An earth pony villain

[M the brony 26]

How to make an Earth-pony villain as threating as Discord or Nightmare Moon?

 

It's very simple, really, but in way they've already done it so it would be unlikely. You go the demagogue route. The charismatic individual that convinces other ponies to do things to do things that are anti-harmony.

 

Discord and Nightmare had a lot of personal power. But that means take out that individual and the threat is over. With a demagogue, you have everyone else trying to stop the heroes before they can even reach the individual. When all their relatives tell the Mane6 to back off their good friend, who's just doing what Equestria needs right now protecting everyone from the machinations of the evil Griffon Empire. Then demanding that the Mane6 turn over the Elements of Harmony to the demagogue for 'security'.

 

It doesn't have to be magic. Demagogues have been the big villains in RL time and time again. Convincing entire nations to go to war, commit terrorist acts, so on and so forth.

 

But that's a pretty nasty themes for MLP. I don't think they'll go there. There's too much RL in there, with terrorism, gun control, freedom vs security, and other themes that MLP won't want to touch.

 

But yeah, you can have an earth pony villain. They just have to be more *villainous*, rather than cartoony.

That's what i was thinking.For an earth pony to be a  villain he/her would have to be completely ruthless and thats something MLP wont do due to the fact its a children show which kinda sucks  

[--Thunder Bolt-- 534]

My headcanon is that unicorn magic is only the most obvious type, and that there is a subtler type of magic that everypony can access.  For now I call it "implicate" magic, to use David Bohm's terminology.  Most if not all species in Equestria use implicate magic in one way or another; parasprites for reproduction, dragons for fire-breathing, phoenixes for resurrection, pegasi for flight that would be otherwise physically impossible given the size of their wings, etc..  Earth ponies can use implicate magic.  For example, Applejack uses it when she bucks apples.  Apples wouldn't naturally just fall out of a shaken tree and land neatly into buckets placed under it.  Pinkie Pie is a master, as is Discord.  Notice that he doesn't wield magic through his horns unicorn style.  Most ponies don't know implicate magic exists because it's like water to fish. 

 

Unicorn magic appears to be a lot like the magic of the Hermetic tradition; there are grimoires and mathematical-geometrical symbolism, specific "spells" that must be consciously understood and properly performed.  It is very abstract and cerebral.  Implicate magic works more like qi in the Asian martial arts, or animist shamanism, or "the Force" in Star Wars.  It works more through the emotions and the subconscious than through the intellect.  Most ponies and creatures use it unconsciously.  Rainbow Dash uses it to perform sonic rainbooms; she thinks she's just being really athletic with her wings.  Fluttershy wields it to produce The Stare.  Zecora uses it with rituals and natural elements to create her potions.  In Magic Duel we also see that she knows enough to become a Yoda figure for Twilight.

 

An earth pony who was a natural talent like Pinkie Pie or Zecora, noticed that s/he had unusual abilities, and began a regimen of study and practice could well become very powerful, in my opinion.  Just imagine an anti-Pinkie Pie, with physics-breaking powers and the ability to spontaneously conjure a Despair Cannon (or Mind-Control Cannon, whatever) instead of a Party Cannon.  Emerging from potted plants at will, able to stalk like nobody's business (even Rainbow Dash couldn't outrun Pinkie), able to conjure illusions like Zecora (Luna Eclipsed, IIRC)...  Throw in a new ability or two for spice, like an Earthbending power (for those who haven't seen Avatar: The Last Airbender, the ability to manipulate earth and rock at will), and some cunning in its use, and you have a villain at least as formidable as NMM or Sombra.

 

Even a fairly modest amount of power in implicate magic could go a long way for an earth pony villain, because they would have the element of surprise.  Nopony expects a "mere" earth pony to be a threat...which could be a pretty good motive.  Say, they can create a mind-control potion, or they can shape-shift (as two of the Pinkie clones do in Too Many Pinkie Pies).  That, plus some high-octane intellect, maybe some minions and Steampunk mechanical contraptions, like massive armored robo-pony vehicles (call them Trojan Horses ), and you're good to go.

[Captain Brony (MG11) 218]

The only ideas I see as an earth pony villain are villains like Ras al ghul or Amon (legend of Korra)

Someone who is a genius who has great physical prowess but is also resourceful and has connections.

[DualisticBrony 1]

How about this character that I cooked up for this concept?

For lack of a good name I will call this character the Wolf Mother(Father works too). She grew up in the Everfree and sees herself as its caretaker. Because of her upbringing her inherent earth pony magic is stronger than most; these powers being strength, reflex(in the form of slight precognition ), and plant growth. She knows the creatures of the Everfree well and know how to use it's plants to make potent potions and poisons. The conflict would be that the Mane Six on various occasions had caused harm to the creatures of the forest, and she wished to get revenge.
The Wolf Mother would be a threat because the plants of the Everfree have been shown to hamper magic already(I'm looking at you Poison Joke.), she would have a slight idea of what they were going to do before they did it, and she would have a personal grudge.

