Do you hate the " They only want to make money excuse"?

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

 

The "psych mobsters"?

 

Hmm, didn't have you pegged as a shill for the Church of Scientology.

 

Yeah and I guess those tax dollars you and I pay are being used for a noble cause(sarcasm). I guess those trillions in profit from Big Pharma are going towards helping all human kind. 

[BayoUni2847 528]

I guess it all depends on what you're talking about. A lot of reasons why MLP did certain things was to help with the toy line.

 

Fast food joints like McDonalds do certain things to keep expenses low so they can make profit.

 

In my opinion the excuse works with certain things.

[Nine 707]

Yeah and I guess those tax dollars you and I pay are being used for a noble cause(sarcasm). I guess those trillions in profit from Big Pharma are going towards helping all human kind. 

What *made* you this way? Seriously, I'd love to hear the story.

 

Anyway, any generic libertarian will tell you that 1) they don't support most or all involuntary taxation, 2) that taxes don't go to a noble cause, 3) that private fortunes aren't a social problem, but that 4) fortunes made with the abuse of legal power are (pharmaceuticals and all other large lobbies are guilty of this).

 

The difference is I blame the abuse of law, and you blame .. money, and business. Money and business are good things and are not the problem.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Nine

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

What *made* you this way? Seriously, I'd love to hear the story.

 

Anyway, any generic libertarian will tell you that 1) they don't support most or all involuntary taxation, 2) that taxes don't go to a noble cause, 3) that private fortunes aren't a social problem, but that 4) fortunes made with the abuse of legal power are (pharmaceuticals and all other large lobbies are guilty of this).

 

The difference I blame the abuse of law, and you blame .. money, and business. Money and business are good things and are not the problem.

Money is a trojan horse. Money is printed and backed by nothing. It's all about divide and conquer, nothing else. Social problem are caused because of the illusion of money. We still label human beings as 1st,2nd and 3rd class people. That's wrong.

[Nine 707]

Money is a trojan horse. Money is printed and backed by nothing. It's all about divide and conquer, nothing else. Social problem are caused because of the illusion of money. We still label human beings as 1st,2nd and 3rd class people. That's wrong.

Again, you need to be specific. You seem to be condemning *fiat* currency, a criticism many on the right share. That isn't unreasonable. While the merits of say, the gold standard, are debated for its practical use, many people wish for a commodity-backed currency as a way to combat their actual fear of inflation; which in context equates to a complaint about how the Fed manages the money supply.

 

And if you said ANYTHING that sounded like what I just typed, I'd applaud you. But as always, you berate money itself, as a tool, which is very foolish because it's an important instrument in any and every advanced society. Have you given any thought to what a money-less world would look like, and do I even want to know what kind of nightmare utopia you're imagining?

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

Again, you need to be specific. You seem to be condemning *fiat* currency, a criticism many on the right share. That isn't unreasonable. While the merits of say, the gold standard, are debated for its practical use, many people wish for a commodity-backed currency as a way to combat their actual fear of inflation; which in context equates to a complaint about how the Fed manages the money supply.

 

And if you said ANYTHING that sounded like what I just typed, I'd applaud you. But as always, you berate money itself, as a tool, which is very foolish because it's an important instrument in any and every advanced society. Have you given any thought to what a money-less world would look like, and do I even want to know what kind of nightmare utopia you're imagining?

You're missing the point. I'm talking about the people that make and control money, they don't need money. If you owned everything on earth and charged people for it.. Would you pay yourself, to use your resources?

[Nine 707]

You're missing the point. I'm talking about the people that make and control money, they don't need money. If you owned everything on earth and charged people for it.. Would you pay yourself, to use your resources?

I rarely know what your point is supposed to be.

 

The people who make and control money do need money, and printing money doesn't give you an unlimited claim to everything. I don't deny that monetary policy has run into major problems in the past with fractional reserves and hyperinflation, and arguably you can single out small groups of people who share the bulk of the blame for those events.

 

Do you understand that the reason those problems haven't invalidated money as a tool is because the overwhelming majority of people see the value of its use, despite its mismanagement? It's not because a hegemonic elite somehow forced it on people; its because people adopted its use. And they *always* have. Long before paper money there were beads and cowry shells.

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

I rarely know what your point is supposed to be.

 

The people who make and control money do need money, and printing money doesn't give you an unlimited claim to everything. I don't deny that monetary policy has run into major problems in the past with fractional reserves and hyperinflation, and arguably you can single out small groups of people who share the bulk of the blame for those events.

