as their relationship had further deteriorated.

~0 years before Nightmare Moon

Midnight declares that Luna is just as bad as all the slavers he had fought, citing that she could have freed him at any point but instead was too cowardly to stand up to her sister. Midnight escapes the castle and runs for Archback, welcomed back by the growing community at Mohotma City and the foals he had been raising with Luna, who had not seen him for nearly a year at that point. Midnight did not return to Equestria until Sheoreth called him there.

Luna gave birth in secret to Hercules, who was given to a nurse who had recently lost a foal of her own and told to keep him safe.

Luna, distraught at Midnight's words finally gains the courage to stand up to her sister, becoming Nightmare Moon.

~1 year after Nightmare Moon

Celestia forgives Sir by speaking to his statue, citing that he had ultimately been right about slavery and her, she says that she would free him then, but had lost her connection to the elements that bound him when she used them against her sister. Sir forgave her then.

Celestia moves from the Castle of the Two Sisters to Canterlot, moving all of the statues, including Discord, but leaving Sir behind as the castle crumbles around him. Sir regrets forgiving Celestia.

~5 years after Nightmare Moon

Resplendent Spark leads one final campaign against Mohotma City, and is slain by Midnight, who sends his body honorably back to Canterlot.

1000 years after Nightmare Moon

Luna returns and the elements are restored in the castle where Sir is imprisoned, but Celestia does not free him. Sir swears vengeance upon her.

1001 years after Nightmare Moon

Discord escapes, and enlists Sir's help against Celestia. Discord frees Sir and temporarily grants him some of his power. Sir is sent to Canterlot where he uses Discord's power to trap Celestia within her letter room, the doors guarded by replica statues of Sir when he was stone, all looking down on her in reminder of her broken promise. She pleads forgiveness fruitlessly to the statues as she is forced to watch, helpless as Sir was, as Discord wreaks havoc on Equestria. Sir does not forgive Celestia, and makes his way out of Canterlot before Discord is defeated. Sir returns to Archback where he takes his place as head of the Equis Global Council, which Midnight had founded after his journeys to all nations of the world.

~End Story~

To this day Luna and Midnight have never made contact.

 

If anything is unclear do let me know.

[Sherem 4,807]

Interesting backgorund, detailed and dramatic tough I gotta ask, why Celestia is your focus of being the evil or at least the one that is too antagonistic in this matter. Certianly this not a vision I share of the character XD

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

Celestia as my focus, I've written about it in a few places but I can't seem to find it at the moment, I summarized the issues of immortality.

In Chapter 21 of my published work actually, I said this:

"From the very beginning of her reign Celestia saw all her subjects as her children. She loved their adoration and would do all she could to keep them safe and happy. In this way she spoiled them by not allowing them to experience many trials or hardships. She couldn't willingly allow bad things to happen to her ponies so she forbade Luna to act no matter the consequences. But the consequences ended up more dire than she thought. In addition, one of the plights of immortals is the fear of being alone, to be unwanted. Celestia can't bear the thought of being unnecessary, so she will do anything she can to keep herself relevant and important to her ponies, including taking sole control of the sun, and moon in Luna's absence. Being a staunch protector against any non-equestrians, hiding and ignoring the evils of the past so she would appear infallible, and disregarding any and all evidences that any form of government other than hers could work well, thus the hiding of Troy. In the end? Celestia is scared, scared of being left behind and forgotten, yet forced to continue living. She can't tell anyone without appearing fallible."

Essentially I don't portray Celestia as perfect, I gave her flaws and I put reasoning behind those flaws. I don't think Celestia is evil, and there are few in my world who actually think she is evil, they just see her for what she is: a flawed mare pretending to be perfect. And they seek to expose that to the world. Celestia is caught between two hard places, she wants what's best for her little ponies, but also wants to ensure her own place. And, as one is often want to do, she sometimes prioritizes her own security over what may actually be best for her ponies as she assumes that She is best for her ponies.

