Is Nightmare Moon Evil?

[NavelColt 22,880]

Nightmare Moon is a manifestation of vengeance, hate and jealousy, which was born from Luna's emotions of that nature towards Celestia back in the ancient day, amplified ten fold. Nightmare Moon, as just Nightmare Moon, is certainly worthy of being called 'evil'. She has no moral bounds against killing/destroying those she doesn't like, as she tried to obliterate Celestia, her desire was to coat the nation in forever night based purely on that jealousy, and has no care about how the plant life and animal life of the nation would be put into jeopardy due to that, etc.

[Castle Bleck 19,361]

NMM = evil, Luna = good.

 

KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Even more specific

Modern Luna=Hero

Ancient Luna=Anti-Villain/Anti-Hero

Nightmare Moon=Villain

[Sekhayet 253]

A truly evil being would have simply annihilated anything and everything before them. NMM cannot be truly evil since she didn't exactly do that.
 
What she is... is human... shocker, I know. She just happens to have the ability to raise and lower the moon- her motivations are like any other person that is essentially ignored and feared regardless of how well her actions counter that. She wanted to be "loved" (ie. the main deity of her race) and attempted to do so. She failed and so pony society (and us by extension) label her as "evil".
 
If the show took place in a universe a la After That Fateful Night would you have the same point of view? No. Equestrian history would have been totally different.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

It is established as fact by the staff that eternal night would be devastating, Lauren Faust even saying that not only would NMM bring eternal night but an era of evil if she won.

Edited February 21, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Sekhayet 253]

It is established as fact by the staff that eternal night would be devastating, Lauren Faust even saying that not only would NMM bring eternal night but an era of evil if she won.

 

Then why are we even having this discussion? Straight Word-of-God says she's evil.

 

/thread

Edited February 21, 2014 by Sekhayet

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Sekhayet,

Because people like to white wash her and portray her as a hero, much like that fanfic you posted

[Sekhayet 253]

@@Sekhayet,

Because people like to white wash her and portray her as a hero, much like that fanfic you posted

 

She tortures Twilight. And almost everyone hates her. Yet... some ponies do like her and respect her. She's very much grey. 

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Sekhayet,

That is white washing when the real Nightmare Moon was going to kill everyone on the planet. That'd be like me saying this guy is just a misunderstood

It's okay that he's willing to kill billions, he just wants to be appreciated! 

[Sanctified Absence 126]

Although this thread has been enlightening in some respects, was it not obvious from the beginning?

 

Nightmare Moon, no matter what you believe the canon is, basically represents the Darkness in Luna's heart. So while Luna may have a mixture of dark and "pure," qualities, it is safe to assume that Nightmare is entirely made of the dark ones.

 

Nightmare Moon, in a sense, is the very essence of evil inside Luna.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

NO, BBY, SHE'S JUST MISUNDERSTOOD!

 

That's the argument that gets used and they say that Luna was brain washed by the Elements 

[Sanctified Absence 126]

@,

NO, BBY, SHE'S JUST MISUNDERSTOOD!

 

That's the argument that gets used and they say that Luna was brain washed by the Elements 

 

They can argue that Luna herself was not evil/selfish/whatever, that's understandable.

 

But without question, NNM is evil.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Blissful Chaos

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Nope, they're arguing how they would support Nightmare Moon, she was justified, how Celestia deserves it, etc. 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@,

It doesn't change the fact that the creator says Nightmare Moon is evil, the offical MLP comics supporting this. That and in Lunar Eclipsed Princess Luna says in no uncertain terms Nightmare Moon was a monster.

[SharpWit 2,648]

 

 

The enormity of the cluster f*ck that will happen in Canterlot will be something like the Changeling invasion battle, that's enough chaos to free Discord.

One problem with all of this. Location, location, location. 

 

Discord's stupidity makes him less dangerous, if you stay out of his way, he'll leave you alone whereas Nightmare Moon will track you down 

 It's more of ignorance and wanting to mess around more than actually hurt anyone that makes him dangerous. 

 

Nope, they're arguing how they would support Nightmare Moon, she was justified, how Celestia deserves it, etc. 

Who are you talking about? I haven't seen any of that on here

[Castle Bleck 19,361]

I've read one fanfic, The Lost Element, where a NMM-redemption is pulled off believably well.

