Why The Redemption Of Villains In MLP Should've Stopped

[YoungJustice12334 53]

My Favourite Mane 6 Pony

fluttershy

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---

I love MLP, But This is legit one of the Big problems with MLP now that I look back at the show. So many and too many of the villains often get made sympathetic and are quickly to be shoddily reformed with nary a second thought to give them consequences to their wrongdoings. Often their backstories don't give them any justification even to themselves for their actions when they come up and they come off more as parodies that we're supposed to take seriously.

One of the biggest problems with the theatrical movie is how throughly it pushes the idea that friendship can fix any problem, when in reality that's not how it works and that in many circumstances Friendship isn't the end-all solution to everything. Tempest Shadow for how she's the only character who's voice and animation perfectly compliments the movie, ends up becoming a flimsier version of Starlight when you take more than 5 minutes to analyze her sob story.

Ok, so, because she got crippled by a starbear as a kid and two fillies got scared of her deformity she turned evil at a moment's notice. I'm not making this up, that's literally what we witness! Did she even like, TRY to go to a doctor to get her horn fixed? In order to remedy this I'd have a lot more ponies ostracize Tempest for her disability and be scared of her for it, have the ability to do good magic rubbed in her face! Have her own parents WHINNY IN TERROR when they see what their daughter has become and abandon her! Hell, have the Doctor be scared witless and just kick her flank out of the hospital telling her "there's no fixing the likes of you!" Is it cruel and mean-spirited? YES! But doing something to this effect would give Tempest a more valid reason to join the Storm King in the first place.

Starlights main problem isn't just how ridiculous and stupid her backstory is for why she becomes an omnicidal maniac, but how in-Universe she has to constantly remind us what a horrible person she is. With Shadow Play this could NOT have been put in a worse episode! Starswirl himself was handled badly enough in comparison to the comics, but this just makes him a complete asshole to everyone because of Starlight having never learned a single solitary fucking thing since her reform. It's a terrible idea to mention you're a terrorist in front of someone who is essentially the GREATEST HERO IN EQUESTIRA! 

Again, if Hasbro is so intent on making us love Starlight by forcing her into so many episodes and down our throats, why do they have to keep reminding us of what a horrid character she actually is? How about making her, and I'm just throwing my shit at the wall to see what sticks: NOT HORRIBLE? Even the Pony of Shadows got hit with this bad with probably the worst redemption in the show, And he probably had the potential to be even greater than Tirek as a villain.

The only quickshot redemptions that have EVER WORKED in the series were Maybe Discord and Mostly Sunset Shimmer, the latter of whom isn't even directly involved with the main series! I've gone over how Keep Calm and Fluter On actually is a very good episode despite its issues and how reforming Discord worked out in the long run because while he was tamed he was still not a good guy in any sense of the word, but not truly evil. He's a troll and he's still a delightful troll even though he's mellowed out.

Sunset Shimmer is in every sense the perfect example of a reformed villain and everything they should be. Sunset doesn't have a tragic backstory or a woobie reason to have betrayed Celestia, she got jelly because she wasn't the chosen one and bitched off to human land. As weak as the first Equestria Girls movie was it did a great job of showing that Sunset wasn't malicious, but very very stupid evil and confused with her life. The subsequent movies give her major consequences for being a stupid bitch and she has to struggle and work towards proving she's changed after being hastily redeemed in the first film and she really has proven she's changed!

Whatever happened to just having villains who are evil just because? We had Tirek and then after that they got fucked up! Saturday morning cartoon villains can be loads of fun like Lord Hater, King Koopa, The Hooded Claw, Simon Bar Sinister, virtually every member of the Legion of Doom etc. I'm not saying sympathetic villains aren't good, they can be very good, but you have to know HOW TO MAKE THEM WORK! Characters like Jack Spicer and Mr. Freeze work because while you do feel sorry for them it's for the best they don't really become good guys because it would ruin what makes them so strong in the first place. They do evil things with their own reasons and goals in mind.

