Were the Mane 5 bullying Fluttershy?

[Scootadress 361]

In the song, I felt like Twilight should have been on Fluttershy's side along with Pinkie Pie. I can see why Rarity and RD wouldn't be on Fluttershy's defense because RD likes cider and Rarity understands the hardships. Twilight would have been on Flutter's side more on a scientific standpoint. Even when they are a migrating species, you can't do certain things or else that totally unbalances the ecosystem. You can't change the diet, if they do, then how bad would the impact be later on for others? Twilight would understand that AJ needs her apples for her own devices, but she would have to side on the side that would better suit the ponies as a whole. AJ might not have realized then, but down the road, there will be a bad outcome, like with anything.  That, and it was weird to see AJ being so judging.

 

Anyway, exiting from that, it seemed in the song that they were just picking on her knowing that she wasn't going to really fight back. They even make it a point to circle around her and repeat the same phrases over to make the point clear. They don't even bother to consider the option of a sanctuary, they dismiss it and went on with the brainwashing method. But even then, they coerced her to do something she didn't wish to do, and in the end, she was right like she was right in the other episodes that had this happen. But here's the kicker:Not only did they coerce her to do that, but they endangered her by bringing in a spell that didn't even work when they had done it the last time with the parasprites and that backlashed by being forced into Flutterbat. Hay, AJ contradicted herself by stating Fluttershy's Sanctuary would take too long but it didn't take long obviously since they completed it in the end of the episode. 

 

They just seemed to bully her into doing what they needed her to do, much like how they insisted that Rarity needed to fix the dresses that she made for them in Suited for Success, and much like THAT, Rarity had nearly lost her chance at showing off her real clothing and shot her chances at getting better in her line of work. The difference was that when Fluttershy had done the same by ignoring her principles. she turned to a BATPONY. In essence, they had bullied Fluttershy into doing what they wanted to. Anyone notice that?

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

No.

 

They disagreed at it came across as peer pressure, because they were a bit too forceful with it.

 

That's all there is to it. It's been proven time and time again they all value Fluttershy as a friend.

[Scootadress 361]

No.

 

They disagreed at it came across as peer pressure, because they were a bit too forceful with it.

 

That's all there is to it. It's been proven time and time again they all value Fluttershy as a friend.

But when it comes to her own area of expertise they don't allow her to do what she feels she can do? Who's the better judge of what should have been done to the bats, AJ or Fluttershy? They didn't listen to her in Keep Calm and Flutter On, when she should have been listened to. It comes down to just one little fact,  they never allowed her to turn back. They made a plan using Fluttershy when she didn't even want that mess but they did so anyway. They didn't even notice that she was acting very odd. (Pinkie saw her, but hadn't done much)  Even when they value her, what kind of friendship is it if you don't trust your friend enough to listen to what they said to the fullest extent? 

[Guest]

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Edited December 22, 2016 by plzremoveaccountfdfd

[Moonlight 7,288]

I wouldn't really say that they were bullying Fluttershy, just getting their point across a bit more forceful than they should have. Also, the ponies needed to get rid of the bats as quick as possible in order to save Applejack's crops, so using science and such wouldn't have been something on Twilight's mind. 

[Sunny Fox 5,952]

It was a different spell than Twilight used on the parasprites. 1. She had to find it in a book. She already knew the parasprite one. 2. It required the targets full attention before it could be cast, unlike the parasprite one. 3. The parasprite spell was sent out in waves, whereas this spell surrounded the target.

 

The spell did work, there were just unintended side effects that couldn't possible have been known before hand.

 

It was more group-think than bullying.

[Sugar Pea 2,682]

I honestly didn't like AJ in this episode...throw fists at me all you want, fellas, but i'm going to have to say that AJ was blindly lashing at Fluttershy...near the end of the episode, AJ admitted that she should have listened to Fluttershy in the first place. 

I mean, I would be pretty upset too if my family's apple orchard was being eaten by bats, but the fact that they were basically pushing Fluttershy around as if it was her fault or something was just kinda, ya know, mean. Just saying.

 

Not just AJ, but the others as well.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Kitteh Cakes

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

But when it comes to her own area of expertise they don't allow her to do what she feels she can do? Who's the better judge of what should have been done to the bats, AJ or Fluttershy? They didn't listen to her in Keep Calm and Flutter On, when she should have been listened to. It comes down to just one little fact,  they never allowed her to turn back. They made a plan using Fluttershy when she didn't even want that mess but they did so anyway. They didn't even notice that she was acting very odd.   Even when they value her, what kind of friendship is it if you don't trust your friend enough to listen to what they said to the fullest extent? 