 

Do you understand that the reason those problems haven't invalidated money as a tool is because the overwhelming majority of people see the value of its use, despite its mismanagement? It's not because a hegemonic elite somehow forced it on people; its because people adopted its use. And they *always* have. Long before paper money there were beads and cowry shells.

I'm sorry man, you need to wake up to the corruption. We can live in this world without money. We can simply take care of each other and work for survival. If you want money, you are actually legally able to print your own money and under lawful use, can use it as an official currency. It's actually legal and people don't even do it.

[Nine 707]

 

I'm sorry man, you need to wake up to the corruption. 

 

And .. what makes you think I don't know there's corruption? I know there's corruption. Getting rid of money certainly won't do anything about that.

 

We can live in this world without money. We can simply take care of each other and work for survival.

 

Mhmm, so like, agrarian communism? Yeah, no, that only works if you don't mind a 99% drop in everyone's quality of life. Personally that's more than I'm willing to pay to prop up a bunch of horribly misguided idealism.

 

you are actually legally able to print your own money and under lawful use, can use it as an official currency. It's actually legal and people don't even do it.

 

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

 

 

 

 

And .. what makes you think I don't know there's corruption? I know there's corruption. Getting rid of money certainly won't do anything about that.

 

 

 

Mhmm, so like, agrarian communism? Yeah, no, that only works if you don't mind a 99% drop in everyone's quality of life. Personally that's more than I'm willing to pay to prop up a bunch of horribly misguided idealism.

 

 

 

bitcoin.png

 

Bitcoins are the same as the IRS paper back. It's just going to be a computer thin air system with no backings.

[Nine 707]

Bitcoins are the same as the IRS paper back. It's just going to be a computer thin air system with no backings.

The point is it's a decentralized currency, which is more important to a lot of people than a commodity-backed currency.

 

Look, you think we should get rid of money anyway. Maybe .. you don't know what you're talking about?

[DATA EXPUNGED 324]

I dont understand the reasoning behind hating someone for wanting to make money. I don't know ONE person who would do their job without being payed.

[Graveyard Duck 150]

Woah woah... This topic was definitely written with the intention of grinding some axes. I'm not going to touch that with a ten-foot pole.

 

That said, this overall argument is pretty much exactly what pisses me off about the idea of "selling out". I don't know why but lots of people equate economic success with the loss of artistic integrity. People, in this case, you CAN have your cake and eat it too. Folks CAN financially support something that's made whole-heartedly without reducing it to a product of capitalism. If it's good why shouldn't it succeed?

[NeedsMoreGoth 163]

Dammit. I need to expand my knowledge of the English language and my attention span. Umm... Money is nice. It's kind of a display of power in society. There's nothing wrong with doing stuff just to make money but the results of making money with something would be better if making money wasn't the only reason why we are doing that. I won't go too far into this because I'm still a kid and it ROCKS! I never want to grow up!

[Blaze Bronson 343]

Woah woah... This topic was definitely written with the intention of grinding some axes. I'm not going to touch that with a ten-foot pole.

 

That said, this overall argument is pretty much exactly what pisses me off about the idea of "selling out". I don't know why but lots of people equate economic success with the loss of artistic integrity. People, in this case, you CAN have your cake and eat it too. Folks CAN financially support something that's made whole-heartedly without reducing it to a product of capitalism. If it's good why shouldn't it succeed?

 

It's definitely possible, but money and positive feedback often lead you to produce what others want, instead of what you actually want to.

[Graveyard Duck 150]

It's definitely possible, but money and positive feedback often lead you to produce what others want, instead of what you actually want to.

Completely agree there, but it's important to determine who the "others" are in this situation. It's perfectly fine to show love to your diehard fans, but it's a whole different story to try to fit the expectations of a corporation. That's what selling out actually is; turning yourself into a voice box for a faceless brand name. As long as your work is entirely your own, you're never a sell out.

[Lumen 106]

I don't use this "they only want to make more money" excuse often, but when I do, it's for a good reason:

 

 

That's a grand example of where I'd use the excuse. Making the same game every year with no significant improvements. EA is another one with the buggy as hell BF4 launch. Why couldn't they take the time to fix the bugs? Because they want money and they want it NOW!

[Treble Bolt 1,122]

Ooooooooo Boy! What a can of worms this thread is....I have quite a lot to say about this, but sadly, I am pressed for time, don't want to type what no one will read, and may go into some deep sociological/political/economical/moral/religious issues that this thread presents.  So to keep it short, yes..that excuse is deplorable, but sadly there is more truth to it than one might see upon face value. There are exceptions to everything, and this is no different. However, this so called "excuse" is the very reason why many things DO happen, and as long as there are people who fall for such things, people will always be making money.....

