Is Sunset Shimmer the Worst Major Villain?

[Capt. Snuggle Gruff 101]

If they actually did more with her story and past then maybe I would like her a bit more.  But they just kinda threw her at us and said "LOOK BAD GUY!!!!!".  Also the whole demon thing at the end just made it worst.

[--Thunder Bolt-- 534]

I don't pike Sombra because of complicated designs, little to no personality, etc. I liked the other villains because I could relate to them and laugh, but Sombra...I couldn't relate to him at all.

 

The characteristics you're talking about don't really relate to how good a villain a character is.  For example, the pre-Queen Borg (i.e., before "the Borg Queen" is introduced) are arguably the best villain of Star Trek: The Next Generation, yet one can't relate to them at all.  They're just an all-but unstoppable force of technological omnomnomnom.  Likewise, there's no relating to Sauron.  He's just a big, scary-looking eye of fire unleashing endless hordes of Orcs against Middle Earth. 

 

The attributes you're talking about make Sunset Shimmer a better character than Sombra (more background, personality, easier to relate to, etc.), but he is still a better villain because he presents a greater threat to Equestria, and does a better job of opposing the protagonists (his clever traps, his steadily-growing power, etc.).

 

He was a good concept, but they handled him poorly.

 

You could say the same thing about Sunset Shimmer.   IMO it's the same problem in both cases: not enough time to develop them properly.

 

Also, everypony but Sombra had legit reasons to overthrow Equetria.

 

NMM: Was jealous and thought of herself as the rightful queen

Discord: Wanted some fun and chaos, and Equestria was the perfect place to do so

Chrysalis: Needed to feed her hive, and Equestria was the biggest source of love

Sunset: Never truly knew friendship, so she tried to make friends by force

Sombra: Wanted to take over the empire for whatever reason.

 

Sombra's motive was the same as most of the "great conquerors" in human history: the quest for power.  We're told that he crushed the wills of the Crystal Ponies and enslaved them, which is pretty much what imperialists do.  His is actually the most Realistic^tm motivation of the villains of MLP, the only one with real-life parallels.

[Shift 4,272]

@,

 

Good points! I just like villains you can relate too, some of them that have an actual motive, it's just that MLP has given off the villain vibe as villains you can relate to. I'm not going to lie when I said I was cheering Chrysalis on during the Season 2 Finale.

 

@,

 

The fandom was full of crybabies? Wow, way to put it bluntly.    We liked the other villains because they were new and fresh. Sombra was just a 'Here's another cliche villain' villain.

[Egghead 46]

Sunset was my least favorite villain by FAR. I truly believe that she had potential but it seemed to be wasted possibly for a lack of time or just little effort (though I highly doubt that since the amazing writers of MLP also wrote EQG).

The first thing that I don't really like her plan in general. Why did she wait for Twilight to become a princess to steal the element? Since all the elements were in Canterlot the whole time couldn't she steal it then instead of waiting for Twilight to be right THERE to steal it. 

 It is revealed that Sunset separated the human Mane 6 (excluding Twilight of course). What was the point of this? She doesn't seem to know much about the other elements and all she really wanted was Magic so what was the point of this whole thing?

Also since it started out with the Mane 6 as freshman Sunset must have been there around for about four years. So why did she suddenly decide Now would be a great tome to steal the element instead of anytime before it

[Bhending the Rules 697]

Not anymore. it just at first the fandom were too much of crybabies who don't understand what a villain means. nowdays sombra has as much as fans as Nightmare moon

 

Dude, give it a rest. Seriously, what are you trying to accomplish here? Are you trying to invalidate criticisms of Sombra? Well, you can't, because those criticisms are OPINIONS. You think Sombra is a good villain. That is your opinion. I (and the person you've been replying to) think Sombra leaves a lot to be desired as a villain. That's my opinion. Discussing this subject is fine, but trying to prove that one side is wrong is a fool's game.

 

Oh, and Sombra having as many fans as Nightmare Moon? Excuse me, I need to go have a five minute laugh break for that one. XD

[Christin 8]

I have to say that she was my least favorite villain. I mean, did you notice her name? Sunset, which is the related to Twilight and Shimmer which is related to Sparkle. Her name is literately just the opposite of Twilight's, and I thought that Celestia chose Twilight to be her assistant ever since she was a little filly, what about Sunset? Was she chosen to be her assistant aswell and become a alicorn? Big plot hole created for the sake of Twilight having a foil character. I also dislike villians that become good, but I mean, that is just for the sake of it being a kids show.

[--Thunder Bolt-- 534]

Dude, give it a rest. Seriously, what are you trying to accomplish here? Are you trying to invalidate criticisms of Sombra? Well, you can't, because those criticisms are OPINIONS. You think Sombra is a good villain. That is your opinion. I (and the person you've been replying to) think Sombra leaves a lot to be desired as a villain. That's my opinion. Discussing this subject is fine, but trying to prove that one side is wrong is a fool's game.

