How far is Hasbro C&D willing to go?

[Arkane 270]

I expect them to go further to fanarts and music. Likely impossible but they'll find a way. The same thing when I expected Button's Adventures to get taken down sooner or later the first time I saw it.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 513]

I expect them to go further to fanarts and music. Likely impossible but they'll find a way. The same thing when I expected Button's Adventures to get taken down sooner or later the first time I saw it.

 

Probably, given the amount of discussions this particular subject seems to be getting-it doesn't seem like the laws regarding copyright are very clear-so fan artists, fanfic writers, and musicians who don't know the law too well, could easily be intimidated an not want to risk jeopardizing their future careers (like Jan).

 

Regardless of whether Hasbro is right or wrong, I think their intentions should be clear for those of us who aren't entirely certain what fan material they consider to be 'okay'. 

Edited March 24, 2014 by TimeLordRainbowDash

[Guest]

Actually there is something that can be done. A petition and a boycott that people ACTUALLY follow would kick them right where it hurts. The wallet and PR.

But thats not likely to happen, and is why large companies like Hasbro feel this is the right approach to things.

A petition and boycott... To tell Hasbro not to use their rights? That'll backfire insanely, if it ever reaches the news, Hasbro can just point out you ripped off their IP and people will feel less sympathetic with you. Plus people are going to feel less sympathetic with a group of bronies anyways.

 

The simple version is:  you have no legal grounds. Literally, none. If Jan Animations had legal grounds they would have kept the videos up and let Hasbro take them to court, clearly they did not.

[LordDiscord 289]

As unfortunate as it has been for Jan to receive the ''Cease and Desist'' order, I believe we are blowing this out of proportion. Hasbro (so far) has been fair with our use of their IP, as long as we don't challenge them or claim we own their IP then I feel they won't have much of a problem with us.

Edited March 24, 2014 by LordDiscord

[Guest]

As unfortunate as it has been for Jan to receive the ''Cease and Desist'' order, I believe we are blowing this out of proportion. Hasbro (so far) has been fair with our use of their IP, as long as we don't challenge them or claim we own their IP then I feel they won't have much of a problem with us.

Exactly, but when you make a big scene like this and scream how they are "infringing our creativity" and demand people petition and boycott Hasbro for using their rights, they definitely are not going to be as nice about it in the future. Seriously, aren't you bronies supposed to be mature fans and tolerant and understanding or something? Should we change that slogan from "love and tolerate" to "tolerant... So long as you give us what we want"?

[Karba 63]

Its copyright material right?

The fan comics are not because of small changes people make to ponies in their art.

[LordDiscord 289]

Exactly, but when you make a big scene like this and scream how they are "infringing our creativity" and demand people petition and boycott Hasbro for using their rights, they definitely are not going to be as nice about it in the future. Seriously, aren't you bronies supposed to be mature fans and tolerant and understanding or something? Should we change that slogan from "love and tolerate" to "tolerant... So long as you give us what we want"?

That's a little ''extreme'' don't you think, with that said even though I can understand why Hasbro did what they did, does not mean that I don't understand why some may feel ''disgruntled'' over this decision. I was a big fan of Jan myself and loved his ''Don't Mine at Night'' video that I will miss. Though I don't understand why they couldn't have atleast let him keep up his older videos and only halt him from making more. I mean didn't he get permission to make ''Lets go meet the Bronies'' video considering John D Lance and Tara Strong were two VAs that appeared in that animation.

[Rift enchanted 380]

We can except the weekly new episode on YouTube to stop soon.

 

Then we'll have to buy the hub network.

[LED Dasher 228]

Perhaps someday the copyright laws will be reformed so that innovation can be encouraged. Maybe someday in the future works similar to Fighting is Magic and Button Mash will be apporved for other shows. One thing is for sure, My Little Pony has changed the entertainment industry and has shown how creative a fanbase can be. Other companies may realize this and will encourage their fans to put their talent to good use.

[Guest]

That's a little ''extreme'' don't you think, with that said even though I can understand why Hasbro did what they did, does not mean that I don't understand why some may feel ''disgruntled'' over this decision. I was a big fan of Jan myself and loved his ''Don't Mine at Night'' video that I will miss. Though I don't understand why they couldn't have atleast let him keep up his older videos and only halt him from making more. I mean didn't he get permission to make ''Lets go meet the Bronies'' video considering John D Lance and Tara Strong were two VAs that appeared in that animation.