It's not the most thought out villain ever and the conflict isn't extra strong, but it's a thought. 

[Silverhoof 2,844]

Magic has a very visual appeal. It makes for great special effects.

 

What makes for a more impressive threat?

"Do as I say or I will change you into a toad and fill the garden full of snakes!"

or

"Do as I say or I will kick you!"

 

There is a good reason that the earth ponies meekly grew the food for the masters of the storm and the masters of the sun and moon.

Earth ponies need to settle down and accept their minion status.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

Magic has a very visual appeal. It makes for great special effects.

 

What makes for a more impressive threat?

"Do as I say or I will change you into a toad and fill the garden full of snakes!"

or

"Do as I say or I will kick you!"

 

There is a good reason that the earth ponies meekly grew the food for the masters of the storm and the masters of the sun and moon.

Earth ponies need to settle down and accept their minion status.

 

Pfft....

 

Pffthahaha!

 

My favorite post.

 

But seriously, I like some of the points folks brought up.

 

@, I'm not sure what you mean by more "physically powerful" than Earth Ponies. It's been demonstrated that Earth Ponies are by far the most physically powerful of the three pony races. Remember, Twilight Sparkle couldn't manage to move that snow plow in "Winter Wrap Up", while all those Earth Ponies were doing it without breaking a sweat. Applejack can stop a carriage moving break neck speed down a hill and her own brother Big Mac has been shown to be able to move houses.

 

I suppose you might mean physical power as in magical power, but it just seems like an odd way to put it. 

 

Regardless, @@Fhaolan's idea about a demagogue is probably my favorite idea so far. A character that uses ideas and influence to overpower the Mane Six instead of raw might would be an interesting sight indeed.

[Dsanders 5,748]

 

 

@Sanderspie, I'm not sure what you mean by more "physically powerful" than Earth Ponies. It's been demonstrated that Earth Ponies are by far the most physically powerful of the three pony races. Remember, Twilight Sparkle couldn't manage to move that snow plow in "Winter Wrap Up", while all those Earth Ponies were doing it without breaking a sweat. Applejack can stop a carriage moving break neck speed down a hill and her own brother Big Mac has been shown to be able to move houses.

 

Magic in some ways, can be referred to as physical. I mean in the show, it is depicted as visible, somewhat tangible, and having an effect on certain objects and the environment.

 

Though perhaps, metaphysical would've been the better terminology there. Well derp..

 

I could've also put just more "powerful" in general. Oh well..

 

I was tired when I was typing that post haha.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

Magic in some ways, can be referred to as physical. I mean in the show, it is depicted as visible, somewhat tangible, and having an effect on certain objects and the environment.

 

Though perhaps, metaphysical would've been the better terminology there. Well derp..

 

I could've also put just more "powerful" in general. Oh well..

 

I was tired when I was typing that post haha.

 

Ha ha, it's cool! I just got confused is all. And yeah, you're right, magic does have a physical impact on their world, so, just like in "Winter Wrap Up" Twilight can make up for her lack of physical strength with her magic and move objects she can't lift with her muscles.

 

And yeah, posting when tired always leads to a derp or two!

 

[Fhaolan 4,484]

Regardless, @@Fhaolan's idea about a demagogue is probably my favorite idea so far. A character that uses ideas and influence to overpower the Mane Six instead of raw might would be an interesting sight indeed.

Yeah, only two real problems though. 1) It's a little too topical. Given the terrorist stuff going on still it's going to be hard to write this one staying within the show's rating while simultaneously not watering it down so much that it doesn't make sense. 2) They skirted past this same idea with Chrysalis, but decided to go with full-on magic mind-control rather than the force of words. It's just *easier* to write a magical villain, and when you have to churn out scripts the rate the writers do, they really don't have much choice but to take short-cuts on occasion.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

Yeah, only two real problems though. 1) It's a little too topical. Given the terrorist stuff going on still it's going to be hard to write this one staying within the show's rating while simultaneously not watering it down so much that it doesn't make sense. 2) They skirted past this same idea with Chrysalis, but decided to go with full-on magic mind-control rather than the force of words. It's just *easier* to write a magical villain, and when you have to churn out scripts the rate the writers do, they really don't have much choice but to take short-cuts on occasion.

 

Well yeah, I suppose you're right when it comes to it being topical, but I still feel like there's a way this can be pulled off. Perhaps Mayor Mare loses her spot as Mayor of Ponyville and the new mayor, who is an Earth Pony, comes to power. He or she starts off appearing nice and helpful, but wishes to twist Ponyville into something that they want it to be, and convinces the citizens of Ponyville that keeping the Elements there is dangerous since it means enemies might attack the town to get them and that the Mane Six should leave to keep Ponyville safe. Of course it turns out he is the very enemy he was speaking of.

