Were the Mane 5 bullying Fluttershy?

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

Twilight and Pinkie learn that their side is correct after learning that the orchard would die eventually if it weren't for the vampire fruit bats, so to truly show how important, perhaps they do, indeed, turn her into a temporary bat. Its not crazy, Celestia has done this on some occasions herself. But this causes a backfire on the plans and Applejack learns the same lesson while helping stop Flutterbat.

 

Twilight and Pinkie Pie learn their side is correct after learning the orchard would die eventually without them and they try to help save the bats, but the others (everyone on AJ's side) start to retaliate and go against through other means. Eventually, this takes a toll of Fluttershy who doesn't want to fight and neither does AJ, but AJ's too stubborn to listen to herself.Of course, then have one of the others (RD and Rarity) try to sabotage what Twilight and Pinkie do by making her accidentally cast a spell she was going to use to use as a way to show they were needed, and instead, they cause Fluttershy to turn into a bat. They learn that they were all wrong by continuing the argument and not seeing the bigger picture, coming to a compromise. Applejack would learn the same lesson that she should have listened, and Fluttershy would also learn to speak out more against something she knows is wrong instead of allowing the fight to drag on. (Or something to the effect)

 

First off, give each of the mane six their own independent views that actually coincide with their characters.Rainbow Dash, a pegasi who grew up defending Fluttershy from bullies, would not suddenly turn around and start bullying her for the sake of cider. Twilight and Pinkie had no view on the matter and seemed to basically go with whatever everypony else was saying. As a result they are as much to blame for this situation as Applejack herself. Give Fluttershy some support, show her that even when she feels alone and vulnerable there is always support to fall back on. That would be a far greater moral than this twisted act of intimation that only shows that in these situations you're on your own.

 

 

 

I wouldn't. It was unnecessary and added nothing to the original point they intended to address.

Sounds fair, sounds fair.

 

But, I still refuse to accept the fact that she was being bullied, because it isn't a fact, it's an opinion, and sort of a nit-picky-overly-defensive one.

 

Honestly, complaining about how the other 5 "WEREBULLYINGFLUTTERSHY!!!!1" isn't going to change anything that happened, it's said and done.

 

I think it's kinda funny how there's still a bit of a grudge being held here, even though the pony you're both trying to defend forgave a remorseful AJ in the end, but, you know.

[pinkieshyrose 58]

I thought the scene where they circles around her and watched he cower was so creepy... even if it was all in Fluttershys head. 

I also found Apple Jacks hoof in the air very creepy during that song. The song was creepy too me...

Edited December 31, 2013 by pinkieshyrose

[The-Master 1,176]

 

 

I think it's kinda funny how there's still a bit of a grudge being held here, even though the pony you're both trying to defend forgave a remorseful AJ in the end, but, you know.

 

Applejack learned very little from this experience. By the time the show had concluded Twilight had already stripped the bats of their food source and they were no longer and issue (while possibly killing of the entire colony unless they find some other food source aside from apples). Applejack was remorseful about the spells defect on Fluttershy and little else. And to quote AJ,

 

 

"I didn't learn anything."

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

Applejack learned very little from this experience. By the time the show had concluded Twilight had already stripped the bats of their food source and they were no longer and issue (while possibly killing of the entire colony unless they find some other food source aside from apples). Applejack was remorseful about the spells defect on Fluttershy and little else. And to quote AJ,

 

 

"I didn't learn anything."

Go back and re-watch the ending, please, because that's way off target.

[Scootadress 360]

Sounds fair, sounds fair.

 

But, I still refuse to accept the fact that she was being bullied, because it isn't a fact, it's an opinion, and sort of a nit-picky-overly-defensive one.

 

Honestly, complaining about how the other 5 "WEREBULLYINGFLUTTERSHY!!!!1" isn't going to change anything that happened, it's said and done.

 

I think it's kinda funny how there's still a bit of a grudge being held here, even though the pony you're both trying to defend forgave a remorseful AJ in the end, but, you know.

I'm not complaining, I'm voicing an opinion. 