If what I've been hearing about season 8 is any indication I do not envy the return of Queen Chrysalis. In the comics they've done well to show there really is nothing redeeming about her, how ruthless and psychotic she really is. I still don't think you can beat A Canterlot Wedding for having the best villain song and reveal of the entire show because of her!

Edited March 28, 2020 by YoungJustice12334

[Coffee 4,323]

Hello and welcome to the forums!

[Misty Shadow 7,861]

Have a great time on the forums, I'm sure you'll love Season 9!

[Rikifive 24,171]

And with what was said above, I have moved this thread to Friendship is Magic Show Discussion. Welcome Plaza is for introducing yourself, so expect users to say "hi", instead of discussing. I believe you're looking for the latter, so placing your threads in correct spots may help you achieve this. 

Introducing yourself in the Welcome Plaza - Epic 
Discussing the show in the Welcome Plaza - Not Epic 

[TotallyNotNyx 15,566]

10 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

I love MLP, But This is legit one of the Big problems with MLP now that I look back at the show. So many and too many of the villains often get made sympathetic and are quickly to be shoddily reformed with nary a second thought to give them consequences to their wrongdoings. Often their backstories don't give them any justification even to themselves for their actions when they come up and they come off more as parodies that we're supposed to take seriously.

One of the biggest problems with the theatrical movie is how throughly it pushes the idea that friendship can fix any problem, when in reality that's not how it works and that in many circumstances Friendship isn't the end-all solution to everything. Tempest Shadow for how she's the only character who's voice and animation perfectly compliments the movie, ends up becoming a flimsier version of Starlight when you take more than 5 minutes to analyze her sob story.

Ok, so, because she got crippled by a starbear as a kid and two fillies got scared of her deformity she turned evil at a moment's notice. I'm not making this up, that's literally what we witness! Did she even like, TRY to go to a doctor to get her horn fixed? In order to remedy this I'd have a lot more ponies ostracize Tempest for her disability and be scared of her for it, have the ability to do good magic rubbed in her face! Have her own parents WHINNY IN TERROR when they see what their daughter has become and abandon her! Hell, have the Doctor be scared witless and just kick her flank out of the hospital telling her "there's no fixing the likes of you!" Is it cruel and mean-spirited? YES! But doing something to this effect would give Tempest a more valid reason to join the Storm King in the first place.

Starlights main problem isn't just how ridiculous and stupid her backstory is for why she becomes an omnicidal maniac, but how in-Universe she has to constantly remind us what a horrible person she is. With Shadow Play this could NOT have been put in a worse episode! Starswirl himself was handled badly enough in comparison to the comics, but this just makes him a complete asshole to everyone because of Starlight having never learned a single solitary fucking thing since her reform. It's a terrible idea to mention you're a terrorist in front of someone who is essentially the GREATEST HERO IN EQUESTIRA! 

Again, if Hasbro is so intent on making us love Starlight by forcing her into so many episodes and down our throats, why do they have to keep reminding us of what a horrid character she actually is? How about making her, and I'm just throwing my shit at the wall to see what sticks: NOT HORRIBLE? Even the Pony of Shadows got hit with this bad with probably the worst redemption in the show, And he probably had the potential to be even greater than Tirek as a villain.

The only quickshot redemptions that have EVER WORKED in the series were Maybe Discord and Mostly Sunset Shimmer, the latter of whom isn't even directly involved with the main series! I've gone over how Keep Calm and Fluter On actually is a very good episode despite its issues and how reforming Discord worked out in the long run because while he was tamed he was still not a good guy in any sense of the word, but not truly evil. He's a troll and he's still a delightful troll even though he's mellowed out.

Sunset Shimmer is in every sense the perfect example of a reformed villain and everything they should be. Sunset doesn't have a tragic backstory or a woobie reason to have betrayed Celestia, she got jelly because she wasn't the chosen one and bitched off to human land. As weak as the first Equestria Girls movie was it did a great job of showing that Sunset wasn't malicious, but very very stupid evil and confused with her life. The subsequent movies give her major consequences for being a stupid bitch and she has to struggle and work towards proving she's changed after being hastily redeemed in the first film and she really has proven she's changed!

