Is Rainbow Dash REALLY the fastest character in Equestria?

[Nuke87654 1,849]

I think that everypony is forgetting the most obvious candidates to be faster than Rainbow Dash... Princess Cadence, Celestia, and Luna.

 

There isn't much evidence to say that they are, I'll grant you that, but it's made clear that Twilight, when she had all the alicorn magic, was exponentially faster than Rainbow when she was trying for a normal travel speed.

 

So, we it would stand to reason that Cadence (who was originally a pegasi) would be able to fly about 20% (Celestia and Luna taking up about 75% of that being the magic that makes up the 4) of that as cruising speed, so if she were able to fly as fast, or faster, than Rainbow Dash.

 

Unfortunately, we won't be able to see that, because of their ability to control their powers for the populace so they don't cause massive collateral damage and death tolls.

 

WARNING, PHYSICS HEADCANON AHEAD, MIXED WITH REAL PHYSICS

 

That said, Pinkie, with her ability to effectively teleport, as seen in Maud Pie (When she evaporates herself), she is clearly moving far beyond the speed of light, again, as shown by her ability to move unseen in all directions, but is moving so fast that the universe can't run a collision check (Think how you can clip through walls in games) on her, allowing for teleportation through 'solid' mater.

 

This is canon that she's much faster than Rainbow, as she can move faster than light, as seen in Griffon the Brushoff, Party of One, and Maud Pie.

 

Just to make note, teleportation is not considered a measure of speed as it's wholly dependent upon the person's reaction time (thus it can defeat the whole movement speed at FTL) and teleportation is considered to be a sub form of spatial manipulation, not actual speed.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Nuke87654

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

I believe it's activated at a certain speed, but not necessarily her top speed. The fact that she can do it against gravity means she can't be going her fastest anyway. It would make more sense this way; no doubt she was going her fastest in Equestria games, as well as in Flight to the Finish, Mysterious Mare Do Well,etc. Even running from Pinkie Pie, she didn't waste Ponyville or the Apple Orchards; if it was something she couldn't control, she'd probably have killed somebody by now.

That's precisely what I do doubt. She isn't going at supersonic speeds in any of those cases, which is why a sonic rainboom doesn't happen. In-universe, it's somewhat hard to justify why she chose not to go fast enough to generate one in each case, but from a writer's perspective, the sonic rainboom is supposed to be a rare and exciting event. If she did it too frequently, it would become boring and predictable. 

 

And yes, it's activated at a certain speed, but she can go faster still after that point.

 

As for controlling it, she controls it by not going fast enough to break the sound barrier. She controls her speed, not the ability to "activate" the sonic rainboom via magic, an ability I don't think even exists. Pinkie is the only one who has defined the sonic rainboom, and she only speaks of it in terms of speed, not magic in any form.

[Fractured 2,683]

That's precisely what I do doubt. She isn't going at supersonic speeds in any of those cases, which is why a sonic rainboom doesn't happen. In-universe, it's somewhat hard to justify why she chose not to go fast enough to generate one in each case, but from a writer's perspective, the sonic rainboom is supposed to be a rare and exciting event. If she did it too frequently, it would become boring and predictable. 

 

And yes, it's activated at a certain speed, but she can go faster still after that point.

 

As for controlling it, she controls it by not going fast enough to break the sound barrier. She controls her speed, not the ability to "activate" the sonic rainboom via magic, an ability I don't think even exists. Pinkie is the only one who has defined the sonic rainboom, and she only speaks of it in terms of speed, not magic in any form.

The sonic Rainboom doesn't involve breaking the sound barrier, because Rainbow Dash is already casually way above the speed of sound. It's a magical effect, similar to the first Wonderbolts performance during the Lunar Rebellion.

[Venomous 18,814]

I don't think that she is the fastest in all of Equestria. She may be the fastest pegasus in Ponyville, but I doubt she is THE fastest EVER.

 

SpitFire, FleetFoot, Soarin, and the other WonderBolts seem to be evenly, if not better, than RainbowDash.

 

I sure that there is some pegasus in Equestria who trains harder than RainbowDash and is much faster.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

The sonic Rainboom doesn't involve breaking the sound barrier, because Rainbow Dash is already casually way above the speed of sound. It's a magical effect, similar to the first Wonderbolts performance during the Lunar Rebellion.