I continued in the same chapter:

"I would still say Celestia is kind and benevolent, but kind and nice are different than good. She goes out of her way to prevent hardships among her ponies, and as a result she has hindered your technological and social development to protect you from the unknown or from deprecation. Can you imagine what it must be like to have a talent that is no longer useful? When what your good at has been replaced by something better? She's lied to you to keep you safe in her mind, safe from discovering bad things.

From discovering that the world could go on just fine without her, that she herself is no longer necessary." "I can't say I find her actions entirely justified, but I do see why she did them. But in the end she is powerless to stop your progression, eventually she will fade into myth, like she caused her sister to, but she wants to delay it as long as she possibly can." A parent teaches their child to survive without them because they know they won't always be there, but Celestia will never die, so she wants her ponies to need her for as long as she possibly can. She has needs too you know, she needs to feel loved just like we do. Fear is a complex feeling, it can be unfounded and still prevent you from doing something. As to what we do about it? We simply wait. We keep on despite her, to spite her. Show her this isn't the way to earn love and respect."

 

Hopefully that explains my viewpoint, but I'd be happy to clarify anything if it isn't clear.

[Sherem 4,807]

mostly I agree on the light you put celestia, a flawed mare pretending to be perfect. Defiently agreed, but my two points of "conflict" shall I say is that I really don't think Celestia is the reason that Equestria could be delayed in the technological matter or progress of Equestria also they way you portrayed her to be in the background you provided she sounds like a vilian and a backstabber to be honest...now about the slavery...I never felt...umm apropiate to put it into MLP world...somehow it just dosen't fit in my view but it is part of your lore and as such I have to respect it.

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

As it pertains to technological delay, I think I summarized it best here: "Can you imagine what it must be like to have a talent that is no longer useful? When what your good at has been replaced by something better? She's lied to you to keep you safe in her mind, safe from discovering bad things."

Fear of what the future holds causes her to pull back, let the other nations discover things, find out what works and what doesn't, so Equestria can only have the good without having to have the bad. And if it's any evidence, we see that Equestria hasn't changed much, if at all from when Granny Smith was a filly, so in the course of over a hundred years (If show quotes are to be believed Ponyville was founded over a hundred years before the show started, and Granny Smith was there as a filly, so she's Dumbledoor levels of old)

The backstory is mostly written from Midnight and Sir's points of view, which I can agree. They do think of her something of a backstabber and a villain. If I were to write it out more verbose I'd be sure to offer more light on Celestia's justifications for her actions.

As to slavery in mlp, we saw on screen the diamond dogs enslaving the mane six, while they were woefully incompetent at it they still had the tools and materials to do so, the fact they were rusted indicates that it'd been some time since they were last used or made, indicating that it had been a while since they did that. Furthermore it's all but confirmed that Sombra's rule involved the whole empire essentially being slaves to his will.

As it pertains to the zebras, I thought it ended up making the most sense as to why Applejack and Pinkie would actually be scared of them, as well as why there's next to no zebras in all of Equestria. I don't much like the idea either, but it plays a crucial part in many of my plot threads, and is why I had Sir and Midnight fight so hard against it.

[Sherem 4,807]

Okay let me rephrase that last part...I understand now that Slavery is part of the story, but Celestia allowing it? I mean Sombra was and is an evil character and it makes sense for him and even the diamond dogs who want only the gems...but It seems out of place for a ruler like celestia.

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

I can agree that it would be out of place for the Celestia we've been shown, but ponies change over time, and Celestia's had a thousand years to better herself since the slavery situation.

As to why it started in the first place, it comes down to a practice I'll call unity through exclusion. As we remember the three races hated each other before Celestia came along to bring them together, one way to stop infighting is to have an outsider to unify against, as such, and over time, Equestria became rather xenophobic as they continually pro-port their own superiority over the other races. It was an easy distinction to make at first, the griffons were violent and bloodthirsty, the minotaurs are large and similarly violent (Mostly they're ostracized because they eat meat), Thestrals fall in a similar boat. When they encountered the zebra it wasn't hard to classify them as lesser because they didn't speak Equestrian, and those that did did so in the strange rhyme scheme. They lacked most conventional magic so many assumed they were lesser and therefore worthy of exploitation.

