Why are there more pro-Twilicorns than anti-Twilicorns?

[Jessper 735]

Honestly, why you have to be pro-anything. World isn't black and white - we really don't have to split into two fanatical groups and wage war for all eternity (or at least until S4 comes).

 

But I'm also okay with it. You can't do anything about it, just as the panic before the episode was for nothing and frankly, kinda awkward. It's definitely a weird decision, because it really kills any sense of balance in the Mane 6 and I'm not honestly sure how do you continue with Twilly as a princess, but really make me wonder how that will turn up. Who knows, maybe they did it to ensure everyone watching MLP will watch S4 too, just to see how will it go.

[Commander_PonyShep 349]

I'm personally optimistic about Twilight's ascension, but overall neutral on it.  I'm reserving judgment for Season 4.

 

To the OP, I have just one point and a question:

 

First, you said what I've seen a lot of people say about this: That Twilight becoming an alicorn means the end of the road for her development.  Personally, I disagree - it does represent a big change for her and the rest of the Mane 6, but change is natural in any journey.  It doesn't automatically mean she's learned everything there is to know - far from it, IMO.  I think one of the reasons you see so many people on the "Pro-Alicorn" side is that you have a lot of people holding high hopes for her to explore whole new areas of development that she might not otherwise have had available to her.  And as a result, the show can gain new life.

 

And now my question: You said you will always hate this idea, and that you don't have any intention of changing your mind.  I just want to ask: Why are you inviting discussion on it, then?  If you don't want to debate and be open to considering opposing viewpoints, what's the point of posting?

 

EDIT> I also wanted to say something on the finale in particular: The way I see it, there's a big difference between opposing Twilight's ascension on the grounds that being an Alicorn is wrong for her, the Mane 6, or the show as a whole, and being against it because of the way it was portrayed.  Many people agree that the finale was rushed and felt sloppy and incoherent as a result of cramming two episodes worth of content into a 22-minute musical.  But that's just bad execution - if it had been done in two episodes or an hour-long special or something like that, and they'd taken the time to tell the story more coherently, would that have changed your opinion about her being an alicorn?

 

I think that's the real question here.  From where I'm sitting, there are more people upset by the way the finale was handled than by the story being told in it.

That's my other problem. It wasn't just Princess Twilicorn alone, but also the way it was so badly handled at the end of the S3 finale. They turned Twilight into a princess, but had to reserve the questions and answers for the S4 premiere, all the way down to whether or not it's a permanent change. Not to mention, why would Twilight become a princess, if she accidentally switched her friends' cutie-marks, which was irresponsible and unprincess-like?

[Pixel Stick 927]

That's my other problem. It wasn't just Princess Twilicorn alone, but also the way it was so badly handled at the end of the S3 finale. They turned Twilight into a princess, but had to reserve the questions and answers for the S4 premiere, all the way down to whether or not it's a permanent change. Not to mention, why would Twilight become a princess, if she accidentally switched her friends' cutie-marks, which was irresponsible and unprincess-like?

So your problem is in how it was portrayed, and if they'd done a better job answering those questions, you might be more in favor of this idea?

 

On the "saving questions for later": there's a lot of evidence that the finale had already been at least partly finished as a series finale when Season 4 was announced. I imagine this meant they had to scramble to alter it so it would allow for any sort of continuity, and they probably just didn't have time to rework it properly, nor the budget to extend the season by another episode. I think they can be forgiven for poor execution if it turns out this was a result of Hasbro changing their timetable so unexpectedly. Doesn't mean it's not a bad episode, but we need to consider some alternative ideas to just "They got lazy".

 

On "un-princesslike": you make it sound as though Twilight did that on purpose. She was unaware of Starswirl's incomplete spell's effects until after it was cast, and the important part is that she corrected the destiny swap and completed the spell. They made no small point about this being a monumental feat, the likes of which hadn't been seen since Starswirl himself. That apparently is the very definition of "princesslike".