All Twilight mentions there is "magical lightning", which is in no way, shape or form a "sonic boom and rainbow". And that was due to "high energy", not "speed", which is not necessarily the same thing. If Twilight had said "they flew so fast that magical lightning rained down on the crowd", that might be more powerful evidence, but it still wouldn't connect the first Wonderbolt performance to RD's Sonic Rainboom.

 

Looks nothing like the sonic rainboom.

 

The sonic Rainboom doesn't involve breaking the sound barrier,

Yes, it does:

 

According to Pinkie, it's definitely a matter of speed: "When a pegasus pony like Rainbow Dash gets going so fast... BOOM! A sonic boom and rainbow can happen all at once!" A sonic boom itself is based on speed. Twilight was also present, and didn't object to Pinkie's definition.

 

 

Listen to the way Pinkie describes it in Sonic Rainboom: "When a pegasus pony like Rainbow Dash gets going so fast... BOOM! A sonic boom and rainbow can happen all at once!" A sonic boom, by definition, occurs when something travels faster than the speed of sound. Fudging of physics via cartoon physics aside, it's seems intended to be the equivalent of a real life sonic boom, so yes, it IS breaking the sound barrier. I'm all for headcanon, but one can't use it to change the meaning of words to one's own liking.

 

 

 

Rainbow does break the sound barrier when she does the rainboom as evidenced by the mach cone (though how she shatters the light spectum is a total mystery). However given that pegesi flight is magic based, the ability for a pegesi to do the sonic rainboom might be more than just speed.

 

While Shire Pony agrees with you about the possibility of some sort of magical component to the SR (I don't, except as far as all pegasus is magic of a sort), he also doesn't doubt that it involves breaking the sound barrier.

 

I've dealt with the "sonic rainboom is not supersonic" argument three times now. It doesn't hold water, and so simply repeating it is not going to change my mind. 

 

... because Rainbow Dash is already casually way above the speed of sound. 

 Your evidence for that?

[Oblivion 20,266]

As far as canon goes she is the overall "fastest" pony around that we know of, however rather she is the most agile pegasus in the sky is sort of what the real question is. Sure she can travel at a much higher velocity than any other winged pony but one sort of has to wonder how would she stack up against somepony such as Spitfire in an agility competition alone. I sort of doubt that Dash could stay agile while at Sonic Rainboom speeds.

[Fractured 2,683]

Your evidence for that?

Dodging lightning multiple times at point blank range with nothing more than a pissed off expression on her face?

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

Dodging lightning multiple times at point blank range with nothing more than a pissed off expression on her face?

If she can move / react fast enough to avoid lightning, how could AJ possibly have lassoed her, ever? Is the speed of AJ's lasso also faster than lightning?

 

For extra bullshitting points (on my side, of course): she isn't dodging the lightning per se. Instead, she reacts to the build-up of charge, so she can detect the lightning just before it strikes, enough to shift her position to avoid it, even at subsonic speeds.

 

Most of it.

 

Like Jack Rakan:

 

Besides, even if we accept that lightning moves at the same speed in Equestria as in real life, that means her top speed is 224,000 mph or 3,700 miles per second, making her without a doubt the fastest pony in Equestria, anyway.

[Malinter 3,064]

 

Another possibility (which is bit of a fudge, I admit) is that lightning simply isn't as fast in Equestria.

 

Besides, even if we accept that lightning moves at the same speed in Equestria as in real life, that means her top speed is 224,000 mph or 3,700 miles per second, making her without a doubt the fastest pony in Equestria, anyway.

Sorta like the diskworld books. The speed of light on the diskworld is lower than regular lightspeed because it is lazy.

 

Rainbow Dash is certainly one of the best fliers in Equestria and the fastest when activating the Sonic Rainboom, but that isn't to say theirs not a griffion or dragon out their that has the right combination of body size/wing ratio to fly faster than she does.

 

The Sonic Rainboom is about speed to a point. For Pegesi it seems whatever magic that lets them fly will only break the sound barrier when certain conditions are met.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

 

Sorta like the diskworld books. The speed of light on the diskworld is lower than regular lightspeed because it is lazy.

 

I actually removed that part from my earlier post. After all, I was the one who said we can't make up new meanings to words and call it headcanon to suit ourselves, so we have to assume lightning in the show is the same as lightning in real life.

 

A better argument would be to say that Dash dodging lightning is just an example of Fridge Logic, something the writers put in that is cool, but doesn't really make much sense.