Because conflict is needed for a good story, if you want the literal answer.

 

If you want the canon answer, Fluttershy isn't ignored, she's just not forceful enough with her words. She's got a horribly quiet voice and has trouble getting her point across

 

 

 

(Pinkie saw her, but hadn't done much)

 

As for Pinkie, don't even try to analyze her character and thought process Einstein wouldn't be able to figure that one out

Edited December 31, 2013 by ghostfacekiller39

[The-Master 1,176]

bully¹

ˈbʊli/

verb

gerund or present participle: bullying

1. 1.

   use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something.

 

 

Was Fluttershy being bullied by her friends? Yes.

 

Was it very out of character? Yes.

Edited December 31, 2013 by The-Master

[Sunny Fox 5,952]

I honestly didn't like AJ in this episode...throw fists at me all you want, fellas, but i'm going to have to say that AJ was blindly lashing at Fluttershy...near the end of the episode, AJ admitted that she should have listened to Fluttershy in the first place. 

 

I mean, I would be pretty upset too if my family's apple orchard was being eating by bats, but the fact that they were basically pushing Fluttershy around was just kinda, ya know, mean. Just saying.

Applejack is stubborn, has a known dislike for critters that steal her apples, and is very protective of her farm and family livelihood. She'd also grown up hearing horrific stories about the bats from Granny Smith. The way she acted was to be expected. And with her more forceful personality, it's not surprising she got the others onto her side.

[The Mane-iac 1,648]

I wasn't too happy with the episode overall. It did seem like they were bullying Fluttershy a tad, but really what bothered me was the tone of that song and that not a single pony took her side. The song came across like some kind of cult ritual chant thing, and just seemed kind of mean the way it got dark and Fluttershy was cowering while being surrounded.

 

I just... other than Flutterbat being pretty funny, this episode has so far been the low point of the season in my mind. Even the fang thing at the end seemed weird and out of place.

 

My 

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

 

 

Anyway, exiting from that, it seemed in the song that they were just picking on her knowing that she wasn't going to really fight back. They even make it a point to circle around her and repeat the same phrases over to make the point clear.

 

Their body language creeped me out. It's not like it was something done to the audience. They were talking to Fluttershy. Seriously, it just makes it worse that Flutters is in the ground all scared like that in the end. I'd be alright with it if that had come from a villain, but her own friends.

[Scootadress 361]

It was a different spell than Twilight used on the parasprites. 1. She had to find it in a book. She already knew the parasprite one. 2. It required the targets full attention before it could be cast, unlike the parasprite one. 3. The parasprite spell was sent out in waves, whereas this spell surrounded the target.

 

The spell did work, there were just unintended side effects that couldn't possible have been known before hand.

 

It was more group-think than bullying.

Wait wait wait, didn't that same effect happen with the parasprites? Wasn't there a huge side effect with the parasprites as well, I mean, the intention wasn't to let them eat everything else! She still had tried the same thing earlier on, just different processes but they had unwanted backlash in result. She basically did a season 1 problem with a different spell, but serious side effect. That's why you never trust Twilight with magic. There, never let her solve biological things with magic. Problem solved. lol. 

I wouldn't really say that they were bullying Fluttershy, just getting their point across a bit more forceful than they should have. Also, the ponies needed to get rid of the bats as quick as possible in order to save Applejack's crops, so using science and such wouldn't have been something on Twilight's mind. 

The reserve didn't take very long, in fact, they finished the day after Flutterbat happened. If they had done so in the first place, it would have easily taken loads of time off their hooves.

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

Hmm

 

If you think about it the mane 5 were technically bullying Fluttershy but really they weren't forcing her to do it.

 

Futtershy could've just left and the others probably would've done something else but since they're friends it was also more of peer pressure.

[Scootadress 361]

Because conflict is needed for a good story, if you want the literal answer.

 

If you want the canon answer, Fluttershy isn't ignored, she's just not forceful enough with her words. She's got a horribly quiet voice and has trouble getting her point across

 

 

As for Pinkie, don't even try to analyze her character and thought process Einstein wouldn't be able to figure that one out

She's the Sweetie Belle of the mane 6. Sweetie Belle, while has great ideas at times and tends to be the voice of reason,  tends to be pretty ignored. (Cue Flight to Finish and Season 3 episode)  When right, she still is ignored. 