There are plenty of reasons, but I will just say that John and Tara didn't make BronyDoc for the reasons they advertised to say the least...

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

There are plenty of reasons, but I will just say that John and Tara didn't make BronyDoc for the reasons they advertised to say the least...

Other than "make a sympathetic fluff piece about Bronies", what reasons do you think they had?

[Glitterheart 64]

I remember reading an AMA thing not too long ago with a copyright lawyer being asked questions related to fandom and fanworks.  In regards to the whole "They need to shut stuff down to protect their IP or it'll lapse into public domain" thing, the bottom line was basically: 99% of the time they don't, but will attack large fan projects anyway because they don't like seeing people do things with the IP that they don't have complete control over.

 

And even if the C&D's are baseless, it's not like most fans can put up the money to hire an army of lawyers to prove it in court.

[PrincessDashieDoom 12]

I don't think they will go as far as to shut down Internet forums like equestriadaily and this website. I am scared that they will target more fan animations though. Also, there is a petition to bring back Button Mash. I am hoping it discourages Hasbro from shutting down anything else.

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/hasbro-bring-back-button-mash

Time to download them all before Hasbro removes them all like Button.

[Guest]

Other than "make a sympathetic fluff piece about Bronies", what reasons do you think they had?

Money, moolah, the green stuff, pictures of dead presidents, cash, cheddar and the all mighty dollar.

 

Consider the circumstances and you'll start to notice something:

 

1. The documentary got a budget 5 times larger than they anticipated and they somehow insist that they lost money on it. How? These people have been in show business their whole lives and they can't handle a budget 5 times larger than what they needed without spending out of pocket? I find that hard to believe. They insist the extra money was used for extending the film, but there is little evidence of that, and a spending report was never released.

 

2. It's a no-investment business model. Get people to invest in the product solely through "donations" and you are not required to pay them back. They were given free money with no strings attached, meaning when they turned around and sold the DVDs and Blurays (at quite a high price I might add) it was pure profit. That nonsense about how they paid for it out of pocket is simply that: nonsense. Even if they did pay for even a fraction out of pocket, how are we supposed to feel sympathetic? They can afford to pay for the entire thing themselves without donations. They were quick to turn to this in a guilt fashion.

 

3. If they made the documentary "for bronies" and to teach people about bronies there are a couple of problems with that: A. Why not release it on the internet for free then? Why charge for it? Their argument is to justify costs, but I am not buying it. They were given 5 times what they asked for, no doubt in my mind that the proceeds were profit. B. Charging money for it makes no sense. If it's meant to teach people about bronies, who that is a non-brony is going to pay to watch a movie about bronies? And don't tell me they overlooked this fact, because they are in Hollywood. They are in show business themselves, they should know this. C. Why does it only cover the "good" parts of the fandom through extreme cherry picking? It's not really even a documentary, it's not informing, it's inflating ego. It does not tell both sides of the story.

 

I'll tell you why: because Tara and John saw a way to make a quick few bucks off of a bunch of bronies who would be foolish enough to buy this film. Then when people torrented the movie or put it on Youtube (which is what they should have done themselves if they truly wanted people to see it, given the circumstances) they resorted to guilting and complaining. They were upset because their scam didn't work. Essentially the movie is a scam, any person who checks the facts over can tell that John and Tara tried to make a quick profit, it didn't work, so now they are annoyed. The only people who were going to buy the documentary are bronies and the people bronies forced to sit through it. If a regular person wanted to learn about bronies there is a vast internet available.

 

4. The whole documentary was cherry picked. Why? To avoid hurting of sales. Take note of the fact that Sethisto appeared only for 15 seconds? Why though? Is he not important enough? He runs the biggest brony news site in the fandom? I'll tell you why: because Sethisto makes the fandom look bad on occasion. A lot of bronies have negative opinions on him, and thus they purposely did not put more than 15 seconds of focus on him to get out of having to do anything that the fandom would complain about. They also excluded clopping (short of a minor joke) and the popular fan fictions such as "My Little Dashie". Why? Because that stuff all makes the fandom look bad. They made the entire documentary to make bronies feel good about it so they would be convinced to buy it and convince others to buy it. Despite the fact that it is not accurate in the slightest.

 

That tells me one thing: They didn't make this documentary to inform anyone of the truth. Which means there is only one other reason they could have made it for: Money.