 

Hell of a Tear Jerker, though, upon remembering the canon NMM is essentially a female Sombra.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Anti-Villain

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Well....I have Sombra worse than Nightmare Moon. Sombra seemed to delight in chaining ponies just to see them suffer. I didn't see them working anything, he probably chained them up to be a douche 

[TwilightDreamer 69]

I've been speculating on this matter concerning Luna's darkness but I've come to the conclusion that she's not really that evil as everypony in Equestria who has heard of the tragic tale of her may initially think.

 

In the eyes of all of Equestria, she may be evil and considered to be a monster but to those or someone like me who delve deep into beginnings and try to imagine themselves in her horseshoes, she can't be really classified as "evil". Granted, she did try to throw Equestria into eternal night twice in accounts of revenge, anger and jealousy for being left out fueled inside of Luna since she didn't go to her sister to explain about the issues as they getting worse than usual despite her having addressed that concern a number of times to Celestia but the latter never got around to solving these issues until too late when she protected Equestria but at a high price she wasn't even ready to prepare; banishing her sister to the moon alongside Nightmare Moon. Nightmare  Moon was only doing what she believes in her own way is right but took about it in the wrong direction so I wouldn't really truly classify her as evil, just a pony who is misunderstood and underrated in praise.

 

I think she might be at fault here on this matter just as everypony else before; she went about her ambition to gain the popularity she so desperately wanted the wrong way and it had undesirable consequences that even she wasn't prepared for. Although I have to say, it was not just her fault but also that of Celestia and the subjects of her and Luna back then. The Day that Celestia brought to them was all they wanted and they held it in high praise and they just discarded the night and the younger princess altogether. I wouldn't go that far to say the she's evil, just only an entity cast away into the shadows yearning to become something more than she already is.

[Plato's Pony 455]

Before you go away thinking I'm crazy, please, just hear me out.

 

Before I get into my reasoning, I'd like to clarify that you don't need to be evil to be an antagonist.  The google definition of an antagonist is "a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something" however, the literary definition of an antagonist is someone or something that creates the conflict for the protagonist (main character).  So, if your main character is a dude living in New York and there's this innocent little baby flying a plane who happens to accidentally drop a thermonuclear bomb on Pittsburgh (which is where the New York dude's parents are living), the antagonist is the innocent baby (whom is no longer innocent in this case) or, some would argue, the antagonist is the thermonuclear bomb, which is also not evil.

 

 

Back to the point of this topic

 

 

There is a debate as to whether Nightmare Moon is an evil, wannabe dictator of Equestria or not.  Here, I will give my reasoning as to why I believe Nightmare Moon is actually not evil.

 

 

Let's take a look at Luna's emotions which lead to her becoming Nightmare Moon and see if we can find any evil intentions (evil intention: the wanting to cause harm to another person or persons for an irrelevant or illogical reason):

 

• Jealousy - she felt like her sister was hogging the limelight
• Demand for respect - wanted ponies to pay tribute to her for creating the night as they did to her sister for creating the day

 

Okay, jealousy or her sister.  In Twilight's flashback, she tried to kill her sister by striking her with an alicorn-beam, which could be considered an evil intention by some.  However, looking back on the scene, it seems like Luna was just having an advanced form of a temper tantrum.  I believe Nightmare Moon is merely Luna expressing all of her negative emotions at once, and is just Luna hiding her good self behind the wall that is her bad self.

 

Back to the temper tantrum idea, if you have a little kid who's screaming and crying and throwing stuff at walls, does that mean they're evil?  In some cases, yes, but in most, no.  You can imagine Luna having a temper tantrum at the time, I mean, she was only around 500 years old, which is considered a teenager in alicorn years (and you know how teenage girls are).

 

 

Moving onto her demand for respect, I wouldn't say she was demanding respect, at least, not before she turned into her Nightmare Moon form.  She was living for hundreds of years in her sister's shadow, and not one pony seemed to care for her or her night.  To put that into perspective, imagine being shunned your entire life, no one paying attention to any of your accomplishments.  After living for around 500 years in the shadows, she did the one thing that could get ponies to finally pay her their respect: make it night 24/7.  Of course, night 24/7 would mean crops would die leading to famine.  However, no ponies means no respect and surely Nightmare Moon didn't mean for the death of every pony in the world, which then would be an evil intention.

 

Had Nightmare Moon been thinking clearly, she would have realized her actions would eventually work against her, which strengthens my theory she was merely having a temper tantrum.