 

I'm not even the biggest Fluttershy fan, I don't like her as much as some other ponies might, but many ponies don't notice that she has been bullied, she forgave them, they bully again.

 

Bully: To use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not AJ says that now, they don't really mean that by the next episode. RD made that promise earlier on herself, didn't exactly listen to it, and she's the element of loyalty! They promised that they would listen to her more, but they hadn't either. Point is, who cares whether or not she states she's forgiven in the end. The cycle repeats.

 

In the CMC, this happens with Sweetie Belle. Sweetie Belle continually states the voice of reason, they apologize for not doing said voice of reason, but they continually disagree with voice of reason. ,<---This is obviously the one ponies tend to notice first. 

 

Its the same thing.

 

Fluttershy makes a suggestion, it gets over looked, turns out its correct, she forgives them, and then back to square one. Just note that the mistake AJ had done through this bullying method could have costed more than the orchard. Point is, that this cycle was VERY evident in this episode. So much so it sort of scared me. (The body language they gave out towards their own friend is scary) The cast themselves (Rarity herself) felt bad because they did scare the shat out of her. She says this throughout.  

[The-Master 1,176]

 

 

Go back and re-watch the ending, please, because that's way off target.

 

Ending was lacklustre, didn't tie off the story very well. The bats for we know don't give a damn about apples any more, so that idea is now redundant. Applejack does admit that she should have actually listened to Fluttershy's idea before shutting her down, but the issue of her intimidation and forceful nature about it was never brought up again (except for when Fluttershy mentioned she shouldn't let ponies pressure her to do something, but really, who's fault was that?)

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

Ending was lacklustre, didn't tie off the story very well. The bats for we know don't give a damn about apples any more, so that idea is now redundant. Applejack does admit that she should have actually listened to Fluttershy's idea before shutting her down, but the issue of her intimidation and forceful nature about it was never brought up again (except for when Fluttershy mentioned she shouldn't let ponies pressure her to do something, but really, who's fault was that?)

Again, the ending.

 

Doesn't matter how well it ties off the story, it matters how it fixed what is being defended right now.

 

Which, it did do just that, despite your objections.

The fight is over between those 2, I dunno why the protection of Fluttershy and the belief she was being bullied is lingering around still.

 

 

I'm not complaining, I'm voicing an opinion. 

 

I'm not even the biggest Fluttershy fan, I don't like her as much as some other ponies might, but many ponies don't notice that she has been bullied, she forgave them, they bully again.

 

Bully: To use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not AJ says that now, they don't really mean that by the next episode. RD made that promise earlier on herself, didn't exactly listen to it, and she's the element of loyalty! They promised that they would listen to her more, but they hadn't either. Point is, who cares whether or not she states she's forgiven in the end. The cycle repeats.

 

In the CMC, this happens with Sweetie Belle. Sweetie Belle continually states the voice of reason, they apologize for not doing said voice of reason, but they continually disagree with voice of reason. ,<---This is obviously the one ponies tend to notice first. 

 

Its the same thing.

 

Fluttershy makes a suggestion, it gets over looked, turns out its correct, she forgives them, and then back to square one. Just note that the mistake AJ had done through this bullying method could have costed more than the orchard. Point is, that this cycle was VERY evident in this episode. So much so it sort of scared me. (The body language they gave out towards their own friend is scary) The cast themselves (Rarity herself) felt bad because they did scare the shat out of her. She says this throughout.  

They don't ignore Fluttershy.

 

The usually don't notice her because of a general failure to assert herself, and her best points, and in particular the reasonable ones, are often during bickering or such, which, when you don't assert yourself and speak in a near whisper, chances are you won't be heard.