 

I am half expecting people to defend the actions of John and Tara here, because bronies don't seem to like the idea that they were fooled or that their "idols" are actually business people out to find a way to profit off of the fandom. However you can't change the facts. The evidence points more to the idea that the documentary was for profit than anything else.

 

 

 

That's a little ''extreme'' don't you think, with that said even though I can understand why Hasbro did what they did, does not mean that I don't understand why some may feel ''disgruntled'' over this decision.

 

I do understand why they feel disgruntled, but their reaction is always like this. To behave in a manner that shows their motto is meaningless.

 

 

 

Though I don't understand why they couldn't have atleast let him keep up his older videos and only halt him from making more. I mean didn't he get permission to make ''Lets go meet the Bronies'' video considering John D Lance and Tara Strong were two VAs that appeared in that animation.

 

What sense would it make to allow him to keep content infringing their copyright but just say "yeah just don't make anymore"? Also I am sure when he made Let's Go Meet the Bronies there was an agreement. Chances are, Jan violated the agreement, thus the agreement became null. Showbiz is like that, man. You are not magically protected by a contract, you still have to follow the rules.

 

 

 

We can except the weekly new episode on YouTube to stop soon. Then we'll have to buy the hub network.

 

 

You mean... We'll have to pay for MLP instead of stealing it! Say it isn't so! Why would we have to live in a world where we have to support the original creators through watching the advertisements in between episodes and such!? I don't want to live in this world anymore.

 

In all seriousness, you are complaining that Hasbro is not letting you get something they spent thousands on for free. Fan animations are a different argument, but blatantly uploaded entire episodes totally 100% goes against copyright, and I don't even know how anyone could try and dispute that. That's re-distribution.

 

 

 

Perhaps someday the copyright laws will be reformed so that innovation can be encouraged. Maybe someday in the future works similar to Fighting is Magic and Button Mash will be apporved for other shows.

 

The laws don't need to be changed. They are there to protect people's IPs. If a company decides to be lenient, that's their choice. Valve does it, but not everyone is Valve and not everyone should be Valve.

 

 

 

One thing is for sure, My Little Pony has changed the entertainment industry and has shown how creative a fanbase can be. Other companies may realize this and will encourage their fans to put their talent to good use.

 

There are fanbases a lot more creative than this one, and have existed long before this one. Trust me, bronies are not really anything special. Everything that is bronies has happened before. Adults liking a cartoon not meant for them has happened before, and the amount of content they pump out has been done before as well. 

[LordDiscord 289]

Money, moolah, the green stuff, pictures of dead presidents, cash, cheddar and the all mighty dollar.

 

Consider the circumstances and you'll start to notice something:

 

1. The documentary got a budget 5 times larger than they anticipated and they somehow insist that they lost money on it. How? These people have been in show business their whole lives and they can't handle a budget 5 times larger than what they needed without spending out of pocket? I find that hard to believe. They insist the extra money was used for extending the film, but there is little evidence of that, and a spending report was never released.

 

2. It's a no-investment business model. Get people to invest in the product solely through "donations" and you are not required to pay them back. They were given free money with no strings attached, meaning when they turned around and sold the DVDs and Blurays (at quite a high price I might add) it was pure profit. That nonsense about how they paid for it out of pocket is simply that: nonsense. Even if they did pay for even a fraction out of pocket, how are we supposed to feel sympathetic? They can afford to pay for the entire thing themselves without donations. They were quick to turn to this in a guilt fashion.

 

3. If they made the documentary "for bronies" and to teach people about bronies there are a couple of problems with that: A. Why not release it on the internet for free then? Why charge for it? Their argument is to justify costs, but I am not buying it. They were given 5 times what they asked for, no doubt in my mind that the proceeds were profit. B. Charging money for it makes no sense. If it's meant to teach people about bronies, who that is a non-brony is going to pay to watch a movie about bronies? And don't tell me they overlooked this fact, because they are in Hollywood. They are in show business themselves, they should know this. C. Why does it only cover the "good" parts of the fandom through extreme cherry picking? It's not really even a documentary, it's not informing, it's inflating ego. It does not tell both sides of the story.

 

I'll tell you why: because Tara and John saw a way to make a quick few bucks off of a bunch of bronies who would be foolish enough to buy this film. Then when people torrented the movie or put it on Youtube (which is what they should have done themselves if they truly wanted people to see it, given the circumstances) they resorted to guilting and complaining. They were upset because their scam didn't work. Essentially the movie is a scam, any person who checks the facts over can tell that John and Tara tried to make a quick profit, it didn't work, so now they are annoyed. The only people who were going to buy the documentary are bronies and the people bronies forced to sit through it. If a regular person wanted to learn about bronies there is a vast internet available.

