Should Trixie have been punished?

[Jeric 46,880]

You know, just had an amusing thought, this is like an Imperialist discussing how they should impose their own moral standards on another society. Just let the Ponies have their own culture which seems to only give lasting punishments to the those that piss off Celestia directly.

 

[Fractured 2,684]

I disagree. She was justified in nothing. She was an arrogant pony with no real skills. A fraud that was justly called out. She just didn't want to do legitimate work and hated Twilight for actually being powerful at magic.

Why does everybody keep calling her a fraud? A fraud in what? Using magic...? Because she was the strongest Unicorn we'd seen until she stumbled into Ponyville. She attended Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns, which is basically unicorn Harvard. She's capable of outperforming any unicorn who doesn't specifically work with magic like Twilight and Shining Armor. And she showed up up the Mane Six...twice. If she's a fraud, that puts everyone else's legitimacy into serious doubt.

Oh, and none of the Mane Six were physically hurt during the events of Boast Busters. Heck, the only pony injured through Trixie's doing during the events of Magic Duel  is Applejack, and she didn't even seem to feel it.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[NightGuard 251]

They didn't interrupt the show, I posted the exact quote 5 seconds earlier. They did nothing

Yeah, but in this case, she's putting people in literal danger. It's like Gilderoy Lockhart and his claims of being able to beat magical beasts, in a magical world, your claims are taken seriously because some people can actually do them

 

Trixie didn't really beat them challenge wise. She humiliated them, yes, but she didn't actually beat them in a challenge. Not exactly cheating, but close to it.

 

And they certainly weren't trying to tie her up or spin her around

I'm pretty sure that Ponyville has some sense to know that a bucking unicorn with a stage and fireworks can't do all these things. The only people really fooled were Snips and Snails..

 

~~~~~~~

 

Oh and this...

 

Applejack: That's it! I can't stand for no more of this!

 

Spike: You show her, AJ!

 

Applejack: Can your magical powers do this?

 

~~~~~

 

Even if she did call out Twilight Sparkle have you seen other street performers?

Comedians sometimes poke fun at the audience, hell I have seen a magician even call someone out in Good Fun. It's called a persona that they have to keep up, or they might get caught acting different than in public.

Edited July 24, 2014 by NightGuard

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

So she can kick a tree clean of all of it's apples using her back hooves but she's unable to break a knot? I find that hard to believe.

AJ is kind of pathetic, tbh

 

 

Also, Twilight's magic is much more powerful than normal Trixie's, so that's not really much of a fair comparison

That was RD

 

 

Legally wrong? No, they were cool on that. Morally wrong? Yeahh. What they were trying to do to the Apple Family showed a lot of moral bankruptcy.

They only became morally bankrupt when they were denied, a dickish maneauver, but their deal was beneficial for the Apple family

 

 

And yeahh, they did Same with the first appearance, because I remember them getting ganged up on by the citizens of Ponyville because of that cheap cider they produced Trixie also got ran out of town during her first appearance, and her second appearance she just left quietly during the ceremony, giving Twilight the fireworks to help make her performance more spectacular.

The cheap cider was because they panicked and over clocked the machine, before hand, it was fine.

 

Trixie wasn't run out of town, she ran herself out 

[ggg-2 3,554]

After what she did to Twiley, I'm more than sure that a certain Captain of the Guard would have more than a few choice words for her.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,874]

1) Trixie is just arrogant during "Boast Busters" but by the end of "Magic Duel", she is King Sombra level evil.

I remember that, at the end of Magic Duel, she put on a fireworks display during Twilight's performance to help make it more spectacular and did it to where it looked like Twilight was doing it, and then apologized for all the wrong she did. I don't really think that's something Sombra would do

 

 

2) If she is not driven by Jealousy then why does she have to prove herself as the stronger to Twilight so badly?

 

Not jealous of Twilight, but likely to prove to it herself. Meh. Everything you say is making me want to show you my postulate on Trixie's character more and more, because I think it'd allow you to see her character from a different angle 

 

 

 

3) That is true but I still don't think you can compare the two situations.

