MDLineArt

@@Seamore Sandwich, So long as you're posting, you're grand! @@Blitz Boom Shameless Plug, and thanks Blitz Boom for the great sells, and I hope I give as good as I got Also: Does this mean I am now the Queen Chrysalis player of this venue like @@Seamore Sandwich is for Twilight Sparkle and Pincess Luna?

Selling - The Art Of Putting The Other Player Over What Is "Selling"? Selling is a wrestling term that comes from the person being struck by a move trying to convince the audience that it hurt more than it likely did. The core concept is that when someone does something, it's good to react to it. Why is Selling so Important? There are a few reasons that this small concept does so much more to enhance the other players, and in turn your own, experience when in a Role Playing Thread. First of all, it means what ever is done has much more impact. The second is it shows respect to the other player and recognizing their character as more than just someone to brag about how cool you are. Many people put hours into their character, draw concept art (Or have it drawn for them), think of back stories they want to share and over-all want to take this Ponysonna into a group with you to have some fun. You probably did the same thing, and you would like to be more than a one-liner character in this story your Game Master / Dungeon Master / Story Teller has crafted for you all to play in, right? Let me compare and contrast two reactions. For what ever reason, a character is a very strong fighter (We'll call him Bralwer), and decides after a particularly rude remark to punch another pony in the mouth. You playing that other pony is suppose to be very tough though (We'll call him Toughy. I know, I am lazy with names right now). Example 1: Brawler punched Toughy in the face, and Toughy watched him without moving an inch, smiling. Example 2: Toughy felt the impact of Brawler punching him in the face, sending him over the table and crashing through the far wall. It took a few moments for Toughy to dig himself out of the debris of Brawler's strike, and as he stood among the ruin holding his jaw, he smiled back at Brawler through the pain. In the first example, neither character is really seems all that strong or tough, which are suppose to be their core traits. The reason is we have no way to guage how strong Brawler is, and because of that Toughy doesn't look like he's that tough, he looks just as weak because we don't really have a gauge to know what he can take. The second example though showcases both. Keep in mind, you're posting as Toughy in this case. You are trying to showcase just how strong Brawler is, because the better he looks, the better you look as Toughy. You are showcasing a reason to believe that he is that strong (His core character trait), and using it to show your own. Keep in mind, Toughy isn't saying it didn't hurt, he's showing it did. In doing so, he makes BOTH characters look better. What Do You Sell? Take the time to get to know Out Of Character who you will be dealing with, and try to learn what the other players are trying to play. Are they playing a particularly large character? Try and make it a point to make that size difference matter, and make it matter to your character. Are they playing a non-pony race? React accordingly! Personal Example: I play a Changeling called Scissor Biter, who takes on the persona of an earth pony Bashful Thread who resides in Ponyville. If you find out that he is a changeling, the WORST thing you can do is be loving and accepting like it's no big deal. While love and tolerance is a wonderful thing, in this context what you have done is take the reveal of a character's true self and let it die in the wind. React accordingly, threaten to call the guards, scream out loud, get hostile, do anything but react with a blank "Meh, I've seen changelings before." Don't be afraid of it putting the characters at odds. Conflict is the center of a story, it's resolution the crux of any good story. Seeding Your Character's Traits Another concept I want to share with you is Seeding your character with things to be Sold. When you write your posts, you have to make mention traits your character is showing, to give the other players something to work with. If you are playing a character who is rich, you need to show that in some way. Describe something about your character that is standing out, be it their physical characteristics, their mood, their personal ticks, strengths, weaknesses (Definitely their weaknesses!), or any other trait that is important at the time. Think of it as a game of Volley Ball. This is the initial 'serve', giving the ball to the other player. You want to give them something of note, a conflict or something to react to. Involve them somehow. This is often one of the things I find many struggle with, because they may respond to what was given, they don't serve anything back and in doing so the responses get smaller and smaller, until people are responding with short sentences because they have nothing else to give. If you notice this happening, consider what you can do to give them something to react to. Final Thoughts Never be afraid to ask a player what they may want to get over, or what experiences they are trying to have. Believe it or not, the character you brought into the Role Play is full of story potential for another player, especially once you compare and contrast. Don't be afraid to use your failings as a character to put the other guy over, and you'll find that once they get it they will give it back to you. The reward: A game people keep wanting to come back to!