 

I dunno, just seems like a cool approach to something. I understand the two problems you mentioned, but perhaps it could be a duo? You know, like an Earth Pony villain with a magic bodyguard? That way they can still have the magic element that's easier to write but could also have a non-magic powered villain in control.

[Guest]

Well there's a reason for that and it's because Earth Ponies are inherently weaker and thus aren't very good villians. Unless of course you could make up an earth pony as simply a figurehead, someone with lots of followers plotting to overthrow Celestia, something like that. But the actual earth pony wouldn't be the one causing the mayhem, he/she would just be calling the shots.

 

Or maybe have an earth pony with supernatural abilities due to some genetic abnormalities or maybe a magic accident that caused them to become very powerful, something like that.

[Fhaolan 4,484]

Well yeah, I suppose you're right when it comes to it being topical, but I still feel like there's a way this can be pulled off. Perhaps Mayor Mare loses her spot as Mayor of Ponyville and the new mayor, who is an Earth Pony, comes to power. He or she starts off appearing nice and helpful, but wishes to twist Ponyville into something that they want it to be, and convinces the citizens of Ponyville that keeping the Elements there is dangerous since it means enemies might attack the town to get them and that the Mane Six should leave to keep Ponyville safe. Of course it turns out he is the very enemy he was speaking of.

 

 

I like that one. You should write it.

 

Yeah, they *should* do something like that. If nothing else, just to be contrary to all those who can't see a villain without magic.

[M the brony 26]

i just re watched an episode just for sidekicks and i noticed how tank was flying using a magic type devise? perhaps that's a way an earth pony can be a good villain by making magic powered devises 

[Castle Bleck 19,377]

An Earth Pony villain could actually be quite effective as a "Grand Admiral Thrawn"-type or something -- all he/she would need to do first is find some form of Anti-Magic in order to prevent being instantly owned by Unicorns, Alicorns, Discord, etcetera (for example: the aforementioned Thrawn had a pet Ysalamir).

Edited May 10, 2016 by A.V.

[Declen 118]

 

 

Well there's a reason for that and it's because Earth Ponies are inherently weaker and thus aren't very good villians.

Joker.

He doesn't look very physicaly strong. Nevertheless he is throughout dangerous.

In fact, an earth pony villain can look even smaller and weaker than a usual earth pony and so completely harmless. A smart man (or pony) turns his obvious weakness into his secret strengh.

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

An earth pony villain would essentially be a human in pony form. They would be smart and creative rather than physically strong. It would start with simple devices and machines meant to make life and work easier, but would quickly spiral out of control. This pony would have everypony hooked on their inventions, so nopony would stand up to them. Soon these inventions would spiral out of control and start harming the environment.

 

They would start with deforestation and strip-mining. Heavy industrialization would place factories over forest and natural habitats, and all the while said pony would become a maniac. They would be convinced that they are being helpful, when i truth they are hooked on the power of controlling the new-found technology. They would expand at all cost, with no regard for the rest of the world. Soon Equestria would resemble earth, barren and dead, and polluted, with only a thin facade of trees and life to keep us deceived. 

 

My image of an Earth Pony villain is a mash up of a CEO, entrepreneur, and the presidents of an unnamed first-world super-power. He or she would start out harmless, but try to destroy and control the world.

[~Silver Essence~ 2,625]

That's a good point.

 

However, the main reason why it's never an earth type it's  because of it's abilities.

 

A unicorn can do magic, and a pegasi can fly and perform fast movements, an earth would have to do something very impressive to be considered a villain.

[Castle Bleck 19,377]

As I said before, an Earth Pony villain could use super strength, intellect, and/or some form of anti-magic protection -- best if all 3, of course.

Edited May 10, 2016 by A.V.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

@ Metal Sonic - As I said before, an Earth pony villain could use super-strength, intellect, and/or some form of anti-magic protection; best if all 3, of course.

 

I agree of course, and think an Earth Pony villain that relies on brains and inventions would be awesome, but a good point was brought up earlier in this topic that such a villain might be unfavorable to the writers, since it's much easier to write a villain that can put up a fight with great magical powers rather than one that's a bit deeper like you're suggesting. I guess super strength would actually be more direct, and it's been shown that Earth Ponies are the most physically strong of the three races, but who knows if that could really work if matched up against such powerful magic, such as the Elements of Harmony.

 

Of course, I think the writers can pull it off, but we'll just have to see. At this point, Season Four is coming out soon so I guess we'll see if we get any antagonists that don't have magic. Because at this point, it's looking like Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon are the only Earth Pony antagonists, and they're just school yard bullies.

