the illusion of love and tolerance

[Nouva 4]

I have to do this I have to address the elephant in the room.

 

We bronies who say love and tolerate to ask those who attack and infant is from the outside have little of those qualities when addressing groups within the herd. Instead of hearing "If that is your interest I will not judge." 

We hear "rule 34 is disgusting, clopfics are horrible, creepy-pastas (I hope I got that right) are ruining the show for me, I hate silicone Twilight."

 

For a fandom that swears to live by love and tolerance where is it down to reach other?

Edited January 2, 2014 by Nouva

[Standard User 2,127]

"Love and tolerate" doesn't mean "accept everything about everyone ever." We can all agree that Hitler was a bad dude, right? We don't love and tolerate that. Similarly, people have differing opinions. Some people like clop, others don't. They can express their opinions, whether they are positive or negative. When one side outright attacks the other, then you can use the "love and tolerate" argument.

[Nouva 4]

I understand where you are coming from those that break the three fundamental laws of saipent beings (do not be a thief, do not be a rapist, do not be a murderer) are clearly an exception. Even holding negative options are fine, but more often than not a brony will trot over another brony's opinion.

 

One brony says "I hate rule 34 it is disgusting." Although I disagree with this ' tone' of speech it is one's opinion

Another brony would say "Get over yourself" (or worse)

 

Maybe I mis worded, maybe I failed to fully lay my thoughts out. I'll try again.

 

My main issue is not the opinions held, it is the way they are said (at times) and the rally against an opinion on both sides that gets me.

Yes we are all human and we do have suffering opinions. But we can still respect each other and at least give some respect for another' s thoughts.

 

I hope this makes things clearer.

[GrimCW 658]

For a fandom that swears to live by love and tolerance where is it down to reach other?

 

I don't follow it myself, or as a fan.

 

Myself because its just impractical, and as a fan because it IS NOT part of the show in any way.

 

This is a bogus rumor started about the web, most likely by someone who's never seen the show and someone they convinced others it was about this blatant lie. Your topic title is dead accurate in it being an "illusion" mind you.

 

The show is about FRIENDSHIP and how FRIENDS should be to one another. How friends should back one another up. Give as much, if not more, than they take. And how true friends will just always be there even when they seem like they aren't.

 

If it had any theme of "love and tolerate" than it went out the door with Gilda and Trixie. They were neither loved, nor tolerated. Same goes for the diamond dogs, the dragon, and a host of other characters throughout.

 

The closest thing to this concept that I'd seen was in "Bridle Gossip" when they learned they shouldn't judge others simply on appearance. But it had nothing still to do with love and tolerance.

 

 

 

But we can still respect each other and at least give some respect for another' s thoughts.

 

 

This is a common life concept, but one that ever only seems to work in theory.

While all should respect one another, few do.

 

The other problem is that one person may have thoughts about someone elses thoughts. And thats where things break down.

Respecting one anothers thoughts isn't allowing direct attacks to go unnoticed, or ignored, and some people will take things very personally. While they may respect the counter points to their own, they may also be coming off as not while they lay out their reasons for their opinions.

So its really a fine line to consider.

Edited January 2, 2014 by GrimCW

[Onylex 2,837]

Honestly I v never understood the whole "love and tolerate" thing, think when people say that they aren't really being sincere about it. 

Its gotten to the point where it just sounds like a saying with an empty meaning.

 

People have opinions and can like or dislike what ever they want, the only thing about that is it depends on how you express your opinion. If you're an ass about it you're likely going to get a negative response.

 

When most people see that saying they often times just automatically assume that it means accept all no matter what.

 

To tolerate is to be patient of something that one does not necessarily agree with. 

Love in this case doesn't necessarily mean literal "love", more so that you can respect their opinion. 

Edited January 2, 2014 by Onylex

[Moonlight 7,287]

I never really got the whole "Love and Tolerate" saying, myself. I definitely don't follow it and it's just impossible to be loving or tolerant of every single thing. Differences in opinions bound to get in the way, anyway. It's fine to respect another's opinion and all, but that's a little harder to do than it actually sounds. Besides, the show never mentioned "love and tolerance" so it's just a really stupid saying to me that no one will actually willingly follow. 

[Nouva 4]

I don't follow it myself, or as a fan.