I don't know if the full situation is explained in Equestria about the cows, but it looks a bit like slavery to me. Those that Applejack keeps don't seem to have freedom to travel or many other freedoms, so it could be seen as slavery as well, arguing that they may not be as capable are the same arguments that the old families would have used to justify enslaving the zebra.

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

3 hours ago, Sherem said:

This was a kingdom that was founded by those that were slaves under her rule

 

To clarify: Archback was founded by the Children of the Moon, Luna, and Midnight. Mohotma City, the neighboring nation which is united to them, was founded by the freed slaves.

No need to change anything as it's a distinction most outsiders would miss anyway, so it's understandable Celestia might not know that there is a difference between the two.

[Sherem 4,807]

hey got some questions if you don't mind regarding Sherem, would it be okay if you could answer them?

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

Of course! Go right ahead!

[Sherem 4,807]

Alright, do you think the white and grey on him is too monotonous for a crystal pony? now that you have experimented interactions with my oc's can you make a critic on how is he is as a character?

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

When I imagine the colors for a crystal pony I think of what mineral or gemstone they could represent and use those colors. For Sherem being white and grey is good as a relation to quartz, which is a fairly solid crystal but prone to corruption and impurity, which fits well with his character. If you're thinking of changing him up I'd suggest you find a mineral or gem that represents his personality and color him accordingly.

As to his character, He's subservient, which is not a bad thing by any means. He feels like he's broken on the inside, like he doesn't trust himself and fears for his own future which is perfectly understandable given what he's gone through. I hope that through his experiences he'll be able to heal from his traumas and regain a bit of self-confidence, be sure enough in himself to plan for the future and make decisions for his own benefit rather than simply relying on others to make decisions for him.

There is nothing about his character I would change at this time, I think he is well written and a very understandable character.

[Sherem 4,807]

On 6/7/2020 at 2:44 AM, Illiad Easle said:

When I imagine the colors for a crystal pony I think of what mineral or gemstone they could represent and use those colors. For Sherem being white and grey is good as a relation to quartz, which is a fairly solid crystal but prone to corruption and impurity, which fits well with his character. If you're thinking of changing him up I'd suggest you find a mineral or gem that represents his personality and color him accordingly.

As to his character, He's subservient, which is not a bad thing by any means. He feels like he's broken on the inside, like he doesn't trust himself and fears for his own future which is perfectly understandable given what he's gone through. I hope that through his experiences he'll be able to heal from his traumas and regain a bit of self-confidence, be sure enough in himself to plan for the future and make decisions for his own benefit rather than simply relying on others to make decisions for him.

There is nothing about his character I would change at this time, I think he is well written and a very understandable character.

thank you man, means a lot to have a real opinion around and to know I did a decent job here and there

[Sherem 4,807]

gotta be honest with you here, I love how much detail and thought you put to the bulding of the world and like I told you before this is the first time I ha such a developed partner in an RP, but I gotta admit to myself and to you I owe you to be honest and is getting a little bit overwhelming and that's why Is taking me so much to reply XD

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

If you want me to tone it back and ease up on the details I'd be happy to accommodate. It's most important that we both enjoy the story we have together.

I was honestly thinking of dropping the Celestia storyline until your latest post, it was quite the turn that I had not expected. 

[Sherem 4,807]

Thing is I also have to answer to the challenge I you are giving with your stories, you take the time to rp with me. That's why it takes me soo much to reply.

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

You don't need to worry so much, but I do appreciate the compliment. As I tell everyone else I prefer quality over quantity or quick replies.