 

4. The whole documentary was cherry picked. Why? To avoid hurting of sales. Take note of the fact that Sethisto appeared only for 15 seconds? Why though? Is he not important enough? He runs the biggest brony news site in the fandom? I'll tell you why: because Sethisto makes the fandom look bad on occasion. A lot of bronies have negative opinions on him, and thus they purposely did not put more than 15 seconds of focus on him to get out of having to do anything that the fandom would complain about. They also excluded clopping (short of a minor joke) and the popular fan fictions such as "My Little Dashie". Why? Because that stuff all makes the fandom look bad. They made the entire documentary to make bronies feel good about it so they would be convinced to buy it and convince others to buy it. Despite the fact that it is not accurate in the slightest.

 

That tells me one thing: They didn't make this documentary to inform anyone of the truth. Which means there is only one other reason they could have made it for: Money.

 

I am half expecting people to defend the actions of John and Tara here, because bronies don't seem to like the idea that they were fooled or that their "idols" are actually business people out to find a way to profit off of the fandom. However you can't change the facts. The evidence points more to the idea that the documentary was for profit than anything else.

 

 

 

 

I do understand why they feel disgruntled, but their reaction is always like this. To behave in a manner that shows their motto is meaningless.

 

 

 

 

What sense would it make to allow him to keep content infringing their copyright but just say "yeah just don't make anymore"? Also I am sure when he made Let's Go Meet the Bronies there was an agreement. Chances are, Jan violated the agreement, thus the agreement became null. Showbiz is like that, man. You are not magically protected by a contract, you still have to follow the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

You mean... We'll have to pay for MLP instead of stealing it! Say it isn't so! Why would we have to live in a world where we have to support the original creators through watching the advertisements in between episodes and such!? I don't want to live in this world anymore.

 

In all seriousness, you are complaining that Hasbro is not letting you get something they spent thousands on for free. Fan animations are a different argument, but blatantly uploaded entire episodes totally 100% goes against copyright, and I don't even know how anyone could try and dispute that. That's re-distribution.

 

 

 

 

The laws don't need to be changed. They are there to protect people's IPs. If a company decides to be lenient, that's their choice. Valve does it, but not everyone is Valve and not everyone should be Valve.

 

 

 

 

There are fanbases a lot more creative than this one, and have existed long before this one. Trust me, bronies are not really anything special. Everything that is bronies has happened before. Adults liking a cartoon not meant for them has happened before, and the amount of content they pump out has been done before as well. 

Did the motto ever even have meaning to begin with? I thought it was the trolls the created it to back in the early days of the fandom. Also why was I quoted twice, and how did my comment explode into a discussion of the ''Brony Documentory''?

[GrimCW 658]

Did the motto ever even have meaning to begin with? I thought it was the trolls the created it to back in the early days of the fandom.

 

It has no meaning, and he's only picking at it, like with most trolls who toy with it, to try and get under peoples skins.

It literally has no connection to the show, never has, and probably never will.  Not worth the time even mentioning it, let alone arguing with it.

Edited March 25, 2014 by GrimCW

[LED Dasher 228]

Money, moolah, the green stuff, pictures of dead presidents, cash, cheddar and the all mighty dollar.

 

Consider the circumstances and you'll start to notice something:

 

1. The documentary got a budget 5 times larger than they anticipated and they somehow insist that they lost money on it. How? These people have been in show business their whole lives and they can't handle a budget 5 times larger than what they needed without spending out of pocket? I find that hard to believe. They insist the extra money was used for extending the film, but there is little evidence of that, and a spending report was never released.

 

2. It's a no-investment business model. Get people to invest in the product solely through "donations" and you are not required to pay them back. They were given free money with no strings attached, meaning when they turned around and sold the DVDs and Blurays (at quite a high price I might add) it was pure profit. That nonsense about how they paid for it out of pocket is simply that: nonsense. Even if they did pay for even a fraction out of pocket, how are we supposed to feel sympathetic? They can afford to pay for the entire thing themselves without donations. They were quick to turn to this in a guilt fashion.