 

It all makes sense now.

Hmm

 

If you think about it the mane 5 were technically bullying Fluttershy but really they weren't forcing her to do it.

 

Futtershy could've just left and the others probably would've done something else but since they're friends it was also more of peer pressure.

That body language. They wouldn't have been able to do much without the Stare being used. Even so, they circled around her and she cowers as they do that. (When they first chant, they were just circling, but they actually show looks of anger while they do. Rarity admitted it herself that she was sorry) It wasn't peer pressure, in Hurricane Shy, that was peer pressure. That just look down right menacing. I wouldn't be able to disagree when 5 ponies circle around me and look at me like that...

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

 

If you think about it the mane 5 were technically bullying Fluttershy but really they weren't forcing her to do it.

Ughh...

 

EVERYONE.

 

Let's think outside the box here

 

View the song part from a different perspective, that of Fluttershy.

 

Who's to say they weren't showing the audience how Fluttershy felt and what she saw, rather than from an objective sort of thing?

 

She's a timid creature, and giving the dark atmosphere and OOC looks (that of contempt) on the rest of the 5, who's to say they weren't portraying Fluttershy's emotions subjectively into the general atmostphere of the song?

 

If you'd notice, when AJ and the others started singing, the mood and lighting and everything got darker.

 

When Flutters sang, it was all bright and happy.

 

Isn't it possible they portrayed the song subjectively rather than objectively?

 

2nd off, they DESPARATELY needed Fluttershy to perform her stare, or else the rest of the plan would be useless; it took a bit of a push, but it was necessary, and I didn't think that was rude in the slightest.

 

Last thing, don't hold it against them if they were too forceful.

 

AJ said she was wrong, showed remorse, and went with Fluttershy's original plan at the end of the episode.

 

Flutters forgave AJ, why can't you?

 

[Riddle 102]

I think it was a mix of bully and peer pressure on Shy

a bit sadly but it tends to happen to her a lot,  even with

Dash and such.  Was AJ pushy and looking only at her point

of view with out asking on other ways to take care of the

bats?  Yes i would say she was on this, and many of the others

just fell behind her (dash for the cider...)  Shy did put a good

point in how the bats helped and such and would it have hurt AJ

to put aside some land for the bats given how much land her family has?  Nope!

 

So yes it was bullying! But also in the eps it showed also how being a bully

can also hurt you'er friends and such which it did show with the change to Flutter-Bat

and such.   Also they did go out of their way to help her and AJ listened but the others have

at times push Shy on the outer lines.

[Sabrinie 392]

I didn't see it as bullying her so much as just them disagreeing with her. Yes, maybe somepony should have taken her side, but that's not always going to happen in real life. I think the issue of peer pressuring her to be on their side was going on more than bullying. If somepony had been on her side, the peer pressuring probably wouldn't have happened, and thus the episode wouldn't have done anything. I think their actions could be seen as peer pressure, but not as bullying. 

[Scootadress 361]

Ughh...

 

EVERYONE.

 

Let's think outside the box here

 

View the song part from a different perspective, that of Fluttershy.

 

Who's to say they weren't showing the audience how Fluttershy felt and what she saw, rather than from an objective sort of thing?

 

She's a timid creature, and giving the dark atmosphere and OOC looks (that of contempt) on the rest of the 5, who's to say they weren't portraying Fluttershy's emotions subjectively into the general atmostphere of the song?

 

If you'd notice, when AJ and the others started singing, the mood and lighting and everything got darker.

 

When Flutters sang, it was all bright and happy.

 

Isn't it possible they portrayed the song subjectively rather than objectively?

 

2nd off, they DESPARATELY needed Fluttershy to perform her stare, or else the rest of the plan would be useless; it took a bit of a push, but it was necessary, and I didn't think that was rude in the slightest.

 

Last thing, don't hold it against them if they were too forceful.

 

AJ said she was wrong, showed remorse, and went with Fluttershy's original plan at the end of the episode.

 

Flutters forgave AJ, why can't you?