Whatever happened to just having villains who are evil just because? We had Tirek and then after that they got fucked up! Saturday morning cartoon villains can be loads of fun like Lord Hater, King Koopa, The Hooded Claw, Simon Bar Sinister, virtually every member of the Legion of Doom etc. I'm not saying sympathetic villains aren't good, they can be very good, but you have to know HOW TO MAKE THEM WORK! Characters like Jack Spicer and Mr. Freeze work because while you do feel sorry for them it's for the best they don't really become good guys because it would ruin what makes them so strong in the first place. They do evil things with their own reasons and goals in mind.

If what I've been hearing about season 8 is any indication I do not envy the return of Queen Chrysalis. In the comics they've done well to show there really is nothing redeeming about her, how ruthless and psychotic she really is. I still don't think you can beat A Canterlot Wedding for having the best villain song and reveal of the entire show because of her!

My Favourite Mane 6 Pony: fluttershy

How did you find MLP Forums?: Google

How you became a fan of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic:

It's a children show. Chillax loool. If it was intended for an older audience, I'm sure that the storylines would have been darker and more exciting and there would be less sappy redemptions. But due to this being a show about friendship, you can't blame Hasbro for doing those redemptions. 

I'm sure that everyone would have loved more serious villains, but since it isn't the purpose of the show, I think that the writers have done a good job with most villains and indeed a great job with Discord and Sunset. The only villain that I really found useless was Cozy Glow but even then the idea of draining all the magic from Equestria was a good one. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Princess of Hearts ❤️❤️

[Megas 27,610]

A big problem with the show's redemptions is that they're often really lazy and half baked. You bring up Sunset, yet, it took them an entire movie to get any traction with it, had they left it after the first movie, it would have been just as shit as every other. 90% of the time they never feel earned, they're just half assed, with the ex villain getting woobied and saying sawwwwwy, then proceed to never see the consequences of their actions. Heck the biggest reason it worked for Sunset is because it does happen, everyone hated her, she still had to work for it. To this day I still think Gilda, Diamond Tiara and Tempest are the only good ones. Gilda's behavior was explained with her upbringing and culture being kinda bad, and it took her saving Dash and Pinkie, likewise with Diamond Tiara standing up to her mom. Heck, Twilight saving Tempest's life then her returning the favor and almost dying. Every other instance though, is kind of insulting, especially in S9

Spoiler

Thankfully S8 never redeemed her

Spoiler

unfortunately what she got instead wasn't much better

 

 

[YoungJustice12334 53]

I'm glad you agree, But I honestly didn't like it when Tempest and Starlight were redeemed. As for Gilda...Well, maybe, I'm somewhere In the middle with her redemption

You see, Starlight started off As a cult leader and She took control of the main character's minds along with the ponies of an isolated Village. In my opinion, she was A darker villain than Tirek because of that fact. No other villain in the show was equal to her power.

Where Discord and Tirek only took away strengths and one's right mind, she takes away a pony's entire purpose. A cutie mark is a special thing a pony earns once they've discovered who they truly are and what makes them themselves.

That talent is then weaved into their very DNA and exposed in the form of a cutie mark, literally becoming a part of who they are. This is why the Mane Six experienced such excruciating pain when their cutie marks were taken, it felt like someone ripping your very soul out.

Now if that isn't dark for you despite it being A kids show, then I don't know what is. What's really infuriating is the fact that once Starlight was "reformed", the ponies in the village she controlled were so quick and easy to forgive her.

The Mane 6 wouldn't forgive Discord, but they'll forgive Starlight just like that? It makes no sense.

I would have really liked to see her Starlight coming back to test Twilight's own philosophy and psychologically torment her and her friends, providing Twilight a proper obstacle to face after becoming the Princess of Friendship. I also think Sunburst becoming Twilight's student would have been better than Starlight and The Mean and Egotistical Trixie.

Just because it's a show for kids doesn't mean every villain should be redeemed. It may a show about friendship, but that doesn't mean I want every villain to have terribly-written redemptions. 

Like I said, One of the biggest problems with the theatrical movie is how it thoroughly pushes the idea that friendship can fix any problem, when in reality that's not how it works and that in many circumstances Friendship isn't the end-all solution to everything.

