What if: Celestia doesn't control the Sun

[Lordav 3,428]

I mean hear me out of this, what if Celestia doesn’t actually control the Sun. I don’t recall anytime when she was missing more than two days and the Sun didn’t show up (you could talk about that one time the Everfree Forest got her and Luna but it wasn’t necessarily more than a day). Firstly it could just be a normal “lie” in order to consolidate power. We have seen this in History as most pharaohs in Ancient Egypt were considered Gods. This could easily happen here too and no one dares to search for the truth since Celestia’s the ruler and they don’t want to risk getting into trouble.

Another aspect is that they truly believe that they are controlling these celestial objects and out of pure coincidence they think they lift the Sun when the Planet spins into position and the same happens with the moon.

“Hey but how about the time when those creepy plants captured Luna and Celestia and both the Sun and the Moon were present on the sky?”

“Well it could have just been an eclipse. During the episode we don’t really get too much glimpses at the sky after the initial spotting so we can assume that the eclipse took place but we just didn’t see it.”

                Another important thing is that before Celestia was in reign, before Equestria was created (pre-hearts warming eve) I suppose that the Sun and Moon were still there. In that case who was controlling them then? Did the Sun just shine all the time…than the planet would be a desert, was it only dark…that sounds like an ice age with no life to me. This also brings me to my next point which is that there are seasons on this planet. This means that the planet is round (which is why there is a gravity pull at its center which keeps the ponies from flying off). Judging by the “technological” age the show is set in (I’m not counting the radios, etc since they are rare occurrences) it is very probable that they believe the world is flat, therefore making the sun raised by pony scenario very credible for its inhabitants. Now let’s say their world IS as flat as a pizza…that would mean that when Celestia “drops” the Sun to rest it falls... Falls where? That would mean that there is a gravitational pull under the “pizza” pulling the Sun down…Wait doesn’t that mean that when the Sun is “raised” by Celestia she has to put up a non-stop effort in order to keep the sun up fighting this downward gravitational pull. Well in that case if she gets “shot down” the sun should fall right? But when Queen Chrysalis “defeats Celestia using “The powa of lurve” I dongt see the Sun plummeting down…Surely such a shock would have taken her mind off holing the sun up would it( or is there some kind of magical hook she just hangs it on).

                Now back to round earthlike planet scenario, I see that there are seasons in the show, this can only be the result of an orbit AROUND the Sun that doesn’t fit the Celestia raising the Sun story. (For anyone thinking about Pegasi…They control the weather…not the heat of the Sun, I don’t think it matters if u throw snow on the ground as it will melt at 40 degrees). This indirectly means that the moon also orbits the planet taking away Luna’s role of controlling it (sorry Luna :’( ). Also a minor detail would be that the Sun has to be very far away from the surface of the planet otherwise it would look like mercury. In that case “WHATS THE RANGE ON THAT MAGIC HORN???” That would mean she can affect anything on the planet with her magic. Then why doesn’t she stop things from happening in the crystal empire form her throne if she can?

                Now let’s think from characters point of view. If all the antagonists: Discord (at first), King Sombra, Queen Chrysalis and the red Minotaur magic-absorbing prison guy knew that Celestia controls the Sun, are they that stupid. Can’t they work out that defeating her would mean throwing their world into eternal darkness and ice. I mean their aims are mainly to enslave all ponies for: fun (Discord), labour (Sombra), love (Chrysalis) and Magic (last guy). I don’t see how pony popsicles can help them whatsoever. Also in Twilights kingdom with the red Minotaur magic-absorbing guy the two sisters (+ Candence) give Twilight all their magic. Shouldn’t have the Sun at least fall for one second as nobody was holding it???

So out of taking advantage of easily controllable masses or just coincidence and belief I support my theory that the sisters DO NOT control the Sun and Moon(and yes this applies to Luna’s moon control too).

                This is pretty much all I can think of, please tell me what you think.

 

 

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,840]

Then what the hell was Twilight doing with the sun in Twilight Kingdom?

 

I just skimmed this btw so ya..

[Espurr 449]

Minotaur dude? He has a name. It's Tirek. And um Twilight was doing something with the sun in Twilight's kingdom. I think you skipped that part.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Star Ruby

[Lordav 3,428]

Then what the hell was Twilight doing with the sun in Twilight Kingdom?

 

I just skimmed this btw so ya..