The core reason I often find is if the RP is worth the time of the writer, and this often times comes down to the entertainment that they receive by it. Considering it a collaborative writing effort, the trick is to work with the other player with communication In Character and Out Of Character. Biggest way I try to do this is to 'Sell' (Wrestling Term) by trying to put over the other person's gimmic, and giving them something to put over of my own character. Another issue that happens too often for my tastes is the second someone comes up with a conflict, another person will pull a magic maguffin that suddenly makes it a non-issue, and in doing so doesn't make themselves look any better but does just make any chance of story development to become stagnant because there was no development or character exploration to be had. If the story is no longer engaging because things are not being made to be interesting, then why continue? The other part I find is that many don't play off each other's differences to highlight how the personalities are that vastly different, making each pony feel more like they are separate entity, rather than just a part of the group and in doing so seemingly just another cog in a group-think project. That's not to say it has to be hostile, but often times I find everyone wants to be the hero, but arn't really that sure how to go about it, and start moving on as they would expect by getting to it and solving it, but don't try to make it seem that dangerous because they could just as easily pass it by. They seem to be afraid to play off their weaknesses and build up from there. When this is what you are running into with your RPs, why would you want to come in day after day to make a 400-3000 character post to respond to a 200 character post that does this repeatedly? Just my first thoughts on the matter. I am grateful that this is becoming less of a thing in the RPs I am involved with.

@@Loud Opinion Bashful Thread looked over Gold Dust, as he noticed more of the patrons starting to look at the fuss between these two. The nervousness in Bashful's eyes was clear for anyone to see. His mind was going a mile a minute, trying to come up with something, a way to get this pony to stop prying. "Um... I- I'm... I'm sick ok? Cant eat anything, I'll just make a mess when it... um... comes back up again!" "C-can I go now?" Bashful's voice suddenly became very quiet. The scrutiny of Gold Dust's eyes worried him grately, and even if he was to get involved in learning how this pony managed to get past paying for everything, the price would be too great. Mother would be furious, and her ire was more than he could handle. Bashful looked around, trying to find a way out. "I am sorry if I offended you, but I don't want to..." He placed a hoof over his mouth, stopping before he said something worse. He contemplated of running off to the washroom and 'freshen up'. Maybe he could hide for a bit. Why couldn't he be good at this like his brothers and sisters?!

@@Loud Opinion, Oh, I am counting on it. It's actually just a natural reaction. Remember, you are cornering Bashful in the fact he doesn't eat like the ponies do, but I cant outright say it! Being a bit of a coward, his default mode is to run and avoid, I just figured I put you in a conflict of interest to build tension. (I enjoy situations where there is no easy answer)

I think it being convoluted is also the reason it works a bit better. The key difference is it's not an embrace but an acceptance of her grief, jealousy, and inner turmoil, but the reason being is it's part of moving on. It has to be accepted first before you move on, and I think much like anyone who has done a great wrong, before you can even accept the forgiveness of others, you have to do so for yourself first. This also gives an interesting angle, because upon first appearance, it would seem that taking on the Nightmare Moon persona again is her sliding back, and I want to use that as a point of the reader feeling like she's fallen further, give that lowest point, for the audience, and Luna to realize at this point in her journey, she has grown, is willing to accept herself, and begin forgiving herself. This allows her to tap into that power she once coveted to overcoming her sister, and instead directing it to something worth while. The portrayals of Luna at this point have been about denial. She does everything to separate herself from Nightmare Moon, but in doing so she's not facing it, she's running from it. I think this is the difference between what the show has done with Luna and her past, and what I am trying to take it to.

@@Loud Opinion "Oh! Um, no thanks. I've already eaten." As tough his stomach defied him, it growled again. ".." It was after a long moment of silence, the waiter came back and placed the pancakes down to Gold Dust and smiled warmly. "Is there anything else I can do for you two?" "Oh, um, no I'm fine, thank you!" Bashful murmured quickly. "I think it's best I get going, enjoy your pancakes!" He tried to scamper off (Feel free to stop him if you wish), suddenly this being the worst place he could be.

@@Loud Opinion "I... I don't know. I'd rather not think of my life before I met Orange Lace and Fire Cracker. They've given me a home in Ponyville, taught me to sew, helped me get a life here. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you." A slight nervous smirk left the corner of his lip. "That's just how it works." "I am reminded of the pony on the ocean right now. Surrounded by water with nothing to drink." It was at that moment his stomach grumbled loudly, and Bashful Thread lowered his head. "My family knows more than one thing about going hungry. I wouldn't wish it on anypony." He brought the cup again to his snout and inhaled the aroma, placing the cup gently back on it's saucer. "I trust things work themselves out, however unlikely. It's all about opportunity, and being ready when it comes. I think it's good to keep things optimistic. It also helps that I live frugally, so it's not like I throw bits around. So how do you managed to get by this well without employment? Do you at least have enough to pay for pancakes?"

