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general Origin of Christmas discussion


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Disclaimer: this topic is in no way meant to cause offense to, frighten, discourage or convert anyone. The purpose of this discussion is to share information and have civil discussion. All opinions are to be treated respectfully. Thank you.

So with that out of the way, let’s get onto it. I’ve always shied away from celebrating holidays and wondered why they are celebrated by others the way they are- what the purpose of it all is. Especially around Christmas, all the stress and anxiety it puts a lot of people under just didn’t seem worth it to me. I have enough of that without the holidays, thank you. 

And it doesn’t take long to pop a quick “origins of Christmas” search into your favorite browser to give you all the information that you need (provided that you commit to fact checking and cross referencing for historical accuracy). But it never ceases to educate me when I find something new or to serve as a reminder about the still widely practiced and accepted traditions that this holiday was taken from, every year. I would certainly like to discuss that with you all here, today. 

(Warning!!!! Lengthy post ahead!!!!)

The History of Christmas Practices

(source: https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Hebrew_Roots/Neglected_Commandments/Idolatry/Christmas_trees )

The counterfeit mystery religion of Babylon which began with the worship of Ishtar (Isis - Astarte - Ashtaroth -Easter) found expression in many different forms in the different cultures of the world under many different names, but the essence of the false worship was the same. It was based on a substitute salvation and redemption message that used the gratification of man's natural five senses and their fleshly desires. Nimrod and his mother were the originators of this worship upon earth.

Yahweh God instructs us to make no image or likeness of anything which is in heaven or upon earth to worship them as well as not worshipping actual idols. Exodus 20: 3-4

Satan always attempts to be LIKE the Most High - so he duplicates a redemption story similar to the plan of God with a Saviour figure who is the Redeemer of mankind, but the worship he institutes is by symbolic representation in physical objects.

The Babylonians, in their popular religion, worshiped a goddess mother and a son, represented in pictures and images as a mother with her son in her arms! From Babylon this worship of the mother and her childspread to the ends of the earth. The original Babylonian mother goddess was Semiramis. The adored little child in her arms was Ninus (Nimrod/Tammuz), the son. This same little child was also signified as the husband of Semiramis! 

After the decline of Babylon, the religion was transported to Egypt where they worshiped Isis and her son Osiris (otherwise known as Horus). The same mother and child deities appeared in Pagan Rome as Fortuna and Jupiter, and in Greece as Ceres, the Great Mother, with the babe at her breast, or as Irene, the goddess of Peace, with the boy Plutus in her arms. Mithras, known as a god of light, was regarded as a sun-god or rather the "unconquerable Sun god" This was adopted by the Holy Roman Empire as the worship of Mary as the Madonna and child. The exaltation of Mary as the “Mother of God” was proclaimed at the Council of Ephesus in 431 A.D. In Babylon she was called Beltis “the God Mother” or in Latin it was Mea Domina. Madonna is nothing more than a corrupted form of Mea Domina.

The Sun is recognised as the Supreme Giver of Life and so most of the practices associated with Common Sense revolves around the sun in its function of bringing forth life in the earth and man's dependence upon it for sustenance.

African Spirituality invented sun-worship. For about 4,000+ years, people have celebrated the Sun’s "re-birth" at the winter solstice. (1.) The winter solstice, being the shortest day-light day of the year, has been a focal point in the worship of pagan deities in that it centred around the physical sun being at its lowest ebb, apparently near death, at this time of the year and needing to be 'reborn'. Supposedly it is the time when the forces of chaos which stand against the return of light and life must be defeated by the gods with the assistance of the people through the ordained religious rituals.

December the 25th was the day originally determined in the Roman Empire as the winter solstice (in 46 AD)-which, being the Julian Calendar not the current Gregorian calendar was not our current December 25th. It was January 5 that was the celebration of the 'birthday' or "Nativity of the Sun" and it was not until much later that a calendar revision changed it to December 21st , but regardless of the change the significance and festivities that had been centred on that day, remained. The tradition of Mithra as the sun-god had come to Rome from Persia and in 274 AD the 25th December was established as the festival of the Invincible Sun by the Emperor Aurelian. This was carried forward by the Emperor Constantine who embraced "Christianity" in its outward form as a state religion. He carried forward the old festivities of Mithraism injecting into them "Christian" concepts and names. When Emperor Constantine decreed Christianity as the new faith of the Roman Empire, early in the fourth century, he gave the holiday an entirely new name and an entirely new meaning. The Pagans had no difficulty worshipping the Catholic Madonna and child because they were just seen as another manifestation of the Queen of Heaven and her son, so it was no compromise for them.