[Latecomer 439]

14 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

I love MLP, But This is legit one of the Big problems with MLP now that I look back at the show. So many and too many of the villains often get made sympathetic and are quickly to be shoddily reformed with nary a second thought to give them consequences to their wrongdoings. Often their backstories don't give them any justification even to themselves for their actions when they come up and they come off more as parodies that we're supposed to take seriously.

One of the biggest problems with the theatrical movie is how throughly it pushes the idea that friendship can fix any problem, when in reality that's not how it works and that in many circumstances Friendship isn't the end-all solution to everything. Tempest Shadow for how she's the only character who's voice and animation perfectly compliments the movie, ends up becoming a flimsier version of Starlight when you take more than 5 minutes to analyze her sob story.

Ok, so, because she got crippled by a starbear as a kid and two fillies got scared of her deformity she turned evil at a moment's notice. I'm not making this up, that's literally what we witness! Did she even like, TRY to go to a doctor to get her horn fixed? In order to remedy this I'd have a lot more ponies ostracize Tempest for her disability and be scared of her for it, have the ability to do good magic rubbed in her face! Have her own parents WHINNY IN TERROR when they see what their daughter has become and abandon her! Hell, have the Doctor be scared witless and just kick her flank out of the hospital telling her "there's no fixing the likes of you!" Is it cruel and mean-spirited? YES! But doing something to this effect would give Tempest a more valid reason to join the Storm King in the first place.

Starlights main problem isn't just how ridiculous and stupid her backstory is for why she becomes an omnicidal maniac, but how in-Universe she has to constantly remind us what a horrible person she is. With Shadow Play this could NOT have been put in a worse episode! Starswirl himself was handled badly enough in comparison to the comics, but this just makes him a complete asshole to everyone because of Starlight having never learned a single solitary fucking thing since her reform. It's a terrible idea to mention you're a terrorist in front of someone who is essentially the GREATEST HERO IN EQUESTIRA! 

Again, if Hasbro is so intent on making us love Starlight by forcing her into so many episodes and down our throats, why do they have to keep reminding us of what a horrid character she actually is? How about making her, and I'm just throwing my shit at the wall to see what sticks: NOT HORRIBLE? Even the Pony of Shadows got hit with this bad with probably the worst redemption in the show, And he probably had the potential to be even greater than Tirek as a villain.

The only quickshot redemptions that have EVER WORKED in the series were Maybe Discord and Mostly Sunset Shimmer, the latter of whom isn't even directly involved with the main series! I've gone over how Keep Calm and Fluter On actually is a very good episode despite its issues and how reforming Discord worked out in the long run because while he was tamed he was still not a good guy in any sense of the word, but not truly evil. He's a troll and he's still a delightful troll even though he's mellowed out.

Sunset Shimmer is in every sense the perfect example of a reformed villain and everything they should be. Sunset doesn't have a tragic backstory or a woobie reason to have betrayed Celestia, she got jelly because she wasn't the chosen one and bitched off to human land. As weak as the first Equestria Girls movie was it did a great job of showing that Sunset wasn't malicious, but very very stupid evil and confused with her life. The subsequent movies give her major consequences for being a stupid bitch and she has to struggle and work towards proving she's changed after being hastily redeemed in the first film and she really has proven she's changed!

Whatever happened to just having villains who are evil just because? We had Tirek and then after that they got fucked up! Saturday morning cartoon villains can be loads of fun like Lord Hater, King Koopa, The Hooded Claw, Simon Bar Sinister, virtually every member of the Legion of Doom etc. I'm not saying sympathetic villains aren't good, they can be very good, but you have to know HOW TO MAKE THEM WORK! Characters like Jack Spicer and Mr. Freeze work because while you do feel sorry for them it's for the best they don't really become good guys because it would ruin what makes them so strong in the first place. They do evil things with their own reasons and goals in mind.

If what I've been hearing about season 8 is any indication I do not envy the return of Queen Chrysalis. In the comics they've done well to show there really is nothing redeeming about her, how ruthless and psychotic she really is. I still don't think you can beat A Canterlot Wedding for having the best villain song and reveal of the entire show because of her!