Well, if you're going to say that, I think a "why" is in order Right now, you're just saying I can't compare them without giving me any reason why

 

 

4) Any real magician does not need to invent fake stories of their deeds like Trixie did.

You're right, and that extends even out of being a magician - but people do it anyway. It's not really fair to fault one person (pony?) for something that so many people do. Lying is wrong and bad.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ghostfacekiller39

[Hive King 2,001]

You know, just had an amusing thought, this is like an Imperialist discussing how they should impose their own moral standards on another society. Just let the Ponies have their own culture which seems to only give lasting punishments to the those that piss off Celestia directly.

 

By that logic, if human sacrifice is okay in another culture, we should let it continue

 

I'm pretty sure that Ponyville has some sense to know that a bucking unicorn with a stage and fireworks can't do all these things. The only people really fooled were Snips and Snails..

 

~~~~~~~

 

Oh and this...

 

Applejack: That's it! I can't stand for no more of this!

 

Spike: You show her, AJ!

 

Applejack: Can your magical powers do this?

 

~~~~~

 

Even if she did call out Twilight Sparkle have you seen other street performers?

Comedians sometimes poke fun at the audience, hell I have seen a magician even call someone out in Good Fun. It's called a persona that they have to keep up, or they might get caught acting different than in public.

Trixie isn't a comedian and most comedians don't physically assault their audience

[Jeric 46,880]

By that logic, if human sacrifice is okay in another culture, we should let it continue

 

 

 

Not the same logic, and based on both my personal world view and the phasing of your question being just general enough to define multiple approaches .. yes. Though this isn't the thread to discuss the Great Man Historical think that still permeates society.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,874]

AJ is kind of pathetic, tbh

So you're just going to say that about one of my favorite ponies without offering any reason why? 

 

That's not really fair to her, nor is it a very good argument.  

 

How is she pathetic?

 

That was RD

Then it's doubly so, because Trixie can't even fly There's a big difference between flying and using magic.

 

They only became morally bankrupt when they were denied, a dickish maneauver, but their deal was beneficial for the Apple family

 

 

The cheap cider was because they panicked and over clocked the machine, before hand, it was fine.

 

I fail to see how that justifies their actions of trying to run the Apples off of their farm for profit. Also, if you're going to throw the "it ended up being beneficial in the end" thing at me, then why are you refusing to acknowledge Trixie's apology to Twilight at the end of Magic Duel? I'd like to think that was beneficial to both Twilight and Trixie, and it honestly came across like she learned her lesson in the end.

 

 

Trixie wasn't run out of town, she ran herself out 

 

And, pray tell, why did she do that?

 

 

By that logic, if human sacrifice is okay in another culture, we should let it continue

 

I don't see where you got that out of that post.

 

 

Trixie isn't a comedian and most comedians don't physically assault their audience

 

We've already discussed the differences, though - are you going to acknowledge what we've talked about at all? 

Edited July 24, 2014 by ghostfacekiller39

[Silver Letter 1,832]

I remember that, at the end of Magic Duel, she put on a fireworks display during Twilight's performance to help make it more spectacular and did it to where it looked like Twilight was doing it, and then apologized for all the wrong she did. I don't really think that's something Sombra would do

 

 

 

Not jealous of Twilight, but likely to prove to it herself. Meh. Everything you say is making me want to show you my postulate on Trixie's character more and more, because I think it'd allow you to see her character from a different angle 

 

 

 

Well, if you're going to say that, I think a "why" is in order Right now, you're just saying I can't compare them without giving me any reason why

 

 

You're right, and that extends even out of being a magician - but people do it anyway. It's not really fair to fault one person (pony?) for something that so many people do. Lying is wrong and bad.

1) Well, then almost at the end of the episode. When she had her powers, she was evil. Imprisonment, torture and usurping the government are some of her major crimes. I think her apologizing at the end was probably out of character actually.

2) She still wants to be as good as Twilight at magic.

3) Twilight was using magic to help herself. Trixie used it to prove herself as powerful and to gain revenge against the town, Twilight, her friends, Equestria overall...who knows.

4) Yes but in this case, it proves that she is mostly a fraud. She can't invent her own unique routine to gain real fame so she has to make it up.