@@Blitz Boom Charging at the dog and pegisi, he watched a red burst of light, and saw every one of them falling to the ground. The bodies piled upon one another, and even Bashful could not hide his confusion. He leaned over one of the fallen cultists, and poked at them with his hoof, nudging the body a bit. Out cold. He turned to the prisoners, and walked to their terrified selves. "I... I don't know." Did Giddon do it? What happened? No, this was no time to be distracted. They needed to get out of here! "We need to get moving." Looking over the griffon, then to the cultists, and back again. "Um... So you're not one of them?" He moved along to some of the prisoners that tried to fight back with him, picking them up and throwing one over his back to carry them. As they started down the hall to the exit, Bashful turned to to the Giffon. "You coming?"

@@Taialin, Oh yeah, I would never forget ya I appreciate the feedback. Yes, it very much boils down to a match of the 'titans', but there are few Villains that match as well as I see it, and I really would like to make sure that it is viewed as a grand payoff, and I think there is very very few villains that can match up to it. Particularly I want Luna completely broken internally (And a bit externally, but thats to present her state at the time, despiration and proving she has a way to grow first), to make it a better underdog rising to the challenge story. The focus though is that growth, and I feel that any 'fight' should be an external representation of what is going internally between characters. The way I see it, Luna denying Nightmare Moon is her forcing to act with one hoof tied behind her back, because she wont allow herself to slide back into becoming Nightmare Moon, putting her in a state of denial. The strength only comes when she unbinds herself, accepts her feelings, and ultimately forgives herself for it. As for what Nightmare Moon represents, her grief, her jelousy of her sister, her internal turmoil, and her potential left unchecked. I know cannon wise Nightmare Moon is the result of a spell, but it is also something Luna brought about on herself, and the way I want to potray it is as a 'This IS your full potential, but you're scared of it because of the baggage'

@@cwhip9, What do you have in mind? ((And are you actually leading to asking if I should play her? O_o))

Even though it's obvious, this needs to be watched after seeing that.

@, I suppose it comes from what I often see in the forums. I am trying to hammer out the bullet points of a plot right now for that bad idea, just to get it out there on paper, but the standard I am holding it to is "Would this make a good episode if it were an actual script?" I figured if I am gonna write Fanfiction about a character I created, that's one thing. Then I have to teach others about the character and while trying to catch initial interest is tougher, is under a heck of alot less scrutiny than what I am doing right now, trying to work with established characters and show cannon. The reason I am worried it is a terrible idea is more on the standards of others I see. For me, I like villains, and I find the concept of Queen Chrysalis too facinating to not be used, as I think it really is something the writers need to get back to, and I think the idea of Luna being filled out a bit more in her own arch is something I want to see as a fan. And to top it off, I think I am not the only one who loves the idea of a villain vs villain situation, which works all the better when one of those villains are redeemed but still has that baggage of when they were the badpony. For me, the story writes itself. Maybe it's too paint-by-numbers, but ya gotta work within the rules of storytelling before you work outside them. I am trying to focus on just making a good story, and learning the craft. I hope that if I write the story well enough, I may actually gain some valuable experience in doing so and maybe pair it with my art to illustrate stories as well as write them. Maybe it's me fanboying a little too much, but they are the two characters that resonate with me the most in the series.

@@Loud Opinion "I can relate to that, more than you may think. It's hard when something is so close, yet it feels like it's forever out of reach." Bashful could only think of his Mother right now, and how close she came to having it all. Then to be shunted off and scattered, it was more humiliation than they could bare. He could only imagine that same feeling had to be running through Gold Dust. He just had the misfortune of being alone with it. "It eats at you. No amount of pancakes will make that go away." After a moments pause, Bashful Thread perked up his ears and smiled "But it does help to have a full belly!" "Besides, what's life without a little challenge? Everyone has them, and the only thing you can do is grit your teeth and keep trotting through it, hopefully with a smile and a plate full of pancakes!"

Ok, I MAY have crossed an RP line right now, but I am posting it and I will retcon it if you want, but I am using this moment for two things. 1) To Explore the idea of a changeling hive-mind, and how it is that the hive-mind is a double edged sword for Bashful, rather than just a 'get out of jail free' card for him to go all badass 2) I wanted to see if I could write a convincing Queen Chrysalis. How did I do?