My Favourite Mane 6 Pony: fluttershy

How did you find MLP Forums?: Google

How you became a fan of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic:

Later seasons feature both redemptions and unredeemed, evil villains, both of which have proved quite controversial. It will be intersting to see uour opinion after catching up.

[Rumpelstiltskin 45]

I honestly didn't have any problems with the redemptions. I mean, when she first appeared I thought Starlight was possibly the most evil villain the show ever had, and yeah, her back story could've been done better, but the way she turned out after her redemption made it hard for me to dislike her. As for Tempest, I interpreted her bitterness and dislike of other ponies by coming up with the theory that she used to be a magical prodigy before her accident and she felt she no longer had a place among Equestrians because she lost she thought was her most important aspect. 

 

My big problem with the final season was how they wasted what could've been potentially the most organic redemption of all with the Legion of Doom, coming together after they'd been broken and defeated during the course of the show and starting out to get revenge but along the way discovering something better--their bond with each other. Instead we got Discord acting like a sociopath and getting away treating people like pawns like he used to do, which sort of backtracked his reformation.  

[Rushing cash 836]

Lets see what were the redemption's and what I think of them:

Nightmare moon: not really a redemption since they obliterated her with the elements, NM was not reformed but luna was freed and from the whole experience reformed. Thats how I see it, its all down to how you view NM relation to luna. 

Discord: Came as a surprise, and caused many problems, like how to not make discord a deus ex machina. It worked, I like the idea that discord is a chaotic neutral, but it could have been dealt with better, and probably it would be easier and maybe better without this redemption. I am okay with the reformation, but its not the best to say the least.

Starlight Glimmer: the backstory pretty weak but it works for her. She was such a good villain and had immense potential but I loved her as supporting character a lot too. The worst part was how easily everyone forgave her, the song in the last minutes of season was unnecessary and actually harmful. Overall, I like the reformation. Plus I really like her friendship with trixie, a lot.

Stygion: Interesting backstory but not really unique, and as a villain very weak and he didn't play an important role after his redemption so it was mainly for stralights arc. 

Tempest: I really would have preferred if she was the main villain, and just used the storm king instead, I don't hate the redemption but I was disappointed but not surprised.

Neighsay: he wasn't really a big villain, he just had bias(understandable biases considering what happened prior) against non ponies, but while misguided he had equestrias best interests at heart. I was okay with this.

The rest like trixie, diamond tiara and gilda were minor villains, I didn't mind their redemptions.

The show maybe overdid the redemption's, but it wasn't bad, it didn't hurt the quality of the show. EG on the other hand... 

[Splashee 28,563]

I am almost positive the show's staff realized this and made sure the three bad guys at the end were turn into stone rather than being reformed.

Many many MANY fans have been screaming "don't reform!". I think the staff finally head it.

[Latecomer 439]

16 minutes ago, Super Splashee said:

I am almost positive the show's staff realized this and made sure the three bad guys at the end were turn into stone rather than being reformed.

Many many MANY fans have been screaming "don't reform!". I think the staff finally head it.

Although that was rather poorlu done too... and other parts of vhe last season had cheap redemptions.

[nightshroud96 124]

14 hours ago, Latecomer said:

Although that was rather poorlu done too... and other parts of vhe last season had cheap redemptions.

And that's what made the whole "the trio don't get to reform" bit really iffy honestly.

For me, it bothers me how the writers are willing to make many bending/turns to reform these certain villains but for Chrysalis, she has to be screwed over for the sake of "not everyone can reform" and to satisfy those who were sick of reformations(most likely they were sick of how iffy said reformations were done).
Chrysalis is a good villain but I rather see her reform than ending up suffering a essentially a fate worse than death, especially with how the writers are willing to make all these reformations left and right. (Doesn't help that its a certain chaos spirit's fault on her ending up being a threat again and going off the deep end further.)

 

[Latecomer 439]

4 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

And that's what made the whole "the trio don't get to reform" bit really iffy honestly.