 

Oh, and Sombra having as many fans as Nightmare Moon? Excuse me, I need to go have a five minute laugh break for that one. XD

 

Fetch my trousers at once!  No, not those, those are my time-travel trousers.  Those are my tea trousers.  That's it, those ones!  My fighting trousers!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iRTB-FTMdk&NR=1

[Mywas 687]

Oh, and Sombra having as many fans as Nightmare Moon? Excuse me, I need to go have a five minute laugh break for that one. XD

Yes he does have as much as fans as Nightmare Moon. Go to the Favourite Villain thread and you will see that they have about the same anout of votes

[Bhending the Rules 697]

Yes he does have as much as fans as Nightmare Moon. Go to the Favourite Villain thread and you will see that they have about the same anout of votes

 

That may very well be, but a poll in a thread like that is extremely unscientific. There's no way of knowing with any certainty how many people visit that thread, and not everyone who visits the thread votes in the poll. Also, if it's a "pick one favorite" poll there's no way of knowing how many people would have each of them as a second choice or a least favorite, and so on.

 

Now, if something like this showed up on a more comprehensive and scientific piece of work (like the official Brony Census) that showed they were equally popular, then I'd believe it. Until then... no way.

[Mywas 687]

That may very well be, but a poll in a thread like that is extremely unscientific. There's no way of knowing with any certainty how many people visit that thread, and not everyone who visits the thread votes in the poll. Also, if it's a "pick one favorite" poll there's no way of knowing how many people would have each of them as a second choice or a least favorite, and so on.

 

Now, if something like this showed up on a more comprehensive and scientific piece of work (like the official Brony Census) that showed they were equally popular, then I'd believe it. Until then... no way.

you are just denying it because You think that your opinion is better than anyone else and can't accept the fact that Atleast half of the bronies like Sombra now.

[Bhending the Rules 697]

you are just denying it because You think that your opinion is better than anyone else and can't accept the fact that Atleast half of the bronies like Sombra now.

 

Nope, I don't believe it because of what I've observed with my own eyes and ears. Every brony I've actually spoken to (outside of online) doesn't think much of Sombra, especially compared to Discord and NM. This will change next month after I go to Bronycon, no doubt, but the point stands. Until something reliable contradicts what I've observed, or until what I observe changes, I'll believe what I have seen.

[Mywas 687]

Nope, I don't believe it because of what I've observed with my own eyes and ears. Every brony I've actually spoken to (outside of online) doesn't think much of Sombra, especially compared to Discord and NM. This will change next month after I go to Bronycon, no doubt, but the point stands. Until something reliable contradicts what I've observed, or until what I observe changes, I'll believe what I have seen.

On Deviantart and Derpibooru King Sombra has alot of fans(and yes as much as NMN) Infact Sombra already has more than 2/3 amout of fanarts than NMN and the gap is closing in everyday. Which says alot because NMN had three years on him.

[Shift 4,272]

@,

 

Fun fact: On the favorite villain's thread, Sombra has a low amount of votes, the second lowest to Nightmare Rarity, but she was just introduced and not canon so she doesn't count. 

[Mywas 687]

@,

 

Fun fact: On the favorite villain's thread, Sombra has a low amount of votes, the second lowest to Nightmare Rarity, but she was just introduced and not canon so she doesn't count.

 

The gap between him and Nightmare Moon is like 5 or less. they are pretty much equal. stop denying that Bronies are starting to warm up to Sombra

[Shift 4,272]

The gap between him and Nightmare Moon is like 5 or less. they are pretty much equal. stop denying that Bronies are starting to warm up to Sombra

But Nightmare Moon is still ahead nontheless. The poll quite isn't accurate anyway; however, on most polls I find, Sonbra is in last place.

[Mywas 687]

But Nightmare Moon is still ahead nontheless. The poll quite isn't accurate anyway; however, on most polls I find, Sonbra is in last place.

and is Sunset Shimmer on those polls? Because I am pretty sure if she was she would be in last place because on places like derpibooru everyone agreed she was worst villain. infact most people in this thread agreed

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Ah, Sunset Shimmer... what a waste of potential.

She had all the stuff to be a great villain, to give us a epic fight between her and Twilight, and a story that would make us feel empathy toward her,like she would be a Shakesperian villain.

But the setting of EQG just destroy all of it and we get a boring and clichèd villainess.

All i've seen during the movie was how they throw all the clichèd villains has used over and over again.

Death Stare: Check;

Evil grin: Check;

Speech of why you will fail: Check;

Evil minions wich one is thin and the other is fat: Check;

And in the end they even turn her into a demon, for cry out loud. And where somepony find her scary, my reaction was "...Really?" and the next one was "Why?". It may looks kinda creepy, but i saw worst thing, in the main series.

And her plan... dumb is not even near of what i think of it.

So, in the end, yes, Sunset is the worst villain of this movie and of the series.

But not really for her fault, but more of the maker of this movie that wasted all her potential. And another reason for me to hate EQG.

[♞RedLotus♞ 360]

I actually hope that she becomes part of the main 6, shes very cool and I think shed make a great add on, just think of all the great possibilities. 

[Planty 1,053]

To the people who say her turn around/defeat was the worst, I though it was exactly like Luna's. She was evil and then got turned/her nature was changed back into her normal self.