 

Myself because its just impractical, and as a fan because it IS NOT part of the show in any way.

I will say the excact message of the show in Canon is love and tolerate and that it is mainly fanon (so to speak)

As for being impracrical, I disagree if all people stopped to think about how and why a person has their beliefs and respect their thoughts, even if they disapprove of them, the world would be a better place

 

 

This is a bogus rumor started about the web, most likely by someone who's never seen the show and someone they convinced others it was about this blatant lie. Your topic title is dead accurate in it being an "illusion" mind you.

 

The show is about FRIENDSHIP and how FRIENDS should be to one another. How friends should back one another up. Give as much, if not more, than they take. And how true friends will just always be there even when they seem like they aren't.

 

If it had any theme of "love and tolerate" than it went out the door with Gilda and Trixie. They were neither loved, nor tolerated. Same goes for the diamond dogs, the dragon, and a host of other characters throughout.

 

First I would say friends are friends because they love and tolerate each other not simply "back them up"

Second as for the "villains" both listed and the ones you have not.

 

Gilda, was tolerated, even to the point Pinkie threw her a party to try and get her in a better mood, it was Gilda that raged and flew off in a temper

Trixie, had her redemption and acceptance part at the end of Magic Duel

The Diamond Dogs, this one can be read two ways in my mind 1. The Diamond dogs were shown as creatures of instinct, seeking diamonds as daschund seeks moles 2. Rarity could have escaped (she had been shown to be very proficient with telekinesis) and decided to flip the servant/master tables on them to show them their actions were wrong.

Dragon, diplomacy was the first plan and even acted on

Manticore, was dealt with in a loving peaceful manner by Fluttershy

Iron Will, had opinion was expected but he was also held accountable for the guarantee he made

Luna, was forgiven and is now loved by at one subject

 

I could go on but the point I would like to make is, to me, love and tolerate is not "roll over and accept everything" to me it is respecting people and treating everyone as equals.

I never really got the whole "Love and Tolerate" saying, myself. I definitely don't follow it and it's just impossible to be loving or tolerant of every single thing. Differences in opinions bound to get in the way, anyway. It's fine to respect another's opinion and all, but that's a little harder to do than it actually sounds. Besides, the show never mentioned "love and tolerance" so it's just a really stupid saying to me that no one will actually willingly follow. 

It is impossible to love and tolerate ​everything. ​

Yes it is hard, very hard to respect everyone's opinions but I do love by love and tolerate and I strive my hardest every day. 

[Koelath 445]

the three fundamental laws of saipent beings (do not be a thief, do not be a rapist, do not be a murderer)

 

Laws are a legal construct invented and enforced by humans. They are in no way necessary for sapient beings, thus they are not "fundamental". Don't just throw around words.

 

As for "love and tolerance"...I love my niece. I tolerate loud people at restaurants. But I have no need or obligation or benefit to tolerate any given opinion, and I certainly don't love the majority of people.

[GrimCW 658]

@@Nouva,

 

May want to work on your quote work.

 

Friends are going to love and tolerate one another, they're friends and its expected of them. Thats part of BEING friends. Its part of being there for each other, and having one anothers back in times of need. Would you call someone a friend if you didn't care for them? or couldn't tolerate who/what they were? Would you want someone to be your friend if they didn't care for, nor tolerate you? A true friend will always show both.

 

But the concept that it extends to others is laughable, as even in the show many characters are neither loved by the main cast, nor tolerated. Nor are they made friends.

Your not going to be friends with everyone, nor will everyone wish to be your friend. The show makes this very clear in some situations.

 

Gilda was also driven off by Rainbow dash's words toward her. RD specifically told her to "Find some new friends somewhere else". RD cut her off as a friend, not very tolerant. I agree Pinkie was trying to be tolerant, and trying to help her see the light. But it didn't work out, and Gilda's actions went untolerated by RD whom took offense that Gilda had accused her new friends of being "uncool".

 

Trixie, while forgiven, is still not loved by the cast. And she still was not tolerated for her actions in either episode. In fact, in her introduction episode, 5 of the main 6 tried to put her down right at the beginning. Not very tolerant are they? If they were, they would've just let her continue her show and leave. No harm would've actually come of it. Its actually the main casts lack of tolerance in this situation that cause Snips and snails to try to prove trixie was powerful.