[A goat 323]

Yes, after all she's done I'd expect a proper punishment. But no, they instantly forgive her at the end of Magic Duel. But I guess it's too late now.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,874]

1) Well, then almost at the end of the episode. When she had her powers, she was evil. Imprisonment, torture and usurping the government are some of her major crimes. I think her apologizing at the end was probably out of character actually.

Wait, out of character?

 

Trixie lives in a Wagon. She has no set home, she just lives in a tiny, cramped, wooden wagon that she was to pull from town to town on her own.

 

 

Even worse is that the wagon also doubles as her perfoming stage, so she's got little to no living area. So she's poor because she to live in a tiny little traveling wagon that she pulls around herself.

 

So she's *not privelaged* at all - she's actually kind of poor if you think about it, and about as close to homeless as you can be without actually being homeless.

 

Then, let's face it - her act is mostly based off of smoke and mirrors and boasts. In terms of magic, she's mediocre at best. Remember the Ursa Minor in "Boast Busters" and how she fought it? She wrapped a piece of rope around two of its fingers. She is not powerful  nor talented at magic, she's average on a good day. 

 

So she is *not privelaged* and *not talented*

 

Finally, she has trouble holding any sort of normal conversation. She can't talk to someone without constantly talking about herself (and I'll get to why later) and that will rub people the wrong way a lot. She is shown to have no friends and bad social skills. Keep in mind that she doesn't stay in one place and is always traveling.

 

So she's *poor* *not talented* and *lonely*

 

She has no reason to be so proud of herself whatsoever, and she's not dumb - she probably knows that. She has no friends and she's not very special or privelaged. So why does she brag?

 

Maybe that's why she brags - she wants to look cool to make friends. Maybe people would believe her and she'd make a few friends, because they'd think she was "cool" for all the stuff she says about herself.

 

Also, she doesn't have any reason to be confident, as stated earlier, so what if it's also a way to improve her self-confidence? While it IS unnecessary, mean, and over the top, and just because she's confused doesn't excuse her for the wrong she's done, I think that there's so much more to her than just a big ego. Maybe it's because she has nothing else, and that's her only way of being something, and as things get worse, she gets worse with them.

 

That's why I like Trixie's ego - you can tell it goes so much deeper than just "I'm great and powerful!" - it's so over the top, you can tell it's a facade to mask who she tuly is, and that's a pony that's very insecure with herself. As far as I'm concerned, her apology at the end was one of her most in-character moments on the show.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ghostfacekiller39

[ideaguy1998 15]

The Ursa destroyed it, the town had nothing to do with it

 

 

So Trixie's talent is being a pompous bufoon? No, she really needed her ego broken

 

 

Why would Luna take time out of her night/day to visit an arrogant weakling?

 

 

Oh lord, Trixie is so oppressed yet she has enough bits to buy the Alicorn Amulet

 

 

Physically hurting an audience member is a jerky move, not to mention lying about her feats. It'd be like someone claiming that they could kill a lion because they have a machette and making everyone believe it

 

 

She had a torture spell ready, that's hardly pathetic

 

And being a prick tends to make people hate you. All of it is her fault for being such an arrogant fool

But on the other hand, everypony excessively harassing her didn't kind of made them hypocrites.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, her apology at the end was one of her most in-character moments on the show.

That actually sounds correct after reading your explanation behind her situation. I can see how she hides her true self. But I still think her actions were evil in "Magic Duel".

[pony.colin 156]

Huh, 4 pages on this thread, that's .... interesting.

 

To OP:

 

Meh, Equestria is Liberal Paradise.  And the townsponies of Ponyville seem to have selective memory, the attention span of goldfish, and general stupidity when the plot calls for it.  

 

So Trixie enslaved Ponyville and created a small dictatorship for what, half a day? Meh, not that bad.  Ponyville has gone through worst.  Just look at all the property damage that was incurred when the parasprites came to town and ate everything, from the fruit, to the buildings, even the kitchen sink.  Or when Spike was on his "growth spurt" phase and took a stroll through town possibly stepping on numerous tiny ponies under his feet and also destroying the town yet again.  And certain grey pegasus accidentally caused a bit of damage to Town hall (that was kind of minor though).  Or the time Discord took control for a day and turned the town into an "artwork of chaos" or the time the Ursa Minor came (and also partially destroyed the town), or when that Dragon's smoke coming from his nose could have potentially suffocated the town. 

