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Russo-Ukrainian conflict


Diamondeye83

Russo-ukrainian Conflict  

14 users have voted

  1. 1. Is Russia Justified?

    • No! Leave Ukraine to the new government!
      8
    • Yes! Most of the people of Crimea are ethnically Russian!
      4
    • Wait, what's going on?
      0
    • I have no opinion, let them sort it out.
      2
    • Where's Ukraine?
      0
    • yes! The Ukrainian government is too young to deal with themselves!
      0


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(edited)

Well, as most of us probably know by now, about 16,000 Russian forces have occupied Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, and have surrounded several military bases. What do you think about this? Should Russia be messing with ukraine's affairs? Should the West be involved? Obviously, this is an unfolding story, so feel free to use information as it is reported.

Edited by Diamondeye83
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This is a similar situation to when Hitler took the Rhineland, the Rhineland much like Crimea was a disputed region, although in this case it was part of France and the Germans took it. I'm not saying Putin is Hitler, but he may be testing the waters to see how much he could get away with like Hitler was. Hitler himself said if they had stopped him or done anything to him for taking the Rhine he would have never attempted to take the rest of Europe. On this coin, just as a mere precaution that history would repeat, decisive action should be taken against Russia, I'm not saying military action, but appeasement will set them down the road that occurred when Hitler took the Rhine.

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Serbon covers the Russian Right to Crimea here.

The west needs to solve its own problems.

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(edited)

Agreed. This isn't the first time that Putin has tried to expand Russian borders; in 2008 he invaded georgia. he is proving rather disagreeable with EU threats of sanctions, and many countries (especially Germany, but also France and Italy) fear that Russian sacntions would hurt their own economies, so there is a rather difficult situation unfolding.

 

@Sergei

This is a good point, however, Russia is not being terribly dimplomatic about this. There is really no threat from Kiev to Russian intrests in Crimea, and this also puts enormous stress on the new Ukranian P.M., who assumed office about a week ago.

Edited by Diamondeye83
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Serbon's blog on this issue is supremely knowledgeable; even more remarkable considering his highschool freshman age.

 

Here is what I understand so far.

 

this is not a Russia vs. Ukraine contest. It's a Russia vs. Globalism contest, with globalism represented of course by the EU and the Western Elite. John Kerry is speaking against Moscow and infavor of the Ukrainian protestors, promising foreign aid to Ukraine and sanctions against Russia (what does he want? Another Holodomor?) While alot of Ukrainians genuinely are angry about Viktor Yanukovych's decision to stand with Russia instead of the EU, this is motivated by economic reasons (Ukraine is among Europe's poorest countries, with a per capita income of roughly $6,000 U.S.), not by fondness for the sinister forces that control the EU and the globalist West.

 

It is truly awful that this is happening. What Ukraine needs to do is stand with Russia, united by the Orthodox faith and Slavic ethnicity and shared opposition to Western imperialism and cultural degeneracy.


On 4/12/2014 at 0:00 AM, Miaq_The_Truthful said:

This is the internet, not reality.

 

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(edited)

Russia going into Ukraine is like the US going into Vietnam.. (except Vietnam was successful in maintaining its communism). It might be unfavorable for Ukraine to have its new government (or leader, more or so), but there's no need to be spilling blood about it unless more life and death issues are the direct result of Ukraine's leadership.

 

I might not exactly know what I'm saying, so correct me if need-be.

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Russia going into Ukraine is like the US going into Vietnam.. (except Vietnam was successful in maintaining its communism). It might be unfavorable for Ukraine to have its new government (or leader, more or so), but there's no need to be spilling blood about it unless more life and death issues are the direct result of Ukraine's leadership.

 

I might not exactly know what I'm saying, so correct me if need-be.

No, Russia Invadeing the Ukraine is more like the US invading The Guam islands, or P.R. The area is considered ethnically russian, and is their only naval access to the black sea. That being said, they are moving in to secure ports for their navy, as loosing that area would result in them loosing access to the black sea, somthing that Russia cannot allow if they want to remain a power. 

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Russia going into Ukraine is like the US going into Vietnam.. (except Vietnam was successful in maintaining its communism). It might be unfavorable for Ukraine to have its new government (or leader, more or so), but there's no need to be spilling blood about it unless more life and death issues are the direct result of Ukraine's leadership.

 

I might not exactly know what I'm saying, so correct me if need-be.

 

You may say that Russia is going into the Ukraine for its own good governmentally, but in today's age the way they handled the situation is completely off-base. The UN Security Council (of which Russia is a part) can vote on whether intervention is necessary or good, this is the first step. This step was bypassed, but putting that aside Russia still could have handled it by informing the international community of their intentions, so far their intentions aren't clear, they haven't told us, the international community, what they are trying to accomplish with these actions. On top of this, the backlash of many super powers against this action, primarily the US, shows that this form of intervention isn't what the international community wants. So even if this is their intentions, the politics were way off and in fact the first course of action toward a change in government is diplomatic, not a use of force or aggression.

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No, Russia Invadeing the Ukraine is more like the US invading The Guam islands, or P.R. The area is considered ethnically russian, and is their only naval access to the black sea. That being said, they are moving in to secure ports for their navy, as loosing that area would result in them loosing access to the black sea, somthing that Russia cannot allow if they want to remain a power. 