[Descant 1,898]

What about... An Earth pony... That's like the leader of an underground pony mafia in one of the bigger cities, like Manehattan? That would work. Where he's basically untouchable because the mafia runs the city. 

William Tweed and Al Capone come to mind as possible real-life parallels to such a pony. Someone in power, corrupt, yet politically untouchable.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Descant

[Castle Bleck 19,377]

Simple version: An Earth Pony frequently bullied by Unicorns for lacking magic finally snaps and starts using a magic-blocking plot device for revenge on magic-users everywhere.

If the writers could get away with pulling the Alicorn Amulet out of their @$$es in Season 3, then surely they can deus-ex-machina something that blocks magic as well in Season 4 or beyond.

Edited May 10, 2016 by A.V.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

@ Rainblow Hash -

 

Simple version: Earth pony frequently bullied by unicorns for lacking magic finally snaps and starts using a magic-blocking plot device for revenge on magic-users everywhere.

 

If the writers could get away with pulling the Alicorn Amulet out of their @$$es in Season 3, then surely they can deus-ex-machina something that blocks magic as well in Season 4 or beyond.

 

Yeah, but magic blocking would just feel kind of like Discord over again. Besides, it's kind of telling how just to compete with magic the villain has to block it. I'd rather see an Earth Pony villain that uses something else rather than just nullifying magic. I mean, if that's what it comes to, sure, but it'd be cool to see a situation where our heroes have magic but it fails them because it simply can't solve the situation. For example, if the Earth Pony villain is a smooth talker in a position of power, they obviously just can't magic friendship blast the pony with the Elements of Harmony, since the person is well-liked and that would be seen as an attack rather than a measure to ensure the safety of Equestria.

 

I dunno, I just find the idea of having to nullify the magic of the Mane Six, whether it be the magic of the Elements or Twilight's magic, kind of silly since I think it would just illustrate further how infuriatingly powerful magic is in this universe.

[Castle Bleck 19,377]

But regardless of how manipulative he/she would be, the fact remains that magic is Equestria's dominant force, so if anything, magic-blocking would just be Genre Savvy of him/her.

Star Wars example: Even Thrawn, the Empire's best tactician ever, knew better than to approach C'baoth -- a Sith psychopath -- without using anti-Force protection -- namely, Thrawn's pet ysalamir (a rare Force-blocking animal).

Edited May 10, 2016 by A.V.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

@ Rainblow Hash -

 

But regardless of how manipulative he'd/she'd be, the fact remains that magic IS Equestria's dominant force, so if anything, magic-blocking would just be Genre Savvy for him/her.

 

"Star Wars" example: Even Thrawn, the Empire's best tactician in history, knew better than to approach a psychopathic Dark Jedi without anti-Force protection (namely, Thrawn's pet ysalamir (a rare Force-blocking animal)).

 

Yes, of course it'd be genre-savvy and wise of the Earth Pony, I'm merely saying that I'd prefer if the Earth Pony had ways where the use of magic itself was useless. Now perhaps our ideas could be combined...

 

The Mane Six can't just barge in and use magic at first because the villain is well-respected and everypony thinks that they're simply trying to help, but once the villain is exposed to be just that, a villain, they whip out a device that nullifies the magic of the Elements or some jazz, forcing the Mane Six to find a different way to fight them, perhaps even with words or through brute strength.

 

And on another point, Earth Ponies do have magic as the show states, it just simply has to do with being able to grow food and a connection to nature. You brought up having a force-blocking pet in the Star Wars verse, well what if the Earth Pony villain had a pet that blocked the magic of unicorns and Alicorns? Meaning that the magic of Twilight and Rarity was useless, so it would be up to the strength of Applejack, the weather powers of Rainbow Dash, the Randomness of Pinkie Pie, and the animal control of Fluttershy to save the day? That could be an interesting way to approach it, now that you bring up strange creatures.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

And yet they're more convincing than Sunset Shimmer.

 

Let me repeat that: The 2 Earth pony filly bullies are actually MORE convincing than the UNICORN/HUMAN/DEMON HYBRID!!!

 

THAT'S how underwhelmed I am by Sunset's villainy, and I'm sure many of you feel the...

 

 

...Wait...

 

 

...We're...not talking about "Equestria Girls"...are we...?

 

Eh...

 

No, not really.

 

But to be honest, I think the only part that really made Sunset's villainy feel so... underwhelming was the school setting. She is definitely a legitimate threat, but the school setting made her just feel like Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon if they were Twilight's age. I dunno... heck, Snips and Snails were pretty freaking evil in the movie too.

 

Regardless, I suppose I can twist your post into something that has to do with the topic by saying: let's avoid having a school setting if there is to be an Earth Pony villain.

 

Cause then they'd be getting all up on Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon's turf, and they can't be having none of that funniness up in their territory! Uh uh sista!