 

Eh, sure she got off pretty scot-free but like I said, townsponies have the attention span of goldfish and when the dictatorship ended, they all forgot who enslaved them and moved on (bedazzled by Twilight).

 

Meh, maybe a bit of community service as punishment, but if the townsponies don't care and if no property damage was incurred this time and the ponies still keep paying their taxes then meh, guess she can get off scot-free.  At least she said sorry this time, seems we got a heel face turn out of it.  

 

Also, complaining about townsponies running her out of town. Yeah, that only had to happen if we wanted her to have a reason to come back.  Seriously, why did Trixie have to come back? I saw no real point to have her return other than fan service. I don't understand the attraction to such a narcissist (actually, she's not the worst narcissistic character, more of a minor).  If she's going to come back for whatever reason, we have to give her some legitmate reason, and that reason was to mainly get revenge on Twilight for her perceived humiliation.  

Edited July 25, 2014 by pony.colin

[ideaguy1998 15]

The Ursa destroyed it, the town had nothing to do with it

 

 

So Trixie's talent is being a pompous bufoon? No, she really needed her ego broken

 

 

Why would Luna take time out of her night/day to visit an arrogant weakling?

 

 

Oh lord, Trixie is so oppressed yet she has enough bits to buy the Alicorn Amulet

 

 

Physically hurting an audience member is a jerky move, not to mention lying about her feats. It'd be like someone claiming that they could kill a lion because they have a machette and making everyone believe it

 

 

She had a torture spell ready, that's hardly pathetic

 

And being a prick tends to make people hate you. All of it is her fault for being such an arrogant fool

So you think that the fake apology party serves Trixie right?  Okay then, here's what happens next:

Snips and Snails then dash off to save Trixie.  But Snips and Snails keep on messing up, slowing them down.  At dragon territory, Trixie wakes up and asks if anypony's there.  All the teenage dragons from "Dragon Quest" tell her to shut up because no one wants anything to do with her.  Trixie tells them to get her back to Equestria if they don't want her around.  But the teenage dragons' response?  They charge at her.  But we finally get an awesome fight in which Trixie manages to win through pure skill even if her horn gets broken in the process.  Snips and Snails finally find Trixie and guide her back to Equestria.  They tell everypony of the fight.  But Trixie is a laughingstock once again, and this time, for losing her horn.  Enraged, Trixie calls everypony out for treating her like crap.  But even the Mane Six view her as an ass for doing this, leading to this:

Twilight: Trixie, do you know what you're doing?  You're judging ponies, which is something only Princess Celestia can do!

Trixie:  You too, Twilight!  Argh!  CAN'T TRIXIE EVER GET A F***ING BREAK!

*Princess Celestia walk in.*

Trixie:  Oh Princess Celestia!  Thank goodness you're here!  Everypony around Trixie can't make any sense and-

Twilight:  Trixie was judging everypony!  She needs to learn that only you can do that.

Celestia: Oh don't worry Twilight, I know just what to do.

So Trixie gets sent to Magic Kindergarten and gets laughed at by the idiot foals.

Would you say that this, combined with the fake apology party would serve Trixie right?

[Fractured 2,684]

So you think that the fake apology party serves Trixie right?  Okay then, here's what happens next:

Snips and Snails then dash off to save Trixie.  But Snips and Snails keep on messing up, slowing them down.  At dragon territory, Trixie wakes up and asks if anypony's there.  All the teenage dragons from "Dragon Quest" tell her to shut up because no one wants anything to do with her.  Trixie tells them to get her back to Equestria if they don't want her around.  But the teenage dragons' response?  They charge at her.  But we finally get an awesome fight in which Trixie manages to win through pure skill even if her horn gets broken in the process.  Snips and Snails finally find Trixie and guide her back to Equestria.  They tell everypony of the fight.  But Trixie is a laughingstock once again, and this time, for losing her horn.  Enraged, Trixie calls everypony out for treating her like crap.  But even the Mane Six view her as an ass for doing this, leading to this:

Twilight: Trixie, do you know what you're doing?  You're judging ponies, which is something only Princess Celestia can do!