 

 

The Sonic Rainboom is about speed to a point. For Pegesi it seems whatever magic that lets them fly will only break the sound barrier when certain conditions are met.

 

That condition being "they are going fast enough"?

[The Crimson Cross 7,532]

I'd like to know how fast The Alicorn Princesses are... 

And as for Discord, we all know he could beat Rainbow Dash in a race.... And assuming he has the power of teleportation, he could certainly win after all... 

[Ryzu 984]

What about twilight with all the alicorn power inside her?

[Fractured 2,683]

If she can move / react fast enough to avoid lightning, how could AJ possibly have lassoed her, ever? Is the speed of AJ's lasso also faster than lightning?

 

For extra bullshitting points (on my side, of course): she isn't dodging the lightning per se. Instead, she reacts to the build-up of charge, so she can detect the lightning just before it strikes, enough to shift her position to avoid it, even at subsonic speeds.

 

bscap0259.jpg

bscap0258.jpg

Most of it.

 

Like Jack Rakan:

Mahou Sensei Negima Chapter 244 Page 03.jpg

 

Besides, even if we accept that lightning moves at the same speed in Equestria as in real life, that means her top speed is 224,000 mph or 3,700 miles per second, making her without a doubt the fastest pony in Equestria, anyway.

(224,000 mph is a minimum, by the way)

 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x17lv4i_mlp-fim-s4-e1-e2-princess-twilight-sparkle-hd-no-watermarks_shortfilms

Dodges lightning bolts from every direction and never gets hit once ~11:00. In both instances, she sees and then dodges the lightning coming, so i'm calling hokey on the whole "sensing the charge" thing. There's also Rainbow Dash outunning a lightning bolt (comics), if you're interested. And uh...she's not the fastest, the alicorns(/draconequs/Changelling Queen/Nightmare entities) are.

[Luriel Maelstrom 253]

You believe everything you see on screen dont you? -_-
If she made a sonic rainboom that doesn't mean that oh lets say Spitfire, Lightning Dust, Fleetfoot and Soarin can't do it, you know, the show doesn't have to show EVERYTHING who knows what will happen? It's most likely she's the fastest but hey we haven't seen much of lets say Soarin, most of what we've seen they were flying in a medium speed during their flights shows I mean maybe Spitfire could do a flame boom or something like that. Is Rainbow Dash fast? Yes. Is she THE FASTEST? Probably not, besides, you can compare Lightning Dust and Rainbow Dash their speed is equal.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

(224,000 mph is a minimum, by the way)

 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x17lv4i_mlp-fim-s4-e1-e2-princess-twilight-sparkle-hd-no-watermarks_shortfilms

Dodges lightning bolts from every direction and never gets hit once ~11:00. In both instances, she sees and then dodges the lightning coming, so i'm calling hokey on the whole "sensing the charge" thing. There's also Rainbow Dash outunning a lightning bolt (comics), if you're interested. And uh...she's not the fastest, the alicorns(/draconequs/Changelling Queen/Nightmare entities) are.

Oh, I watched that scene too. Actually, it does more to confirm the "sensing the charge" than otherwise. You'll notice that she never once looks in the direction of the lightning bolt she subsequently dodges:

 

 

 

 

Lightning hasn't even struck yet, but she's dodging it. For three whole frames before the lightning ever appears.

Now the lightning strikes. She's already moved out of it's path.

 

Her eyes are looking at the bottom left of the screen. She moves up and towards the right.

The lightning bolt strikes from the top left.

So she didn't see it, but she moved before it struck, exactly as if she were sensing it ahead of time.

 

The next two bolts strike while she is still moving away from the strike above, so she doesn't have to dodge them, she's already out of the way before they arrive.

 

 

 

 

 

Next she flies up, again before any lightning is striking... for six frames, 

 

 

 

 

 

And the lightning passes below her. Heck, her eyes are closed!

 

Here, she's looking in the complete opposite direction to where the lightning is coming from. She certainly didn't see it.

 

You can't get any clearer than that. She did not watch and respond to a single lightning strike after it had already begun. She frequently moved out of the path the lightning was just about to take. I rest my case.

[Malinter 3,064]

That condition being "they are going fast enough"?

 

 

Well Dash was going full speed a dozen times in her practice and never once broke the sound barrier, the same barrier as a filly she broke though with ease.

 

There are a few instances of Ponies going beyond their normal speed in extreme stress. Rarity falling to her death bing the case for RD. 