[Sherem 4,807]

I gotta ask for help with this one, I have tried to go with a good reply but I just can't find it, I really need help here partner.

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

I assume you mean on the council side as I'm sure you can figure out Sherem in a bar.

Lets see here, how Celestia reacts depends on how she views changelings as a whole (Whether they can be trusted or not), and what she thinks is needed in order for the populous to trust the changelings as they are. Do the ponies need to see them transformed in order to trust them? Can they be convinced by simple public forums or official declarations? Perhaps there could be an exploratory delegation made, have some open minded ponies, trusted by the populous, learn from the changelings directly how they coexist with ponies and how their relationships are beneficial so that the population can understand that they are not parasites but symbiotes.

If Celestia is against the changelings things will be much more difficult, but she could demand that they submit to 'reformation' in order to prove that they are as cooperative as they say, or demand they leave Equestria until Chrysalis is brought to justice.

Let's look through what the delegates said and I'll give some alternative wording if it wasn't clear:

On 8/15/2020 at 10:45 PM, Illiad Easle said:

"The Queens' Council does not have an official standing with or against the Chrysalis hive changeling called Thorax or his actions or those who follow him. The Queens have stated to the council that Thorax is a rogue element, acting without the direction or blessing of the Queens, we will take no credit nor responsibility for his actions, they are his own."

Officially, the Queens' Council does not accept responsibility for Thorax. They don't know Celestia's relationship with him and are distancing themselves if the relationship is bad.

On 8/15/2020 at 10:45 PM, Illiad Easle said:

"In regards to this 'transformation' you speak of, changelings have lived in peaceful, secret, coexistence with ponies for millenia without this..." he shuddered "...perversion of the changeling state. The council asserts that no being need be required change their nature to be accepted, especially when their nature is not evil. No changeling is born evil, we do not thrive on pain nor violence, but rather by helping those we live with to thrive. Our nature is to adapt, to become whatever those around us need in order to be their best. So have we been for thousands of years, so we intend to continue."

First they assert that changelings and ponies have peacefully coexisted as they were, and would have continued as such had Chrysalis not attacked.

The ambassador personally sees the transformation as a perversion of their natural state.

The Council has asserted that no being is inherently evil, and as such need not change their nature in order to be accepted into civil society. This extends to say that carnivores need not become herbivores in order to be accepted. Excepting those cultures which are inherently evil, all cultures should be accepted and cherished as they are.

The council accepts that change and compromise may be needed, and are willing to adapt as the situation requires.

On 8/15/2020 at 10:45 PM, Illiad Easle said:

"This cannot happen so long as our kind are hunted and killed, nor should they be pressured to change themselves, abandon their heritage and birthright, in order to escape persecution."

They reassert that any such compromise must include the ceasing of injuries against them, and cannot obligate any to 'transform'.

Hopefully this helps, feel free to ask if anything is unclear or to clarify exactly what you need help with.

[Sherem 4,807]

29 minutes ago, Illiad Easle said:

On 8/16/2020 at 12:45 AM, Illiad Easle said:

 

Officially, the Queens' Council does not accept responsibility for Thorax. They don't know Celestia's relationship with him and are distancing themselves if the relationship is bad

seems to me this is a matter they do not know that is actually good and Thorax is acting good as a new leader, proof of this is the school of friendship and the character of Ocellus are in this regard. The school of friendship could be a bigger CC argument that could be related to this
 

30 minutes ago, Illiad Easle said:

First they assert that changelings and ponies have peacefully coexisted as they were, and would have continued as such had Chrysalis not attacked.

The ambassador personally sees the transformation as a perversion of their natural state.

The Council has asserted that no being is inherently evil, and as such need not change their nature in order to be accepted into civil society. This extends to say that carnivores need not become herbivores in order to be accepted. Excepting those cultures which are inherently evil, all cultures should be accepted and cherished as they are.

The council accepts that change and compromise may be needed, and are willing to adapt as the situation requires.