 

After Luna went through her Nightmare Moon transformation, she tried to kill Celestia, which is an evil thing to do.  But remember: temper tantrum!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Nightmare Moon and the Mane Six

 

 

 

When Nightmare Moon returned from her 1000 year banishment to the moon, she still had her same intentions; get rid of Celestia, bring eternal night.  I'd like to point out, though, that she wasn't trying to cause any direct harm to all the ponies around her.  So far, the only ponies she actually did inflict any harm on were Celestia and the guards who were trying to arrest her.  Which brings me to the Mane Six...

 

 

The Mane Six were the only ones, besides the guards, who even tried to stop her by retrieving the Elements of Harmony. But let me get to the main point: she didn't try to kill the Mane Six.  She simply put up obstacles in their path in the hopes to scare them away.  Some would argue that it was just really bad writing, and that she did mean to kill them.  But, really?  Making trees look scary isn't gonna kill anyone.  Taking away a water serpent's mustache isn't gonna kill anyone.  Yes, she did almost make them fall off a cliff, but only a really dumb person wouldn't notice the two pegasi.  So, really.  She wasn't meaning to cause anyone harm besides her sister, whom she didn't even kill on her return as she said she would: "I have but one royal duty now: TO DESTROY YOU!!!".  Celestia returned at the end of episode two, unharmed.

 

 

 

Summary (for those of you too lazy to read the whole thing):

 

-Luna was just having a god-level temper tantrum

 

-Nightmare Moon didn't intend any harm to anyone or anything besides her sister, whom was still kept alive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For those of you who did read the whole thing, thank you, and if you have any comments or if you disagree with me, please post below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

She wasn't jealous, she was envious, and both are bad. They're plain unhealthy, the hatred consumes you. Temper tantrum or not trying to take someone's life is bad.

 

"oh-- i didnt mean to kill them, i had a temper tantrum", is a POOR excuse. Having temper tantrums means you need to get a hold of your emotions and dont just act out, think first.

 

Nightmare moon was bad, and so is eternal night. Sun light is the base of most all of modern life.

Edited December 28, 2014 by NotoriousSMALL

[TheDashingRainbow 134]

I'm not an expert on these sort of things.. but what you're saying makes sense to me.. nice detective skills. c:

[Moonlight 7,286]

The only difference between a kid throwing a tantrum and Nightmare Moon is that Nightmare Moon could actually result in ponies dead.

 

Wanting to literally kill your sister isn't a temper tantrum and you will automatically be considered evil because you didn't have the common sense to tell your sister how you felt about being ignored (because being ignored automatically means you must turn evil, attempt to harm your own sister, and then shroud the entire land in darkness, right?)

 

Luna was being a whiny baby who shouldn't have expected Celestia to automatically know her feelings, since rulers are kind of...busy ruling. If she went to Celestia for her problems first, things would be different, but she didn't. No excuses for the way she acted, none. 

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

Having temper tantrums means you need to get a hold of your emotions and dont just act out, think first.

 

But that's the point.  She wasn't thinking.  And if she wasn't thinking, she must have not been trying to be evil. 

 

 

Luna was being a whiny baby who shouldn't have expected Celestia to automatically know her feelings, since rulers are kind of...busy ruling.

 

 

That leads me to point out the main role of being an older sister or brother.  Older siblings should always put their younger siblings first, even if that means giving up their power over other people.  Luna wasn't wrong to expect her sister would eventually stand up for her, however, it is true that she should've told her feelings to her sister to make things right.  If anyone was wrong in this situation, it would be Celestia, for not noticing her younger sister's emotional problems (it's not like Celestia is locked up in a box, ruling her kingdom from there.  She must have at least some contact with her sister).

 

 

 

because being ignored automatically means you must turn evil, attempt to harm your own sister, and then shroud the entire land in darkness, right?

 

She wasn't being ignored for just days or weeks or months.  She was shunned for hundreds of years.  Imagine what kind of emotional impact that would have on a person (of course, no one is known to have lived longer than 122 years, but you get the idea).

[Castle Bleck 19,361]

According to the comics, NMM was but Luna wasn't.

[zaqwert11 70]

i agree with you. nightmare moon/luna is not evil. she just wants respect. her plan wasnt ment to harm

anyone (as far as we know) but still it could have. so basicly she isnt evil but the way she tries to gain

her goal is an evil way