 

Fluttershy is also a fast flier (and this is praise from RD here) but she can only do it if an animal is in imminent danger.

 

Even Earth Ponies experience this as Maud's 0-100 hoofs to that rock is anything to go by.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

What about twilight with all the alicorn power inside her?

Twilight was faster at the time, true, but that was a once-off, temporary situation. RD's speed is something intrinsic to her, so I'm not sure it's entirely fair to compare them in that way. 

[Fractured 2,683]

I rest my case.

A case that relies on a very specific body process that's never been mentioned or hinted at anywhere in the show? Sounds like a headcanon to me.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

Well Dash was going full speed a dozen times in her practice and never once broke the sound barrier, the same barrier as a filly she broke though with ease.

 

There are a few instances of Ponies going beyond their normal speed in extreme stress. Rarity falling to her death bing the case for RD. 

 

Fluttershy is also a fast flier (and this is praise from RD here) but she can only do it if an animal is in imminent danger.

 

Even Earth Ponies experience this as Maud's 0-100 hoofs to that rock is anything to go by.

I wouldn't exactly say "with ease".

 

As for "going full speed"... nah.

Training:

Qualifying for Equestria Games:

Flying in the Equestria Games

Sonic Rainbooming:

 

Note the flapping cheeks, the tears in her eyes, the shockwave appearing in front of her hooves... none of which is shown in any other instance where you claim she's flying at her top speed. There's plenty to show that when she is going fast enough to attempt the sonic rainboom, she's moving faster than when she isn't, even in situations where you would think she should be going as fast as she can. What part of the "pegasus magic" explanation can account for that? It's a consequence of greater speed when attempting / managing a sonic rainboom, there's nothing else it can be.

 

If that can't convince you, then nothing will.

[Malinter 3,064]

Twilight was faster at the time, true, but that was a once-off, temporary situation. RD's speed is something intrinsic to her, so I'm not sure it's entirely fair to compare them in that way. 

 

Twilight could fly faster, but she can't control it. yet. Twilight lacks RD's years of experience and to be fair, might not quite match natural talent for it.

I wouldn't exactly say "with ease".

 

 

show the picture of filly dash doing it. She's grinning her face off. XD

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

A case that relies on a very specific body process that's never been mentioned or hinted at anywhere in the show? Sounds like a headcanon to me.

Perhaps, but it's certainly been hinted at much more than your contention that she is seeing lightning coming and dodging it, which I tried to show was contradicted by the very scene that you brought up as supporting it.

 

You also seem to forget the three times I've shown that "sonic rainboom" is a supersonic event triggered by RDs speed, which WAS mentioned by Pinkie. What hasn't been mentioned (although it has been hinted at) is that pegasus flight is powered by magic, which I agree with, but still don't see how that means that the sonic rainboom itself is specifically magical in nature.

 

Besides, I don't have a problem with headcanon, as long as it isn't contradicted by the show and doesn't rely on redefining terms to suit the purpose. I've caught myself doing that, and corrected it.

 

show the picture of filly dash doing it. She's grinning her face off. XD

You show the picture, man, I've been providing so many pictures my screenshot button is threatening to go on strike.

[Fractured 2,683]

Perhaps, but it's certainly been hinted at much more than your contention that she is seeing lightning coming and dodging it, which I tried to show was contradicted by the very scene that you brought up as supporting it.

 

You also seem to forget the three times I've shown that "sonic rainboom" is a supersonic event triggered by RDs speed, which WAS mentioned by Pinkie. What hasn't been mentioned (although it has been hinted at) is that pegasus flight is powered by magic, which I agree with, but still don't see how that means that the sonic rainboom itself is specifically magical in nature.

 

Besides, I don't have a problem with headcanon, as long as it isn't contradicted by the show and doesn't rely on redefining terms to suit the purpose. I've caught myself doing that, and corrected it.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwr2rv_mlp-fim-s2-e25-e26-a-canterlot-wedding-hd-no-watermarks_shortfilms ~39:00. A Sonic Rainboom against gravity. There doesn't seem to be a mach cone either. Also...

 

You can clearly see her gasp before the lightning bolt hits. For what it's worth, Derpy didn't seem to sense the charge at all. Edited August 8, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwr2rv_mlp-fim-s2-e25-e26-a-canterlot-wedding-hd-no-watermarks_shortfilms ~39:00. A Sonic Rainboom against gravity. There doesn't seem to be a mach cone either. Also...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg8jDPK10AU

You can clearly see her gasp before the lightning bolt hits. For what it's worth, Derpy didn't seem to sense the charge at all.