 

Again, if they had done a better job actually explaining this and making it something we could believe and care about, I think there would be far fewer people crying bloody murder over Twilight's ascension.

[Yes-Man 597]

What the fuck are you talking about? There's WAY more anti-Twilicorns running around and complaining about it.

 

As for me, I like this change. It was poorly handled, but we WERE shouting and bitching at DHX in the period between S2 and S3.

[~Chaotic Fireball~ 499]

No, they didn't drop it out of nowhere, they've been dropping hints about it since the season premiere. That whole two parter was a test for Twilight, remember? Plus this:

 

Wow! I thought I was the only one who watched the S3 premier over again and realised that teh book was teh same one in the S3 ending. Just saying.

[Emerald Burst 0]

Twilight becoming a princess was always going to happen. If you do a little research, you'll find that Lauren had originally came up with the idea and had planned to make it cannon sometime in the future. Though I don't like it personally. 

[Shanks 10,816]

Twilight becoming a princess was always going to happen. If you do a little research, you'll find that Lauren had originally came up with the idea and had planned to make it cannon sometime in the future. Though I don't like it personally. 

Yeah and that dosen't surprise me though I highly doubt it was her intent to do it this soon, I would probably have mixed feelings if I was Lauren. Some pride that I had created something good but some dread and worry that my creation might end up being ruined while trying to hold out hope for the best.

[poniesforfun 716]

What the fuck are you talking about? There's WAY more anti-Twilicorns running around and complaining about it.

 

As for me, I like this change. It was poorly handled, but we WERE shouting and bitching at DHX in the period between S2 and S3.

There's been plenty of polls being done and most people are ok with the change. I thought the change was something that should be done near the end of the series. Or a different way to do this...

Edited February 24, 2013 by poniesforfun

[DusK 1,264]

How did that ruin the show?

It didn't, that was the point I'm getting at. People freaking out over Twilicorn are no different than the people who thought the removal of exclusive rights for her to write Celestia letters was going to break the show.

[Wubsie 1,123]

You're always going to be anti-Twilicorn? Even though she's only spent three damn minutes as an alicorn? Even though you've not seen her status as an alicorn applied to any episodes?

 

Riddle me this: how do you know Twilicorn is bad when it's not even been put into practice? Why aren't you following life lessons from the show as any brony should do, one of them being to always hope for the best and maintain optimism?

Couldn't have said it any better, took the words right out of my mouth.

We haven't seen what Season 4 is going to do with AliTwi yet, so give it a chance.

Edited February 24, 2013 by ~Edd~

[Pokota 28]

and make her run an entire nation as princess of Equestria

Okay, where are you getting this information from? As far as I'm aware, both Celestia and Luna are still alive and kicking, and none of the princesses do any real ruling that we've seen. Yeah, Celestia and Luna move the Sun and Moon, but that can be done without them.

But, what's worse than that, is me being heavily outnumbered by the vast majority of pro-Twilicorns out there. I've noticed that every time I complain about Princess Twilicorn, too many more people argue that they're okay with Twilight getting wings and a title, and that it should be permanent. I was hoping that there would be hundreds of other anti-Twilicorns out there who agree with me, and believe that the writers should change her back to a unicorn for the S4 premiere. Unfortunately, all I keep getting are pro-Twilicorns, and I deeply, deeply despise it.

With how you're reacting, you'd think that this is on the same level as Harry canonically being a Horcrux and marrying Ginny. The reason you're "outnumbered" by the pro-Twilicorns is that the pro-Twilicorns aren't panicking, but are instead deciding to see what the writers do with this.

So really, why are there more pro-Twilicorns than anti-Twilicorns? What's the appeal to what's supposed to be jumping the shark? Isn't that the equivalent of actually being okay with Shadow the Hedgehog wielding guns, Sonic mating with a human-girl, and Sonic turning into a werehog, even though all three were bad ideas marred by lousy execution?