@@Blitz Boom "NO! NO NO NO!! STOP IT! STOP IT!" That voice in among the buzzing of thousands screamed inside Bashful's head, his own voice in among the hundred thousand minds of the hive, yet no matter how much he pleaded, his body just kept going towards this target it had acquired. Chasing down the smaller griffon, he could feel his hoofs grab hold of her by the collar and pinned her to the wall. Hissing and leering at her tiny form, Bashful could only watch in horror at what he was about to do. Clambering over all those thousand ideas that all droned on, he couldn't stop his hoof raised, and coming down swiftly at her head. The crash was loud, and reverberated throughout the hall, as his hoof hit the wall beside her, shaking. It wasn't him regaining control, there was just a new thing that had caught his attention. Another chanting, one in the room. His eyes fell to those cultists speaking in unison, but their words were miles away from Bashful Thread. Instead, all that he could hear was 'Threat, Threat, Threat.' That hissing turned to the cultists, dropping the Griffon and pointing down the hall. "Go!" That cold alien voice left Bashful's lips as he raged inside his own mind. The parameters were set, and he called for the help of his brothers and sisters... Now he was locked in course, and he couldn't put that djinn back in the lamp. All he could do was live it. The prisoner's started to lurch past him, many of them as terrified as Bashful was inside. Many of them slipped past the changeling and griffon, though a few with what little strength they had pleaded with the griffon to come with them, the others pleaded with the changeling to leave, unknowing what he truly was. "My Darling Dear... What are you fighting about?" Time suddenly sat still, everything went grey and it felt like he was home... The presence of his mother filled his heart, and he could not deny that calm that came. Even here, in his moment of need, Mother was there. "Mother! I'm so scared! I- I tried to be brave, but I couldn't! I can't do this alone. I am all alone here." "You came here because you let your guard down. You got caught, didn't you Scissor Biter? Do you really think that Griffon is going to keep to his word? Of course not! He's using you, and will throw you to the guards or worse when he is done with you." "But mother, these ponies need my help! I need -" "What you need is to stop being naive. My little fool, did you ever stop to consider what would happen if you were discovered? Months of work from everyone is in jeopardy because of you! They can never know! Do you know what you are doing here?!" The disappointment in mother's tone was enough to shatter Bashful's heart to a million pieces. He could only sink deeper, become smaller, trying not to be noticed in some hopes that his mother's ire would stop. "I... I don't know Mother! I am trying to make it work, I am trying to do what you taught me, but it's so hard to stay. I am so hungry all the time, and I try to bring what I can to the swarm, I know I am not the only one going hungry..." Bashful could only feel shame in his actions. The threat of cultists tearing him was the furthest thing from his mind now. The he could feel it, even if it was only in his mind, her touch under his chin to raise his eyes up. "Mother is here now, Scissor Biter... This is a lesson you need to learn. All betray, all manipulate, all are looking for weakness. You are a part of my brood, you should know this better than any 'pony'. You must be smart, and you can not let anyone so close. It leads to you and the swarm going hungry. I know I have let you slip too far, do your own plots, and look where it got us! You must think me a terrible mother." The words were enough to stab at him, guilt binding him in knots. "No! No Mother! You are wonderful! You always been there! You are always there! Please, don't leave me! I want to be better, I want to do my part! I am just so far in, I don't know what to do!" It was enough to reduce Bashful to tears if he could cry, though in reality outside his mind his body was poised to do one thing: Fight. Then there was that laugh, that beautiful, chilling laugh from Queen Chrysalis. "Then learn. I am coming for you even now. You are a part of me, and we are all a part of you! Learn from this Scissor Biter, and never forget..." Time sped up, and suddenly Bashful Thread found he was in control. He was left in front of a lot of angry cultists. They were murmuring something about a Watchful Eye, or some nonsense. He tried to muster what courage he could, as he charged forward. "I am never alone."

I've actually hit this problem myself just recently. I have an idea of a for a story using established characters, but the question I have to ask is: Are you writing the story based on the established characters because you could see this being plausible, or are you writing them because you want the main six for the sake of having them? Not sure if that's clear, but let me do an example: If I wanted to do a story about overworking yourself and the problems that come from it, Apple Jack or Rarity are very prone to this flaw. However, if we were trying to do it for Rainbow Dash, it doesn't work near as much, as Rainbow Dash tends to be a procrastinator, and typically leaves things to the last minute. So when I do this sort of story about Rainbow Dash, I have to consider what themes that define that character. Going outside it usually leaves you with a sense of 'This doesnt work', and I think this happens far too often. However, if you want to do that story, it may be served better with OCs that are designed with the characteristics needed to tell the story.

That's half the fun, those little things you discover as you go on and realize you may be out of a comfort zone. Play it up, and have some fun with it

There is far far too much awesome in this one image!