Well, that's certainly a bit more solid evidence than you were offering before.

 

Dealing with A Canterlot Wedding, first.

There is a mach cone.

 

A point in your favor, perhaps, is that the mach cone doesn't seem to appear until after she's already achieved the SR, but look at her acceleration between the frames (based on the cloud, since the camera is moving up, and it's the best fixed point to use as a reference.)

 

 

 

 

She reached the required speed against gravity very quickly, much more quickly than the other times. She had been prepping the entire episode for it, after all. RD: "Sorry, Twi, been too busy prepping for my sonic rainboom to pay much attention to the bride's bad attitude," around the 15 minute mark. That should suffice to prove that this situation was different to the others, which could account for the lack of mach cone before the actual SR, and for the "against gravity".

 

Now for The Last Round-up:

She's looking in the direction the bolt comes from, one point to you. The bolt isn't in the frame when she reacts, though, so there's nothing to say she's seeing the bolt rather than realizing that she's feeling a charge build-up, and gasping in response to that.

 

Once she's out of the way, she seems to be looking at the bolt, which could mean she was looking at it the whole time, but maybe not. She could just be looking at the path she knew it would take by sensing the charge.

Then she seems to looking after it, but I think she's looking at her singed tail.

 

You'll notice that she also doesn't quite avoid all of it, which I ascribe to the fact that she was distracted from lifting and hammering the nail in. A different situation from Princess Twilight Sparkle where she was focusing on the clouds in front of her, and as always, the devil is in the details. As my earlier post with Jack Rakan mentions, it might require some bit of concentration, so a distraction could account for the discrepancy.

 

As for your point about Derpy not feeling the buildup... it's Derpy. First of all, I never said all pegasuses could sense charge build-up, just like not every pegasus can use the Stare or all earth ponies can have a Pinkie / Cheese Sandwich sense. Secondly, even if Derpy could feel the buildup, that wouldn't necessarily stop her. Thirdly, she was also distracted from jumping up and down on the cloud.

 

I still see no real contradiction of the "sensing the charge" idea.

[neznamkaksa 78]

Guys,Dash is the fastes pony,her max speed is 3,600 miles per second (or mph im not tottaly aure) and when she does Sonic Rainboom her speed doubles instantly (7,200 mph).Also she can compete with Sonic.Yeah she is fast.

Edited August 8, 2014 by neznamkaksa

[Fractured 2,683]

 

Besides, I don't have a problem with headcanon, as long as it isn't contradicted by the show and doesn't rely on redefining terms to suit the purpose. I've caught myself doing that, and corrected it.

This is Occam's razor in motion. I could suggest Twilight can survive an anvil falling on her skull because we see her live through it, or you could suggest that she can survive because the gravity is lighter in Equestria. One is simple, and is a suitable solution to the circumstance, while the other might be correct as well, but is full of assumptions and needlessly complicated. The first answer is conclusively better.

 

 

You'll notice that she also doesn't quite avoid all of it, which I ascribe to the fact that she was distracted from lifting and hammering the nail in. A different situation from Princess Twilight Sparkle where she was focusing on the clouds in front of her, and as always, the devil is in the details. As my earlier post with Jack Rakan mentions, it might require some bit of concentration, so a distraction could account for the discrepancy.

 

As for your point about Derpy not feeling the buildup... it's Derpy. First of all, I never said all pegasuses could sense charge build-up, just like not every pegasus can use the Stare or all earth ponies can have a Pinkie / Cheese Sandwich sense. Secondly, even if Derpy could feel the buildup, that wouldn't necessarily stop her. Thirdly, she was also distracted from jumping up and down on the cloud.

 

I still see no real contradiction of the "sensing the charge" idea.

Same rules apply here. I can say Rainbow Dash can dodge lightning because she saw it coming and moved out of the way, which is simple and works in the present circumstance. Or I can say that she sense the electric charge, which would require a ridiculous amount of assumptions, like understanding the pony immune system and pegasus biology, or figuring whether or not Rainbow Dash in particular can sense an electrical charge. It's something that would take a writers statement and dozens of showings to prove, and you're trying to do it with only two circumstances. Given what we have, the first idea is the better one. I'm not saying your idea is wrong; it may, in fact, turn out to be the truth. I'm saying that currently, you don't have enough information to be right.