I'm guessing you're one of those Sonic the Hedgehog fans who thinks that any Sonic game that wasn't on the Sega Genesis is crap.

If they had no problem making Twilight a princess, why couldn't they turn Rainbow Dash into a Wonderbolt? Or turn Rarity into a famous fashion-designer in Canterlot? Or give the Cutie-Mark Crusaders their cutie-marks for once? How come only one character gets any character-development at all, but not the rest of the cast?

Twilight's dream in life was not to be a Princess (as far as has been revealed; I will be shocked and appalled if she seriously had that as a dream - and no, "You're a princess, I'm just a regular old unicorn" doesn't count), it was to become the best spellcaster she could become. Apples and Oranges here. And as far as only one characer getting Character Development, where the hay have you been for the past three seasons? Try watching Applebuck Season and Super Speedy Cider Squeezy back to back, or Dragonquest and Hurricane Fluttershy, or Sonic Rainboom and Sweet and Elite. Or are you just upset because your personal favorite didn't get a semi-permanent upgrade? Rarity didn't get a new boutique in Canterlot or Crystal Capital, but you don't see me bitching about it.

[hwrogers 168]

for some reason these twilicorn topics have reminded me greatly of religious topics on other forums that i've seen (well before fim was a concept). one side refuses to accept logic, regardless how frequently and well it is presented... both groups always had an a-hole or two minimum by default, but there was always one of the two groups with a leading majority.

 

as for my opinion on this matter, i fully support princess twilight, and have (admittedly guarded) hope that the writers will take this to the heights of its potential, witch is very high indeed. even though i must confess a small fear that this could crash horribly, but to me that crash would be undoing the change, retcons suck nards.

 

and finally i'll go ahead and throw in my opinion on the finale. i've already watched it a buttload of times, and still every time i hear celestia's ballad, and then see twilight reveal her wings i become a giggling idiot for five minutes or so. i LOVED the finale episode! did it feel rushed, yeah. however i do not feel there was a lack of dialogue, just that much of it was sung instead of said, fine by me. i see the abundance of music in the season finale as a gift to us bronies, it's remix fodder. they knew that we'd be antsy over an extended gap between seasons, and so gave us this fabulous gift to tide us over.

 

now my thoughts on why at least a portion of people are anti-twilicorn. change has to do with it, but also we have a lot of people assuming a lot of things about twilight and her abilities along with alicorns and their abilities. it seems, to me, that many of the anti-twilicorn camp seem to have a preference for "head-canon" over actual canon. then there is the catalogue of fanfics that this change makes invalid and renders them as solidly outside of the canonical story. so i am going to go with a diagnoses of butt-hurt.

[Misterian 118]

the only thing about the whole Twilicorn that I'm still trying to get my head is this; what's the point in making Twilight an Alicorn?

 

change happens in shows, sure, but only for a reason.

 

seriously, I asked that question several times yet no one in this message board, yet none of you have even answered it, all any of you give me are brohoofs, which, while I appreciate, do NOT count as answers to a question.

[An Old Head 4,816]

seriously, I asked that question several times yet no one in this message board, yet none of you have even answered it, all any of you give me are brohoofs, which, while I appreciate, do NOT count as answers to a question.

 

Brohoofs are generally a way of saying "I agree with you, and there's nothing more to say that you haven't already said." But to answer your question:

• Making Twilight an alicorn allows for many more episode ideas
• It gives Twilight official leadership of the group now, as opposed to unofficial leadership
• It means Hasbro can make a new Twilicorn toy line, a new source of money, and therefore a new means to create more My Little Pony
• It allows more speculation for the Season 4 pilot
• In addition, it allows more possibility for the Season 4 pilot

[Shanks 10,816]

change happens in shows, sure, but only for a reason.