@@El Duderino, Appreciate it. Unfortunately, the original spark came from the old song "When Bad Meets Evil". Not to say I want to write them one-note, but I think that clean-cut protagonist/antagonist work feels a little too obvious. I may write it just to get it out of my system, but you are right, I am very hard on myself, and I don't feel like what I do is quite up to where it needs to be.

See, the thing is one of my MAJOR pitfalls as a writer/role player is that I DO enjoy the edgy-for-the-sake-of-edgy stuff. It's not what I write or create as much anymore, but I do find that I empathize with villains more, and as such I want to write for them. While I could try to do something with Rarity or Apple Jack, I don't feel it would connect as well because they don't offer alot of material that I find facinating to work with. I'm trying to tone it down, but in doing so rather than gaining something else out of it, I find the work just feels watered down. Appreciate you thinking the concept in intriguing, but let's be honest, most of the fandom would shut that story down faster than a new borne alicorn in a season opener.

So for some reason I have been just on this kick of coming up with terrible ideas. Normally I am not a writer, more of a roleplayer, but I realize the things I would like to see arn't found, so I feel this compulsion to create these ideas, but I also recognize they are a terrible idea just on cursory glance. With the common discussion on how to avoid these pitfalls in writing, or in general creating among the fandom, what do you do when everything you start thinking up just seems to want to drive you further into some of these things that make people just groan. I imagine it comes from the fact I have always enjoyed darker tones, and I feel the MLP:FiM universe has characters that can not only explore it, but give a world where you can come back from it. I am a fan of villains, always cheered for the bad guys, even when I know they are going to get their comeuppance, I just always found them more interesting than many of the protagonists that they are up against. In this line of thought, I've been messing around with some of my own head-cannon, and feel this compulsion to write based around my two favouret villains Queen Chrysalis and Nightmare Moon (Oooo, Edgy!). Primarily, Nightmare Moon / Princess Luna I find easily to write the concepts that define her character, that of coming to terms with your past mistakes, but also why they came about. There is also some good stories to tell about the price of ambition matched with the drive of envy. She tries to separate herself from Nightmare Moon, that being understandable, but she in turn also doesn't acknowledge how strong she was for it. This separation is not acceptance, and in doing so makes her struggle to move on, and it's these themes I want to play on. Queen Chrysalis on the other hand you have (Head Cannon) a figure so focused on providing for her swarm and rising that you can play on themes of good traits taken to extremes to become weaknesses. Now with this manipulator, this crafter of plot and tactician, it seems that one advantage Queen Chrysalis has is being able to prey on emotional unrest. This makes a very interesting combination when paired with the less than secure Luna. Long story short, the concept comes from their histories. Queen Chrysalis defeated Celestia directly, and Luna could only do that as Nightmare Moon (And even then it is questionable). By the end I would like to have Luna have to embrace herself, in her entirety, no longer denying a fault of herself and having to accept what she is. Have a confrontation where Luna takes on the Nightmare Moon persona again, and leave the audience questioning if she can come back from it again, only to find there is nothing to 'come back' from, as she has accepted both Luna and Nightmare Moon as one and the same, unlocking her own full potential because she no longer bars herself from her potential due to her thousand year banishment. Like I said, terrible idea. So how do you guys get out of these situations, or how do you go about recrafting the idea so it's not a fundamentally flawed concept?

@@Loud Opinion "Mmmmm, pancakes." The expression seemed a little forced, but Bashful continued to watch Gold Dust. Dust seemed to struggle getting the waiter's attention, which was understandable as the business started to pick up. Ponies of all types and colours seemed to gather here, which made it almost ideal for Bashful thread. Still, his eyes would keep drifting to Gold Dust, the newest face he has met. Shifting, his body took the same sitting position as Dust had, and he raised his hoof to the waiter. There are some advantages that come from being a regular customer, even if it was for the same thing. "Oh Bashful, did I forget the sugar?" The waiter said even as he was finishing up with another table. He worked his way around the tables, and reached for the cold tea sitting beside the still steeping cup. "N-no, it's just..." Bashful suddenly became a little nervous, then looked to his guest across the table. "An order of pancakes for my new friend." "Oh, of course! Sorry, it's getting a little hectic." Scribbling down the order in the notepad he carried, he rushed off to complete his duties. "Sometimes it takes a little understanding to get what you want. Running across thousands of faces, must be tough to keep remembering them all." Bashful tried to smile, weak as it was. "Repetition makes things easier." "So what do you do Dust? Coming from such a prestigious line must fill you with pride." Bashful leaned on the table looking with inquisitive eyes, taking in the tiny details to Gold Dust's expressions, bringing the tea back to his muzzle to inhale the scent.