For me, it bothers me how the writers are willing to make many bending/turns to reform these certain villains but for Chrysalis, she has to be screwed over for the sake of "not everyone can reform" and to satisfy those who were sick of reformations(most likely they were sick of how iffy said reformations were done).
Chrysalis is a good villain but I rather see her reform than ending up suffering a essentially a fate worse than death, especially with how the writers are willing to make all these reformations left and right. (Doesn't help that its a certain chaos spirit's fault on her ending up being a threat again and going off the deep end further.)

 

I was hoping the trio wouldn't reform myself, but I guess I learned "be careful what you wish for".

[nightshroud96 124]

5 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

I was hoping the trio wouldn't reform myself, but I guess I learned "be careful what you wish for".

Honestly I was hoping Spike wouldn't get shafted big time in the finale, thankfully he didn't get shafted but sadly at the expense of the royal sisters weren't.. handled good enough.
So I guess the "be careful what you wish for" bit applies to that too.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

We've been talking about the shitty redemptions so much in the past years that we've pretty much cremated this beaten, dead horse. All we can do now is bash the urn and stomp on the ashes. So I'll just add this little sliver of dark wisdom: villains and opposition in general is fun to have for an imaginary world. The stable opposition can be anything from alpha bitch cheerleader, that annoying gym class teacher, to a dark lord with vast armies under their disposal.

[Latecomer 439]

3 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

Honestly I was hoping Spike wouldn't get shafted big time in the finale, thankfully he didn't get shafted but sadly at the expense of the royal sisters weren't.. handled good enough.
So I guess the "be careful what you wish for" bit applies to that too.

Heu, if anyone got the shaft, it was the CMC. Although being ignored might be better than how the sisters were treated.

2 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

We've been talking about the shitty redemptions so much in the past years that we've pretty much cremated this beaten, dead horse. All we can do now is bash the urn and stomp on the ashes. So I'll just add this little sliver of dark wisdom: villains and opposition in general is fun to have for an imaginary world. The stable opposition can be anything from alpha bitch cheerleader, that annoying gym class teacher, to a dark lord with vast armies under their disposal.

 

I'm actuallu going to say that FIM is an exception there - there's a reason threats are usuallu defeated as soon as theu're established. Equestria is supposed to be a safe, secure place most of the time - the better for us to enjoy the chracters dau-to-dau lives without worry.

(And the one most recurring antagonist, a pair of school bullies, grew tiresome to some fairly quickly.)

[Goat-kun 2,527]

32 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Heu, if anyone got the shaft, it was the CMC. Although being ignored might be better than how the sisters were treated.

I'm actuallu going to say that FIM is an exception there - there's a reason threats are usuallu defeated as soon as theu're established. Equestria is supposed to be a safe, secure place most of the time - the better for us to enjoy the chracters dau-to-dau lives without worry.

Every kid show fantasy land is supposed to be safe and secure place most of the time so I fail to see any relevance in your argument, especially since Equestria isn't the only place on the map. And, as I've said, there are also gym teachers and cheerleaders. Can't go wrong with the classics!

32 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

(And the one most recurring antagonist, a pair of school bullies, grew tiresome to some fairly quickly.)

Yes, but that's someone's subjective opinion, isn't it? Are you committing heresy against your core beliefs again? Damn son, be consistent

[Latecomer 439]

2 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Every kid show fantasy land is supposed to be safe and secure place most of the time so I fail to see any relevance in your argument, especially since Equestria isn't the only place on the map. And, as I've said, there are also gym teachers and cheerleaders. Can't go wrong with the classics!

 

Yes, but that's someone's subjective opinion, isn't it? Are you committing heresy against your core beliefs again? Damn son, be consistent

 

Well, a good antagonist does usual make for a better show than a boring one, at least. But I don't think MLP needs persistent ones - some of the best eps are when all conflict is between simpathetic protagonists.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

1 hour ago, Latecomer said:

Well, a good antagonist does usual make for a better show than a boring one, at least. But I don't think MLP needs persistent ones - some of the best eps are when all conflict is between simpathetic protagonists.

