How far is Hasbro C&D willing to go?

[Sigma 768]

I think there's a good chance they simply haven't noticed it yet, or are waiting to see if it fails on it's own.  They only seem to go after projects that have become really "big" and influential, and that game seems to be a really tiny part of the fandom so far.

 

But if it keeps going, it's gonna get their attention eventually...

 

Well, the developers of the game have already gotten Hasbro's attention by contacting Lauren Faust and telling her that, if she wanted to, she could be an alicorn in the game; and surely anyone with foresight can see that the game has a huge amount of potential to become very popular.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Asterisk Propernoun

[Glitterheart 64]

Well, the developers of the game have already gotten Hasbro's attention by contacting Lauren Faust and telling her that, if she wanted to, she could be an alicorn in the game; and surely anyone with foresight can see that the game has a huge amount of potential to become very popular.

Lauren Faust isn't working with Hasbro anymore.  And Hasbro doesn't exactly seem to be paying super-close attention to the fandom these days.

[Adorkable 2,737]

For instance, look at this game, which has gone a long time without getting any threats from Hasbro.

 

Hopefully they won't wait until it's near-release to fire the C&D missiles. ^^"

 

The game is pretty popular, you know.

[Guest]

If you could, could you also link where they said that all proceeds would go to that? I'm trying to find that as well, but it's too vague to make Google work it's magic.

Right on the Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/257527888/bronycon-the-documentary

 

"What will the funds be used for? The Answer is quality."

 

They also mention that on average documentaries around this length and such have a budget of around 400k. They got 348k. That's close enough to say that they have a fairly full budget to where the expense out of pocket was minimal. They also stress that they are broadcast professionals, which means that a 348k budget should have been very doable to them. They also state they would have been able to do it on 60k as well. This means they either A. got careless or B. are trying to make a profit.

 

The issue here is that no mention of selling the documentary itself was made on the initial Kickstarter. Most figured that the sale of DVDs would be for those who wanted a hard copy (which makes sense because you  can't just give out free DVDs forever), but to charge for the digital version? That kind of defeats a "by bronies, for bronies" mentality. I believe many of the review on Netflix can sum up why people don't like the documentary who are outside of the fandom.

 

1. The documentary does not explore the side of the fandom which has given its bad reputation that it has today. Anyone who has done an internet search on bronies can see that it's misleading.

2. The brony culture isn't really worthy of a documentary. There are other communities that are larger and have been around longer that would be far more deserving. Not to mention, this documentary feels like its only purpose was to pander.

3. From an outside perspective, it forces non-bronies to watch a crap ton of My Little Pony. Tons of clips, even an entire animated sequence. If you're trying to target a general audience that's probably not a good idea.

 

Either way, we are getting insanely off topic. We should take this to another thread.

 

 

 

If Hasbro wanted to destroy the game, they would have done it by now. If anything, they'll probably threaten the makers when it's finished, take it for themselves, and slap a monthly price on it. Either way, the game survives.

 

Just like all the other games they shut down right?

 

In all seriousness, if Hasbro took the idea they either would not make the game at all, or make a completely different game. Business law just doesn't work that way. You can't C&D and then steal the work for yourself.

 

 

 

I think there's a good chance they simply haven't noticed it yet, or are waiting to see if it fails on it's own.  They only seem to go after projects that have become really "big" and influential, and that game seems to be a really tiny part of the fandom so far.

 

Bingo. As a company it's more advantageous to hope that these projects fall apart on their own, because every time they put out a C&D fans get mad. This is why they don't send out C&Ds for everything.

 

 

 

Well, the developers of the game have already gotten Hasbro's attention by contacting Lauren Faust and telling her that, if she wanted to, she could be an alicorn in the game; and surely anyone with foresight can see that the game has a huge amount of potential to become very popular.

 

That would be insanely stupid on her part. Stealing IP and helping steal IP from her former employers? That would more or less be the end of her career. If Hasbro put it out that Lauren Faust stole their IP and helped another group try and steal it, she would be black listed in the animator business for a loooooooong time. It would be career suicide. She is kind of unprofessional, but she's not that unprofessional to where she'd mess up her entire career for good. 

[Sigma 768]

Just like all the other games they shut down right?

 

In all seriousness, if Hasbro took the idea they either would not make the game at all, or make a completely different game. Business law just doesn't work that way. You can't C&D and then steal the work for yourself.

 

 

 

 

Bingo. As a company it's more advantageous to hope that these projects fall apart on their own, because every time they put out a C&D fans get mad. This is why they don't send out C&Ds for everything.