Hasbro wanted to sell alicorn Twilight toys and made the writers jam it in to the story at the last minute any other reasons why are something the writers will have to make up as they go along. Doing it eventually I think would have made perfect sense just not right now but now that we are stuck with it I hope that by season 4 there is a good reason why this was so abrupt. I think a potential reason that might work is an emergency, perhaps a new villain whose defeat may require the additional power boost of Twilight being an alicorn.

[A Jewel of Rarity 207]

i think it was a great idea plus its been planned since season 1 but if twilight didn't get wings materiel would have ran dry and probably there would be no episodes left unless you want a million filers *yu-gi-oh* so it gives potential for more episodes and not just speaking for myself here alot of people actually like the change the people that left the fandom clearly arnt dedicated to the show

 

for the people against it its for the best wait till season 4 before jumping the fandom

[hwrogers 168]

 

Brohoofs are generally a way of saying "I agree with you, and there's nothing more to say that you haven't already said." But to answer your question:

• Making Twilight an alicorn allows for many more episode ideas
• It gives Twilight official leadership of the group now, as opposed to unofficial leadership
• It means Hasbro can make a new Twilicorn toy line, a new source of money, and therefore a new means to create more My Little Pony
• It allows more speculation for the Season 4 pilot
• In addition, it allows more possibility for the Season 4 pilot

one thing i think you missed, the show was originally intended to end with this finale. think about it, these shows are done with a contract, what would make sense for the third season to have half as many episodes? they weren't initially expecting the show to last longer than that, so they planned for it to end with twilight's ascension in this last ep, selling one last batch of toys. then along come the bronies, a whole new batch of people to sell toys and other licensed merch to, a reason to keep going. even as artistically challenged as i am, i can think of a slew of potential ideas for future episodes with twi as a princess and alicorn. so why wouldn't they continue beyond the original end-point? i personally have great respect for the writers keeping to this original plan and making twi an alicorn now, knowing that there would be some bronies freaking out over it.

[Pixel Stick 927]

It didn't, that was the point I'm getting at. People freaking out over Twilicorn are no different than the people who thought the removal of exclusive rights for her to write Celestia letters was going to break the show.

 

Gotcha.   Sorry, sarcasm doesn't always translate well over the 'net.

 

 

The administrators are secretly planning to remove the 100-character minimum from this forum.

 

 

the only thing about the whole Twilicorn that I'm still trying to get my head is this; what's the point in making Twilight an Alicorn?

 

change happens in shows, sure, but only for a reason.

 

seriously, I asked that question several times yet no one in this message board, yet none of you have even answered it, all any of you give me are brohoofs, which, while I appreciate, do NOT count as answers to a question.

 

Well, I might not have answered you specifically, but I've given my own thoughts and theories on that question about a dozen times now in about as many threads.  In a nutshell:

 

Twilight has achieved two major milestones as of the S3 finale: She's learned enough and demonstrated enough of her power and potential to Celestia to have graduated to the "next level" of her studies, and she finished a spell that Starswirl, supposedly the most powerful wielder of magic in Equestria's history, couldn't finish.  This apparently means that she's become so skilled, talented and powerful that she's no longer an ordinary unicorn.

 

So as she ascends to become an Alicorn, she has a physical form and a title that befits her stature better.  Celestia even said that she will be learning from Twilight now as well, which at least strongly implies that Twilight has become some level of equal to Celestia.  Not a complete equal - I'm sure Celestia still has much to teach, but Twilight has shown that she is capable of knowledge and insight that Celestia is not.

 

So basically, this seems like a natural progression, and the reason it feels unnatural to a lot of folks has much more to do with how rushed the episode was.  We can speculate until our fingers bleed as to why it happened the way it did, but as I've said multiple times, I see more people simply upset by the way her ascension was handled, than by the ascension itself.

[SeaSpray 22]

the only thing about the whole Twilicorn that I'm still trying to get my head is this; what's the point in making Twilight an Alicorn?

 

change happens in shows, sure, but only for a reason.