 

Failure to notice someone, particularly in Fluttershy's case, with her shy, soft-spoken, and extremely introverted personality, isn't bullying. This is the closest they've ever come to bullying her, and it still wasn't bullying

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

I don't see that they bullied her, as such. Fluttershy agreed to help despite having misgivings and doing so reluctantly. Even so, she made the choice, seeing how adamant the others were. Also worth noting is that Twilight pointed out that Ponyville needed the apples in the scene right before Fluttershy agreed. Even after that, Applejack asked her if she would do the Stare or not. She wasn't threatened, she was persuaded.  Being pressured into something due to peer pressure is not the same as bullying. Even at the end, Fluttershy used the word "pressured", not "forced". Different thing entirely.

[Nature's Spell 526]

I'm honestly not convinced that what we saw during the song actually happened as we saw it. I think it more of a projection of their feelings than an actually event. If you were actually watching them debate, and not in their heads, it would have been a lot more calm. So I don't think she was bullied, although perception is often reality.

Now as far as Twilight, I agree she wasn't very well written in this episode, but directly after the song she did appear sympathetic to Fluttershy. She honestly wasn't sure how to deal with the situation.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Nature's Spell

[Gary S. 102]

I think people see too much into this.

I rather felt they were on musical mode instead of bully mode. FS looked more shocked about them wanting to kill scare away the bats than being intimidated by her friends.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Gary S.

[Anilewe 2,178]

When I saw the synopsis of this episode I was really afraid that it will turn out to show Applejack as a jerk and some group of fans will start to dislike her. And it looks like my fears were correct, which makes me feel really sad, because I'm a big fan of AJ and though I'm really trying - I don't see her as a bad friend in this episode. 

 

In my opinion, writers just wanted to try something different and create a song with dark and climatic mood and that's why others take Applejack's side and Fluttershy looked so nervous, maybe even scared. This episode was a reference to horror movies and they wanted to show it through the atmosphere of the song. That's all.

 

Also... They didn't forced Fluttershy to do it, they asked for her help and even before she did the Stare Applejack asked if she's going to do it or not. In the end, it was only her decision, they even give her some time to think about it. Honestly, it's starting to annoy me. I know that Applejack isn't the most popular character and a lot of fans don't really care about her, but it makes me sad, because after all - Applejack was ready to sacrifice everything to save her friend and apologized. And if I remember correctly, she was the only one to apologize, while the others were probably just as 'guilty' as she was. 

 

 

ps sorry for my english

Edited December 31, 2013 by Anilewe

[LordDiscord 289]

You are aware that apples are not the only fruit in Equestria. Twilight spelled stopped them from liking apples, but they are still fruit bats, also that was only a small percentage of that population, their is no way in hell that was ALL of the vampire fruitbats in Equestria. Also to say AppleJack did not learn anything is kind of asinine, she sacrificed her largest apple to save Fluttershy(whether it was her fault or not is irrelevant)as well as felt embarrassed at the end when Fluttershy explained what she had learned.

[hawkflame 3,308]

A couple of points I'd like to make:

 

1) Am I the only one who thinks that perhaps the reason why they were able to build the reserve was because the Stare helped them buy the time to do so in the first place?

 

2) The brunt of the "bullying" comes from the song, and I wouldn't take that super literally, more of a figurative exaggeration happening in Fluttershy's head. The evidence for this? Rarity, when she comes out of the song. Her demeanor is calm and rational, saying that she sides with AJ because she made the better argument.

[DukeofCanterlot 158]

Yea, I noticed that in the "Bats!" episode but honestly, it's a Merriwether Williams episode. I watched the episode knowing that either Applejack or Fluttershy was going to come across as a total ass...she went for all of the Mane Six except Fluttershy this time but it worked well. Applejack realized where she went wrong by the time Fluttershy turned into a bat too and lost her asshole-like traits being primarily concerned with Fluttershy's safety.. she wasn't an overzealous asshole. It was also funny to see the following from the other ponies:
1.) Twilight making the same exact mistake as she made in "Swarm of the Century", :facepalm:
2.) Dash being a cider-holic.. begin the fanwork!

3.) Pinkie Pie having one of those genius moments which seemed to come from nowhere..

4.) Flutterbat.. the ending seemed to imply that might come in handy later in the season.
 