Everything that's "good" is subjective by your own standards. And now you come to me saying that there is such a thing as a good antagonist, and that you kinda feel like FIM shouldn't have persistent ones cause reasons? Yes, there is such a thing as a good antagonist, and MLP can do a lot by min/maxing; however, I couldn't care less for your opinion. Talking to someone who understands every opinion as subjective and equal except their own is a waste of time.

[Latecomer 439]

43 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Everything that's "good" is subjective by your own standards. And now you come to me saying that there is such a thing as a good antagonist, and that you kinda feel like FIM shouldn't have persistent ones cause reasons? Yes, there is such a thing as a good antagonist, and MLP can do a lot by min/maxing; however, I couldn't care less for your opinion. Talking to someone who understands every opinion as subjective and equal except their own is a waste of time.

 

I don' t really understand half of what you're talking about here, but if you're so uniterested in mi opinion, then i'd recommend against quoting mi posts.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

25 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

I don' t really understand half of what you're talking about here, but if you're so uniterested in mi opinion, then i'd recommend against quoting mi posts.

It means you can't defecate your heart on a platter and expect people to take it as common sense. I don't care if someone likes a character, episode, or show. If it's a debate they need to prove that it's good, not with their feelings, but with facts and theories reinforced with examples.

[Latecomer 439]

1 minute ago, Goat-kun said:

It means you can't defecate your heart on a platter and expect people to take it as common sense. I don't care if someone likes a character, episode, or show. If it's a debate they need to prove that it's good, not with their feelings, but with facts and theories reinforced with examples.

 

But uou just state things without backing them up all the time. Like here.

8 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

We've been talking about the shitty redemptions so much in the past years that we've pretty much cremated this beaten, dead horse. All we can do now is bash the urn and stomp on the ashes. So I'll just add this little sliver of dark wisdom: villains and opposition in general is fun to have for an imaginary world. The stable opposition can be anything from alpha bitch cheerleader, that annoying gym class teacher, to a dark lord with vast armies under their disposal.

 

I mean, I agree antagonists can be a boon to a storu, but that's me just sharing uour opinion.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

Well, MLP should have stopped relying on big events of world ending scenarios and focused more on little pony stuff like a party going wrong or a messed up dress or just friendship. Canterlot invasion sounds interesting the first time, but several more times are just ridiculous (and the princesses and Discord doesn't help for obvious reasons) and loses it's impact. Later seasons tried to explain themselves, tried to explain their unintended mess with afterthoughts like creating Canterlot defense system and including princesses, pillairs and Discord in the premiere/finale, but we all know what happened.

I think the first two seasons were fine because they were more about the characters we care, but later on, I think they got too carried away and started to focus more on the spectacle (and amazed by themselves of how big they could go for a girls cartoon TV show, which is ironic) and took themselves too seriously.

The redeeming villain problem comes from the need for conflict without necessity. First they needed a big fight and adventures, so they created new (or returning) villains, and they end up in a same kind of conclusion because the character was expendable, uninspired and they were aiming for the same kind of result in the first place.

Another example : Naruto

[Latecomer 439]

1 minute ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

Well, MLP should have stopped relying on big events of world ending scenarios and focused more on little pony stuff like a party going wrong or a messed up dress or just friendship. Canterlot invasion sounds interesting the first time, but several more times are just ridiculous (and the princesses and Discord doesn't help for obvious reasons) and loses it's impact. Later seasons tried to explain themselves, tried to explain their unintended mess with afterthoughts like creating Canterlot defense system and including princesses, pillairs and Discord in the premiere/finale, but we all know what happened.

I think the first two seasons were fine because they were more about the characters we care, but later on, I think they got too carried away and started to focus more on the spectacle (and amazed by themselves of how big they could go for a girls cartoon TV show, which is ironic) and took themselves too seriously.

The redeeming villain problem comes from the need for conflict without necessity. First they needed a big fight and adventures, so they created new (or returning) villains, and they end up in a same kind of conclusion because the character was expendable, uninspired and they were aiming for the same kind of result in the first place.

Another example : Naruto

Most of the seasons are devoted to the other stuff - the epic conflicts are only at the beginning and end, and even than not always.