It is a matter of prespective. Th planet is a completely movable object meaning that it wasnt neceseraly the sun moving but the planet itself. This could be due to some causes. (Random ex. Asteroid) or controling th planet via magic... either that orall I said is total Rubbish.

[Sanctified Absence 126]

Pre-Celestia/Luna reign many Unicorns combined magic to control the Sun and moon.

 

Discord was shown to have power over the Sun and Moon (or at least the ability to mess up their respective cycles.)

 

Twilight controlled such Celestial objects in Twilight's Kingdom.

 

In all honesty I actually think the Sun and Moon of MLP FiM are incredibly small compared to what we know, as Celestia has not shown the Telekinetic ability to move a mass thousands of times larger than Equestria itself.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Blissful Chaos

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,840]

It is a matter of prespective. Th planet is a completely movable object meaning that it wasnt neceseraly the sun moving but the planet itself. This could be due to some causes. (Random ex. Asteroid) or controling th planet via magic... either that orall I said is total Rubbish.

Lets just remember we are dealing with cartoon logic. Trying to break it down the way we can usually break down something in this reality isn't as easy in a cartoon.

 

Because lets face it,regardless of whether if it was the sun moving or the planet they reside on,this would have killed them all because gravity and blah blah.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN5IUyMfGz0

 

Putting cartoon logic aside,perhaps Celestia does only move the planet,but then why would Luna ever be needed to perform the same job?(not that she was needed for 1000yrs but you get what im saying lol)

[Lordav 3,428]

Pre-Celestia/Luna reign many Unicorns combined magic to control the Sun and moon.

 

Discord was shown to have power over the Sun and Moon (or at least the ability to mess up their respective cycles.)

 

Twilight controlled such Celestial objects in Twilight's Kingdom.

 

In all honesty I actually think the Sun and Moon are incredibly small compared to what we know, as Celestia has not shown the Telekinetic ability to move a mass thousands of times larger than Equestria itself.

In that case how could such a small object actually heat up the planet and light it up. In our universe white dwarfs (might be the red ones) are the smallest stars and are cold...not hot which would mean that there would be no heat on the planet...thus making it unlivable. Also sucha small moon would result in no gravitational effect on the planet meaning that the seas probably have no waves.etc

 

Lets just remember we are dealing with cartoon logic. Trying to break it down the way we can usually break down something in this reality isn't as easy in a cartoon.

 

Because lets face it,regardless of whether if it was the sun moving or the planet they reside on,this would have killed them all because gravity and blah blah.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN5IUyMfGz0

 

Putting cartoon logic aside,perhaps Celestia does only move the planet,but then why would Luna ever be needed to perform the same job?(not that she was needed for 1000yrs but you get what im saying lol)

ummm...rest i suppose?

 

Also not actually killed them as much as having a negative effect on the envroment and heavily damaging the ecosysytem.

Edited June 30, 2014 by lordav

[Sanctified Absence 126]

In that case how could such a small object actually heat up the planet and light it up. In our universe white dwarfs (might be the red ones) are the smallest stars and are cold...not hot which would mean that there would be no heat on the planet...thus making it unlivable. Also sucha small moon would result in no gravitational effect on the planet meaning that the seas probably have no waves.etc

 

Well Pegasi can control the weather, the Alicorns can control the seasons as well as a whole bunch of other semi-over the top occurrences.

 

The main problem is that whatever the theory there are in fact problems that haven't been canonically resolved.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

What if? Then I guess much of the magical properties of that universe would be false. But Celestia can and does raise the sun. It is her special power which allows it to happen.

[HunterTSN 1,444]

I like to believe she actually controls the earth and keeps it moving around the sun. The rest of Equestria believes that she controls the sun because it seems, to the normal pony, that the earth is still and the sun circles it. Also we've seen that this belief has roots in their traditions and holidays so its easier to keep up the facade rather than explain why their history was a lie and celebrations pointless.

Edited June 30, 2014 by TheSteampunkNinja (TSN)

[Lordav 3,428]

I like to believe she actually controls the earth and keeps it moving around the sun. The rest of Equestria believes that she controls the sun because it seems, to the normal pony, that the earth is still and the sun circles it. Also we've seen that this belief has roots in their traditions and holidays so its easier to keep up the facade rather than explain why their history was a lie and celebrations pointless.

That is a lot more likely after me...