 

 

 

 

That would be insanely stupid on her part. Stealing IP and helping steal IP from her former employers? That would more or less be the end of her career. If Hasbro put it out that Lauren Faust stole their IP and helped another group try and steal it, she would be black listed in the animator business for a loooooooong time. It would be career suicide. She is kind of unprofessional, but she's not that unprofessional to where she'd mess up her entire career for good. 

 

I'd imagine it would be a kind of under-the-table thing. Such as "Hey, if you give the game to us, then we won't C&D it." Besides, the developers of the game are taking subtle measures to avoid C&D. Such as calling Canterlot 'Cantermore' and so on.

 

As for saying Lauren Faust is stealing intellectual property, isn't her alicorn original character not owned by Hasbro?

Edited March 27, 2014 by Asterisk Propernoun

[Freewave 1,145]

It might have to do with money. I know Fighting is Magic had funds from outside them, which was a no-no, even if it was donations. Not sure if Jan got any money from anyone or Youtube (if he was a partner, he gets view money which might of nailed him there). Hasbro isn't known for going on a C&D spree, unless there's money involved.

They were set up commercial to make ad revenue through youtube. That's why if you go to their lone remaining video on their channel it has an ad before the video starts.

 

Hasbro is over reacting. I mean, why delete something that is fanmade that the fans love? Non-bronies who haven't watched the show and stumbled upon a pony music video might or might not become a brony! I've seen lots of people in the Welcoming section with links to music videos that they watched which made them watch the show. Hasbro should be thankful that these videos add more fans to the MLP:FiM fanbase!

Because it's a copyright violation and a direct competitor for something that isn't liscenced or legal. Hasbro ignore 99.99% of the fan content. Why are they wrong for taking down those that are clearly "asking for it" when they do. Again it's not about the fans, it's about what that part of the fandom was doing to get the c&d. Making videos that look like Hasbro produced them and using official MLP characters was always playing it too close. Even Fighting is Magic's characters were identical in style and in name.   

 

With the recent C&Ds to fanon projects (Button Mash/Molestia/Double Rainboom.)  I'd like to know what does the future hold for BronyCON and and other small conventions? What about the fanon songs that are being written and produced? Technically speaking the songs are the property of the song writer but when you read the letter to JAN Animations it says

 

 

Now would that mean all songs written and produced by us bronies have to have all references to MLP removed? Technically speaking lets say 'Discord' by Living Tombstone or SimGretina's remixes. The name and song are intellectual property of Hasbro..as for conventions even the words 'Brony' are fine but given the unauthorized Hasbro merchandise being sold (Plushes/Art/Toys.etc) would that mean they'll need to shut down the cons too? This all very frightening realities I don't want to contemplate but very real if Hasbro is trying to shut down anything in likeliness to their product. But as previously said in the other thread remixes don't seem to really do much harm.

 

People seem to forget that Hasbro; a) rarely does a C&D, b )does them for very popular, continuing, and widely known projects, c) does them for characters or projects that appear to be identical to their flash animation style, d) does them for things that compete against them.

 

Do we have to be incredibly worried about Hasbro taking on the larger brony fandom? No. Should bronies be aware they need to be careful what they sell when they don't own the trademarks to many of the products they are pushing? Yes. Copyright is a real thing and money changes a fan creation into a thriving business, which might not have legal legs. We can't keep blaming Hasbro when part of the problem is fan "entitlement" and fans going beyond fair use, parody, or non commercial works.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Freewave

[Barbaloot 198]

@Mist so basically, they never once said they were non-profit, never actually said everything would go into paying back the production cost (that I could find) and never specifically said they weren't going to sell the movie in any medium, and yet you think they're scamming?

 

Honestly at this point, I think you're blowing smoke. And the simple fact that you didn't like the movie (which I didn't either, really) doesn't automatically mean they didn't attain to quality standard. As said by them: "This program will be shot with broadcast quality equipment and crewed by professional camera operators, sound mixers and editors who do this for a living." That's their definition of quality, and from my viewpoint that's exactly what they did.

 

I think you're just biased...

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

@

 

I kind of get the impression with Kickstarter, is that the whole purpose is to raise initial capital and it's assumed that the people making the product are going to try and make a profit after that.

 

It seems like you're mad that they were using Kickstarter for exactly what it was intended for. 

[Freewave 1,145]

@

 

I kind of get the impression with Kickstarter, is that the whole purpose is to raise initial capital and it's assumed that the people making the product are going to try and make a profit after that.