 

seriously, I asked that question several times yet no one in this message board, yet none of you have even answered it, all any of you give me are brohoofs, which, while I appreciate, do NOT count as answers to a question.

 

I'll take a shot at answering this, which won't be new to anyone who thought through this logically.

 

Based on what is in Hasbro's Annual Report and the sudden rush of Twilight Alicorn toys from Hasbro coinciding with the finale, the reason why Twilight was made into a Princess Alicorn is to sell more colourful plastic. It is as simple as that.

 

http://www.derpyhoovesnews.com/alicorn-twilight-toys-officially-announced/

http://investorrelations.dhxmedia.com/financials-and-mdaa.html

http://investor.hasbro.com/annuals.cfm

 

This is not news, but it is a crucial realisation. Ultimately what is the purpose of the show? Does merchanise sales trump artistic integrity? Being intellectually honest after seeing what has happened over the previous season finale brings some insight.

[Castoro Chiaro 181]

Ultimately what is the purpose of the show? Does merchanise sales trump artistic integrity?

 

Uhh.

To be fair, Hasbro's a toy company. It's main purpose is to sell toys. It stops selling toys? It gets overtaken by any number of its competetors. It's in a pretty rough market and it's fortunate to have endured as long as it has.

 

I'm still mad at Hasbro and the writers' decision to turn Twilight into an alicorn princess. Twilight Sparkle had always been about studying magic, just as Pinkie is to parties, Rainbow Dash is to the Wonderbolts, Fluttershy is to animals, Rarity is to fashion, and Applejack is to farming. You take her love of studying away from Twilight, and with it her friends, and make her run an entire nation as princess of Equestria, and you're just jumping the shark.

 

But, what's worse than that, is me being heavily outnumbered by the vast majority of pro-Twilicorns out there. I've noticed that every time I complain about Princess Twilicorn, too many more people argue that they're okay with Twilight getting wings and a title, and that it should be permanent. I was hoping that there would be hundreds of other anti-Twilicorns out there who agree with me, and believe that the writers should change her back to a unicorn for the S4 premiere. Unfortunately, all I keep getting are pro-Twilicorns, and I deeply, deeply despise it.

 

So really, why are there more pro-Twilicorns than anti-Twilicorns? What's the appeal to what's supposed to be jumping the shark? Isn't that the equivalent of actually being okay with Shadow the Hedgehog wielding guns, Sonic mating with a human-girl, and Sonic turning into a werehog, even though all three were bad ideas marred by lousy execution?

 

 

See, the thing that irks me about this is the assumption you're right and it's only okay to see things your way. Dude. First up, it's an opinion about an animated children's show about princesses and ponies. It's really not worth getting mad about.

 

Secondly, people are allowed to have different opinions than you. Obviously not everyone sees things the same way. So yeah. I'm not sorry I don't garner an irrational hatred for a decision that, as of yet, hasn't even played out yet.

[SeaSpray 22]

Uhh.

To be fair, Hasbro's a toy company. It's main purpose is to sell toys. It stops selling toys? It gets overtaken by any number of its competetors. It's in a pretty rough market and it's fortunate to have endured as long as it has.

 

Of course Hasbro is a toy company and they have invested millions of dollars funding this great show and earns millions of dollars profit back (referring to the HAS annual report). I have no problem with this.

 

What I have a problem with are decisions made for short-term gain that possibly damages the brand in the medium/long-term (this is subjective). Artistic integrity and merch sale are intertwined. For example, if I think the show doesn't have redeeming qualities I will go elsewhere and my own personal merch sales with it.

 

I don't wish to be overly cynical about this. Yes it is an animated children's show about princesses and ponies. However a lot of Bronies have taken away a lot of good things from the show. I want to make the point that we ought to avoid belittling other people who honestly care about the show and it's important messages.