Trixie:  You too, Twilight!  Argh!  CAN'T TRIXIE EVER GET A F***ING BREAK!

*Princess Celestia walk in.*

Trixie:  Oh Princess Celestia!  Thank goodness you're here!  Everypony around Trixie can't make any sense and-

Twilight:  Trixie was judging everypony!  She needs to learn that only you can do that.

Celestia: Oh don't worry Twilight, I know just what to do.

So Trixie gets sent to Magic Kindergarten and gets laughed at by the idiot foals.

Would you say that this, combined with the fake apology party would serve Trixie right?

Breaking your horn for unicorns, is essentially cutting off their arms. This is...terrible.

[Hive King 2,001]

Breaking your horn for unicorns, is essentially cutting off their arms. This is...terrible.

Not really. Other ponies manage without magic just fine. It's more like losing a third arm, assuming you have three. Not to mention that the horn isn't THAT painful since Celestia's horn was barbecued yet she didn't seem to be in agony, just koed

[Fractured 2,684]

Not really. Other ponies manage without magic just fine. It's more like losing a third arm, assuming you have three. Not to mention that the horn isn't THAT painful since Celestia's horn was barbecued yet she didn't seem to be in agony, just koed

It's more like a pegasus losing their wings; sure, they can get on with their lives, but it's still a tragic or deal. Not to mention the above paragraph is brutal, with a relatively childish ending; this sounds more like your stereotypical DT fanfiction.

[Hive King 2,001]

It's more like a pegasus losing their wings; sure, they can get on with their lives, but it's still a tragic or deal. Not to mention the above paragraph is brutal, with a relatively childish ending; this sounds more like your stereotypical DT fanfiction.

It's not like the unicorn is losing an axis of movement

[ideaguy1998 15]

She lost everything because of her own pride. Trixie was pathetic and was probably so weak, Tirek didn't even bother draining her magic

The fuck?  What is up with the whole "Trixie is weak" bullcrap?  Hasn't anyone considered Trixie is what Scootaloo could have been if that heartwarming moment from "Flight to the Finnish" never happened?

She lost everything because of her own pride. Trixie was pathetic and was probably so weak, Tirek didn't even bother draining her magic

And Trixie is at least capable of simple telekinesis, like a lot of other unicorns.

[Hive King 2,001]

The fuck?  What is up with the whole "Trixie is weak" bullcrap?  Hasn't anyone considered Trixie is what Scootaloo could have been if that heartwarming moment from "Flight to the Finnish" never happened?

Scootaloo is crippled, Trixie is perfectly healthy. Scootaloo doesn't try to make herself look like the best flyer ever, Trixie claims she's the strongest ever

 

It's true, Trixie is weak and is nothing but smoke and mirrors

 

 

And Trixie is at least capable of simple telekinesis, like a lot of other unicorns.

Congratulations, even Sweetie Belle can do that 

[ideaguy1998 15]

Scootaloo is crippled, Trixie is perfectly healthy. Scootaloo doesn't try to make herself look like the best flyer ever, Trixie claims she's the strongest ever

 

It's true, Trixie is weak and is nothing but smoke and mirrors

 

 

Congratulations, even Sweetie Belle can do that 

What I mean is THAT MAYBE SOME BULLYING INCIDENT TURNED TRIXIE INSECURE!

[Hive King 2,001]

What I mean is THAT MAYBE SOME BULLYING INCIDENT TURNED TRIXIE INSECURE!

Maybes mean very little. Maybe Twilight is a space worm disguised as a pony. It has about as much basis

[ideaguy1998 15]

Maybes mean very little. Maybe Twilight is a space worm disguised as a pony. It has about as much basis

I guess that you wouldn't be above telling Trixie her life is totally meaningless and deserves to live in dragon territory were she'd get nothing but abuse!