 

TBH her story was very similar to Lunas, its just worst explained, but she didn't get the appreciation she wanted when she was a student so vowed revenge and prove herself more powerful and a better student then Twilight (now I think about it this is a bit of a plot whole seeing as she just stopped ageing but w/e pony's age very slow from the looks of it).

 

I do wish that they had taken a little bit more time on a few things to explain them, she felt immature compared to other villains, currently I guess she is the worst but only because she has not been very well developed, I'm not to sure we will get that now either but there is a comic book soon about it, maybe we will!

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

I do wish that they had taken a little bit more time on a few things to explain them, she felt immature compared to other villains, currently I guess she is the worst but only because she has not been very well developed, I'm not to sure we will get that now either but there is a comic book soon about it, maybe we will!

 

It's not the same thing for me.

When you're making a movie you (the author) should take the time to make the villain something special. And it should be made in the movie. In a comic sounds like they're sayng "Yeah, we were lazy about this character, so we decided to show him better in a comic instead to make in the movie, despite the fact that it would have made him/her more interesting in the movie. So give us your money, cause the movie and the dolls were not enough".

[Astrobrony 655]

It's not the same thing for me.

When you're making a movie you (the author) should take the time to make the villain something special. And it should be made in the movie. In a comic sounds like they're sayng "Yeah, we were lazy about this character, so we decided to show him better in a comic instead to make in the movie, despite the fact that it would have made him/her more interesting in the movie. So give us your money, cause the movie and the dolls were not enough".

 

 I dunno.  I think for a 70 minute movie, Sunset Shimmer works fine as is.  Like I pointed out earlier, she isn't the strongest villain by a long shot, but at the end of the day, she didn't need to be.  

 

Keep in mind that Sunset Shimmer is just an average pony compared to Nightmare Moon, Discord, Chrysalis, and Sombra.  And also, being the same age as the Mane 6, she is nowhere near experienced enough to be a "Great Villain" like those others.  Like the Mane 6, she is still a young pony/young girl still learning about the world.  And also like the Mane 6, she is liable to make some really dumb mistakes when she really should have known better.  However, while the Mane 6 have each other, Sunset outright rejects friendship.  

 

That's part of the message Equestria Girls is trying to send (The magic of friendship is everywhere), and IMHO Sunset Shimmer helps execute that message effectively exactly as she was written, someone who destroys friendships in order to gain power.  Again, this makes her a pretty weak villain compared to the others, but that's to be expected.  She's just a teen/pony who just took things a bit too far (ok, she had sinister intentions, but the same principle applies). 

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Again, this makes her a pretty weak villain compared to the others, but that's to be expected.  She's just a teen/pony who just took things a bit too far (ok, she had sinister intentions, but the same principle applies). 

 

Then why choose her for a villain? Or why don't change the character so that it may be more competent and be a better villain?

If you're making a ... ugh... movie about MLP you should make so that the villain at the levels of those of the main show, not someone who manage to get only a little minacing toward the end and for only 5 minutes.

[Astrobrony 655]

Then why choose her for a villain? Or why don't change the character so that it may be more competent and be a better villain?

If you're making a ... ugh... movie about MLP you should make so that the villain at the levels of those of the main show, not someone who manage to get only a little minacing toward the end and for only 5 minutes.

 

I think you have to think of Sunset Shimmer more as an "antagonist", and not a purebred villain.  Keep in mind that the scope of Equestria Girls is limited to the high school, so having a full blown villain like Chrysalis or Discord show up at Canterlot High would have been too jarring, especially if we are to believe that this world is our own everyday world.  Any "villain" based off of a high school setting ("I want to be popular by any means necessary!") would even come close to comparing to the villains we saw in Equestria.    

 

And to answer your other point, I believe they DIDN'T need to create Sunset Shimmer at all.  To be honest, they could have easily used Trixie instead if it weren't for "Magic Duel", and IMHO, Trixie would have been a more engaging EqG antagonist if she was still in her boasting mode.  I am ok with Sunset Shimmer, but they really should have used Trixie. 

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

I think you have to think of Sunset Shimmer more as an "antagonist", and not a purebred villain.  Keep in mind that the scope of Equestria Girls is limited to the high school, so having a full blown villain like Chrysalis or Discord show up at Canterlot High would have been too jarring, especially if we are to believe that this world is our own everyday world.  Any "villain" based off of a high school setting ("I want to be popular by any means necessary!") would even come close to comparing to the villains we saw in Equestria.    

 

And to answer your other point, I believe they DIDN'T need to create Sunset Shimmer at all.  To be honest, they could have easily used Trixie instead if it weren't for "Magic Duel", and IMHO, Trixie would have been a more engaging EqG antagonist if she was still in her boasting mode.  I am ok with Sunset Shimmer, but they really should have used Trixie. 

 

You're just giving me more and more reason to hate EQG, dude. Sunset for me had the chance to be the "Dark Side" of Twilight Sparkle. A very smart and gifted unicorn wich hunger for knowledge but even more for power. What it may have been now is lost forever, and there is no comic book that will fix this mistake.

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.