Ehh... I meant Vietnam as in, unfavorable government in half the country by an outsider. I might be confusing myself!

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You may say that Russia is going into the Ukraine for its own good governmentally, but in today's age the way they handled the situation is completely off-base. The UN Security Council (of which Russia is a part) can vote on whether intervention is necessary or good, this is the first step. This step was bypassed, but putting that aside Russia still could have handled it by informing the international community of their intentions, so far their intentions aren't clear, they haven't told us, the international community, what they are trying to accomplish with these actions. On top of this, the backlash of many super powers against this action, primarily the US, shows that this form of intervention isn't what the international community wants. So even if this is their intentions, the politics were way off and in fact the first course of action toward a change in government is diplomatic, not a use of force or aggression.

We all know the US isn't going to really do anything other than saber rattle at this point. 3 wars ago we might have, but not now. Along with the fact that China stated they would back Russia in the event NATO (which would occur if the US intervened) gets involved in Ukraine. There may be alot of talk, but at this point both the UN and NATO are standing down for the most part. 

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Yay! Geopolitics was so boring, now we could have a war!!!!! *squee*

 

 

Just kidding!! But seriously, this, plus Russia's ongoing "police action" in Georgia are very reminiscent of Hitler's rise to power and the road to World War II. Now, Putin is not nearly as crazy at Hitler, he's smart. He won't do anything too rash or drastic, but the possibility of a contain conflict within Ukraine, with Separatists from Crimea fighting the Ukrainian government as a proxy for Russia could happen. 

 

Not to mention technically the USA and UK are bound by treaty to defend Ukraine from Russian invasion, so this could get dicey if it escalates any further. 

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We all know the US isn't going to really do anything other than saber rattle at this point. 3 wars ago we might have, but not now. Along with the fact that China stated they would back Russia in the event NATO (which would occur if the US intervened) gets involved in Ukraine. There may be alot of talk, but at this point both the UN and NATO are standing down for the most part. 

 

Yeah I fear this will happen, it reminds me too much, like I said above, the appeasement policy immediately preceding the European Front of WWII. I'm not saying this will lead to WWIII, but we must tread lightly and with certainty if this is going to be resolved peacefully with compromises on both sides.


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Yeah I fear this will happen, it reminds me too much, like I said above, the appeasement policy immediately preceding the European Front of WWII. I'm not saying this will lead to WWIII, but we must tread lightly and with certainty if this is going to be resolved peacefully with compromises on both sides.

Obama is a fairly weak willed president, and this may help avert WWIII in this case. China has openly said they will start to require us debt loan payments should we get involved in this brewing conflict, which would cause the US to declare war on China. But thankfully, with Obama being fairly weak willed, NATO is standing down, and we have already tried to begin peaceful talks with Russia. 

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well a not so friend over at skype whining about this causing world war 3  i wish i could bitch slap him he was soo annoying and basicly he kept shoving it down my throat

 

well i'm just hoping this doesn't become war if it does i'l just be happily sitting in the philiphines watching the events unfold... praying that my country wont get involve


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Obama is a fairly weak willed president, and this may help avert WWIII in this case. China has openly said they will start to require us debt loan payments should we get involved in this brewing conflict, which would cause the US to declare war on China. But thankfully, with Obama being fairly weak willed, NATO is standing down, and we have already tried to begin peaceful talks with Russia. 

 

Yeah, Obama's actions may be representative of the growing American ideals of isolationism, although you'd think they'd realize that never works...


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Yeah, Obama's actions may be representative of the growing American ideals of isolationism, although you'd think they'd realize that never works...

Isolationism works great man. It would have kept us out of Iraq during the 80s to make the issue we have their today. It would have stopped the current relationship we have with Iran. It would have kept our economy from going 17 trillion in the tank. Policing the world just isn't good for us man. 

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Isolationism works great man. It would have kept us out of Iraq during the 80s to make the issue we have their today. It would have stopped the current relationship we have with Iran. It would have kept our economy from going 17 trillion in the tank. Policing the world just isn't good for us man. 

 

I don't think the world police idea is any more viable than isolationism, there has to be a happy medium. Isolation results in greater conflicts when they do occur, and policing the world isn't viable for self-explanatory reasons. 


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Yeah, Obama's actions may be representative of the growing American ideals of isolationism, although you'd think they'd realize that never works...

I'm not sure if you are referring to the American people's ideals, but, if so, that is not true. Granted, many countries have ethnocentric people, but the United States has along history of having strong relations with other countries.

@Miaq_the_Liar

 

Ok, you've got a few fact confused here. Firstly, China has not made a public stand on the situation in Russia. Also, isolationism is never a good thing. Some countries that were isolated: 18th century China- steamrolled by britain. North Korea- You can see how that's going. The British-French embargo by the US- nearly broke the US economy. granted, being involved in everyone's affairs isn't ideal, but just letting eveyone do what they want isnt the answer either. And no one really wants to go into another war, not even Russia. Putin is expanding, he has done it before(Georgia 2008), and he did it again in Ukraine. The Crime parliament (which is separate from the ukrainian one) is voting to  seperate from Ukraine. Therefore, this will probably just diffuse itself quickly.

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