 

It seems like you're mad that they were using Kickstarter for exactly what it was intended for. 

 

Maybe he's pointing out its disingenuous to ask for the community to pay for all the initial costs, then pander with a lukewarm documentary that wasn't that good, and then profit off the sales (after complaining about the initial bootlegging that was going to happen anyway).  Sometimes it's best to be a bit more careful with how we want to spend our money and who it ends up going to. Some people feel we got burned by putting our money in a bad investment and that weariness has lead to other better brony fund raisers failing (Musiquestria and Rainbow & Rooted for example).

 

What the brony doc has to do with Hasbro C&D i do not know....

Edited March 27, 2014 by Freewave

[Guest]

 

 

I'd imagine it would be a kind of under-the-table thing. Such as "Hey, if you give the game to us, then we won't C&D it." Besides, the developers of the game are taking subtle measures to avoid C&D. Such as calling Canterlot 'Cantermore' and so on.

 

Yeeeeeah, that's not going to happen.

 

 

 

As for saying Lauren Faust is stealing intellectual property, isn't her alicorn original character not owned by Hasbro?

 

I would imagine they let her have it out of gratitude for creating the show. Also she seldom uses it for anything.

 

 

 

so basically, they never once said they were non-profit, never actually said everything would go into paying back the production cost (that I could find) and never specifically said they weren't going to sell the movie in any medium, and yet you think they're scamming?

 

False. John De Lancie was criticized for selling the film for a profit when it first appeared in torrent sites and he made a large point about how they needed the money to cover the cost of the film. Not to mention just because you purposely avoid certain words does not mean you are not misleading people. In his letter he stated that they needed the money to cover the production of the film when he was accused of trying to make a profit. He denied any attempts to make a profit in his letter (I wish I could find it again, but it has been long lost, if anyone can locate that, I'd be grateful)

 

You may also read his kickstarter update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/257527888/bronycon-the-documentary/posts/400952

 

Essentially he is throwing a fit that it was torrented. He did this from the very start. He showed little to no appreciation about the fact that his film made it to so many people, only that it didn't make money. He released several tweets similar to this. All never mentioning that there was profit involved, but come on people: these guys are Hollywood professionals, do you honestly think there was no intention of profits?

 

 

 

Honestly at this point, I think you're blowing smoke. And the simple fact that you didn't like the movie (which I didn't either, really) doesn't automatically mean they didn't attain to quality standard. As said by them: "This program will be shot with broadcast quality equipment and crewed by professional camera operators, sound mixers and editors who do this for a living." That's their definition of quality, and from my viewpoint that's exactly what they did.

 

That doesn't make quality. Also I am not upset because I did not like the film. What I did not like was the dishonesty. It was smoke and mirrors, this whole facade that it was done to help the brony community, when in reality all the evidence points in the opposite direction. They mislead the brony community in hopes to make a profit, and I don't think you can deny that there is reasonable evidence to support such. Calling me biased does not instantly invalidate these points and I would appreciate it if you kept your argument respectful.

 

 

 

I kind of get the impression with Kickstarter, is that the whole purpose is to raise initial capital and it's assumed that the people making the product are going to try and make a profit after that.

 

How do you figure? They claimed they planned on making it on 60k and that most documentaries of their kind cost around 400k and said they'd pay the rest out of pocket. Then suddenly when people paid more they feel more annoyed about paying out of pocket? It never really gave the impression that this was a for-profit venture.

 

 

 

It seems like you're mad that they were using Kickstarter for exactly what it was intended for. 

 

Kickstarter inherently has little "intentions" because people can use it for so many different things. No where on the Kickstarter did it state they would be selling the film during the donation period. Only that physical disks would be rewarded, but it never stated that even the digital version would be sold for a profit. It was purposely elusive.

 

 

 

What the brony doc has to do with Hasbro C&D i do not know....

 

Which is why I keep saying to make a new topic. :I 

[ColtofPersonality 855]

I'd still like to know where this leaves the conventions..BronyCON is the grand galloping gala of cons..basically the big ticket thing that i'd imagine everybody would go to if they could afford the travel..given the artist alley is pretty much a Hasbro Lawyers gold mine do you think they'd pull the plug on it?

[Freewave 1,145]

I'd still like to know where this leaves the conventions..BronyCON is the grand galloping gala of cons..basically the big ticket thing that i'd imagine everybody would go to if they could afford the travel..given the artist alley is pretty much a Hasbro Lawyers gold mine do you think they'd pull the plug on it?