 

 

I wonder what would happen when a pony Giordano Bruno comes along

 

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,840]

 

 

ummm...rest i suppose?   Also not actually killed them as much as having a negative effect on the envroment and heavily damaging the ecosysytem.

 

Which might have well killed them if it din't already. Im sure if our sun behaved as such we would be in trouble as such a massive celestial body bobbling all over the place,possibly faster than the speed of light(assuming their sun is the same size and distance as ours),is going to cause some havoc lol.

 

Also i don't see why they would need rest as Celestia did a good job doing the planetary body movement spell on her own for 1000yrs.

 

My point is when the show was written,it was with a clear indication the Celestia and Luna would move the celestial bodies,heck even the show states it and if it was to the contrary why wouldn't we know by now or why wouldn't have Twilight recognized that shes only moving the planet and not the sun?(assuming it was a secret)  

[IridscentNionios 1,422]

 

 

I suppose that the Sun and Moon were still there

Actually it is said that the unicorns controlled the sun and the moon at that time. So it's for sure that someone always controlled the sun and the moon.

 

Judging by the “technological” age the show is set in (I’m not counting the radios, etc since they are rare occurrences) it is very probable that they believe the world is flat, therefore making the sun raised by pony scenario very credible for its inhabitants.

No that would be a little bit dumb... they do have technological devices that Twilight used in order to measure Pinkie Pie's "Pinkie-ness". There are photographs, there are telescopes, there are ways to go to the moon ((as seen in the comics)).

 

But when Queen Chrysalis “defeats Celestia using “The powa of lurve” I dongt see the Sun plummeting down…

That's because it's not determined whether the sun would actually "fall" or continue to work without Celestia. It actually is possible that the sun would just remain there. And possibly if Chrysalis controlled Celestia she would probably also control the sun. Or she at least would have the power to control the sun.

 

Now back to round earthlike planet scenario, I see that there are seasons in the show, this can only be the result of an orbit AROUND the Sun that doesn’t fit the Celestia raising the Sun story.

FALSE... the season are not created entirely by the shape of the earth they are created by the spinning of Earth's axis and the elliptic orbit of the earth around the sound. The orbit of the earth isn't a complete circle rather there are moments where Earth is actually closer to the sun. Celestia raising the sun would make it entirely under her control how to raise it at what height and whatever else.

 

This indirectly means that the moon also orbits the planet taking away Luna’s role of controlling it (sorry Luna :’( ).

As seen in the comics Luna was able to bring the moon closer to Equis and they were able to go there and experience what it was like there. It is assumed that the moon was likely another planet corrupted by the nightmare forces.

 

Also a minor detail would be that the Sun has to be very far away from the surface of the planet otherwise it would look like mercury. In that case “WHATS THE RANGE ON THAT MAGIC HORN???” That would mean she can affect anything on the planet with her magic. Then why doesn’t she stop things from happening in the crystal empire form her throne if she can?

It might not be only the range of the magic but actually sight that hampers her too. Different magic might have different range. There might be a magical conduit or whatever.

 

Now let’s think from characters point of view. If all the antagonists: Discord (at first), King Sombra, Queen Chrysalis and the red Minotaur magic-absorbing prison guy knew that Celestia controls the Sun, are they that stupid. Can’t they work out that defeating her would mean throwing their world into eternal darkness and ice. I mean their aims are mainly to enslave all ponies for: fun (Discord), labour (Sombra), love (Chrysalis) and Magic (last guy). I don’t see how pony popsicles can help them whatsoever. Also in Twilights kingdom with the red Minotaur magic-absorbing guy the two sisters (+ Candence) give Twilight all their magic. Shouldn’t have the Sun at least fall for one second as nobody was holding it???

No because as it was said in the beggining of the season when someone doesn't control the sun... IT JUST DOESN'T MOVE.

[Lordav 3,428]

 

 

FALSE... the season are not created entirely by the shape of the earth they are created by the spinning of Earth's axis and the elliptic orbit of the earth around the sound. The orbit of the earth isn't a complete circle rather there are moments where Earth is actually closer to the sun. Celestia raising the sun would make it entirely under her control how to raise it at what height and whatever else.

(got lazy there...i thought it was obvious<---the elyptical orbit)

 

 

 

 

No that would be a little bit dumb... they do have technological devices that Twilight used in order to measure Pinkie Pie's "Pinkie-ness". There are photographs, there are telescopes, there are ways to go to the moon ((as seen in the comics)).