 

3. If they made the documentary "for bronies" and to teach people about bronies there are a couple of problems with that: A. Why not release it on the internet for free then? Why charge for it? Their argument is to justify costs, but I am not buying it. They were given 5 times what they asked for, no doubt in my mind that the proceeds were profit. B. Charging money for it makes no sense. If it's meant to teach people about bronies, who that is a non-brony is going to pay to watch a movie about bronies? And don't tell me they overlooked this fact, because they are in Hollywood. They are in show business themselves, they should know this. C. Why does it only cover the "good" parts of the fandom through extreme cherry picking? It's not really even a documentary, it's not informing, it's inflating ego. It does not tell both sides of the story.

 

I'll tell you why: because Tara and John saw a way to make a quick few bucks off of a bunch of bronies who would be foolish enough to buy this film. Then when people torrented the movie or put it on Youtube (which is what they should have done themselves if they truly wanted people to see it, given the circumstances) they resorted to guilting and complaining. They were upset because their scam didn't work. Essentially the movie is a scam, any person who checks the facts over can tell that John and Tara tried to make a quick profit, it didn't work, so now they are annoyed. The only people who were going to buy the documentary are bronies and the people bronies forced to sit through it. If a regular person wanted to learn about bronies there is a vast internet available.

 

4. The whole documentary was cherry picked. Why? To avoid hurting of sales. Take note of the fact that Sethisto appeared only for 15 seconds? Why though? Is he not important enough? He runs the biggest brony news site in the fandom? I'll tell you why: because Sethisto makes the fandom look bad on occasion. A lot of bronies have negative opinions on him, and thus they purposely did not put more than 15 seconds of focus on him to get out of having to do anything that the fandom would complain about. They also excluded clopping (short of a minor joke) and the popular fan fictions such as "My Little Dashie". Why? Because that stuff all makes the fandom look bad. They made the entire documentary to make bronies feel good about it so they would be convinced to buy it and convince others to buy it. Despite the fact that it is not accurate in the slightest.

 

That tells me one thing: They didn't make this documentary to inform anyone of the truth. Which means there is only one other reason they could have made it for: Money.

 

I am half expecting people to defend the actions of John and Tara here, because bronies don't seem to like the idea that they were fooled or that their "idols" are actually business people out to find a way to profit off of the fandom. However you can't change the facts. The evidence points more to the idea that the documentary was for profit than anything else.

 

 

 

 

I do understand why they feel disgruntled, but their reaction is always like this. To behave in a manner that shows their motto is meaningless.

 

 

 

 

What sense would it make to allow him to keep content infringing their copyright but just say "yeah just don't make anymore"? Also I am sure when he made Let's Go Meet the Bronies there was an agreement. Chances are, Jan violated the agreement, thus the agreement became null. Showbiz is like that, man. You are not magically protected by a contract, you still have to follow the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

You mean... We'll have to pay for MLP instead of stealing it! Say it isn't so! Why would we have to live in a world where we have to support the original creators through watching the advertisements in between episodes and such!? I don't want to live in this world anymore.

 

In all seriousness, you are complaining that Hasbro is not letting you get something they spent thousands on for free. Fan animations are a different argument, but blatantly uploaded entire episodes totally 100% goes against copyright, and I don't even know how anyone could try and dispute that. That's re-distribution.

 

 

 

 

The laws don't need to be changed. They are there to protect people's IPs. If a company decides to be lenient, that's their choice. Valve does it, but not everyone is Valve and not everyone should be Valve.

 

 

 

 

There are fanbases a lot more creative than this one, and have existed long before this one. Trust me, bronies are not really anything special. Everything that is bronies has happened before. Adults liking a cartoon not meant for them has happened before, and the amount of content they pump out has been done before as well. 

 

Do you realize that people in many countries illegally download movies and games because that's the only way they can get it? How do you think MLP became popular all over the world? How would people in other countries have access to the show?

 

Tell me more about how creative fanbases existed before MLP. During those days, the Internet was not as big as it is today. With all the advancements in technology and social media, you see things like Fighting is Magic and Button Mash. You will definitely see these types of things in the future for other shows, whether it is legal or illegal. How much can copyright laws do these days? It's not right to steal work from other people, but the situation has changed compared to how it was ten years ago.

[Guest]

 

 

Do you realize that people in many countries illegally download movies and games because that's the only way they can get it? How do you think MLP became popular all over the world? How would people in other countries have access to the show?

 

How is that relevant?