 

That sort of attitude has never been missing from Merriwether's episodes (I've been keeping track since "Mare Do-Well", arguably the worst episode in MLP:FiM history)... Fluttershy got her unintended revenge as Flutterbat though, in my opinion.. everypony, don't mess with Fluttershy when she still has a fang.

Edited January 2, 2014 by DukeofCanterlot

[FlutterDash4072 189]

No, not at all. They debated each other, Applejack won, and the rest pressured Fluttershy into helping.

[The Symphony of Discord 43]

I had a lot of trouble with this episode, and it completely came way out of left field for me.

 

Now, when the one song was playing in this episode, I didn't really feel for it, and the presentation of the other character's viewpoints was too blunt. For example, RD's only reason to side against Fluttershy was for the cider, which felt a bit OOC, considering that Dash's character has become much more complex and layered to make such a short-sighted conclusion.

 

As I listened, I had this idea in my head that there was an actual discussion among the group, and for some form of scripting/storytelling, it would be easier to overview the conversation through song.

 

Maybe Twilight did discuss the scientific reasons as to why Fluttershy was right, but fell along the lines of AJ's hardships in the end...

 

I may never know, but I thought it would be good to share my views with the episode.

 

In short, I believe the episode may have circulated around peer-pressure more than bullying really. But hey, that's just my theory.

Edited January 2, 2014 by The Symphony of Discord

[hawkflame 3,308]

In short, I believe the episode may have circulated around peer-pressure more than bullying really. But hey, that's just my theory.

I agree that it was likely more peer pressure than outright bullying. It may not have even been intentional on the part of the mane six. Just that Fluttershy is a bit more of the sensitive sort and is usually not comfortable standing on her own against her friends like that. Probably a combination of some peer pressure and her own naturally timid inclinations.

[Nature's Spell 526]

Yeah I don't think we were supposed to take the song seriously and as The Symphony of Discord said we don't really know what was discussed, so many points could have come out. The deck was stacked to go against Fluttershy, and for all we know Twilight (who's being unfairly attacked) supported her, but felt Applejack was right in the end.

I've said this before, but when we look too closely at an episode the whole thing can fall apart. Now we might feel the story should fall apart and was a bad idea, but one person'a most hated episode is another's favorite.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[Tan 91]

out right bullying? don't be absurd! It came off as peer pressure to me. Everyone has pretty much said why already. I was surprised to read so many posts about how up-tight people were about bats. I liked the episode alot, it had everything I could ask for in a my little pony episode except Luna. It was rather amusing to see so many posts about how this ep bothered people, it's really no big deal. Seeing stuff like this makes me question how bronies actually are. I seen evidence, like this thread, where most react in a manner that is over the top and stress over every LITTLE thing. I am rambling a bit, I'll stop now...

[The-Master 1,176]

out right bullying? don't be absurd! It came off as peer pressure to me. Everyone has pretty much said why already. I was surprised to read so many posts about how up-tight people were about bats. I liked the episode alot, it had everything I could ask for in a my little pony episode except Luna. It was rather amusing to see so many posts about how this ep bothered people, it's really no big deal. Seeing stuff like this makes me question how bronies actually are. I seen evidence, like this thread, where most react in a manner that is over the top and stress over every LITTLE thing. I am rambling a bit, I'll stop now...

 

Getting stressed over every little thing? Maybe, but that's just how the episode appears to someone with a more critical eye to the situation. Some people find it difficult to drive down a new road and point out every pothole they hit that shouldn't even be there in the first place. The episode had its flaws and it had plenty of them. These things can often begin to detract from the story if you start having to reason with yourself over them.

 

The scene where Fluttershy is being "peer pressured" by her friends actually causes someone I know to go into an anxiety attack. This isn't even a joke right now, they relate to her situation so much that the way the show portrays it is a trigger. People know what it's like to be in that situation and its even worse if the people you called friends are the ones subjecting you to it. I struggle to see how this sort reaction amuses you.