 

The diamond dogs were still regarded as bad characters, right to the end. Even after Rarity humbled them. And off they went. No love, no tolerance. In fact, the ponies were ready to kick their hides.

 

The dragon wasn't being tolerated at all, nor shown love. Not sure what your point is there. If they had such regards toward him they would've let him stay, or at least offered help in his relocation. That is a LOT of treasure he had there that needed to be moved after all. Instead they went there to insist he leaves, or force him out. While asking politely was the first idea, they weren't going to stop there if he refused. Right to the point where Rainbow even assaulted him and Rarity tried to steal from him.

 

Manticore was an obvious choice, good pick, but doesn't change others. Though the whole point of this scene was to show Fluttershy's kindness toward others.

 

Iron will was still regarded in a negative light, and held to it. His actions weren't tolerated even to the end. Nor was he cared for by any. Even fluttershy, the element of kindness, told him off.

 

Luna is/was, nightmare moon however was not and was previously banished, and then dispelled. And if you go by the comics, eventually killed off as well.

 

 

Even discord is hardly tolerated, or cared for. S4's opening has him accused with no real evidence, and his friendship is threatened unless he helped them to clean up (not a very good thing to do to a friend either.. using friendship as a threat..)

In fact, in order to rehabilitate him, they forced him to change his ways in a manner thats not tolerant at all.

He is a creature of discord, a creature of chaos. To force him into act with regard to others is intolerance of his entire purpose in existing at best.

Edited January 2, 2014 by GrimCW

[SonicBoom 1]

I believe that it's okay if it doesn't hurt somebody.

[Felix 1,363]

I just wanted to pop in real fast. I think when people say "Love & Tolerate" they're not really thinking straight. In no way is it possible to tolerate everyone, that's just insane, no matter how nice you are. So I agree there. But for that reason, the statement really shouldn't be taken to that extent. I do follow a sense of love and tolerance, yes, but only to those that can actually be tolerated. Basically, if you're an absolute jerk, no, I'm not gonna tolerate you very well. I think if you're gonna love and tolerate you need to set your own boundaries by which you mean to support others. Not everyone is the same. Some people can hardly bear really nice people. No ones tolerance will ever level to the same type of people. Love and tolerating someone is a personal thing to do. When you do it, it's showing your support for that person and the amount of love you give them. You're not trying to treat everyone with such affection, but you're setting your own form of it. Love and tolerance is your own feelings that come from your heart. That's what it means. So, I get where you're coming from. Someone on this topic said it had an empty meaning. I think it's because everyone expects the statement to mean that someone who follows it strictly is the nicest person in the world. To be honest, that's a very distressful title to retain, and in some ways it's cold because people expect too much from you. That's why its lost its meaning. The set expectation for the moral is impossible to achieve. It's cold hearted pressure on someone who follows it.

 

There should be no expectation for ones love and tolerance. What a person gives you, shares with you, that's from their heart is their love and tolerance for you, and that's when it has meaning. Not trying to meet an expectation, but truly mean and show their own level of love and tolerance from deep within their hearts.

Edited January 2, 2014 by FeIix

[FNGRpony 658]

Ahem, seeing as how i'm part of team bad guy,

 

and identifiy with the love drinking race of changelings that love and tolerate nonsense is for bronies with pony ocs ^^.

That being said Love and open minded ness is just an excuse, is and always has been to have a new list of people that are okay to hate.

 

Who in popular trends or opinions can we hate today?
Fat people?  Smokers?  People of duck dynasty?  (I hated all of those people a long time ago LOL and didn't need a green light to go ahead).

 

LIke seriously cherry pickers will exempt you hate specific things as the "Safe to hate list.

[Solid 1,327]

It's generalization in effect.

 

You can go check this post

http://mlpforums.com/topic/62018-clop-survey/

 

As you can see over half the participants admitted that they clopped at least once.

 

Just b/c a few ppl bad mouthed something doesn't mean they all hate, most bronies/pegasisters do follow "love and tolerate."

[Nightmare Night 151]

I wouldnt say I love everything, but I do try to tolerate everyone I meet, to an extent.

[Scootalove 10,689]

I've noticed the love and tolerate thing a lot, but it's not easy loving and tolerating everyone including their own opinions. If you follow that, that's what you choose to do. I just don't follow it.