They called the holiday the Mass of Christ, or Christ Mass, which was shortened to Christmas. And they declared that Christmas was the birthday of Jesus of Nazareth and conducted it as a pagan ritual sacrifice of “the body and blood of Jesus,” It is a re-enactment of and celebration of His death every time a Mass is offered. The Mass has its origin in witchcraft.

Britons and Celts, Europe, Indians and Egyptians were all part of the Roman Empire at one time. These nations brought their own sun-worshipping traditions to join into the empire-wide celebration. All the people in this Empire, save only a few... gathered in their homes to drink wine... to dance and sing... to light their candles and exchange presents... giving their children the little clay dolls that represented their former human sacrifices to the god Saturn! Eating to excess in festive meals, drinking, sexual indulgence in fertility rites and general debauchery were the norm.

The three days of religious observance in "Christinaity" - Sun-day, Easter (Ishtar) and "Christmas have their origin in Mithraic, sun-worship, and were introduced into what became the Catholic church at this time. Constantine outlawed Sabbath observance which had continued up till this time and introduced the fertility rites of Ishtar (eggs and bunnies) into the Passover observance of Christ's death and resurrection.

Xmas Trees It was an early Babylonian custom to go out and place a gift on a tree at the winter solstice (Dec. 25th) as an offering to Tammuz/Nimrod, who was after his death, believed to be the sun. In ancient Babylon these gifts were placed in the groves on the winter solstice. 

The "Christmas trees" represented Nimrod to the ancient sun-worshipers (Jer. 10:2-5), and sunrise worship services involving "branches" were even found in Ezek. 8:17, where the priests turned toward the sun with their backs to Yahweh's Temple.

Many Pagan cultures used to cut boughs of evergreen trees in December, move them into the home or temple, and decorated them, often with gold balls. Modern-day Pagans still do. The evergreen trees came to symbolize the everlasting life and resurrection power of the god they worshiped, who originally was Nimrod. 

He came to be incorporated into many cultures under different names. So the evergreen tree became representative of Nimrod the sun-god himself and it was a form of worship and veneration of the sun-god to take it into one's home and place gifts to him at it's base. Hence the tradition of placing gifts at the base of this altar to the sun-god. Putting tinsel around the tree comes from the practice of tying a ribbon around the tree as a prayer to the sun.

A similar practice referred to in scripture was raising an obelisk (a phallic symbol) next to a tree as an altar for the god represented by the tree. This was called an asherah (pillar) and was forbidden to God's people. Deut 7: 5; 16:21; Jer.10:2-4

The Asherim were considered altars, where animals and humans were ritually sacrificed. This altar was often a tree stump, with the trunk snapped-off, leaving jagged spike-like splinters. The Christmas tree phenomenon is also a type of altar, where gifts and offerings are placed. 

The solstice tree is drawn directly from the Pagan worship, rendered for public consumption. Tree worship is the most prominent feature, however the serpent gets involved also. It seems that the adversary has the tree and the serpent seared into "his" mind indelibly. A serpent around a stump is one of the symbols we find used in ancient Pagan religions. The Tree of Life (ets chayim) and the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil may be the sources this fallen being is borrowing from in the design of the false worship.

Wreaths Garlands of greenery were also hung on the doors of homes as emblems of the sun. Every good sun-worshiper had a round wreath on the door of their home. The use of holly and of making wreaths of laurel branches twisted into a circle was a symbol of the sun. Nimrod was associated with greenery who was worshiped as the sun idol after he was slain and the wreaths made into round solar shapes were emblems of him. Everyone exchanged gifts, and drunken partying was everywhere. 

The color RED was also symbolic for the sun, bringing to mind HEAT. That is the reason for the combination of green and red in the "Christmas" theme. 