 

Why are people equating that Hasbro is going to shut down brony conventions? Have they EVER done this over the last 3 years? Bronies need to calm the buck down and start using the heads and stop flying off the handle with their emotions regarding Jan Animations. A lot of the time Hasbro and their creative staff are guests at these conventions and they've never done a dang thing. They've never gone after artists at these things because they are creating original artwork that does not directly resemble or compete with the show like Jan Animations and Fighting is Magic did. .

[ColtofPersonality 855]

@@Freewave  For starters dude stop making assumptions for other bronies. Your acting like its not within the realm of possibility when it very much is..I hate to be a doom sayer/Mr.Negative but look how long the Molestia blog lasted? It wasn't long til Hasbro pulled the switch on that.

[Freewave 1,145]

@@Freewave  For starters dude stop making assumptions for other bronies. Your acting like its not within the realm of possibility when it very much is..I hate to be a doom sayer/Mr.Negative but look how long the Molestia blog lasted? It wasn't long til Hasbro pulled the switch on that.

 

Well they did that because social activists waited 2 years to start going after John Joseco through the Down with Molestia movement. That was another case of the brony fandom being over vocal and getting outraged about content that was 2 years old at the time (John had already moved onto Luna Gamer as his theme way before the takedown). I was pretty furious about that but i was more upset about the social activists that that though APM was a pro-rape joke blog and who advocated fandom censorship.

 

I am a brony and yes I'm a bit tired of seeing fans over-react (Derpygate) against Hasbro and other fan content (DWM). Bronycon and conventions will go on as normal unless fans really want to push the boundaries of copyright and Hasbro needs to get involved again at those places. I'd encourage those who have tables at the conventions to be aware of copyright law before they go out and completely break those laws. If you're making money off Hasbro's trademarks and aren't licensed or paying some money to them then you are playing in a grey area to begin with. I wouldn't worry about conventions ceasing to be unless Hasbro goes a whole lot further. Wait and see.

[SBaby 660]

This is the million-dollar question.  And in all honesty, probably never beyond C&D orders and shutting down youtube videos.

 

The hope is that someone goes to court over it, so a Judge can make an official ruling on the issue.  This sounds scary, but if a Judge makes a ruling, the draconian and outdated copyright laws will become a lot more clear, and will be spelled out better than ever before. 

 

I don't know that this will ever happen though.  Neither Hasbro, nor any other big company wants it to get to a Judge, because if it does, the ruling will almost definitely limit what they can issue C&D orders for (I could see certain fan games and any reviews being two of the things that they wouldn't be able to shut down anymore).  This is why if there's even the slightest chance it'll go to court, companies always try to resolve it out of court.

Edited March 30, 2014 by SBaby

[LightningGearV3.01 52]

I said this somewhere else, and I will say it here.

 

They know better than anyone on this site that if they lose the bronies, they significantly cut down their profits and watchers by more than 60%. They need us or they lose money, and that's the language corporations like them understand. So that's why they took the intense and adventurous approach and outright stated on the pilot for season 4 that twilight won't become a Mary Sue. That's why they didn't get rid of derpy. That's why the show continues to try and appeal to both us, and the original targeted demographic.

 

Because they need us, and with that in mind, they take every, single, complaint into account, and try and find a middle ground.

 

However, they are still a corporation. Quite honestly, I see all of this as a huge chess game, or a love hate relationship. The reason why they aren't raining flaming apples on top of us (and they can, at any time) is because, despite them wanting absolutely nothing to do with us, they need our support to keep the show alive. So they need to play their pieces right. Take out the ones that are trying to overstep their boundaries so that there isn't someone else harvesting our wallets for MLP content or rising beyond fan art. Fan work and such won't be touched, as they are relatively obscure, and away from the prying eyes of the original demographic. But if something like jananimations comes up, and it's an intense of a hit enough to be seen by someone else BESIDES us, they have to take 'legal' action. Because we all know what happened when us bronies were put into the spotlight.

 

Do you see what I am getting at here? They may be angering us, but it is for our own good. If the brony fandom gets spotted by the original demographic in its fullest, hasbro will have no choice but to obliterate us from the face of the earth and leave no survivors.

 

They are trying to PROTECT us. Not destroy us. If they wanted to destroy us, they would have done so by now.

 

But there is one thing I still fear. I fear that this will share the same fate as youtube: once they have enough money from us to keep the show running for the amount of seasons that they want to, they will crush us like ants underneath their heels, seeing us as a means to an end and nothing more.