 

 

 

Tell me more about how creative fanbases existed before MLP. During those days, the Internet was not as big as it is today.

 

So without the internet, conventions and art never happen? XD

 

 

 

How much can copyright laws do these days? It's not right to steal work from other people, but the situation has changed compared to how it was ten years ago.

 

How has it changed? 

[Adorkable 2,737]

I expect them to go further to fanarts and music.

 

I don't really think so. ^^"

 

I mean, fanart has been made since the series came out, and I don't think it's even been touched yet.

 

As far as music goes, same thing.

 

They're not going to go "further" than needed to protect their rights for MLP.

 

They're not after the fans.

[KarentheUnicorn 218]

The collectors are the new biggest income makers, where kids once were. Hasbro and some other companies need to figure this one out.

 

Hum, I don't know if i'd say it is new. Hasbro was way better to those who collected MLP in the 80's during G1 than they are now.

 

They even encouraged collecting, they even geared they're marking of MLP to 'collecting' ponies.

 

One of the big things back in the 80's was they had mail order ponies. These ponies were never sold in stores. Back in the 80's, when you bought ponies in the store you'd save the points off the box. Each year hasbro would create new special mail order ponies that you could only order by mail from them and only get by supplying the correct number of horseshoe points. They even called one set "Collector Ponies". So you had to buy ponies to get ponies. Lets not even get into the whole variety of ponies you could actually get. None of this same 6 ponies over and over every year. You very rarely got the same ponies again the next year.

 

Secondly, During G1 Hasbro even had a contest for those who bought My Little Pony, the contest basically went like this: Take a picture of yourself with all your My Little Pony, whoever has the most ponies wins.

 

I entered but did not win, I didn't have quite as many as first, second and third place. Sometimes I wonder if I might have been a little older than who Hasbro was looking for since I would have been around 16 years old. I'm not exactly sure how many I had but I'm pretty sure it was close to 300 at the time.

 

I have a magazine clipping of the girl who actually won the contest that I saved from back then.

 

 

The lady who runs the My Little Pony collectors Fair actually finished third. I didn't know it till She and I actually discussed it at the Fair.

 

 

I have no idea what hasbro lost between G1 and G4, but it was most surely more about collecting back in the 80's, even for us 'little kids'.

 

Now hasbro seems to only produce the exact same ponies over and over, there isn't very much variety in the line. But anyway, from personal experience, it was way better to be into the toy line in the 80's than it is now. At least as far as Hasbro products go in the G4 line it seems to be way more for little kids now than it was in the 80's.

[Barbaloot 198]

 

 

1. The documentary got a budget 5 times larger than they anticipated and they somehow insist that they lost money on it. How? These people have been in show business their whole lives and they can't handle a budget 5 times larger than what they needed without spending out of pocket? I find that hard to believe. They insist the extra money was used for extending the film, but there is little evidence of that, and a spending report was never released.

Didn't legendary game developer Tim Schafer just recently have this problem himself with his game Broken Age? This shit happens all the time, it's not people scamming the system, it's people laying out ground work for what they think they can get, and then suddenly realizing they have way fucking more than that to work with. 

[Guest]

Didn't legendary game developer Tim Schafer just recently have this problem himself with his game Broken Age? This shit happens all the time, it's not people scamming the system, it's people laying out ground work for what they think they can get, and then suddenly realizing they have way fucking more than that to work with. 

So they expect other people to eat the damage? That's kind of a scam. It's a no investment business model where you have no investment, so if the business fails, there is no risk for you. There's a reason why these are frowned upon because they create unfair competition, and create a 100% profit margin.

[Barbaloot 198]

So they expect other people to eat the damage? That's kind of a scam. It's a no investment business model where you have no investment, so if the business fails, there is no risk for you. There's a reason why these are frowned upon because they create unfair competition, and create a 100% profit margin.

If the buisness fails the investors can file a lawsuit. Which has happened. And been successful. It's hardly "hazard free"

[Guest]

If the buisness fails the investors can file a lawsuit. Which has happened. And been successful. It's hardly "hazard free"

Not if your "investors" are "donators" as they are when you use Kickstarter. Do you see the loophole? I am sure Tara and John did. xP

[Barbaloot 198]

Not if your "investors" are "donators" as they are when you use Kickstarter. Do you see the loophole? I am sure Tara and John did. xP

Except people HAVE sued over unfounded kickstarters. It's still not even close to hazard free.