Santa The original 'Santa' was 2' tall (well able to slide down chimneys), wore green, had a long white beard and was a leprechaun with magical powers. This figure was imported from Irish and Dutch sources and renovated from the Druidic form and transformed into a full-sized jolly plump man dressed in red and white to advertise Coca-cola in late 19th century early 20th century. The original supposed 3rd century story of St. Nicholas (in Holland) never had anything to do with elves, chimneys and flying reindeer. It is claimed that he was a bishop, but Holland was steeped in barbaric Druidic rites at this time until the 8th century and there is nothing to substantiate it being other than a fairly recent legend. Similar legends are in other cultures. The fireplace was the most sacred spot in pagan homes and he flew horned beasts at night into their fireplaces.

The hanging up of a stocking and exchanging kisses under the mistletoe comes from the witchcraft practices of Druidism.

Who is this mystical figure that focuses in the celebration of the birthday of the sun? If you re-arrange the letters of his name (Santa) you get S-A-T-A-N, the one behind all religious practices that do not align with the Word of God.


(congratulations on making it to the end! I realize that this, again, is a massive post, but as this contains a plethora of information, I hope that this discussion was easy to the readers in bite sized portions that can be taken in, thought upon, researched, and returned to at many different times.)

Discussion points: 

Do the origins of this holiday intrigue anyone else? What point of Christmas origin most interested you? 
Have you ever given pause and inquire why things are celebrated as they are? Do you celebrate Christmas traditionally, give it your own unique traditions, or not at all?
How likely are you to research, some or all of the information presented from the specified source material? 

  • Brohoof 1
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You've gotta be careful. Here's a couple of articles from Snopes: Easter did not come from 'Ishtar' and Santa was not transformed by Coca Cola.

Nevertheless, it is undeniable that what we call "Christmas" is not the birth of Jesus nor are its traditions of such. I remember learning in even Music History I about how the Catholic calendar set these events up by the seasons, thus Jesus's birth on the Winter Solstice and Jesus's death and rising when Spring began. No knowledge of the timing of either event was ever taken into account for these, apparently. It was just based on seasons, to be symbolic, or perhaps to impress the masses into thinking that there was some rhyme and reason for what was happening around them (since scientific understanding wasn't a thing yet).

The reason for the season is the Winter Solstice, no doubt. Evergreen trees are a sign of life and fertility during a time where all of the rest of nature is dormant. It needs no religious backing. I love celebrating the Winter Solstice, and will never be told that it is a celebration just for Christians when the Christian part of it was just tacked on over many, many centuries.

Edited by Envy
  • Brohoof 2
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My dad was a crazy overzealous Christian, and even he always told me that Jesus was not born on Christmas Day. :ButtercupLaugh: Everyone knows Christmas is adapted from a pagan holiday, the Catholic Church wanted people to believe it was around Christmas when he was born to attract more worshippers. There is no way to determine his exact birth date. 

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Is there a mythology that does not have its own versions of "Jesus" and "Christmas"? It is not then that Christmas originates from a mythology but rather that all these holydays have their origin in the winter solstice.


However, when we look at Santa, I do believe that he originates from Norse mythology. His true name is Odin, and in winter times he is riding around on his eight-legged horse Sleipnin dispatching evil. In times of yore folks have been stuffing their socks with hay in order to feed Sleipnin, hence we now have the habit of hanging socks over our hearths. As for the red and white that Santa is wearing, it most likely originates from Amanita muscaria. Even today, this magic mushroom not only remains a Christmas motive, but it is also connected to reindeer as they like to get high (or fly if you may), and shamans who still dress in red clothes with white spots in Siberia. It's also why Santa lives all the way up on the North Pole. He's a local.


Christmas at its core is a bodacious pagan gal dressed as a nun. Nothing points towards this reasoning more than "Christmas devils" like Krampus that have survived as holiday figures from old pagan traditions. In the end, Coca-Cola has done the same thing as the Church: they have taken a mythological figure and stamped their brand's name on it. Perhaps it's a bit funny that consoomerism has likely managed to make Christmas more in line with how it used to be.

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The history of Christmas and its pagan origins especially are fascinating - Saturnalia, the base for modern Christmas celebrations, is itself derived from Kronia, an ancient Greek festival taking place in late July-early August (so, in a sense, Christmas in July :P ). BUT the Greeks also had a winter solstice celebration - Posidea.

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