[Hamp 10]

 People bought the damn book, and if people obtained what they expected of it as a product, I see nothing unfair on it. If you want a book with scientific proofs and studies, don't buy the product that doesn't satisfy your needs. If you want to blame anyone for the high sales of it, blame the consumers.

 

 On a side note, what I actually hate is the word 'metaphysical'. Physics is the study of reality, so something metaphysical is something outside of reality? irreal? Non existent! If we discover that our world is subtly and misteriously affected by some underlying form of counciousness or whatever you want to say, it would be great and intriguing, it would open a brand new branch of Physics.

 Maybe the term is actually used to what is outside of the current knowledge of physics. Though, talking about, for example, an unified Relativity and String Theory theory doens't hear exactly metaphysical..!

[Quill Waver 1,408]

My whole opinion on this matter boils down to one fact:

 

They can make new toys from this, satisfying fans that wish to buy them. The money goes to them, satisfying them from their profit. It is a win/win scenario. It is hardly an excuse—in my opinion, it is not even an excuse—if you, the consumer, still choose to purchase their product. Even if they discontinue specific toys, it still allows for the collector value to rise.

 

My conclusion: Both parties are happy. What is the problem?

[SkyDream 315]

If you can get people to pay you willingly for something, ... anything, really, ... then you've probably earned the right to accept the money from them. It's either a Darwinian reaction or simple capitalism. Then again, they needn't be exclusive to one another.

 

Also, would it be possible to split the topic or something? Half of this thread appears to be a depressing conversation between fact and fantasy, and I'm not sure who is which.

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

This thread has an interesting trend.  During the debate between @@TheMarkz0ne and @@Nine, not a single person brohoofed anything TM0 had to say.  On the other hand, Nine got more than a dozen "brohoofs".

 

Granted, the popularity of an idea does not mean it is justifiable, sustainable or even logical.  However, TM0 you really might benefit from digging deep and asking why it is that so few of your ideas are given credence, even among the more-tolerant-than-most Brony community, especially considering that nobody here has anything to financially gain or lose by the proving or disproving the ideas you've brought up.

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

This thread has an interesting trend.  During the debate between @@TheMarkz0ne and @@Nine, not a single person brohoofed anything TM0 had to say.  On the other hand, Nine got more than a dozen "brohoofs".

 

Granted, the popularity of an idea does not mean it is justifiable, sustainable or even logical.  However, TM0 you really might benefit from digging deep and asking why it is that so few of your ideas are given credence, even among the more-tolerant-than-most Brony community, especially considering that nobody here has anything to financially gain or lose by the proving or disproving the ideas you've brought up.

People missed the point of the fact he met family he never knew with verified documentation from the real world. 0 brain activity is 0 brain activity. This doesn't need to be more complicated than it is. It's a book explaining an experience and if you are denying his qualifications as a neurologist, then I'm sorry. There were more in his field of profession, that studied NDEs and cannot explain them with empiricism because they cannot explain how 0 brain activity, as in a dead brain can come back and give testimony of events that relate to the real world.

If you can get people to pay you willingly for something, ... anything, really, ... then you've probably earned the right to accept the money from them. It's either a Darwinian reaction or simple capitalism. Then again, they needn't be exclusive to one another.

 

Also, would it be possible to split the topic or something? Half of this thread appears to be a depressing conversation between fact and fantasy, and I'm not sure who is which.

...What fantasy part? The fact the guy died and had no vitals or brain activity and witnessed something real? None of  us here are neurologist.

Edited May 14, 2014 by TheMarkz0ne

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

Such is life.  I think I'm done here.  I hope somebody learns something from this...discussion. 

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

 People bought the damn book, and if people obtained what they expected of it as a product, I see nothing unfair on it. If you want a book with scientific proofs and studies, don't buy the product that doesn't satisfy your needs. If you want to blame anyone for the high sales of it, blame the consumers.

 

 On a side note, what I actually hate is the word 'metaphysical'. Physics is the study of reality, so something metaphysical is something outside of reality? irreal? Non existent! If we discover that our world is subtly and misteriously affected by some underlying form of counciousness or whatever you want to say, it would be great and intriguing, it would open a brand new branch of Physics.

 Maybe the term is actually used to what is outside of the current knowledge of physics. Though, talking about, for example, an unified Relativity and String Theory theory doens't hear exactly metaphysical..!

There is science in those fields. But this book is not that type of book.

Such is life.  I think I'm done here.  I hope somebody learns something from this...discussion. 

Yeah, I learned that science is a police state and we cannot question anything, because science is always 100%right......Remind me why humans are suffering and these scientist have done a poor job at helping people....Something they're supposed to be doing.