As for this matter, indeed she would not force them or demand them that they would reform and transform (and I get it a lot of the fandom hates this transformation) but in this regard it has proven that Equestria has a higher rate of acceptance to Changelings that undergo this process.
 

33 minutes ago, Illiad Easle said:

First they assert that changelings and ponies have peacefully coexisted as they were, and would have continued as such had Chrysalis not attacked.

The ambassador personally sees the transformation as a perversion of their natural state.

The Council has asserted that no being is inherently evil, and as such need not change their nature in order to be accepted into civil society. This extends to say that carnivores need not become herbivores in order to be accepted. Excepting those cultures which are inherently evil, all cultures should be accepted and cherished as they are.

The council accepts that change and compromise may be needed, and are willing to adapt as the situation requires.

in my vision this would be also pretty much how celestia views it, maybe there is little conflict there to be honest...but this sounds about right the alley of what I think Celestia is, even counting the "complex" of not wanting to feel useless and be forgotten, with I still think is not that much of true but I gotta admit there is bases for it that support it.

so far this is what I got.

 

[Illiad Easle 3,128]

@Sherem

6 hours ago, Sherem said:

seems to me this is a matter they do not know that is actually good and Thorax is acting good as a new leader, proof of this is the school of friendship and the character of Ocellus are in this regard. The school of friendship could be a bigger CC argument that could be related to this

Changelings are cautious by nature, they always wait until they are sure before acting or asserting anything. While they are aware both of the School and Ocellus (Who I will admit is very cute) they cannot get close enough to evaluate it and make an informed decision. Further, they could just as easily decide that it furthers the doctrine that only 'reformed' will most ponies accept them, which they do not find acceptable.

6 hours ago, Sherem said:

As for this matter, indeed she would not force them or demand them that they would reform and transform (and I get it a lot of the fandom hates this transformation) but in this regard it has proven that Equestria has a higher rate of acceptance to Changelings that undergo this process.

I'm one of those who dislikes the transformation, to me it implies that they are, by nature, duplicitous and evil. Further it seems to teach the lesson that one must change themselves and abandon their past in order to be accepted, something I can't agree with.

While it may be true that there is higher chance of acceptance, and many may choose to adopt a bug pony form form to reach that acceptance, it is not something I imagine most changelings will accept as a reasonable compromise.

Besides, Celestia isn't exactly in a position to demand anything.

6 hours ago, Sherem said:

so far this is what I got.

Sounds like you've got a good idea of it then. If you need more help then here's how I imagine you could have her respond:

Celestia would nod in understanding before she responded, "I see. You must understand that my ponies were in many cases traumatized by the attack, ponies are known to lash out when they feel threatened. Still, that does not excuse their actions against your constituents, I simply ask for some understanding as it may take some time for them to accept your presence. May I suggest a compromise? A sort of cooperation among our peoples? I could select a few ponies, trusted by the populous, to meet with and learn from some representatives of your kind. As our representatives interact it should show the rest that they have nothing to fear from your kind. In the meantime I will do what I can to ensure those propagating the violence are adequately punished. Do you find that acceptable?"

I think that works well for her, but you're free to have her answer as you will, although:

On 8/15/2020 at 5:13 PM, Sherem said:

She saw another opening with these Changelings but also a big problem as well

I don't know what you meant when you said that, so I can't reflect that into her response. If you can remember the opening and problem she foresaw that would be good to include in her response.

[Sherem 4,807]

14 hours ago, Illiad Easle said:

I don't know what you meant when you said that, so I can't reflect that into her response. If you can remember the opening and problem she foresaw that would be good to include in her response.

This means that she is seeing the holes in the unity of Archback, while not all the kingdoms are exactly affiliated or owe their loyalties to the government and authority of Sir. They all have their alligance to arch back, this are the holes that Celestia is finding, for what purpose? that is part of the surprise. Thanks for the help, I will try to make a paraphrasing of your reply so it can accommodate to it.