Edited February 24, 2013 by SeaSpray

[poniesforfun 716]

The reason why there is more pro-Twilicorn is because that's the case for all fanbases. If you go with every change the big time group (Hasbro) go by you can never be wrong. And nobody likes to be wrong. That's why I'm not surprised.

 

Also there's not just pro and anti Twilicorns. There's the people that don't give a crap, then there's the people that believe Twilicorn will become an unicorn again later and everything will go back to what it was.

Edited February 24, 2013 by poniesforfun

[Misterian 118]

 

Brohoofs are generally a way of saying "I agree with you, and there's nothing more to say that you haven't already said." But to answer your question:

• Making Twilight an alicorn allows for many more episode ideas
• It gives Twilight official leadership of the group now, as opposed to unofficial leadership
• It means Hasbro can make a new Twilicorn toy line, a new source of money, and therefore a new means to create more My Little Pony
• It allows more speculation for the Season 4 pilot
• In addition, it allows more possibility for the Season 4 pilot

 

thank you! at least some of you here is nice enough to give me a straight answer on that topic.

 

Though you could call me stubborn, I still fail to see how Twilight being an Alicorn would fit into some of the reasons you brought up here, the 3rd I'm not gonna count because it seems like little more then executive meddling, having almost nothing to do with the story.

 

'Making Twilight an alicorn allows for many more episode ideas'

 

I don't really see how, unless the majority of episode concentrate of Twilight, which might come across as contradictory to how cast and crew promised to minimize the impact her transformation has on the show (hence her still living in Ponyville with her friends). And we already saw the large amount of episodes of MLP:FiM we already got and no one in the studio (or Hasbro for that matter) said anything about running out of ideas. Heck, the show's been so keen on world-building you could make several episodes over all the different elements, characters, and places that haven't been explored or addressed yet, you wouldn't even need Twilight to be an Alicorn for any of them.

 

'It gives Twilight official leadership of the group now, as opposed to unofficial leadership'

 

Now what sense does that make? the show already established Twilight as leader of the Mane 6 from the start, no one said anything about it being unoffficial, nor any need to say it's official, the show never even hints on such a thing being a problem. What need is there to say it's 'official' when it's something we already know about and acknowledge?

 

 

'It allows more speculation for the Season 4 pilot'

'In addition, it allows more possibility for the Season 4 pilot'

 

Perhaps, I will say it might be safe to assume this ascension is setting the stage for the Season 4 premiere.

 

though if anything, I still want to hear a very good, non-contrived reason story-wise on why Twilight should stay and Alicorn

Edited February 24, 2013 by Misterian

[SeaSpray 22]

This is probably going against the grain of the discussion, but here it is.

 

In terms of story, I don't think there are any good reason for Twilicorn.

 

We're talking about a completely fictional universe that has shown difficulty consistently following its own story logic and canon. I'm not surprised, all of the shows I love over the past 30 years (and particularly kids shows) suffer from this. What did we expect?

 

The only thing that I do know is what's happenning in the real world, I have figures from the company's own report that describes the motivation and business hurdles Hasbro needs to meet to satisfy their shareholders. That's reality - even if we we don't understand or like it. Perhaps more Bronies should buy shares in the company and ask their executives questions at the Annual General Meeting (AGM)? I've been to lots of those meetings and it's quite common for special interest groups to propose things as long as it is done respectfully,

Edited February 24, 2013 by SeaSpray

[Skystrider 11]

for me Twilight just isnt my favorite character(in fact she is my least favorite) so her becoming an alicorn didnt really effect me and my view of the show personally. i suppose i can relate to people who may like Twilight though, she went from being the smart and sort of geeky but still totally down-to-earth, regular and normal pony to being equestrian royalty, this is the exact opposite of what i feel most pre-alicorn Twilight fans connected to. i know if they made Rainbow Dash an alicorn and a princess i would probably not be a brony anymore xD but honestly i was more proud of Twilight than anything, seeing how far she has come since episode 1 was amazing. but i can TOTALLY understand how angry many bronies are.