 

Telescopes wouldnt actually have told that much. Giordano Bruno and Galileo Galilei both used telescopes and there was still the believe of everything moving around the earth (Bruno got killed for not backing down againt of the Catholic Church)

[IridscentNionios 1,422]

@@Lordav,Mind you some of the old greek scientists also proved that the Earth was round and also calculated roughly it's size. Are we questioning the believability of such things? I think that's more subjective than you think. 

[Lordav 3,428]

@@Lordav,Mind you some of the old greek scientists also proved that the Earth was round and also calculated roughly it's size. Are we questioning the believability of such things? I think that's more subjective than you think. 

greek theorists actually estimates the circumference of the earth by using the shadows and some formulas. BUt as the dark ages fell... well pizza earth was up. thats pretty much why columbus almost faced a revolt on his ships. The crew feared the'd fall off. (and that was centuries after both the greeks and Galileo)

[IridscentNionios 1,422]

@@Lordav,Also a great greek ship sailor actually strayed of-course a lot and might have ended up near one of the poles when he exited the heraclian gates aka the spain passage there whatever we call it. In any case i don't think the ponies are in a technological dark age and it would make no sense for Twilight to be entirely logical and stuff and be a scientist without being hunted. We have cities with skyscrapers and stuff... We have Mane-iac that was in a skyscraper filled city. There's obviously technology... 

[Lordav 3,428]

@@Lordav,Also a great greek ship sailor actually strayed of-course a lot and might have ended up near one of the poles when he exited the heraclian gates aka the spain passage there whatever we call it. In any case i don't think the ponies are in a technological dark age and it would make no sense for Twilight to be entirely logical and stuff and be a scientist without being hunted. We have cities with skyscrapers and stuff... We have Mane-iac that was in a skyscraper filled city. There's obviously technology... 

Mane-iac was in a comic book

 

yeah..ik also Vikings landed in greenland america long before the 1500's

 

The thing is even after the dark age ppl still believed that the world was round

 

Also to me Equestria seems kinda isolasionist...like Japan was and i dont think they put too much effort in finding stuff out about the universe and rest of the world

 

The only contact i recall in the show with non-equestrrians was with the Saddle Arabian diplomats and the griffin (whose name i forgot..i'm not good at names)

[Zygen 6,066]

Well, frankly it's possible I suppose she doesn't, but there isn't a ton of proof either way, and thus for the sake of simplicity and feeling more natural and just making more sense to me I believe she does control the sun.

 

Or well she more moves the sun around the planet really. 

 

So basically if she isn't present the Sun will just stay wherever it is.

 

As far as who would control the sun before Celestia, well according to Hearthswarming Eve the Unicorns did, it was just likely several unicorns who were well trained in magic who put their powers together to control the sun, or something to that effect.

 

The reason they don't do this now a days is because I assume none of the unicorns know how to do it, or are just not strong enough.

 

Either way I feel there isn't really sufficient enough reason to believe Celestia doesn't move the sun actually and that it's all just a conspiracy, so I just think it's easier to say she does, since that is what the show has said for quite a while.

 

I suppose it could really be up to what you want to believe about it though.

[IridscentNionios 1,422]

@@Lordav,Excuse me where there is griffin kingdom, zebras, and Celestia obviously visited/had diplomatic relations with horses is Saddle Arabia ((see magic duel)) i don't think they are THAT isolationist. Also Griffins participated in Equestria games so they are not foreign with them either. They likely aren't too many species out there.

 

The thing is even after the dark age ppl still believed that the world was round

What does THAT mean? In any case i don't think Celestia would be the one to hamper any technological advancements. 

[Pastel 7,630]

About the range: I think controlling the sun is Celestia's specialty, just like magic shields/barriers are Shining Armor's specialty. I think she can only control the sun, and nothing else at this distance.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Blobulle

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Well, they state over and over again that she does control the movement of the sun. And it wouldn't be that hard to take in, as they also can fly without wings large or strong enough to produce enough lift to allow them to fly, can control the weather, and clouds in their world seem to either be made of a semi-solid stuff, and not just water vapor, or they have magic that allows them to literally walk on water.

 

And Twilight could move it because she was given sun butts powers of control over the sun. And with all the magic, and chaos gods and hell being a literal place, I would not doubt that Equestria is in a geocentric universe were the solar bodies really do rotate and move around the habited planet.