 

The problem being that they HAD done that. It didn't take them long to build the reserve for the bats. If she HAD listened then the farm wouldn't have to worry as much over the apples that were wasted because they taken that time towards the reserve and learning the language. Instead, AJ pushed her argument, they followed, and they wasted a day that could have saved lots of apples. If they built the reserve, the apples wouldn't have been as badly wasted, but they waited 2 whole days instead, effectively delaying help for the farm. They wasted more crop doing AJ's plan then Fluttershy's.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

The problem being that they HAD done that. It didn't take them long to build the reserve for the bats. If she HAD listened then the farm wouldn't have to worry as much over the apples that were wasted because they taken that time towards the reserve and learning the language. Instead, AJ pushed her argument, they followed, and they wasted a day that could have saved lots of apples. If they built the reserve, the apples wouldn't have been as badly wasted, but they waited 2 whole days instead, effectively delaying help for the farm. They wasted more crop doing AJ's plan then Fluttershy's.

Tell me how you would've made a good episode with them listening to Fluttershy in the first place

 

You've got to take into account the writers try to make it engaging and immersing, not just fru-fru friendship G3 thing

Edited December 31, 2013 by ghostfacekiller39

[Scootadress 361]

Tell me how you would've made a good episode with them listening to Fluttershy in the first place

 

You've got to take into account the writers try to make it engaging and immersing, not just fru-fru friendship G3 thing

It just seems like they placed AJ in that position on force. It would have been entertaining if, lets say, Twilight and Pinkie Pie were on Fluttershy's side and they try to save the bats while, in the process, hurting their friendship with the others causing a turmoil that they resolve in the end via compromise of the reserve. 

 

Like, Twilight and Pinkie, while RD and Rarity try to drive the bats away with AJ, attempt something to allow the bats to stay but cause AJ distress in the progress because they had taken the bats over? This causes a strain on their relationship just as the story had with Fluttershy and AJ alone.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

It just seems like they placed AJ in that position on force. It would have been entertaining if, lets say, Twilight and Pinkie Pie were on Fluttershy's side and they try to save the bats while, in the process, hurting their friendship with the others causing a turmoil that they resolve in the end via compromise of the reserve. 

 

Like, Twilight and Pinkie, while RD and Rarity try to drive the bats away with AJ, attempt something to allow the bats to stay but cause AJ distress in the progress because they had taken the bats over? This causes a strain on their relationship just as the story had with Fluttershy and AJ alone.

K, I see what you mean. That's always interesting.

 

But what about Flutterbat? That was a major part of this episode, and what makes it stand out. How would you have kept that in there if there was any of them on Fluttershy's side?

[Guest]

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Edited December 22, 2016 by plzremoveaccountfdfd

[The-Master 1,176]

 

 

Tell me how you would've made a good episode with them listening to Fluttershy in the first place

 

First off, give each of the mane six their own independent views that actually coincide with their characters.Rainbow Dash, a pegasi who grew up defending Fluttershy from bullies, would not suddenly turn around and start bullying her for the sake of cider. Twilight and Pinkie had no view on the matter and seemed to basically go with whatever everypony else was saying. As a result they are as much to blame for this situation as Applejack herself. Give Fluttershy some support, show her that even when she feels alone and vulnerable there is always support to fall back on. That would be a far greater moral than this twisted act of intimation that only shows that in these situations you're on your own.

 

 

But what about Flutterbat? That was a major part of this episode, and what makes it stand out. How would you have kept that in there if there was any of them on Fluttershy's side?

 

I wouldn't. It was unnecessary and added nothing to the original point they intended to address.

[Scootadress 361]

K, I see what you mean. That's always interesting.

 

But what about Flutterbat? That was a major part of this episode, and what makes it stand out. How would you have kept that in there if there was any of them on Fluttershy's side?

Twilight and Pinkie learn that their side is correct after learning that the orchard would die eventually if it weren't for the vampire fruit bats, so to truly show how important, perhaps they do, indeed, turn her into a temporary bat. Its not crazy, Celestia has done this on some occasions herself. But this causes a backfire on the plans and Applejack learns the same lesson while helping stop Flutterbat.

 

Twilight and Pinkie Pie learn their side is correct after learning the orchard would die eventually without them and they try to help save the bats, but the others (everyone on AJ's side) start to retaliate and go against through other means. Eventually, this takes a toll of Fluttershy who doesn't want to fight and neither does AJ, but AJ's too stubborn to listen to herself.Of course, then have one of the others (RD and Rarity) try to sabotage what Twilight and Pinkie do by making her accidentally cast a spell she was going to use to use as a way to show they were needed, and instead, they cause Fluttershy to turn into a bat. They learn that they were all wrong by continuing the argument and not seeing the bigger picture, coming to a compromise. Applejack would learn the same lesson that she should have listened, and Fluttershy would also learn to speak out more against something she knows is wrong instead of allowing the fight to drag on. (Or something to the effect)