[Anilewe 2,178]

 

The scene where Fluttershy is being "peer pressured" by her friends actually causes someone I know to go into an anxiety attack. This isn't even a joke right now, they relate to her situation so much that the way the show portrays it is a trigger. People know what it's like to be in that situation and its even worse if the people you called friends are the ones subjecting you to it. I struggle to see how this sort reaction amuses you.

 

 

Well, if someone reacts this way to a scene from a cartoon it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with the show, rather with that person. And I'm not being mean here - seriously, it would be good if he/she go to a specialist, because it seems like a really huge problem and people who react this way need help.

 

I get your point, but it didn't change my opinion. They had to make it this way - Main 6 HAD to take Applejack's side. If they didn't, that would defeat the purpose of the episode (Flutterbat).  Maybe the song was a little too dark, but I still think that it was just for a visual effect. 

 

In the end, Applejack and her friends really cared about Fluttershy, and there's no need to assume that they wanted to hurt her or make her feel bad (which is the purpose of bullying). They just wanted to solve the problem and decided to focus on it. 

Edited January 2, 2014 by Anilewe

[Scootadress 360]

Well, if someone reacts this way to a scene from a cartoon it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with the show, rather with that person. And I'm not being mean here - seriously, it would be good if he/she go to a specialist, because it seems like a really huge problem and people who react this way need help.

 

I get your point, but it didn't change my opinion. They had to make it this way - Main 6 HAD to take Applejack's side. If they didn't, that would defeat the purpose of the episode (Flutterbat).  Maybe the song was a little too dark, but I still think that it was just for a visual effect. 

 

In the end, Applejack and her friends really cared about Fluttershy, and there's no need to assume that they wanted to hurt her or make her feel bad (which is the purpose of bullying). They just wanted to solve the problem and decided to focus on it. 

You can be a bully, but not realize you, in fact are the bully. There are other shows that show the aspect. Some people don't realize how they act. It wouldn't matter whether they intentionally had wanted her to feel bad, but she, in turn, felt bad. I know tons of people who are so headstrong, so determined to make their point across and can come off as a bully. Whether or not its intentional shouldn't be the focus. Whether they wanted to-they did so. 

[Anilewe 2,178]

You can be a bully, but not realize you, in fact are the bully. There are other shows that show the aspect. Some people don't realize how they act. It wouldn't matter whether they intentionally had wanted her to feel bad, but she, in turn, felt bad. I know tons of people who are so headstrong, so determined to make their point across and can come off as a bully. Whether or not its intentional shouldn't be the focus. Whether they wanted to-they did so. 

 

Personally, I wonder what's the purpose of this topic. In the end, they felt bad for it and Applejack apologized and this is the most important thing, in my opinion. We know these characters and we know that they would never hurt Fluttershy intentionally. I agree, sometimes a bully isn't aware of his actions but after all, they understood how their beahviour affected Fluttershy. And it doesn't change the fact, that she agreed to use The Stare. She felt forced to do so, yes, she wasn't happy about it, but still it was her own decision.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Anilewe

[Scootalove 10,684]

I think it was more of peer pressure when they were trying to convince Fluttershy to help them. When Twilight explains to Fluttershy about the repercussions if the Bats ate the entire orchard, it's more of the lines of group thinking once Fluttershy agreed to the plan so the spell can be performed.

[Zygen 6,065]

I dunno if i'd say bullied, as thats a bit strong, but she was peer pressured, which was essentially what this lesson was about, or rather the moral i guess. The whole don't let you friends pressure you into doing things that are wrong is basically peer pressure.

 

I did find it a bit odd for Twilight to side with AJ, and pinkie well... honestly I dunno if Pinkie is someone we should even begin to try to analyze how she should react.. I don't even..

 

My brain hurts already...

 

Rainbow i can see siding with AJ, AJ because its her farm, And Rarity because she doesn't like things like that really.

 

But i wouldn't say she was being bullied, just peer pressured, and being the shy and quiet one of the bunch she doesn't typically exert herself which leaves her most susceptible to peer pressure out of the bunch.

 

But i wouldn't say she was bullied no, this is coming from a Fluttershy fan to ;p.